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	<title>Comments on: Estafa &#8212; Are You Aquainted?</title>
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	<description>The Web Magazine for Expats in the Philippines and those who want to be</description>
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		<title>By: Juliet Tan</title>
		<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2008/11/estafa-are-you-aquainted/comment-page-/#comment-32053</link>
		<dc:creator>Juliet Tan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/?p=5189#comment-32053</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Dave, for the clarification on the story of this foreigner in jail.  I still have pending estafa complaints against some parties and I had hoped that imprisonment for the offending parties was as easy as you had written. :-)

I guess he is in jail for overstaying and being an undesirable alien, for having committed &quot;immoral acts&quot;. His fathering a child or cohabiting with a married woman, are not in the list of acts considered as estafa, which is essentially the crime of swindling, which can be found in Article 315 of the Revised Penal Code.

Your article has generated a lot of interest,as I can see from the comments you got, so I just shared my experiences in estafa cases.
for people who are reading up on estafa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Dave, for the clarification on the story of this foreigner in jail.  I still have pending estafa complaints against some parties and I had hoped that imprisonment for the offending parties was as easy as you had written. <img src='http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I guess he is in jail for overstaying and being an undesirable alien, for having committed &#8220;immoral acts&#8221;. His fathering a child or cohabiting with a married woman, are not in the list of acts considered as estafa, which is essentially the crime of swindling, which can be found in Article 315 of the Revised Penal Code.</p>
<p>Your article has generated a lot of interest,as I can see from the comments you got, so I just shared my experiences in estafa cases.<br />
for people who are reading up on estafa.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Starr</title>
		<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2008/11/estafa-are-you-aquainted/comment-page-1/#comment-32052</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Starr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 05:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/?p=5189#comment-32052</guid>
		<description>Hi Juliet,
Thanks so much for reading and for your valuable comment.  You&#039;ve essentially writen awhole new article here and it will take me alot of words to answer ...so here&#039;s my goal and making it short (which I seldom succeeed at ;-)

First regarding the whole case on the foreigner in jail ... he&#039;s a German national, BTW and few months ago he was still in jail, don&#039;t have time or inclination to find out more right now.  What you say abut the filing iof charges and counter clams/affidavits etc. is indeed true so far as I know the law.  Please remember I boldly slugges the article with a disclaimer ... I am not a lawyer.

The gentleman (to use the term very loosely), came to the Philippines to cohabit with another man&#039;s wife.  Perhaps he culd not be arrested for that.  He then fathered a child with that woman and publicly paraded his deeds to the world ... to the legal husband&#039;s distress and embarrassment.  Perhaps he would not get arrested for that ... although in my part of the country he would likely be more concerned about being &#039;salvaged&#039;), but again he didn&#039;t.

He also ignored the Immigration authorities and overstayed his visa, something else he _probably_ wouldn&#039;t get picked up off the street for ... although he could have, because Immigration law has some different rules than civil law, or so I believe.

He also may or may not have ignored summons.  Something which certainly can result in arrest after some time.

So how did he actually get in jail? He did something he must have thought was ok somewhere ... certainly not in Germany, I lived there and people didn&#039;t act this bastos ... but many foreigners seem to operate on the premise that there are no morals or decency in the Philippines... he took the woman to a public beach, parked his car in a crowded public parking lot with people passing, and proceeded to get naked with her in the back seat and engage in public (semi-public) sex.  Someone, I know not who, called this to the attention of the local police and the man was arrested ... red handed so to speak.

(by the way, a Filipino executive and his lawful wife were arrested for a similar ofence in QC a month or so back, this isn&#039;t some anti-foreigner scam, it&#039;s illegal for Filipinos to engage in public lewdness as well, just FYI)

During the &#039;sorting out&#039; of htis affair both the estafa charges and the immigration irregularities came to light.  At the time my original source article was written he was being held in immigration jail ... from which there is normally no bail ... he was suing the Director of the BI over is, what heand his lawyer claimed as illegal imprisonment.

So was he clapped in jail directly for the alleged estafa of cuckolding the husband?  No, to be technical.

Did he remain in jail, _without possibility of bail_ for months over what began with estafa ... what many today consider a moral issue rather than a leagl one?  I would say &#039;yes&#039;.

Absent aby other issues, people overstaying tourist visas very seldom see a jail, they get to pay a fine and perhaps get blacklisted and forced to leave ... but I would certainly suggest this fellow&#039;s predicament was certainly contributed in large part by his original acts of estafa.

Anyway, an interesting legal system here, not always good, not always bad, but the main point to my fellow foreigners is, &quot;You aren&#039;t in Kansas any more&quot;, things that are not a crime back home may very well be a crime here.

And remeber, I am not a lawyer ... please don&#039;t write me querstions about what you can and can&#039;t file against a person, what the law can and can&#039;t do ... I don&#039;t know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Juliet,<br />
Thanks so much for reading and for your valuable comment.  You&#8217;ve essentially writen awhole new article here and it will take me alot of words to answer &#8230;so here&#8217;s my goal and making it short (which I seldom succeeed at <img src='http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>First regarding the whole case on the foreigner in jail &#8230; he&#8217;s a German national, BTW and few months ago he was still in jail, don&#8217;t have time or inclination to find out more right now.  What you say abut the filing iof charges and counter clams/affidavits etc. is indeed true so far as I know the law.  Please remember I boldly slugges the article with a disclaimer &#8230; I am not a lawyer.</p>
<p>The gentleman (to use the term very loosely), came to the Philippines to cohabit with another man&#8217;s wife.  Perhaps he culd not be arrested for that.  He then fathered a child with that woman and publicly paraded his deeds to the world &#8230; to the legal husband&#8217;s distress and embarrassment.  Perhaps he would not get arrested for that &#8230; although in my part of the country he would likely be more concerned about being &#8217;salvaged&#8217;), but again he didn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>He also ignored the Immigration authorities and overstayed his visa, something else he _probably_ wouldn&#8217;t get picked up off the street for &#8230; although he could have, because Immigration law has some different rules than civil law, or so I believe.</p>
<p>He also may or may not have ignored summons.  Something which certainly can result in arrest after some time.</p>
<p>So how did he actually get in jail? He did something he must have thought was ok somewhere &#8230; certainly not in Germany, I lived there and people didn&#8217;t act this bastos &#8230; but many foreigners seem to operate on the premise that there are no morals or decency in the Philippines&#8230; he took the woman to a public beach, parked his car in a crowded public parking lot with people passing, and proceeded to get naked with her in the back seat and engage in public (semi-public) sex.  Someone, I know not who, called this to the attention of the local police and the man was arrested &#8230; red handed so to speak.</p>
<p>(by the way, a Filipino executive and his lawful wife were arrested for a similar ofence in QC a month or so back, this isn&#8217;t some anti-foreigner scam, it&#8217;s illegal for Filipinos to engage in public lewdness as well, just FYI)</p>
<p>During the &#8217;sorting out&#8217; of htis affair both the estafa charges and the immigration irregularities came to light.  At the time my original source article was written he was being held in immigration jail &#8230; from which there is normally no bail &#8230; he was suing the Director of the BI over is, what heand his lawyer claimed as illegal imprisonment.</p>
<p>So was he clapped in jail directly for the alleged estafa of cuckolding the husband?  No, to be technical.</p>
<p>Did he remain in jail, _without possibility of bail_ for months over what began with estafa &#8230; what many today consider a moral issue rather than a leagl one?  I would say &#8216;yes&#8217;.</p>
<p>Absent aby other issues, people overstaying tourist visas very seldom see a jail, they get to pay a fine and perhaps get blacklisted and forced to leave &#8230; but I would certainly suggest this fellow&#8217;s predicament was certainly contributed in large part by his original acts of estafa.</p>
<p>Anyway, an interesting legal system here, not always good, not always bad, but the main point to my fellow foreigners is, &#8220;You aren&#8217;t in Kansas any more&#8221;, things that are not a crime back home may very well be a crime here.</p>
<p>And remeber, I am not a lawyer &#8230; please don&#8217;t write me querstions about what you can and can&#8217;t file against a person, what the law can and can&#8217;t do &#8230; I don&#8217;t know.</p>
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		<title>By: Juliet Tan</title>
		<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2008/11/estafa-are-you-aquainted/comment-page-1/#comment-32051</link>
		<dc:creator>Juliet Tan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 04:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/?p=5189#comment-32051</guid>
		<description>Hi Dave,

This story is scary, and it is true that estafa is a word much used here in the Philippines. I myself filed estafa cases against a company that did not remit payment to us. Because of my lengthy research and consultations with lawyers regarding this scary &quot;estafa&quot; Damocles sword hanging over just anyone, I&#039;d like to comment on your article so that it could clear some things up.

First, I cannot understand why the foreigner who had an affair with a married woman is still in jail. All criminal cases (where one might be jailed) go through preliminary investigation, where the plaintiff (one being accused of committing a crime) is given a chance to file a counter affidavit (his defense). Then there are stages of counter-replies. All in all, this takes a long time, like 2 months. Only overt cases of crime, like robbery or physical attacks, where one is arrested on the spot, are exempt from this stage.

After this prelim investigation stage, the fiscal takes about forever to decide whether there the complaint is indeed criminal in nature (it could be civil in nature like collection of debt). This resolution as it is called, should take 10 days with the investigating fiscal, then forwarded to the head fiscal for approval, which on paper should be another 10 days.

Anyone who has filed an estafa charge will know that this never happens in a month. One estafa case of ours took 3 years for the
UNfavorable resolution to come out, meaning the fiscal found it not to be criminal in nature.

Once the resolution comes out, if it is favorable to the complainant, a warrant of arrest will be issued, and the plaintiff can be picked up. BUT HE CAN POST BAIL. So, he will not stay in jail as the case is elevated to the court.

The preliminary investigation is a privilege given to people so that they would not be wrongfully accused of anything under the sun. This is where you get to present your case, that there was no intention to commit FRAUD, which is the operative word here. Like you wrote,
trust should not violated.

Most likely the foreigner in question ignored the summons, which would speed up the issuance of a resolution, and warrant of arrest.
Even if the complaint is submitted (hence no defense can be filed anymore) lawyers could still file a Motion to Reopen, and then, the plaintiff could file his defense, prolonging the process even more.

In my opinion, there was no fraudulent act when this guy cohabited with the married woman. Maybe the husband works or has friends in the judiciary. A good lawyer is a must in this case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dave,</p>
<p>This story is scary, and it is true that estafa is a word much used here in the Philippines. I myself filed estafa cases against a company that did not remit payment to us. Because of my lengthy research and consultations with lawyers regarding this scary &#8220;estafa&#8221; Damocles sword hanging over just anyone, I&#8217;d like to comment on your article so that it could clear some things up.</p>
<p>First, I cannot understand why the foreigner who had an affair with a married woman is still in jail. All criminal cases (where one might be jailed) go through preliminary investigation, where the plaintiff (one being accused of committing a crime) is given a chance to file a counter affidavit (his defense). Then there are stages of counter-replies. All in all, this takes a long time, like 2 months. Only overt cases of crime, like robbery or physical attacks, where one is arrested on the spot, are exempt from this stage.</p>
<p>After this prelim investigation stage, the fiscal takes about forever to decide whether there the complaint is indeed criminal in nature (it could be civil in nature like collection of debt). This resolution as it is called, should take 10 days with the investigating fiscal, then forwarded to the head fiscal for approval, which on paper should be another 10 days.</p>
<p>Anyone who has filed an estafa charge will know that this never happens in a month. One estafa case of ours took 3 years for the<br />
UNfavorable resolution to come out, meaning the fiscal found it not to be criminal in nature.</p>
<p>Once the resolution comes out, if it is favorable to the complainant, a warrant of arrest will be issued, and the plaintiff can be picked up. BUT HE CAN POST BAIL. So, he will not stay in jail as the case is elevated to the court.</p>
<p>The preliminary investigation is a privilege given to people so that they would not be wrongfully accused of anything under the sun. This is where you get to present your case, that there was no intention to commit FRAUD, which is the operative word here. Like you wrote,<br />
trust should not violated.</p>
<p>Most likely the foreigner in question ignored the summons, which would speed up the issuance of a resolution, and warrant of arrest.<br />
Even if the complaint is submitted (hence no defense can be filed anymore) lawyers could still file a Motion to Reopen, and then, the plaintiff could file his defense, prolonging the process even more.</p>
<p>In my opinion, there was no fraudulent act when this guy cohabited with the married woman. Maybe the husband works or has friends in the judiciary. A good lawyer is a must in this case.</p>
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		<title>By: Pa</title>
		<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2008/11/estafa-are-you-aquainted/comment-page-1/#comment-32050</link>
		<dc:creator>Pa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:43:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/?p=5189#comment-32050</guid>
		<description>Hi Dave, it&#039;s a pity I only read your message now. I have just recently experienced this Estafa thing with a contractor who was building my house. I had paid up front 50% of the cost to build the house, and only to be told by my contractor that the house is now at 70% completion and wanted more funds. I hired a appraiser and some engineers to get a estimate of the cost and a progress report, only to find that the house value and the % finished was well below of what my contractor had said and refused to pay the extra funds. We had an argument and I stopped all works on the project. When I was ready to leave the Philippines and was about to board the plane, I was stopped by immigration and a Letter of Estafa was presented to me and I was unable to leave the country for a period of two weeks, until I got clearance from a lawyer I hired that I could leave the Philippines. This was a very very embarrassing moment for the wife and me. This happened in November and I am still waiting for either a court case or the case being thrown out of court. I have heard so much of the coruption that goes on in the Philippines and doubt wheather I will win this one, but I will do everything in my power to put this contractor behind bars. Just a heads up for other expats be very careful who you do buisness with, get a lawyer first
Cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dave, it&#8217;s a pity I only read your message now. I have just recently experienced this Estafa thing with a contractor who was building my house. I had paid up front 50% of the cost to build the house, and only to be told by my contractor that the house is now at 70% completion and wanted more funds. I hired a appraiser and some engineers to get a estimate of the cost and a progress report, only to find that the house value and the % finished was well below of what my contractor had said and refused to pay the extra funds. We had an argument and I stopped all works on the project. When I was ready to leave the Philippines and was about to board the plane, I was stopped by immigration and a Letter of Estafa was presented to me and I was unable to leave the country for a period of two weeks, until I got clearance from a lawyer I hired that I could leave the Philippines. This was a very very embarrassing moment for the wife and me. This happened in November and I am still waiting for either a court case or the case being thrown out of court. I have heard so much of the coruption that goes on in the Philippines and doubt wheather I will win this one, but I will do everything in my power to put this contractor behind bars. Just a heads up for other expats be very careful who you do buisness with, get a lawyer first<br />
Cheers</p>
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		<title>By: BETH</title>
		<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2008/11/estafa-are-you-aquainted/comment-page-1/#comment-32049</link>
		<dc:creator>BETH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 17:24:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/?p=5189#comment-32049</guid>
		<description>HI?I JUST WANT TO ASK AN ADVICE?SOMEONE LEND A MONEY TO ME,BEC.I WANTED TO HELP HER I BORROWED FROM OTHER PEOPLE ,I TRUST HIM AND SHE PROMISE ME TO PAY ME 10,000 MONTHLY UNTILL SHE WILL RETURN THE WHOLE  AMOUNT.THIS IS HER PROMISE,TO  MAKE ME BELIEVE THAT SHE IS NOT LIEYING SHE LET ME HOLD AND WITHDRAW HER MONTHLY SALARY. THE 10,000 MONTHLY PAY WAS NOT ABLE TO GIVE TO ME DUE TO THE SALARY IS NOT ENOUGH,UNTILL I FOUND OUT THAT THE ATM I’M HOLDING IS NOT HER OWN ATM BUT THE OTHER PEOPLE.AND FOUND OUT THAT SHE BORROWED ALSO FROM OTHER PEOPLE.SO,I WAS PANIC AND IMMEDIATELY MADE AN AGGREEMENT LETTER BY MY OWN, STATED THE AMOUNT SHE LEND AND HOW LONG SHE WILL PAY IT.I LET HER SIGN IT WITH THUMBMARK.BUT STILL NOTHING HAPPEN.SHE DID THE SAME, 2 MONTHS PASSED BY WITHOUT GIVING ME A PAY,UNTILL SHE GO HOME IN THE PHILLIPINES WITHOUT MY KNOWLEGDE.WHEN I LET HER SIGN THE AGREEMENT LETTER I TOLD HER TO GIVE TO HER INFORMATION IN THE PHIL.I HAVE HER ADDRESS HER HOMETOWN,DO I HAVE THE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN OR ACCUSE HER AN ESTAFA?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HI?I JUST WANT TO ASK AN ADVICE?SOMEONE LEND A MONEY TO ME,BEC.I WANTED TO HELP HER I BORROWED FROM OTHER PEOPLE ,I TRUST HIM AND SHE PROMISE ME TO PAY ME 10,000 MONTHLY UNTILL SHE WILL RETURN THE WHOLE  AMOUNT.THIS IS HER PROMISE,TO  MAKE ME BELIEVE THAT SHE IS NOT LIEYING SHE LET ME HOLD AND WITHDRAW HER MONTHLY SALARY. THE 10,000 MONTHLY PAY WAS NOT ABLE TO GIVE TO ME DUE TO THE SALARY IS NOT ENOUGH,UNTILL I FOUND OUT THAT THE ATM I’M HOLDING IS NOT HER OWN ATM BUT THE OTHER PEOPLE.AND FOUND OUT THAT SHE BORROWED ALSO FROM OTHER PEOPLE.SO,I WAS PANIC AND IMMEDIATELY MADE AN AGGREEMENT LETTER BY MY OWN, STATED THE AMOUNT SHE LEND AND HOW LONG SHE WILL PAY IT.I LET HER SIGN IT WITH THUMBMARK.BUT STILL NOTHING HAPPEN.SHE DID THE SAME, 2 MONTHS PASSED BY WITHOUT GIVING ME A PAY,UNTILL SHE GO HOME IN THE PHILLIPINES WITHOUT MY KNOWLEGDE.WHEN I LET HER SIGN THE AGREEMENT LETTER I TOLD HER TO GIVE TO HER INFORMATION IN THE PHIL.I HAVE HER ADDRESS HER HOMETOWN,DO I HAVE THE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN OR ACCUSE HER AN ESTAFA?</p>
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		<title>By: BETH</title>
		<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2008/11/estafa-are-you-aquainted/comment-page-1/#comment-32048</link>
		<dc:creator>BETH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 17:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/?p=5189#comment-32048</guid>
		<description>HI?I JUST WANT TO ASK AN  ADVICE?SOMEONE LEND A MONEY TO ME,BEC.I WANTED TO HELP HER I BORROWED FROM OTHER PEOPLE ,I TRUST HIM AND SHE PROMISE ME TO PAY ME 10,000 MONTHLY UNTILL SHE WILL RETURN THE AMOUNT.THAT IS HER PROMISE,SO MAKE ME BELIEVE THAT SHE IS NOT LIEYING SHE LET ME HOLD AND WITHDRAW HER MONTHLY SALARY.  THE 10,000 MONTHLY PAY WAS NOT ABLE TO GIVE TO ME DUE TO THE SALARY IS NOT ENOUGH,UNTILL I FOUND OUT THAT THE ATM I&#039;M HOLDING IS HER&#039;S.SO,I WAS PANIC AND IMMEDIATELY MADE AN AGGREEMENT LETTER BY MY OWN, STATED THE AMOUNT SHE LEND AND  HOW LONG SHE WILL PAY IT.I LET HER SIGN IT WITH THUMBMARK.BUT STILL NOTHING HAPPEN.SHE DID THE SAME, 2 MONTHS PASSED  BY WITHOUT GIVING ME A PAY,UNTILL SHE GO HOME IN THE PHILLIPINES WITHOUT MY KNOWLEGDE.WHEN I LET HER SIGN THE AGREEMENT LETTER I TOLD HER TO GIVE TO HER INFORMATION IN THE PHIL.I HAVE THE ADD.IN HER HOMETOWN,DO I HAVE THE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN OR ACCUSE HER AN ESTAFA?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HI?I JUST WANT TO ASK AN  ADVICE?SOMEONE LEND A MONEY TO ME,BEC.I WANTED TO HELP HER I BORROWED FROM OTHER PEOPLE ,I TRUST HIM AND SHE PROMISE ME TO PAY ME 10,000 MONTHLY UNTILL SHE WILL RETURN THE AMOUNT.THAT IS HER PROMISE,SO MAKE ME BELIEVE THAT SHE IS NOT LIEYING SHE LET ME HOLD AND WITHDRAW HER MONTHLY SALARY.  THE 10,000 MONTHLY PAY WAS NOT ABLE TO GIVE TO ME DUE TO THE SALARY IS NOT ENOUGH,UNTILL I FOUND OUT THAT THE ATM I&#8217;M HOLDING IS HER&#8217;S.SO,I WAS PANIC AND IMMEDIATELY MADE AN AGGREEMENT LETTER BY MY OWN, STATED THE AMOUNT SHE LEND AND  HOW LONG SHE WILL PAY IT.I LET HER SIGN IT WITH THUMBMARK.BUT STILL NOTHING HAPPEN.SHE DID THE SAME, 2 MONTHS PASSED  BY WITHOUT GIVING ME A PAY,UNTILL SHE GO HOME IN THE PHILLIPINES WITHOUT MY KNOWLEGDE.WHEN I LET HER SIGN THE AGREEMENT LETTER I TOLD HER TO GIVE TO HER INFORMATION IN THE PHIL.I HAVE THE ADD.IN HER HOMETOWN,DO I HAVE THE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN OR ACCUSE HER AN ESTAFA?</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2008/11/estafa-are-you-aquainted/comment-page-1/#comment-32045</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 00:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/?p=5189#comment-32045</guid>
		<description>Hello Haley,

Providing you have evidence that you gave money and money was a loan and not a gift you can file case in Philippines.

Just hire a lawyer and let him handle case while your in Saudi, request a hold order be put on lady so she cant leave Philippines, have property sheriffed until outcome of case and if you get favorable outcome then have attached any assets the lady may hold.

Justin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Haley,</p>
<p>Providing you have evidence that you gave money and money was a loan and not a gift you can file case in Philippines.</p>
<p>Just hire a lawyer and let him handle case while your in Saudi, request a hold order be put on lady so she cant leave Philippines, have property sheriffed until outcome of case and if you get favorable outcome then have attached any assets the lady may hold.</p>
<p>Justin</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2008/11/estafa-are-you-aquainted/comment-page-1/#comment-32044</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 00:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/?p=5189#comment-32044</guid>
		<description>Hello Dave,

Should their case be fought in the Philippines then indeed its possible. I have a very good friend in Mindanao currently in such a legal battle.

The guy owns a large factory that uses a patented technology that he invented and got investment from a filipino in the states for a few hundred thousand dollars to expand the factory. Anyway he over expanded without thinking of opperating capital and factory never went into full opperation because of this.

Fellow from America flew to Philippines and filed a case which has now been going on for around 6 years. The courts sherrifed some property and etc untill outcome of case which could realistically take decades.

Never made much sense to me how you could sue over a failed investment but they did , so it is possible.

Justin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Dave,</p>
<p>Should their case be fought in the Philippines then indeed its possible. I have a very good friend in Mindanao currently in such a legal battle.</p>
<p>The guy owns a large factory that uses a patented technology that he invented and got investment from a filipino in the states for a few hundred thousand dollars to expand the factory. Anyway he over expanded without thinking of opperating capital and factory never went into full opperation because of this.</p>
<p>Fellow from America flew to Philippines and filed a case which has now been going on for around 6 years. The courts sherrifed some property and etc untill outcome of case which could realistically take decades.</p>
<p>Never made much sense to me how you could sue over a failed investment but they did , so it is possible.</p>
<p>Justin</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2008/11/estafa-are-you-aquainted/comment-page-1/#comment-32043</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 00:28:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/?p=5189#comment-32043</guid>
		<description>Hello,

I wonder if courts would do anything as actually have a Filipino friend in America who&#039;s is in land dispute with his family over some valuable commercial holdings in the Philippines, one of the siblings also in America tried suing him here in states for allegedly stealing the money from their property rentals in Philippines. Anyway Judge threw the case out and gave the sibling of my friend a good scolding for wasting his time.

Justin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello,</p>
<p>I wonder if courts would do anything as actually have a Filipino friend in America who&#8217;s is in land dispute with his family over some valuable commercial holdings in the Philippines, one of the siblings also in America tried suing him here in states for allegedly stealing the money from their property rentals in Philippines. Anyway Judge threw the case out and gave the sibling of my friend a good scolding for wasting his time.</p>
<p>Justin</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2008/11/estafa-are-you-aquainted/comment-page-1/#comment-32046</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 23:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/?p=5189#comment-32046</guid>
		<description>Hi Haley R.,

Thanks for readingand for commenting.  Goodness knows, though, you must have me confused with someone who actually knows something ;-)  As I think I have made clear before ... certainly I will now ... i am not a lawyer and there is no way I can even make a guess at the questions you pose.

This is one of those situations where you truly need a lawyer, and a good one, becuase you have alot of international law and different nationalities involved.  Asking these kinds of questioons online is fine, this is an open forum and that&#039;s what we are here for, but in my lay opinion, your chances of getting a good answer, and an accurate one online like this are slim to none.

You may well, in fact, get a lot of mis-information or conflicting information that might tempt you to take action that could hurt your case.

My leaglly sound advice?  get a lawyer who specializes in these sorts of cases ... inter-country debts involving OFW&#039;s are very common judging by some of the private questions I get, and use proper legal guidance ... sorry, that&#039;s all the help I can offer.

I can say from a non-legal perspective that you sentence above doesn&#039;t quite make sense to me.  You gave someone capital to use in her buisness and now it&#039;s gone?  That&#039;s what usually happens to capital invested in buisness.  More than 80% of small bsi8nesses started, even in good economic times fail within the first 5 years ... that&#039;s the risk of business.  And when you give soeone money for their business, unless you are also an owner, the money is their to use ... using the money for a non-busines spurpose might be illeagl, but making bad investment decisons within the business is just human error.  Without more sopecifics I don&#039;t know if even a alwyer can figure this one out.

That&#039;s why if someone asks me for an investment, I almnost never agree.  If I think they are a good person and the business has a chance, I make a gift and forget about it ... saves me alot of ulcers and high blood pills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Haley R.,</p>
<p>Thanks for readingand for commenting.  Goodness knows, though, you must have me confused with someone who actually knows something <img src='http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />   As I think I have made clear before &#8230; certainly I will now &#8230; i am not a lawyer and there is no way I can even make a guess at the questions you pose.</p>
<p>This is one of those situations where you truly need a lawyer, and a good one, becuase you have alot of international law and different nationalities involved.  Asking these kinds of questioons online is fine, this is an open forum and that&#8217;s what we are here for, but in my lay opinion, your chances of getting a good answer, and an accurate one online like this are slim to none.</p>
<p>You may well, in fact, get a lot of mis-information or conflicting information that might tempt you to take action that could hurt your case.</p>
<p>My leaglly sound advice?  get a lawyer who specializes in these sorts of cases &#8230; inter-country debts involving OFW&#8217;s are very common judging by some of the private questions I get, and use proper legal guidance &#8230; sorry, that&#8217;s all the help I can offer.</p>
<p>I can say from a non-legal perspective that you sentence above doesn&#8217;t quite make sense to me.  You gave someone capital to use in her buisness and now it&#8217;s gone?  That&#8217;s what usually happens to capital invested in buisness.  More than 80% of small bsi8nesses started, even in good economic times fail within the first 5 years &#8230; that&#8217;s the risk of business.  And when you give soeone money for their business, unless you are also an owner, the money is their to use &#8230; using the money for a non-busines spurpose might be illeagl, but making bad investment decisons within the business is just human error.  Without more sopecifics I don&#8217;t know if even a alwyer can figure this one out.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why if someone asks me for an investment, I almnost never agree.  If I think they are a good person and the business has a chance, I make a gift and forget about it &#8230; saves me alot of ulcers and high blood pills.</p>
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