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	<title>Comments on: Shocking Electricity Charges</title>
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	<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2009/07/shocking-electricity-charges/</link>
	<description>The Web Magazine for Expats in the Philippines and those who want to be</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:06:44 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2009/07/shocking-electricity-charges/comment-page-1/#comment-71124</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 02:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/?p=8405#comment-71124</guid>
		<description>Hi Avner,

Every electricity company in the Philippines will have their own fee structure when it comes to opening an account. Some require a set deposit to help recoup any potential losses from people who fail to pay their bill. Please ask what the high rate is for. If they are asking you to pay the delinquent account of the owner who had a meter on the property prior to you, then they are not allowed to do so. 

But if the fees are for installation, and paying a deposit, then perhaps it is legitimate. It just seems very high, as I know P10K is more than the monthly salary of many Filipino households, and not many new customers could afford electricity connections with such a high rate.

I hope this helps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Avner,</p>
<p>Every electricity company in the Philippines will have their own fee structure when it comes to opening an account. Some require a set deposit to help recoup any potential losses from people who fail to pay their bill. Please ask what the high rate is for. If they are asking you to pay the delinquent account of the owner who had a meter on the property prior to you, then they are not allowed to do so. </p>
<p>But if the fees are for installation, and paying a deposit, then perhaps it is legitimate. It just seems very high, as I know P10K is more than the monthly salary of many Filipino households, and not many new customers could afford electricity connections with such a high rate.</p>
<p>I hope this helps.</p>
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		<title>By: Avner Barak</title>
		<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2009/07/shocking-electricity-charges/comment-page-1/#comment-71060</link>
		<dc:creator>Avner Barak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 13:05:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/?p=8405#comment-71060</guid>
		<description>Hi,
I just want to know how much does it cost to get an elecricity connection in the philippines if i have a newly built house there. I am told I have to pay 10,500 Pesos. Is this true?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,<br />
I just want to know how much does it cost to get an elecricity connection in the philippines if i have a newly built house there. I am told I have to pay 10,500 Pesos. Is this true?</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2009/07/shocking-electricity-charges/comment-page-1/#comment-63684</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/?p=8405#comment-63684</guid>
		<description>Hi Michael,

Yes, it appears efforts to tackle delinquency goes too far in many cases. 

In the electricity connection case, there is a law that prohibits this tactic by the utilities. Nick was kind enough to provide the link to the Magna Carta for Electricity Consumers that is overseen by the Electricity Regulatory Commission of the Philippines. 

In the case of unpaid taxes and property transfer, most lawyers know the proper proceedings for making sure the property transfer goes according to the deal stuck between buyer and sell, and that includes who pays any outstanding taxes. The moral of the story for property transactions is to have an advocate draw up the agreement properly and you should have no headaches when it comes to execution of land transfer.

Thanks for sharing, I agree with you and how frustrating these issues can be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Michael,</p>
<p>Yes, it appears efforts to tackle delinquency goes too far in many cases. </p>
<p>In the electricity connection case, there is a law that prohibits this tactic by the utilities. Nick was kind enough to provide the link to the Magna Carta for Electricity Consumers that is overseen by the Electricity Regulatory Commission of the Philippines. </p>
<p>In the case of unpaid taxes and property transfer, most lawyers know the proper proceedings for making sure the property transfer goes according to the deal stuck between buyer and sell, and that includes who pays any outstanding taxes. The moral of the story for property transactions is to have an advocate draw up the agreement properly and you should have no headaches when it comes to execution of land transfer.</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing, I agree with you and how frustrating these issues can be.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Carrington</title>
		<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2009/07/shocking-electricity-charges/comment-page-1/#comment-63656</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Carrington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 17:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/?p=8405#comment-63656</guid>
		<description>Martin it doesn&#039;t surprise me the electrical company would try to make you pay someone else&#039;s unpaid bill. If you buy a property and the seller fails to pay their capital gains tax which is lawfully their tax to pay the government will refuse to give you your tax declaration until the capital gains tax is paid. Quite naturally you will end up having to pay the sellers tax for them unless you take the seller to court and successfully force them to pay. Lots of luck squeezing blood from a turnip. When at the BIR I raised the argument that I and my wife had paid every tax that is lawfully ours to pay and therefore we have a right to the tax declaration. I also argued that that even if the BIR wasn&#039;t breaking any law it was still guilty of violating our rights. Making us pay for someone else&#039;s tax bill is a crime against us even if the law allows for it. There doesn&#039;t have to be a law against a crime in order for that crime to be a crime. The next time I and my wife bought property we witheld from the seller their property gains tax knowing that they would likely never pay it if we trusted them to pay it. On the day of the sale we gave the seller the sale price minus their tax liability and a receipt showing the tax was paid. Well there you have my two cents worth.

Sincerely,
Michael</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin it doesn&#8217;t surprise me the electrical company would try to make you pay someone else&#8217;s unpaid bill. If you buy a property and the seller fails to pay their capital gains tax which is lawfully their tax to pay the government will refuse to give you your tax declaration until the capital gains tax is paid. Quite naturally you will end up having to pay the sellers tax for them unless you take the seller to court and successfully force them to pay. Lots of luck squeezing blood from a turnip. When at the BIR I raised the argument that I and my wife had paid every tax that is lawfully ours to pay and therefore we have a right to the tax declaration. I also argued that that even if the BIR wasn&#8217;t breaking any law it was still guilty of violating our rights. Making us pay for someone else&#8217;s tax bill is a crime against us even if the law allows for it. There doesn&#8217;t have to be a law against a crime in order for that crime to be a crime. The next time I and my wife bought property we witheld from the seller their property gains tax knowing that they would likely never pay it if we trusted them to pay it. On the day of the sale we gave the seller the sale price minus their tax liability and a receipt showing the tax was paid. Well there you have my two cents worth.</p>
<p>Sincerely,<br />
Michael</p>
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		<title>By: pogidaga</title>
		<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2009/07/shocking-electricity-charges/comment-page-1/#comment-57698</link>
		<dc:creator>pogidaga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/?p=8405#comment-57698</guid>
		<description>Lloyd: I&#039;ve not heard of the &quot;powerx&quot; system, but it might similar to some &quot;power factor&quot; correctors i&#039;ve seen advertised on the net. Those are worthless rip-offs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lloyd: I&#8217;ve not heard of the &#8220;powerx&#8221; system, but it might similar to some &#8220;power factor&#8221; correctors i&#8217;ve seen advertised on the net. Those are worthless rip-offs.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2009/07/shocking-electricity-charges/comment-page-1/#comment-57697</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 09:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/?p=8405#comment-57697</guid>
		<description>Hi Capitanbrgy,

I&#039;ve been lucky enough to live in a number of different countries. I have found that everywhere you live, there are good things and bad things. Some places offer more of one type of living experience, while others offer a different type of living experience. Some places are easier to live in than others. But then again, some people adapt better than others. I also believe a person learns more about where they are from when they leave rather than when they only live within their own country. It is only by living somewhere else that one gains perspective on what your country does well, and what it doesn&#039;t do well at.

I hope you get the opportunity to live someplace else --- it doesn&#039;t matter if that is for a long stay, or for a short one. I think the experience of living in different countries and in different cultural settings really makes ones&#039; life &#039;richer&#039;, and I don&#039;t mean that in a monetary sense.

Thanks for sharing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Capitanbrgy,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been lucky enough to live in a number of different countries. I have found that everywhere you live, there are good things and bad things. Some places offer more of one type of living experience, while others offer a different type of living experience. Some places are easier to live in than others. But then again, some people adapt better than others. I also believe a person learns more about where they are from when they leave rather than when they only live within their own country. It is only by living somewhere else that one gains perspective on what your country does well, and what it doesn&#8217;t do well at.</p>
<p>I hope you get the opportunity to live someplace else &#8212; it doesn&#8217;t matter if that is for a long stay, or for a short one. I think the experience of living in different countries and in different cultural settings really makes ones&#8217; life &#8216;richer&#8217;, and I don&#8217;t mean that in a monetary sense.</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing!</p>
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		<title>By: capitanbrgy</title>
		<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2009/07/shocking-electricity-charges/comment-page-1/#comment-57696</link>
		<dc:creator>capitanbrgy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 07:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/?p=8405#comment-57696</guid>
		<description>Am born here in the Philippines, I know that the standard easy to do paper works become not so easy when Pilipino takes care of it. But I did not know that despite the Philippines uncomfortable living standards you guys still want to live here. While me, on the other hand are trying to go to the states.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am born here in the Philippines, I know that the standard easy to do paper works become not so easy when Pilipino takes care of it. But I did not know that despite the Philippines uncomfortable living standards you guys still want to live here. While me, on the other hand are trying to go to the states.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2009/07/shocking-electricity-charges/comment-page-1/#comment-57695</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/?p=8405#comment-57695</guid>
		<description>Hi Martin,

I doubt it is legal here either, but I guess they figure there&#039;s no harm in trying.  The worst that could most likely happen for them is a slap on the wrist as they say, and a refund to the customer, if they are caught up in it - should someone be unwise enough to pay.  I only run into this as real estate is one of my businesses.  I don&#039;t see it with all the utilities, mostly just the smaller ones.  Glad to hear that you finally got your meter and wire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Martin,</p>
<p>I doubt it is legal here either, but I guess they figure there&#8217;s no harm in trying.  The worst that could most likely happen for them is a slap on the wrist as they say, and a refund to the customer, if they are caught up in it &#8211; should someone be unwise enough to pay.  I only run into this as real estate is one of my businesses.  I don&#8217;t see it with all the utilities, mostly just the smaller ones.  Glad to hear that you finally got your meter and wire.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2009/07/shocking-electricity-charges/comment-page-1/#comment-57694</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 07:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/?p=8405#comment-57694</guid>
		<description>Hi Bill,

I suspect things are a real mess with the high rates of foreclosure in many parts of the US. I bet the utilities aren&#039;t prepared or have enough staff to keep track of all the delinquent accounts and transfers. Here in the Philippines, you&#039;d be surprised to know how insistent the utility was that I had to pay, and that it was their policy! I think in my care the utility was dangerously close to getting into trouble with the Energy Regulatory Commission here in the Philippines. The minute I asked for the officer to put their policy in writing, the entire office changed their tune entirely. Thankfully, Nick sent the link from the ERC where it states this practice is not permissible in the Philippines. As you say, the wire and meter is another story altogether. On a side-note, since this post was written, we did receive our meter and wire.

Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bill,</p>
<p>I suspect things are a real mess with the high rates of foreclosure in many parts of the US. I bet the utilities aren&#8217;t prepared or have enough staff to keep track of all the delinquent accounts and transfers. Here in the Philippines, you&#8217;d be surprised to know how insistent the utility was that I had to pay, and that it was their policy! I think in my care the utility was dangerously close to getting into trouble with the Energy Regulatory Commission here in the Philippines. The minute I asked for the officer to put their policy in writing, the entire office changed their tune entirely. Thankfully, Nick sent the link from the ERC where it states this practice is not permissible in the Philippines. As you say, the wire and meter is another story altogether. On a side-note, since this post was written, we did receive our meter and wire.</p>
<p>Cheers!</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/2009/07/shocking-electricity-charges/comment-page-1/#comment-57693</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liveinthephilippines.com/content/?p=8405#comment-57693</guid>
		<description>Martin - I&#039;ve seen the utilities here in Florida USA try to collect on former bills at the same property too, since all of this foreclosure stuff started a couple years back. It generally just takes a gentle push back, a stack of documentation, and problem solved.  Now the deal with the meter and the wire, all together different. That&#039;s just the way things work there and throughout most of the tropics.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin &#8211; I&#8217;ve seen the utilities here in Florida USA try to collect on former bills at the same property too, since all of this foreclosure stuff started a couple years back. It generally just takes a gentle push back, a stack of documentation, and problem solved.  Now the deal with the meter and the wire, all together different. That&#8217;s just the way things work there and throughout most of the tropics.  <img src='http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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