Is it possible? Could it be? The Philippine Department of Tourism is possibly on the verge of making a very good move, in my opinion!
What are they doing? Why is it good?
Well, it was announced today that the Department of Tourism is planning to begin issuing a new type of visa for foreigners who wish to stay in the Philippines. It will be a Medical Tourist Visa.
Without a doubt, Medical Tourism is a wave that has already begun making splashes on the shores of other Asian countries, and a bit of a splash even here in the Philippines in recent years. Currently, medical tourism is huge in India and Thailand, and this move by the DoT aims to bring a big stream of visitors needing medical care to Philippine shores as well.
This new visa, which is scheduled to be available this year will allow people coming for medical attention a 6 month stay in the Philippines with no need for any renewals, or to apply for an ACR card, as regular tourists now have to do if they extend their visas. This is a big plus in making it easier for medical tourists to be able to stay in the Philippines hassle free during their treatment time. So far, I have not heard anything said about whether the visa will be renewable at the end of the 6 months, but I am sure more details will come out in a reasonable amount of time.
It is funny that this news should be announced today, because just last night, I was having coffee with a regular LiP reader was arrived just yesterday for a visit to Davao. We were talking about some medical needs that he had taken care of in Manila recently. He told me about his hospital stay, which involved 4 different surgeries, and his entire medical bill (in Manila, where things are more expensive) was only $6,000. This fellow told me how happy he was with the treatment he received. He told me that not only was the treatment very inexpensive, but he felt that the care he received was at least on par with what he would have gotten in the USA, and possibly better.
In my own case, I was hospitalized for two weeks in 2001 when I suffered a stroke, and I felt exactly the same as my friend – I received inexpensive care that was really first class all the way.
Sometimes I hear other expats talk about planning to go abroad, usually back to their homeland, if they need medical treatment. In my case, I cannot imagine any procedure that I would elect to have back in the USA compared to here in the Philippines. A large percentage of doctors here are trained in the USA, so their training is certainly up to date. Many nurses educated here end up working in other countries all over the world, showing that nurses from here can compete on the world scene. So, why go elsewhere when medical care is needed.
With this new Medical Tourist Visa, it really opens the doors for a huge expansion of attracting tourists who would come to have inexpensive medical treatment. It’s been a long time since I said this, but I truly believe that the Philippine Department of Tourism is on the right track with this new move! Congratulations to Secretary Alberto Lim and his team at the DoT! Good move.
A Brilliant idea! Thailand has been leading the way in this field but the friendliness of the people in the Philippines should result in an explosion of people willing to go their and then go home and tell all their friends!
Hi Chris – Indeed, brilliant! I hope they don’t do something to mess it up, but I am on guard for that!
Not just the Department of Tourism messing up, remember that YouTube video posted a few years ago of an object being removed from a patient’s rectum and the doctors and nurses laughing during the surgery at a hospital in the Philippines .
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2002586/posts
It would have been hard for them not to laugh, but filming it and posting it on YouTube must have been bad for medical tourism in the Philippines.
Hi Jeff – Bad things happen in every country. People do stupid things. I know that I have received excellent health care here, though, and I see no reason why others should not be able to get that as well, and at a reasonable cost.
Goodness me, an interesting article indeed. Personally, I can’t help feel that a more civilised selection of videos of such things should be publicly available to teach these idiots what not to do. A more recent case, also a stag night prank, involved a guys “friends” slipping an eel up where such things shouldn’t go. Unfortunately the prank backfired, because the eel liked his new surroundings, and happily ate the guys bowels, causing his death.
Don’t do it people…you have been warned.
Wow the lights are on and someone is finally home at the DOT. Nice to see the Philippines recognizes the importance of such a visa and now hopefully they will start to promote it agressively overseas to compete head on with places like Thailand. I have numerous friends here that have taken advantage of the excellent medical care here both on a voluntary and involuntary basis and all speak volumes of the professionalism and expertise. Bravo Department of Tourism.
Hi Dwayne – Indeed, the lights are on and somebody is actually inside the DoT! Great news!
“… or to apply for an ACR card, as regular tourists now have to do if they extend their visas.” i may be misunderstandoing but is it possible to get an ACR without being married?
Hi Alan – Being married and an ACR Card? The two have nothing to do with each other. In fact, the way the law is now, anybody who is not a citizen and is in the Philippines for more than 59 days is REQUIRED to have an ACR card. Marriage and an ACR card have never had anything to do with each other.
I saw a report about this on the news 2 yeras ago about Thialand getting Americans to go there for medical treatments. The rooms were like hotels,and the care was first rate. I would not hesitate to go to the Philippiens with the freindlyness I know you would get there. The report said insurance companies were happy to pay for cheaper care . What a shock lol.
Hi Eric – Thailand and India are both doing tons of business on Medical Tourism. No reason for the Philippines not to go for it!
Medical Tourism? I’ve actually heard of this before, poeple who can’t get cosmetic treatment travelling overseas to save money. I don’t see it bringing much european tourism, but it might bring a few American’s who were lax with their healthcare insurance. Do you think it could be a real moneyspinner for the Philippines?
Hi Gordon – Firstly, medical tourism attracts a lot more than cosmetic surgery. And a lot more than people who don’t have health insurance. In fact, many insurance companies are paying for their insured to get treatment in places like Thailand and India, and including a vacation in the process.
Gosh, that’s interesting, we have relatively good healthcare provided here in Australia, but it makes sense for the insurance companies I suppose. What is a little sad is that the Filipino people themselves are sometimes dying for want of decent healthcare.
What I meant by cosmetic surgery was that that is often not available on insurance schemes, or even a proper government health service.
I understand, Gordon. What I meant is that it is not ONLY for cosmetic procedures, though. 😉
Hi Bob – I’m not 100% sure that this kind of tourisim is what the country needs. The medical profession will certainly benefit but what about the hotels and resorts?
From a UK citizen perspective where we have a National Health Service I cannot see it attracting many customers as you have to consider the flight costs the recouperation costs as airlines will not let you fly unless your fit to travel following a serious proceedure like a transplant etc. It is OK for an expat living here but I have reservations on this issue.
Regards.
Jim.
Hi Jim – For Medical Tourism, the insurance companies often even pay for flights and all other costs, and it is much cheaper to do it that way.
Expats would not even qualify for a medical visa, or need one. Not sure I understand what you mean by that.
Bob
Even if you had to pay for your own flight its still very inexpensive. This is is a win-win deal for the tourist and for the Philippines. They could get there surgery done and than stay some extra days to visit the sights. God article Bob
I agree, Randy! The savings are big enough to save enough to pay the flight!
I had heard that a few major US med. carriers are now integrating the overseas medical option in thier policies. Thailand years ago realized that in order to attract expats to retire thier that they had to have first rate medical care. Along with thier easily obtained retirement visa it is now a thriving expat destination that has paid them back many times over.
Thailand employs some unique approaches to tourism, in the tourist “hotspots” they use retired expat with police experince to patrol the crowded areas….they learned they have much less confrontational situations when they send in an expat of the same nationalism to defuse the roudy tourist.
Hi brian – Indeed, a year or two ago I wrote about the expat police in Thailand. The Philippines, I believe, could learn a lot by studying that program.
Say Bob, now there is a novel idea…..make it easy for people to stay here and spend money in the Philippines. OH WAIT!!!! Duh, why don’t they just allow unlimited length of stay and free visas to every foreigner that wants to either visit, or live here AND spend money! Instead they try and bleed everyone that wants to stay here longer than 21 days. Hmmm, could THAT be part of the reason not so many people want to visit here and stay here? Just a simple thought from the common sense department. Never mind, that would be WAY TOO easy.
Speaking of government idiocy…..The wife and I just got done spending two days getting a mayor’s business permit. Now there’s a real example of why the Philippines is still a third world country. Officials show up at 9 or 10, maybe 11, then break for lunch at 11:30, and drift back in at 1:45 at the absolute earliest, more like 2, or 2:30. Hundreds of business owners and “runners” pushing and shoving, being treated like sheeple. What a pleasant way for the wife and I to spend over 15,000 pesos in two days. Document stamps, receipts, signing, stamping, idiotic clearances based upon absolutely nothing, staple this, pay this fee, then back upstairs, then back downstairs to pay another trumped up fee, the back up for yet another fire inspection permit, and fee, of course. Now here’s a novel thought…..show up, give money, recieve permit. Same end result, but way beyond the realm of possibility here in the Philippines, the wasteland of practicality and common sense.
Hey Dave – I sense your frustration with the government bureaucracy getting business permit Even locals here have the same complaints.
Hi Dave – How about turning the question around? Why doesn’t the US allow people to come and visit for up to two years without even getting a visa? Why can’t any person in the world fly into the USA without anything more than a passport. Remember, many tourism policies depend on reciprocity, and the USA is probably the most closed country in the world, and the most difficult for people to visit. So, it’s important to look at our own countries before criticizing others. Not wanting to be mean or anything, I just can’t fathom US laws about visiting and such sometimes. Last week, I saw that a 9 year old kid in the UK was denied a visa to go to Disney World because they said he was a threat to overstay. My goodness!
Bob
You can thank 9-11 for that!
Having worked in several countries in the middle east I can assure you that the USA is not the most closed country in the world.
Hi Tony – Perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying. I never said that the US was the most closed country in the world… I only was saying that it is more closed than the Philippines is. 😀
Hi Bob, Dave,
Two points: first on getting business permits, and second on medical care in the Philippines.
Yam and I now have four locations of our clothing stores in various cities in the Philippines. In all cases Yam merely turned in the paperwork for permits one day and came back to pick it up, completed, the next day. So maybe Dave’s experience is more dependent on his particular locale.
As to medical care compared to the States or other “First World” places, my position is that medical care can be broken down into three phases. First is the diagnosis in which a doctor deduces what precisely ails you, second is the surgery or procedure to correct the issue, and third, and maybe the most important, the post-procedure nursing care done to actually get you healed.
Unequivocally, nursing care in the Philippines far, far outstrips anything one can get in the US without spending hundreds per day. Unlike the Philippines, most hospitals in the states won’t allow you to bring in your own privately hired nurse.
Surgery is an art and skill acquired by hands on experience. Technology is secondary. My shoulder surgeries last June was performed using the latest methods, and in fact, my surgeon left the Philippines soon after to teach surgical techniques in Paris and Indonesia. He’s done training in the states as well as Europe.
Last year when Toshiba unveiled their latest 3D MRI scanner, two of the first three devices sold went to the states, and the third was installed at St. Luke’s in Quezon City. So technology isn’t an issue either.
All in all, unless there is some extremely rare, sub medical specialty that isn’t offered in the Philippines, I expect to get all my future medical care in the here. Last year I had extensive dental work which involved a root canal and crown being done. The dental office did a complete cleaning and threw in teeth whitening, and the entire shooting match was completed for about a third of what just the whitening would have cost in the states. I’m happy to get my care in the Philippines.
Hi Kevin – Thanks for chiming in with your experiences. My experiences and yours are very similar, both for the medical and the business licensing. No place is perfect, but I think that the Philippines is doing pretty good.
Hey Bob – I agree about the caliber of doctors and nurses. They’re good! Filipino doctors and nurses are more caring here. I think that hospitals here just needs to avail more of the latest machines and equipments. World class inexpensive service combined with good hospitals will further flourish medical tourism here. Anyway, you mentioned you suffered stroke back in 200.. gosh that’s scary. You look so well and healthy. Just take care. Also your friend.
my question is how bad will they ( the govt) screw this up ..like sharks to blood in the water when the smell of money is to be made you can be certain that everyone who can will try and get their greedy fingers in the soup. A new tax here a new line to form there, a surcharge here a fee their…sorry sir we need this document ect….
Hi brian – Like you, unfortunately, I am watching for what the next step will be to screw up a good idea. We shall see… I, for one, am not expecting smooth sailing on this.
Hi sugar – Yes, I had a stroke in 2001, but I made a full recovery thanks to my determination and hard work. In nearly 10 years since then, I have really not had any problems due to that stroke. Equipment? Many hospitals here do have good equipment and such, so it’s not a problem if you choose a good quality hospital.
A lot of dental procedures take more than a few weeks to get accomplished. The labs are usually sort of slow. I have spent some time in a Manila hospital, the facilities were sort of old and outdated but the care was first rate.
Combining a perfect vacation with inexpensive but quality dental procedure is one of the reasons why I will be travelling to the Philippines this year. The Sacred Heart Dental Clinic in Caloocan specializes in dental tourism, but not sure how fast they are. ( In Costa Rica, dental transplants can be completed in 10 days, they say, at a lot less cost than in the States). The Sacred Heart Dental Clinic will take care of your transportation and accomodation within the city, and will even arrange a day tour of Manila, if you wish.
Travelling to Manila for a cosmetic procedure like hair transplantation is also worth checking into. Your insurance won’t pay for this, but the cost per graft being charged by Manila surgeons is ridiculously cheap compared to the going rate in the States, like Bosley.
Hi Ricardo – I have a great dentist here in Davao, and I work with her on bringing in foreign clients and such. She has been very successful with this.
Good luck with your dental trip later this year!
they can do it in 5 days only. I have a 10 crown all porcelain emax with them. First class service.
Hi Rob – Old and outdated facilities? I wonder, which hospital did you stay at?
I stayed at Makati medical Center.
Hmm.. I have never heard of Matkati Medical Center being old and out of date.
Hi Bob,I’d really like to know where are these body parts coming from,for these Transplants? What mechanism is in place to monitor this kind of “Tourism”? Poverty is EVERYWHERE in the Philippines! If you have any info. on this,please let me know. Thanks!
Not to preempt Bob, I saw a program on the Discovery Channel not long ago about impoverished Filipino males from the slums selling their livers to middle men to feed their families. I don’t remember for how much, but one of the “sellers” was paid enough money to buy a tricycle for business. I understand the Philippines recently legalized such transaction.
Hi Ricardo – You are mistaken. Such transactions were not recently “legalized” – they were recently made illegal!
Ricard- Bob is right! the selling of kidney or liver by poor people is most definitely illegal!
Thanks, sugar.
Yeah it is illegal but I’m just crossing my fingers that someone will not venture into this to give it further boosts when the medical tourists start to come-in. I hope our government and law makers will set-up effective measures to protect the medical tourists and effectively IMPLEMENT the law.
To clarify, one of the posters mentioned “dental transplants”, which started the transplant subject. Dental transplants is, in fact, properly known as dental “implants”, the process by which a false tooth, or teeth, are ‘planted’ into the bone permanently. This is a fairly costly process, especially if you are needing quite a number done!
Given the ineffectiveness of suing people and the haphazard legal system in the Philippines though, if it all went wrong, would I undertake such treatment in the Philippines?…no way whatsoever. If someone messed up my appearance I’d be looking for a very substantial sum which it’s unlikely any insurance company in the Philippines would want to pay, given that a lot of the time they apparently just ignore unwanted claims.
On the other hand though, if I were sent there by an insurance company or health fund, who would themselves be liable, then yes…but I’d be looking into the details with a magnifying glass and my own legal chap firstly!
Gordon, your point regarding the ineffectiveness of a lawsuit in the Philippines in the event of malpractice is well taken. I have mulled this over carefully, given that the procedure I want done in the Philippines is not your run-of-the-mill dental procedure that could be done for a couple of hundred dollars in the States. I would not be travelling to the Philippines if it were so. I understand the risks, but I find it totally unconstructive to dwell on the possibility that I may never recoup a “substantial sum” as compensation for my “messed up appearance” in the event malpractice occurs due to the “haphazard legal system in the Philippines”. If that should occur, I believe, however, that working positively and amicably with the surgeons for corrective surgery is a lot more constructive and much more beneficial to me in the end than thinking about a lawsuit.
I think in most cases you would be right Ricardo, a pleasant approach to resolve the issue is always the first port of call; threatening someone with suing them is, and should always be the very very final resort.
However, perhaps you have misunderstood my comment. Imagine the situation where a problem arises, for example the tooth next to the one you are having fixed is damaged during the surgery beyond repair…this happened to me recently. Now imagine that the dental surgeon smiles at you and says, as is very possible, “No problem sir, I can sort that out for you, but it will be extra work of course, and will cost you the same again as I charged you for the first tooth.” Despite your protestations, his next step is to look out to his waiting room and shout “Next”, while pointing you to the exit door. The subject is now closed as far as he is concerned; what are you going to do?
In fact, I personally could do with about ten implants, a cost of about $30000+ where I live, which I can not justify or afford. My mouth is a bit of a mess, and the alternative is a set of dentures. If I could have that treatment done by what I judged to be a competent dental surgeon in the Philippines for $4000, which I could afford, I’d probably do it. I too would take the chance. It’s the same chance I would be taking if I was paying the $30000 here, but at least I’d know that in the latter case I stand a better chance of being adequately compensated. In the Philippines, I’d have to settle for thinking “oh well, if it goes pear shaped, I can still get the dentures”. So, I actually agree with your weighing up of things, and I wish you luck.
Just a final comment, Gordon. You, of course, realize that one of the reasons why we in the West (especially America) are faced with an ever-increasing cost of medical care to the point where Americans are forced to travel to a lesser developed country to seek affordable medical care is because we are a very litigious society, obsessed with lawsuits and greedy for money and revenge. We would sue – frivolous or not – at the drop of the hat at the urging of unscrupulous lawyers, who are fond of dangling the “contingency” bait to attract clients. As a consequence, many doctors in the States have no recourse but to protect themselves from lawsuits if they are to stay in business. Patients may not realize it, but a huge chunk of their doctor’s bill they complain about actually go to pay their doctor’s insurance premiums. So, in a sense, the doctors in the Philippines can afford to charge less than their American counterparts, because lawsuits in the Philippines are – in the words of the native – hardly entertained.
Yes! I am in full agreement with your thoughts on this, Ricardo!
Me too!
Hi Joe – Firstly, I said nothing in the article about transplants. In fact, there is a Philippine law in place since a few years ago which make it illegal for a foreigner to receive a transplant here. Medical tourism covers a lot more procedures than transplants.
I think Joe was reacting to Ricardo’s use of the term ” dental transplants” lol
I think Ricardo actually meant ” dental implants”
Hi ian – But, Joe was talking about “body parts” and dental implants (or transplants!) would generally not use real teeth! 😆
Right you are, Ian!
Bob, the program I saw on the Discovery Channel showed a balikbayan from the States receiving a liver transplant at a Manila hospital. The program also showed the impoverished Filipino organ seller undergoing surgery for the removal of same at the same hospital. The program was already well underway when I started watching it, and since the surgeries and transactions were openly documented on film, the impression I got was that it was legal. Not to question what you stated that it was recently made illegal, can you tell me what was made illegal? a) the act of selling body organ, or, b) “for a foreigner to receive a transplant here” – your own words as above. Thanks.
Hi Ricardo – Yes, there used to be a big problem with poor Filipinos selling organs to foreigners and making big money doing it. Maybe 3 or 4 years ago a new law was passed forbidding this practice, though. I have no doubts that there was a show about it, but it is now illegal. I do not know if it is illegal to sell body organs here or not, but I do know that foreigners cannot legally come here to receive transplants any longer.
Interesting (and welcome news). Also interesting to see how many people from enlightened countries like the UK and Australia have _no_ concept of what medical care (and the attendant costs) are in the US.
This is a big step in the right direction. Many of the folks in the Philippines government who breeze through Immigration when they do travel, complete with special handling and all sorts of perqs and ‘paki usap’ treatment from fawning underlings have _no_ concept of what coming to the Philippines is like for “non-entitled” people. At least, finally, someone in the DoT has woken up and smelled the coffee.
Regarding the transplant issue and the obvious anti-foreigner feelings this stirs up (they are coming here to harvest our organs), you are spot on Bob about the restrictive laws already in place. In fact, although I don’t dwell on the issue, it’s one of the reasons _not_ to live here long term. If I should ever need a transplant, the law prevents me from having one, just becuase of the color of my skin … or, more accurately, the color of my passport.
Let’s hope I don’t ever need one.
Thanks for your input Dave. I have to say, I agree with everything you said!
Hi Bob, I did’nt know the Law. Thanks !
No problemo, Joe! 😉
I think medical tourism would work well in the Pines if the tourist was directed to an established accredited medical facility in a major city. I certainly wouldn’t want any tourist going to a provincial hospital where the patient has to personally buy his medicines and pay upfront for their treatment. Or have a “watcher” sleep next to you so that you will be okay.
I still haven’t been able to come with grips with the “watcher” concept when there are a dozen or so nurses to one patient.
Hi Boss – I hear you, but I don’t think provincial hospitals will be too active in advertising or pursuing medical tourism business.
HI BOB MY WIFE IS FROM THE PHILIPINES. I WOULD LIKE TO MABY ADVERTISE MY NEW COMPANY IN YOUR BLOG IF POSSIABLE? HOW DOES THAT WORK
Hi Mark – I will contact you directly.
Aahh, the “watchers” at provincial hospitals. Yes, I have seen them – during a night’s stay at an un-named provincial hospital. Scotch-taped on the wall of the auditorium-size ward with beds haphazardly arranged this way and that way was the sign, “Isang pasyente, isang bantay” (One patient, one watcher). The ward reminded me of a busy high school cafeteria. The fluorescent lights on the ceiling were left on all night, and there was constant chatter and activity among patients and their “bantays”, not to mention the sound of backfiring tricycles outside. There was not one “bantay” for each patient, but two or three, some had four, who brought with them a change of clothes for the night as well as “kalderos” of rice and dried fish which they ate on the bed.
At around midnight, some of the watchers changed into their sleeping clothes in full view of the entire ward, and proceeded to sleep on the same bed with the patient. Nurse comes to do her rounds, but had to wake up everyone sleeping on the same bed to find out who the patient was 🙂 Half-awake throughout the night, I woke up around 5AM to the sound of, “Suman, suman kayo diyan”. It was a lady vendor carrying a basket of suman (rice cakes) winding her way around the beds.
I glanced at her at the very same moment she looked at me. We held eyes, oh, probably a second, but she took it to mean that I wanted to buy suman. Long story short, I had suman for breakfast that morning. Hours later, I was on my way home to the barrio – in a tricycle, on a rainy day in May, after I paid the hospital nothing for the overnight stay. Hospitalization was free, but donations accepted, which I gladly paid. Indeed, the hospital experience was a slice of Filipiniana I shall fondly remember for a very long time.
You are right, Ricardo, everything you described is a slice of Filipiniana. Those who don’t like it probably are not likely to enjoy living here!
Hi Bob, Thanks for keeping all of us current with good changes by the DOT. When would you guess this visa will be available? Would you guess dental work, qualify for this 6 month visa? If the work only takes days will you need to leave after the work is done or can you stay the 6 months touring? I know you don’t these specifics but a guess on your part would be good enough for me. Thanks for the great update. Peace Scott
Hi Scott – It is my goal to provide accurate information on this site… not “guesses”. As such, sorry, but I won’t make any guess. Not wanting to be mean or unhelpful, but I have no way of knowing the answer any better than you do, so your guess would be as good as mine. When I do know more, though, I will post it here.
Thanks Bob! I understand problems could occur with all the people that read your site. Can’t imagine all the problems that would occur with guesses, did not even think of that.
No problem, Scott.
First of all I think this new program is brilliant and a long time coming. I do know of people that have gone to the Philippines for cosmetic surgery (hair transplants are MUCH cheaper I here) so why would they not go for other surgeries…especially if the cost was much lower and the quality of care is good.
So many people have the idea that the Philippines is full of a bunch of witch doctors and that care is not good, I have talked to many foreigners who have had medical procedures done in Manila and they say the care was excellent.
Anything that can get tourism to the Philippines is good…once the people find out how nice the people are and how beautiful the country is they will make a return and tell their family and friends.
There is no better advertising for a country or business than word of mouth.
Almost forgot…dental procedures are much lower in cost in the Philippines and that is another thing that needs to be promoted.
My step dad has spent a small fortune in dental implants in America…I bet he could have cut that cost in half AT LEAST by having the work done in the Philippines.
Your stop dad probably could have saved more like 75% to 80% here! 😉
I had a small outpatient surgical procedure done in the US. I had a similar procedure at St Luke’s Global City. My experience at SLMC Global City was FAR better than the US. The facilities were better, the staff and doctor were friendlier, the staff was more helpful, and there were more people on hand to attend to my needs.
Another example, the lab results were returned BEFORE I was sutured up, vs lab results in a week in the US. In both situations the lab results were OK, but if they hadn’t been, I would have had to undergo the procedure a second time in the US.
One thing that wasn’t good, their billing system was down. It took almost two hours to get the bill. But they let me leave and come back, mainly because I wanted to get meds, and I was hungry. I could have probably skipped out, they really didn’t have much in the way of ID. But I didn’t of course. Oh, and the doctor quoted me a total price before the procedure, and adjusted her professional fee to stay within her initial quote because the hospital charged a little more than she estimated.
I have another example. A very good friend had knee replacement surgery in the US. After about a year, she wanted to go back for the other knee. Her visa had expired, but even though she had traveled to the US numerous times, and never overstayed, her application was denied – twice.
Change of plan, she had her surgery instead in Metro Manila – I believe at Asian Hospital and Medical Center, but I’m not positive. Anyway, she could not rave enough about her experience there. From the surgery, the staff, her rehab, and the end results. She stayed for weeks in the facility, she said it was like a condo.
Her knee replaced in the Philippines feels better and stronger to her than the one replaced in the US, the overall experience was better, and at a fraction of the cost. Initially she had not thought of doing the procedure here, and was kind of forced into it – but she now will never look anywhere else for any procedure.
Hi Gary – Thanks for your input. I am not surprised either by your experience, nor by that of your friend. My experiences with medical care in the Philippines have been similar to what you described.
You could not beat the excellent outcome of my cataract operations, in both eyes. Local, wonderful treatment, excellent results and Cheap … from my educated estimates, less than 1/4 the cost in the US. In fact, I’d like to go in business with my doctor, set up a ‘make it easy for the foreigner’ program and take a little cut for services, but he really feels he alrady has enough business here in the Philippines.
Gary – I second that! I agree. Back in in ’05 my ex bf went for an out patient operation or check up. I think in St. Lukes in in QC (they didn’t have the one at Global at that time). The medical care, doctors and nurses and treatment he received was very good. Several excellent hospital here in Manila: Makati Medical, Asian hospital, Medical city, St Lukes, Chinese General, Cardinal Santos UST hospital is good too.
Important also to remember that you don’t have to go to Manila to get good care! Davao Doctor’s Hospital has a World Class heart center! There are lots of good hospitals in many parts of the Philippines.
Yes, St. Luke is a great hospital. My cousin used to work there—and there’s something else about that Hospital and my aunty’s side of the family (my mum’s cousin that is) I don’t know what the story is.. but I just know they have something do with it or .. anyway.. whatever..
I just know it’s supposed to be one of the good ones. When my wife was pregnant we were going to use that hospital—comes with a price too! But she ended up going back to Tagum and gave birth there before moving again to Surigao.
Sugar
Its good to know that about the hospitals there since i will be living about 3 hours from Manila in the future. It’s good to know i will be able to get good care. Thanks so much for the info
You’re welcome, Randy. There are also good hospitals outside Manila, as Bob mentioned.. but I don’t know any. I’m from the city. He he. And also for those retired military folks, there is VA in Manila with hospital list for sure.
Hi Bob, This sure sounds like good news.All tourism needs a magor overhaul.As you have
stated there are bad stories in the USA and the Philippines,Thirty days ago i had a major
stomach surjury in a small town in Alaska great service from all the staff,the nurses were mostly filipino and they did a fantastic job.I also spent a few days in a hosbital in the Philippines when i was living there and was treated very well and would go there again if needed.There are great hosbitals there but you have to know which ones to go to.
Hi Wayne – Sorry to hear that you had to undergo medical problems recently, but I’m glad that all went well for you!
It’s a very good move…Philippine medical care can be very excellent (or bad), depending on the price level…but for a westerner, the price is usually quite amazing for the level of care one receives. The Philippines is loaded with overqualified medical professionals who struggle to make a decent wage in their own country. This is going to help a lot of people, both foreign and domestic. It will take up a lot of slack because western nations have been cutting back a lot on foreign medical professional immigrants (professional OFW’s) because many of those countries are going broke.
So, if they can just fix the ‘tourist tourist’ issues, they would be ‘rolling in clover’.
Hi rc – Of course, it is important to choose a good hospital for your care, but there are lots of good hospitals in the Philippines too. I agree, this will help international and domestic people!
Hi Bob, I know for myself I needed a new denture and here in the states it was going to run me between 2000-2500 us dollars last year when I was over their I got a new one and it is by far the best denture I’ve ever had and it only cost me 228.00 us dollars, so my flight to the philippines was paid for by the savings on the denture….
Hi Barney – Great outcome! I have heard many similar stories in the past too, especially regarding dental!
I don’t see it sorry. Maybe 100 Americans who are married or have a connection to the Philippines will avail of such a service. The rest of the west have free medical.
Having been in the RP for a long time, my biggest fear is getting sick. I still go to Canada (Home Country) or Thailand for care.
Where is 911, how long would it take an ambulance to show up, would they have enough fuel to get me to the hospital. Hell ask for an Epi Pen anywhere and you will get the strangest looks ever.
I know a top notch Doctor at St Lukes, who is ready to leave to be a RN in Canada as soon as his paperwork happens.
The other thing no one has addressed is the absolute lack of meds post treatment, there are no pain meds available in the RP, in Canada there are over 400 OTC/Script meds in the RP 17. Try getting a Doctor to write a script for pain medication, wont happen.
I find it fascinating from an insider that 19 Doctors are heading to the USA expenses paid to learn how to treat Westerners hmmmmmmmmmmm why not head to BKK and check out Bumrungrad.
How will they promote it with credibility ? Web? I think not……
This is such a small niche market, not tourism. In my humble opinion the best Philippine care has already been exported.
Hi John – Not trying to be argumentative, but your numbers are way off base! I have been working with a dentist in Davao for about 3 years or so and helping her attract foreign patients. In 3 years I have worked with more than 100 patients from abroad, and this is just with ONE dentist! So, to say that “maybe 100 Americans” will use this is just incorrect.
You also say “the rest of the west has free medical”. I am sorry, but this is also incorrect. I have an Australian friend who even wrote an article here on LiP about 3 years ago. He came here to see my dentist and had about $3,000 worth of dental work done here. It would have cost him over $30,000 to do it in Australia. Australia, in my mind is part of the “west” but he would have had to pay $30k out of his pocket to have this work done. He still raves today, 3 years later, about how happy he was with the work.
Ok I will give you dental care may attract visitors as it expensive in the west. Perhaps for the elective procedures people would consider going abroad.
Since I hold 3 passports, French/Canadian/British, I have access to all three systems with additional insurance if required. It works for most of us and the need to travel for medical care simply doesn’t exist. I get the US folks with their system and they may find a good deal and consider it, but when they compare the other countries with a track record in these types of services, what are the chances of the RP garnering any new business?
The DOT promoting this implies validation and some sort of guarantee of services, I for one would not promote this and I don’t know of many in the travel trade that would. Considering the tourism numbers currently well over 95% of the arrivals are Filipinos living abroad you are not going to hit the mainstream travel trade market.
In terms of true tourism you want the people to flock to the country, spend lots and leave, medical tourism is a tiny tiny niche and the resources should be spent elsewhere.
You gotta start somewhere, John. I give the DoT credit for doing that.
When we travel back to Philippines, that’s one of our itenary—ehem? Yes. We actually plan that before we go back to have our teeth checked and filled. To have dentals in Australia is quiet expensive and there are insurance to cover them but from last check it wasn’t that much worth it. I wouldn’t know though.
What I do know is for a filling would set you back about AUD$200.00 or just under. That’s just for one filling. The current exchange rate is about AUD$1.00 – P43.00 which makes a filling to be about P8,600.00 in terms. Last I didn’t have. My ex-wife had her dental checked in Tarlac and from memory costed her 3-5k?? Peso currency That’s including cleaning and few potholes filled. That’s less than AUD$200.00 for sure and more than one service.
Yes medical is free! Free!! If you don’t think of Medicare Levy in your tax return.
Hi JC – Big savings! And, btw… medical is not and never will be free…. as you say yourself, you pay it on your taxes! 😆
Bob
Was that friend of yours from Australia the one that was used in your dentists testimonials. If so she did wonderful work. I can’t believe the complete tranformation she did to his teeth. I will fly down from Manila to have work done by her!
Yeah, that’s the same friend, Randy. He is super happy with the work!
If it weren’t for the expense of the flight to the RP from America, I would definitely agree with you, Bob. Since I don’t have medical insurance, I am always looking for cheaper options. With the cost of a flight to MNL usually $1,200 or so, you would need to have a LOT of dental work done before a trip to the RP was worth it. One thing I haven’t looked into yet is whether my medical FSA will reimburse for foreign-done procedures. If I can be reimbursed for the dental care, then it definitely becomes more attractive, even with the expense of the flight.
Try Costa Rica or Mexico, Brent, they offer dental tourism as well, and they are closer and very inexpensive.
Think of it like this… my friend from Australia, whom I mentioned earlier, got a lot of work done. The work cost him a few thousand dollars here, and would have cost somewhere around $35k in Australia. He saved more than $30,000 on the work. Now, that will buy a lot of airplane tickets!
John – For emergency we have 117 here.. instead of 911 or if using globe just dial 02117 or text PNP 2920
Ah yes, I forgot to address that to John… we have 911 here in Davao!
Hi John, also not wishing to be argumentative, and I take your point that this is not “tourism”per se, but nonetheless, it can bring people and their money (or that of their insurance companies) into the country, and that cannot be a bad thing. Indeed, I see it as being a very positive thing, because good, well qualified doctor and nursess who may otherwise search better paid work overseas may then be able to afford to stay in his home country…and spend his disposable income there…etc. etc. It can only be a good thing to halt the brain drain that the Phils. currently suffers from.
I think that marketing the thing would be easy…you just write to the top 100 healthcare insurance companies with details of your deal…and job done! (That’s the bit that the Philippine authorities will probably mess up).
For the reasons I outlined earlier about not being sure that any malpractice case would ever get anywhere, I would encourage anyone to think very carefully about taking the risk if they were intending to pay with their own money and didn’t have someone who could be sued effectively in mind. Now that should NOT be interpreted as saying that the best Philippine medical practitioners are not up to scratch, but accidents and errors do happen, and how you gonna sue them if they do mess up?
Well I certainly do not mind being argumentative. John, honestly you are way off base here!! In my travels to the Philippines, which began three years ago tomorrow (American time) I have met probably a 100 people myself that have went to the Philippines to have medical procedures done.
I have met probably 25 people alone that went there for dental surgery and at least 15 more that went there for back or hip surgery. I cannot tell you the exact surgeries because I do not know.
But what I do know is that many people already go to the Philippines for these surgeries, but it is small in comparison to Thailand. But once the word really gets out, and cost can be held down, this is going to be really big for the Philippines.
As just one example, and not completely what we are talking about. I need some dental work done. In America this work would cost me thousands. I have already checked and what I need done will cost me less than $500!!! Geez. I get a vacation and have that vacation paid for with my savings!!! Hmmm, sounds like an idea many would like.
Dental fine, it is crazy expensive in the West.
If this type of tourism is the salvation for the RP, why do so many rich Filipinos flock to Hong Kong and Bangkok for medical care?
I don’t think so John, i live here in HK for quite long and most Rich Pinoy still prefer to go back home for their medical treatment, they don’t trust some of the hospital here coz they always screwed up their findings or when it comes to giving medicines , there’s alot of cases here already that pinoys patient giving a wrong medicines that leads them getting killed.Some cases here is that when a pinoy went to hospital for flu treatment, the staff gave her antibiotics w/c is not supposed to give her or something that leads her getting killed . In fact when you asked the majority of Pinoys living here , they’re afraid to have medical treatment here aside from being so expensive , their findings are not always accurate. Everytime i went home i see to it that i visited my dentist in PI before i came back here in HK..
And also John one case here is that when i was admitted to ADVENTIST HOSPITAL here coz i got sick, they didn’t know at first what is wrong w/ me i painfully suffered a lot to the extent that i kept crying so loud coz everytime i moved my body i felt this intense pain so i suddenly saw myself putting me to these large medical equipment for 3 times and they can’t still find what cause me this intense pain, they said i have a kidney problem so they gave me a shot for tetanus or something , i told them it’s impossible coz i don’t eat salty foods , i was confined to the Hospital for 3 days , i told my employer that i don’t want to stay in the hospital for too long and then finally when the other doctor checked on me she gave me just a tablets and w/in my last day lying in bed i felt that the pain is not so intense anymore, then a pinoy nurse told me that i suffered a muscle pain, can you believed that? A Muscle Pain? but they let me undergo w/ lots of x-ray exams and keep telling me that i have a kidney problems… tsk, tsk, tsk, i’m just glad that there’s a pinoy nurse attending me at that time otherwise i will more nervous And if you remember the Hk survivor of the Manila hostage crisis, Jason Cheung who was shot in the head and then brougth back here in HK, even the HK doctors said that the Philippines doctors did a good job of treating Jason and i believed them so now Jason is on the way to the recovery .
I think for me it’s a matter of personal preference when choosing the best quality of medical treatment where ever you are. And by the way, my employer paid almost HK$15k for a muscle pain? it’s less than 80k pesos at that time .
Unless official government statistics support it, I, too, doubt that rich Filipinos from the Philippines “flock” to Hongkong and Bangkok for medical care. Granted that they do, it is hardly an indictment on the capabilities of Filipino doctors and the efficiency of Philippine medical facilities. You realize that many rich Filipinos are of Chinese descent, and those that do go to Hongkong may have varied reasons for doing so, such as a strong affinity for everything genuinely Chinese. As you may have observed on this board alone, opinions based on personal experiences and observations – not hearsay – are running almost 100 percent in favor of Phililppine medicine.
Ricardo, the posts may be in favour of medical treatment in the RP, however since I am in the tourism sector it is my opinion it wont work and I will not support it. I sent off an email to the DOT past and present heads of the Department voicing concerns and liabilities for the travel trade. You can praise the treatment, that is fine we all have a different opinion on health care, just the facts in the news ,Imelda and Erap head off to other countries, does not help medical tourism. There are 1000 things that can be done to address tourism before wasting the few pesos they have in their budgets to attract people who want a root canal and can avail of a 6 month visa.
Hi John – Yeah, some rich Filipinos go abroad for medical care. Why do you think that is? It is because most Filipinos think that anything foreign is better than what is in the Philippines. If it’s foreign it is automatically better. For me, I don’t believe that.
Allow me to throw in some humor to your comment about Erap and Imelda heading off to the States for their medical treatment, John. Well, those two are birds of a different feather. They are what you would call in the vernacular, “palabas”. In the West, we call them, showboats. LOL
John,
why rich filipinos go to other country for their medical needs? pick your choice.
1. Status Symbol – getting a boob job in hong-kong is better than in thailand or philippines, my high school friend just had a breast augmentation in the U.S, and the first thing she told me was it cost her 6K dollars to have it done there, while the same procedure in the philippine could cost a fraction of it. ( i am even interested knowing the price of it, but she kept on bragging it) hahaha
2. “Imelda and Erap head off to other countries?” – many filipinos want these people dead, and it make sense if they choose to go to other countries for their medical needs. – (is that a cyanide in the syringe? lol)
3. Status Symbol.
4. Status Symbol
5. and lastly … status symbol.
Just making a point, can you imagine if Bill Clinton, Brian Mulroney, Margaret Thatcher left their home country for medical treatment? If the DOT is going to waste ink trying to sell medical tourism and its elite and former leaders go abroad in my mind the message sent is quite clear and i would be focusing on true tourism projects not ones that have such a liability for the traveller.
john
I know exactly what you are trying to make us see, don’t get me wrong, but let’s be more realistic, a common person from the west would not look at Imelda or Estrada as to where they got their medical treatment , do you think a simple “john smith” from Mississippi who just wanted to have a hip surgery in the Philippines for less than 2k dollars would care if Imelda got her face lift or Estrada’s knee surgery from the States or hong-kong?
I don’t think a common people from the west would really care as to where those previous leaders and “elitist” got their medical treatment and even if a “commoner” knew it, the impact to change their minds about the philippines is very minimal.
I agree to some degree the guy in Mississppi wont care he just wants to save a couple of bucks. My entire point as the guy in the tourism space, this can be debated until the cows come home regarding this type of tourism, I am totally opposed for the RP to be selling itself as a wellness/medical desitnation, I think tourists would rather have toilet seats at NAIA and there are 1000 projects ahead of Medical Tourism that should be pursued.
It is such a small niche and upon reading a couple of travel insurance policies, which the DOT should have done, in Ontario with a large Filipino population Ontarians are not permitted to buy travel insurance for this type of trip, so they may take the risk of travelling for a procedure but god help them if anything happens whilst abroad. It is the little details that matter.
john,
maybe, opening the door for medical tourist would make NAIA management to install more toilet seats? or perhaps, this could be the beginning of something better for the philippine tourism,
someone has to jump start something isn’t it? and it really doesn’t matter what to use to jumped-start it with.
medical tourism… beer tourism….fiesta tourism,…. diving tourism…. prostitution tourism,…drug tourism…… or what-ever-tourism-DOT-might-come-up-with.
John, with or without the DOT’s 6-months medical tourist visa, it appears medical tourism is already flourishing in the Philippines, see: http://medicaltourismphilippines.rxpinoy.com/ (Note the DOT seal on the page) So, it’s not like the DOT had just conceived the idea of medical tourism, and is just now actively promoting it through its medical tourist visa. In my mind, the 6-months visa is the icing on the cake, so to speak, to make it more appealing for the vacillating tourist to make the decision to seek affordable medical care in the Philippines without having to worry about overstaying in the country.
By this, I don’t think the Philippines is promoting itself solely as a wellness/medical destination – that belongs to others – though I’m positive the country can stand on its own in some specialized fields of medicine like cardiology. What the Philippines does is it promotes itself as an alternative destination to the soaring costs of medical care found in the West by offering relatively inexpensive medical treatment under the care of health professionals, many of whom are educated in the West, and combining the medical with leisure on a tropical island. That’s what’s all about.
What liability for the traveler?
Bob, the “liability for the traveller” John speaks of, is the province of Ontario’s policy of not issuing traveller’s insurance policy to patients/tourists (mostly Filipino Ontarians) heading off to the Philippines on medical tourism because of the perceived risks of malpractice, is that right, John?
Now, back to the Pittsburgh/Jets game…
Ricardo it isnt the Province that sets the standard, it is the insurance company that covers residents who travel outside the Province or Canada. I am not Filipino I was merley stating the fact Ontario is blessed with many Filipinos who may consider going to the RP for procedures and they and others should take extreme caution. The wording is very clear –if you travel abroad for care your are not covered. You have to understand what medical care means in Canada/Oz/UK/France—you have aDoctor you get health care–simple– some would argue the taxes are higher ok whatever, I dont have to worry about going bankrupt over health care. The issue of redress is of course another major issue not to mention only the US and the RP share the same diagnostic numbers. The liability is very clear, travellers cannot avail of outbound insurance to cover the unexpected. So go for a hip replacement and take your chances nothing else happens. In Europe outbound insurance in mandatory so I wouldn’t lie and say I am going to enjoy the beaches—
Dans —I truly hope your tourism ideas are an attempt to raise a chuckle—I personally dont find them funny. There are so many things the DOT could do to promote the country. If medical tourism is the flavour of the month then why not create a Autism/Alzheimers clinic and train staff who can then be offered jobs abroad.
I get the US bias, on the posts-they are looking for a deal.
This type of tourism is so small and will not bear any fruit. I can already see the news that a foreigner got preferred care over a Filipino and it will die.
Hi John – I understand that you are in tourism, and you seemingly are very passionate on this topic. However, in my view you are quite short sighted on this, and I don’t see why. This is virtually a freebie for the DoT, because the things that are needed are already in place. By promoting medical tourism, big money can be brought into the country to take care of other problems, which you have mentioned. Is medical tourism a small thing that can only attract a few people as you suggest? India expects to earn US$2 Billion in 2012 from Medical Tourism. It would seem that more than a few people are going to India for medical tourism, not small numbers as you suggest. Similarly, medical tourism is currently bringing about US$1.3 Billion to Thailand every year. Small money? Hardly.
john,
I did not intend to make the “tourism ideas” as a joke, I am serious when i said, “someone has to jump start something”, for me, trying something out regardless of what the outcome might be, is far more better than someone who done nothing but talk and judged someone’s work with negativity.
John: In fact, aside from the UK, most of Scandinavia, and Canada, most countries in the West do not have universal health care. In fact, many people in those places buy private insurance to cover either procedures not covered by national plans, ungodly wait times for surgeries (I know several people in the UK who regularly travel to India for this reason), or simply because they wish to choose their own physician (In some countries, it may be “free”, but you get who they give you). The countries that have universal health care typically have very high taxation levels to pay for the care. In some places, furthermore, care would be “free” only under certain income levels… You earn more, then you buy insurance.
The problem with healthcare in the US is that it has become so highly politicized and there is so much misinformation floating around that is condensed into 10 second sound bites, the truth is usually buried amongst the crap. One of my closest friends is a surgeon at one of the best hospitals in the country. He is ranked about number 25 in Urology nationwide… Very few as skilled as he. His malpractice insurance is nearly $2MM PREMIUM per year. He spends roughly 80% of his day dealing with drug salespeople, hospital administrators, and insurance people. His practice of 6 surgeons requires a business manager, accountant, office manager, and about 15 office personnel just to deal with the paperwork. That means that only 20% of his time is spent healing patients. No wonder a doctor visit runs over $100 for about 10 minutes….
Is the Philippines medical system perfect? Far from it. However, there are very good hospitals in all of the major cities that will cover procedures that 99% of the sick can use perfectly adequately, and far cheaper than in the West.
As much as I travel, I have been to doctors in the Philippines, Singapore, China, France, Mexico, and India. The Filipino physicians are normally well-trained, and, I can tell you that certain things like bedside manner and genuine concern for their patients is still alive and well here. When our Godson had his heart surgery last year, one of his physicians even stopped by our house to check on him one night on her way home, just to see if he was healing OK… No charge, but she just wanted to be certain. Let me ask you this… Would that EVER happen in the US nowadays? BTW… The heart center has all of the latest equipment and supplies. The staff there were wonderful in getting through a truly life-threatening illness.
Juanito’s pediatrician is another example. How many pediatrician offices are there where you don’t hear kids screaming about getting a jab? His is one. The MD has a humanity that a doctor in the States would never dare nowadays. Things like a comforting smile and holding the hand while giving a vaccination. Things like a hug or handshake “goodbye”.
John, I can vouch for some of your comments on Universal Health Care. I went with one of my UK friends to the dentist and the dentist would only do a certain amount of work under the National Health Service ( NHS ) plan. Also with the waiting lists for surgery and some of the conditions in some medical facilities. More and more people that I know in the UK are buying their own ( private ) insurance . I don’t see how anyone can call Universal Health care ” Free “. If I remember there is a NHC payroll tax on peoples pay checks ( I may be incorrect on that ) but ” somebody or everybody has to pay for it somehow.
To me, USA healthcare has been taken over by the Insurance Companies and I know of some doctors that have chosen early retirement because they can no longer deal with being told how to conduct their practice and methods by the Insurance Companies, the lowered pay they recieve from insurance companies for procedures ( Book Rate ), and then ” waiting ” to get paid.
When the Doctor I had for many years retired, after a couple of years I went to another Doctor for a routine Physical. I felt fine going into the place and when I left I felt like throwing up in the parking lot. Not because of anything to do with the physical but because of being totally discusted . The Doctor himself did next to nothing, instead just referred me to make appointments with about 6 other ” specialists ” when there was nothing wrong. I finally was able to get one of the doctors to tell me how it is. He told me that because of the way the business end of things are done these days ( insurance companies ) A doctor can no longer spend an hour with a patient for a complete physical the way it used to be done. A doctor these days must see 4 to 5 patients per hour ( average ) to stay in business.
I asked this Doctor what if I just pay Cash, regardless of the amount. The Doctor replied once they know I have insurance they couldn’t do that and that the best way to have that done is to go somewhere that they don’t know me, dont tell them you have insurance and pay cash. This Doctor knew exactly what I was taling about when I mentioned a complete physical they way it used to be done and he kind of apologized for the way things have to be done here these days but if they did it the old traditional way they just couldn’t stay in business.
The thought has crossed my mind before, maybe I could get a ” real ” physical exam ( the way they used to be here ) on one of my visits to The Philippines. There is an ISO certified Hospital in Iligan that seems to have quite a reputation. Maybe I’ll see if I can arrange some kind of ” Tour ” of the place on my next visit.
I have read so much about people in The Philippines getting the ” run-a-round ” with many things there when it comes to getting permits, licenses etc. I feel I get the run-a-round here in just going to the doctor(s) , just to get a routine physical exam ! I don’t blame the Doctors I think it is the Insurance Companies !
I’m curious where your godson got his heart surgery. Was it in Northern Luzon? If I move to the PI, as my wife wants us to, I would be living in a small farming community called Gamu, in Isabela province. The nearest major city is about 20 miles away, Ilagan. It is the capital of the province.
Larry: We had to bring him to Manila for the surgery at the Philippine Heart Center. In Gamu, medical facilities are much more provincial, with very serious having to go to Manila or Tuguegarao (Though I think there may be a decent hospital in Santiago or Cauayan… you need to look it up)
I agree there are great doctors and nurses in the Philippines, several of my in-laws included. The bad thing is the pay is so low many doctors end up going to Europe or the USA to work as nurses to get a hefty pay increase.
Hi Tony – Good thing is that if the medical tourism gets big enough, the doctors here can charge a bit higher prices and pick up their income a bit.
Hi Bob, many Filipinos already go back to the Philippines for their medical and dental needs coupled with their vacations. They usually decide which procedure they think can be safely performed their, otherwise they seek medical treatment here locally in the US. A lot of low-income people like to come here in the emergency room for treatment because of the no refuse policy for emergency treatment resulting in some hospital losing money so they increase their charges where they can. But most is borne by the taxpayer and that’s the current problem of the Obamacare.
Related to the tourism, pick up my morning newspaper Washington Post and right their on the travel section, another negative write up from this writer who claimed travel Asia in 24 days (see link below) and summarize his negative stay in bullet-ted items: scammed by a taxi driver, feed dog meat, bad airline experience, bed bugs in hotel., etc.
I’ve watching WAPO travel section for write-up but always seem negative when it comes to PH, even though dog meat are allowed in Thailand, he didn’t compare. I don’t know what kind of travel he was doing, maybe a budget travel, but this article will not help tourism in PH. Nobody had commented on this writers article as its only on today’s Sunday paper. Maybe LIP readers could write a comment on his article and compare experience with him.
Mars
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/21/AR2011012103278.html
Hi Mars – I’m sorry to hear that the WaPO dinged the Philippines on travel again. In many respects the country deserves it, in some respects id does not. But, it often feels like the RP does not get a fair break.
Yep, when I read the article this morning, I don’t know if I should laugh or get annoyed: lol ’cause he said: he got charged double the normal amount but did not elaborate, no meter?; did not like Cebu-Pacific losing his itinerary, who wouldn’t; got feed by a vendor dog meat on the stick-what slummy area of Manila was he surfin’?; got charged $30 dollars for going out of the country twice (based on his map), so normal charge, anyway does other countries charge airport outgoing fees?; got eaten by bed bugs-hey his hometown 4-5 star hotels in Wash DC have bedbugs epidemic-just wonderin what cheap hotel was he staying in Manila. My point is if you are a travel writer for a premier Newspaper, you should be able to write all points of view and have been ready to tackle the unexpected.
Maybe he should have gone to Davao and tried the Durian and some Bulad! Wonder what he would write about that.
There is also a Bed Bug problem in New York City. Theater seats, several well known retail clothing stores have had to close for exterminators to rid the places of bed bugs. It has been speculated that it might be cleaning companies partially responsible for the spread of the bed bugs by carrying the bugs or their eggs in their vacuum cleaners or other equipment from one place to another. This problem has been a bonanza for exterminators, some of whic use specially trained dogs to sniff out the bugs !
Hi Mars – I think that if those things happened to people who read LiP, they would talk about it too. It is just so hard to know what to do, because being ripped off is annoying, and it really does happen here.
There are plenty of taxi drivers who rip off foreigners. It’s not the tourists fault, it’s the driver’s fault, and the fault of the LTO who licenses the driver.
Dog meat is very rare in the Philippines now, and I wonder, how did he know it was dog meat? I don’t think the average person would know… they would likely say that the meat was different from what they are accustomed to, but how would they know it was dog meat?
Bed bugs – as both you and BobNY have said, bed bugs are an epidemic in many parts of the USA too.
All in all, it is the fault of both the Philippines and the traveler, in my mind anyway.
Probably the street vendor was pulling his leg. A BBQ dog meat on a stick and sold on the streets of Manila? Dog meats are not usually cooked that way as far as I know. Wait till he goes to China and see all the insects on cue (lol).
ooops, correction: Washington Post Saturday paper instead Sunday, my bad.
Regarding emergency numbers. From memory if you are using the mobile phone. There is a generic number of #112 which is a far easier number to remember if you are a traveller. What this number does when rang is call the countrie’s emergency number. In Australia they are also trying to incorporate that to land line numbers as currently this #112 number is only available in mobile numbers. I wish I tried that number when I was in Philippines but I didn’t have any emergencies and I didn’t want to hog the line.
Interesting article Bob and a question for you about Dentists there. I am sure they have Novacaine or what ever is used today, is the use of Nitrous Oxide ( Dental gas, laughing gas or what ever you want to call it ) very common ? That is about the only thing that I look forward to when going to the dentist for anything other than a routine cleaning, a Blast of Gas !
My dentist has recently suggested that there are a couple of my teeth that should have crowns put on them although it is not any emergency, at a cost of about $1800 and he does not accept the ( name brand ) insurance I have. I have been using the same dentist for about 30 years and I don’t really want to change. I’d bet the same job there would be a lot less.
Hi Bob – Thanks! Yes, you can have gas when you go to the dentist, if you wish.
Bob,
No matter what D.O.T does to attract tourist, It only need one american media and a travel warning from 3 countries and everything DOT has done will be wasted.
Hi Dan, my point exactly, on the link above. Travel article by a seasoned travel writer read thousand of Americans, who only write negative aspect of the country. I would rather believe what John Miele writes as he travels and experience Asia extensively.
Ha ha… I suppose that is how the world works, dans….
What would a specific medical visa provide that a normal visitor’s visa wouldn’t? Only that a person would save the money on a renewal? 21 days are free already. If you can’t get your procedure done in that time, you can renew for a fee. You are saving thousands of dollars on your medical costs, and somehow you cannot afford the extension fee?
How is the government going to enforce this visa? Proof you had some medical procedure performed? I can see corruption going rampant on this.
Just make the entire visa program easy for anyone wishing to visit. What difference does it make if you are coming to get a tooth filled or to go backpacking in Samar?
The Philippines does have much to offer in the way of tourism, and yes cheaper medical is just one of many, but to single this out and promote it any differently from a regular visitor’s visa is not going to make much difference. Everyone is saying in prior posts that there are many who are coming now for cheaper procedures, so it is not the visa that is the attraction, it is the cheaper procedures.
I think the DOT is trying to fix something that is not broken. If you can allow someone coming for a medical procedure to stay 6 months for free, then why not almost anyone. All visitors spend money.
I can almost bet that most of those coming for medical procedures are married to Filipinas, and are eligible for the Balikbayan visa waiver (1 year totally free stay), the remainder may be coming to visit a girlfriend and as a side benefit may get some medical procedure done while there. I just cannot imagine a guy in Nebraska, with no ties to the Philippines, deciding because he will save a few dollars on the visa to fly to the Philippines without knowing what to expect, and try to find a hospital and surgeon to remove his gallbladder. It just will not happen.
I can’t imagine that there would be a huge increase of people headed to the Philippines for medical procedures all because they would save a few dollars on a visa.
Sorry to reply to my own post, but I decided to do some research on this proposed medical visa.
This article is hard to understand, as most Philippine journalism is, but seems they are already sabotaging themselves. http://www.mb.com.ph/articles/299315/bi-eyes-issuance-medical-visas-tourists
A few quotes:
“Ledesma said this market is currently dominated by Taiwan and Singapore.”
So what makes them believe that those 2 countries will not continue to dominate the market. Just because you offer a special visa, it will not be the deciding factor, it will take far more than that.
“He added that the proposed visa will also help the government earn income from the visa fees and charges.”
Wait, now there will be MORE fees and charges?
“He explained that visa holders are required to post a bond based on the value of their airline tickets to ensure they will not violate the conditions of their stay in the Philippines.”
Yes, this is what people really want. Post a bond with the government to get a special visa, when you can get a normal visitor’s visa without posting any bond.
“The Immigration Act currently allows the extension of tourist or temporary visitor’s visas only to foreigners who come to the Philippines for business or pleasure, Ledesma said.
He said that foreigners are initially allowed to stay for either 21 days or two months, and extended every month up to a maximum of two years. ”
Hmmm, so when on a tourist visa, a foreigner is prohibited from having a medical procedure? So make a special class of visitors (medical) and place even more restrictions on that visa than a normal tourist visa. Brilliant move !!!!
Personally, I think they are making a smart move in the right direction. We are all entitled to our own feelings, though.
You know Bob, it’s sad that a lot of Americans in the USA do not seriously consider Philippine medical tourism or any other 3rd world medical procedures even if they’re US trained specialists because of the bad rap the Filipinos get regarding our medical environment. Lack of sophisticated equipment plus there’s no assurance or insurance if these procedures fail or cause errors. Also, the media in the US still pictures Filipino medical health workers as below average. Remember that Desperate Housewives bruhaha—it leaves a lingering negative image in the American minds …and then comes more news coverages featuring Filipino nurses, though hardworking cannot communicate well, etc. Of course, they’re not true, but Americans won’t come to the Philippines (knowing it’s 3rd world) for medical treatments. I even know somebody who’s Filipino who won’t have her teeth done in the Philippines for periodontitic treatment because of her fear of the medical team here —if ever they commit a mistake, what insurance she will get? Most insurance companies in the US do not cover medical tourism. And I came to meet an American woman, after learning that my cousin is running a facial care center specializing in Botox and cosmetic surgeries here in DAvao, who asked me how much are the expenses. I told her it’s cheaper than in the USA—after 2 days of consideration, she said she won’t come and have her cosmetic procedures here . I think I know why . They’ve heard scary stories about our medical procedures and our inability to attend to our sick and disabled.
What you say is true, bingkee, without a doubt. But, as people start coming for medical care, the good word will spread and eventually overcome the negative thoughts out there!
Bob, India 2 Billion, Thailand 3 Billion yes those are numbers I would want to get a piece of as well. My passion lies in the fact that the RP is not ready. Lack of air seats, heck PR is a schedule B carrier and is banned from flying to Europe. The only non stop flights are on KLM, thats it to tap into the European market. From the US on PR with stops in GUM for refuelling, no first class options, heck Thai Airways give you frequent flyer points for medical tourism with Bumrungrad Hospital, enough for a free trip (domestic) Only 11% of hotels are online in the RP. So making a splash saying we want them is all fine and dandy how will you get them there and where will they stay.
Lack of infrastructre, bad reputation, most people remember the Doctor do the belly operation, bond required for visa, poor tourism rating, lack of redress, the medical web sites are a joke promting the idea, lack of insurance for a traveller, different medical standards (metric vs US system) and warnings by numerous governments make this a low prioirty in my mind, what’s the next idea? train farmers from Saudi in the art of lechon raising ?
When the DOT was busy looking for a logo from other toursim sites they came accross medical tourism and thought this will put us on the map and thousands will flock.
As I have said my passion is tourism and there are 1000 projects that should be put ahead of this, there wasn’t enough thought put into this. I have access to the tourism figures, I will try to remind myslef to look in year and report the numbers.
Hi John – First you said that no Europeans would come for medical procedures, now you say that it won’t work because there are not the proper flights from Europe… well, if Europeans are not going to come, the flights from Europe have no impact on this particular scenario! 😉
That was my point, no thought was put into the entire programme.
I can list 500 reasons why it will fail, and why the DOT is in need of serious input from the industry, we will see in a year how the numbers pan out.
I’ll list my predictions, no more than 100 visa’s will be issued if the visa plan is approved. The surge in numbers reported will be Balikbayans trying to save money on dental care. The Consulates and Embassy’s will have no information about the plan, there will be no change in the current web development from the hospitals or providers, PAL will not be offering any special fares-in the end it wont do a thing in terms of true tourism.
I just set up a reminder in my calendar, however I will be sad knowing I am right and valuable time and energy was wasted.
IMHO, a year is way too soon to check it out. I mean for all we know it may be 8 or 9 months before the visa is available.
Look, it may fail, it may not produce many new visitors…. but, it is action and I believe it is on the right track. You disagree. I have no problem with disagreeing.
Really, more realistic would be to look in 5 years to see if this has played out well or failed.
Hopefully, the situation is not as dire as the picture Lloyd, bingkee, and John paint. My only experience with the medical system there is through my [Filipina] wife’s family. As all you expats probably know, the system, for anyone without a health plan through their employer, is “Pay As You Go!” And even those with insurance are often unable to pay the copays and treatments not included in their plan. For example, one of my sister in laws had a plan that covered her surgery for breast cancer, but we learned late at night here at a later date that they would NOT administer the prescribed chemo-therapy drugs until they were paid for! So, her and her family had to sit in a waiting room while we got the money to them through MoneyGram. (Ironically, the drugs turned out to be manufactured in the US!)
I understand that the costs there are MUCH MUCH lower than in the US, but for many ordinary Filipinos, especially “Self Employed” ones in the provinces, it is STILL unaffordable.
SO, what will happen if “Medical Tourism” takes off? There will be no shortage of nurses, but doctors and facilities are another matter. How could the success of this program, combined with the economic laws of supply and demand, do anything but push the costs of medical care out of the reach of even more millions of Filipinos?
Hi James – Most of the poor now have PhilHealth coverage, so at least that helps. There is poverty worldwide and people who cannot afford health care, it is here in the Philippines too. I don’t know what the answer is for that, do you?
MindanaoBob
ha ha the usa the most closed country in the world ????? Well that is if you do it the correct way ,,,, However if your a Mexican you can just sneak across ,free , food , free loans on house ( wait that wrecked our banking , Ninja loans ) free education . My god , But A pinoy wants to come and its like pulling teeth from a lion that is awake ! not to mention the free hospital stays for the Illegals !
Also I’m here for medical reasons and to get married , Problem is the Average Pinoy has a image of white people as always being Rich , And will charge Crazy prices for services ,I had one dentists tell me oh sir 15k peso for a root Canal … Ha Ha My wife goes with me , umm 4k peso only , So the pinoy hurt themselves with the this world mentality ….. Take take all they can , That Smile has another meaning once you get pass the hello sir may i help !