Social Security Benefits - Moving to Philippines - How are you affected ?
A Discussion about recent changes to relationship issues affecting British passport holders
Hello everyone, Bob has asked me to write a post today as it is Saturday, I thought I would start by writing something that I feel I know about, and although is more directed at British passport holders, I hope its of interest to others to, especially as things change so quickly when it comes to whats happening not only in the British Embassy in the Philippines, but also about certain changes in family issues such as children for those who are resident in the Philippines.
Firstly are you aware of recent changes regarding the Fathering of children by British passport holders with Filipino citizens ? Are you aware of recent changes to heridtary citizenship claims for those children who were born to British Fathers, but the Mother is Filipino, where they are not married ?
Are you aware of the new requirements for those who have settled in the Philippines should they ever wish to return to the UK ? (changes affecting your partners).
Firstly, there has been a recent amendment to the laws governing children born overseas especially affecting British expatriates who are in relationships with Filipino citizens, under the old law, a woman who lived in a foreign country, who gave birth to a child, where the Father was a foreign citizen would automatically have the right to register her child at the local British Embassy or British Consulate, and they did not have to be married, she would simply present a local birth certificate and register the childs claim to British citizenship.
With recent amendments, the government thought that this was unfair to British Fathers, as the law prohibited any child of an unmarried relationship with a Filipino from the childs claim to citizenship, however, that has now changed, to redress this unfair law, from 1st April 2007, any child born to a British Citizen Father, where the Mother is a Filipino, has the right to claim citizenship through the Father, the process is simple, the British passport holder would visit the British Embassy in Manila, or the British Consulate Cebu, and apply to have the child registered as a British Citizen, the requirements are simple, a local birth certificate on NSO Security paper, with the Filipino mother in attendance, they will file an application at the embassy or consulate, the Father signs a consular affidavit that he is the Father, and child will then be registered, this is a major step foward because in the past, the parents would have to produce a NSO Marriage contract for the child to state a claim to citizenship.
British citizenship can be acquired by the child as a matter of heridtary claim through the Father, but his Filipino partner of course will remain a Filipino citizen, the only way she may claim citizenship is by naturalization and to do that, the lady must have been in the UK for 3 years, and been granted indefinate leave to remain, this of course would not be the case if the relationship is in the Philippines.
For those British Citizen passport holders who permanently reside in foreign countries, they have to take stock of their personal situations when it comes to social security benefits, this has recently caused anger when they return say after 2 years to find they are not considered a UK resident (hence the term foreigner in my own country).
Very often, if an expatriate returns home to UK, he finds that he is not able to be eligible for social security, I think this has happened to one of our friends here on this blog, its not a nice feeling, but it is something that expats, and readers of this blog need to take seriously, and I think Bob has written a post before about not burning your bridges with your home country, until you have thought out your plan properly, the UK Social security system provides a safety net only, but it is a credible safety net, expatriates should consider carefully and take advice from the Department of Social Security about their position should they leave the United Kingdom for any length of time.
It may be that some of our readers leave for the Philippines and do not give any thought to their position should they need to return for any reason, it is something that needs consideration, and I hope that there will be some comments on this subject.
Pete
Thanks for this and as a brit currently on the wind down to permanent exile to davao this is very interesting for me. to be honest being a bit weary of our system over here i am going for a low key exit, but your thoughts here are interesting and i think your advice about looking at the DSS aspects of my exit is good avice and i think i will take it.
Another example of how useful this blog is. Bob has provided me with loads of tips through this site and these practical issues have helped me loads in practical and cultural issues.
I linked through to your site the other day and found that very interesting too Pete…………..thanks again for this
Hi Pete - I’d like to have you clarify for me…. in the USA, Social Security is basically a government retirement program. You don’t get Social Security until you are at least 62, most often 65, and there is talk of raising it to 68 or 70. Upon reading what you wrote, I feel that Social Security in Britain is more like what we could call welfare, where the government will give you support when it is needed, regardless of age. For us, Social Security is paid for by the beneficiary during their younger years while they are working. Can you explain a little more about what British “social security” is?
Pete,
Welcome to the blog. Is UK benifits like Canadian? Canadians that live in Florida stay only for 5 months because after 6 months they lose their benifits.
Hi Everyone, thank you for the replies, firstly Bob asked me to clarify our social security system, which I am happy to do, Bruce asked about a comparison with Canada, and Rick found it interesting as he is about to leave for Philippines, firstly, the UK social security system encompasses many facets of social spending, and as Bob has quite rightly pointed out, it is effectively the state welfare service, social security in UK when the idea was first envisaged was designed as a purely safety net for the jobless or those made redundant.
However over the years the system has been reformed and reformed, there are 2 main areas of social security, fierstly Non means tested benefits, and secondly, means tested benefits, Non means tested benefits are those benefits where income is not taken into account, they are often referred to as “Universal state benefits” a good example of this, and for those Brits who read this blog, will recognize it as Child benefit, this is a paticularly controversial benefit, since the Duke of Westminster is entitled to it for his children, and he is one of the richest men in the country, owning most of London’s mayfair district, you might wonder why he gets it, right down to the poorest families, the reason is simple, it is a non means tested universal benefit.
Another non means tested benefit, is Incapacity benefit, for people who cannot work because of an incapacitation, and Disability Living allowance, there has been much controversy about these benefits, since they can be so lucrative, the benefits I want to concentrate on, are those that might affect British Citizens who leave for the Philippines and then wish to return at some stage in the future, lets be practical, for one reason or another, It may not work out ?
I know of one case right now, where a British guy has written to me, saying he has been in Philippines for 8 months and his money has run out, his ideas have failed and he is coming back in September, he has been let down by the promise of a job, and it has not materialized, he could find he may not be able to get any job seekers allowance which is a contribution based benefit which again is non means tested, the benefit is based on the number of national insurance contributions that person has paid into the system, but it is dependant on residency also.
So lets clarify this point, Natiional insurance contributions pay for your state pension on retirement, the current age for men is 65 and for women 60, although the government is seeking to raise the ages to 70 for men and 65 for women, so as in the U.S.A. which Bob has told us about, social security is for retirees, here it is for all age groups, according to the benefit claimed, some say there are too many benefits, but the UK is still a socialized system, including of course the National Health Service, free medical care at the point of demand.
Back to what I was talking about, if it does not work out, and the expat needs to return home, providing he or she gets into a job in record time, they may find they need access to social security, if they do not qualify for job seekers allowance, which is only payable for 6 months, and the chances are they will not qualify, they may seek to claim Income Support, and Council tax benefit, and also housing benefit if they rent their home, Income support is a means tested benefit, which is paid to people who cannot find a job, and are actively seeking work, if the person has a family, i.e. wife and children, they will all qualify on one claim, however, if the claimant cannot explain absences from the job market, i.e. been out of the country, they may find they are not entitled to claim public funds, or the right terminology is “No recourse to Public funds” at this moment in time, one of the conditions of my wifes UK Residency visa that she has no claim to means tested public funds, and that will continue for only 24 months, however interestingly, she may claim non means tested job seekers allowance should she be out of work, this is because she has contributed to the social security system in the form of National Insurance contributions, back to our expats, if they return after some time out of the country, they will be politely but firmly told, they do not qualify, that is why I am advising anyone going to the Philippines to do one of two things, firstly visit their local Department for Social Security office and seek advice about their position on this issue.
And secondly, write to the Department for Work and Pensions, addresses can be googled, and ask for a pension contribution statement, this will tell them, how many qualifying years they have, and also, how many qualifying years they need to make up, to qualify for the basic state pension on retirement.
This is paticularly important, because the Department for Work and Pensions has an overseas payment bureau, and they will pay your pension abroad, if you live in the Philippines, but if you stop contributing, you can still make voluntary contributions to make up your years, if you choose to rely on your pension for retirement income.
Unlike in the 80’s and 90’s when SERPs was available, State earnings related pension scheme, this has been replaced by the 2nd state pension scheme, whereby a 2nd pension can be obtained on your last 25 years earnings, its like a top up to the basic state pension, some people have opted out of this, and put their 2nd state pension contributions into a stakeholder pension, this was set up by government, to prevent insurance companies from levying large charges on contributions, however growth rates have not been fantastic, but it does enhance your basic pension on retirement.
I hope that sets out the case for checking your position before you embark for a life in the Philippines, and its good to know how you will be affected should you wish to return, at least, if its bad news, its better to know it befor eyou go, and if you are away too long, you will be classed as non resident.
Hi Pete - Wow, this is interesting. I see some parallels between your system and our system in the USA. Different names for things, but similar benefits and such. I do have one more question for you. If a person moves to the Philippines and becomes ineligible for benefits, then returns to the UK and goes to work, how long will he have to work before he again becomes eligible for benefits?
Thanks Pete for the great info and also to Bob for bringing up intersting questions.
I also know that Australia reduces or eliminates benfits for some of their citizens after prolonged stays overseas, so all should check, for sure, before they decide to “make the move”.
On the US side many I have talked to moving to or thinking about moving to the Philippine do not seem to realize there are many differnt Social Security benefits … so can follow you overseas and some can not. The SS Administration has an excellent website, http://www.ssa.gov , they even have some specific booklets you can download for living overseas … I suggest everyone who is thinking about a move get the word from the “horse’s mouth” in their own country … there is a_lot_ of semi-unreliable info floating around.
With regard to Pete’s first item … it sounds like the UK is adopting rules very similar to the US regarding overseas-born children. US fathers may be asked to prove they were present in the Philippines during the time of conception of the child and/or may also have to undergo DNA testing to prove the baby’s paternity … it’s become much more strict that it used to be.
Hi Dave - After reading your comment, I thought I should point out that I also know that New Zealand has policies that affect people living overseas. Their government sponsored retirement benefit is cut in half for people living outside New Zealand.
Hi everyone, I just changed the title to this post, as it seems its more in line with what people are talking about, plus it can then appeal to readers of all nationalities on the blog, apart from the Children issue which is worth knowing about especially if you are in that situation, the social security situation does affect everyone of us, Bob asked about the period of abscence, under the UK system of course everyone has a national insurance number, similar to social security number, if you are absent from UK because you are living abroad, you become known as “Habitually non resident”.
Being habitutally non resident means that on your return, you may be entitled to certain types of benefits based on your contributions during the last 24 months, for example if you are in an EEA country with a recriprocal agreement, such as France, Germany, Italy, Belgium, Netherlands, etc, then your contributions to their social security systems are accepted as being the same as in your home country, therefore, you would receive same benefits as though you had actually lived in your home country, simple isnt it ?
What about the Philippines ? although for UK readers there is in place a social security agreement between the two governments, having read the agreement it only deals with those who are sent to Philippines to work by uk companies, and how contributions are paid, what it does say, is that those who leave the UK for a life in the Philippines, and then return, they must be habitutally resident in the UK for 26 weeks prior to any claim for either job seekers allowance - based on contributions over last 24 months, and means tested benefits, such as Income support, Disability living allowance, incapacity benefit, those types of benefits, and council tax benefit, housing allowance.
What this tells me, and critically ! more to the point, if you depart for a life in Philippines, and it does not work out, if you have been out of country for more than 26 weeks, you are counted as non resident, in other words, it was not a long holiday ! then you have effectively burned your social security bridge, to put back your bridge, you would have to come back reside for at least 26 weeks, and then it would be restored. I hope that helps out.
Hi Pete,when I leave the UK for Phills im not going to burn bridges,im going to blow them up one by one,and get the hell out of this sinking island.lol
Hi John - So, let me just clarify…. you are kind of thinking about leaving the UK, but are rather undecided as of yet. Would that be correct?
Hi Bob,my mind is made up mate.I have a wonderful woman,we have some land,we have a business that she runs.My job is under contract in the UK so I cant just leave,as much as I want too.But for the time being I shall just have to put up with being a tourist in phills untill the big day comes
I am UK born and at present work in saudi Arabia but have decided to live in davao at the end of my contract..like most people i have concerns over requirements needed to get a residency visa.
I Do not want to relocate there and find that the red tape takes forever and a day to sort out.I can just about find my birth cert…
Ive lived outside UK for 6 years in saudi and last year I sold my UK house and pretty much decided that I would not be returning to UK ever.
I have a partner in davao and my intention is to get married in the future.
My question is what are the requirements to obtain a retirement visa for Davao and timeframe for processing application.Plus can I apply whilst still in Saudi rather than wait until I reside there?
Is it benificial to get married then apply for residency or can I simply apply for residency and get married at a later date.
Hi David - It is much more difficult to get Permanent Residence before you get married. Once you marry a local person, then the Permanent Residence is no problem at all. That being said, it is also much easier to get the Permanent Residence abroad, rather than here in the Philippines. If you apply here, it can take one to two years to receive the Permanent Visa. When I applied in the USA, it only took a few days.