I recently published a book on the Amazon Kindle called Expat Answerman: Understanding Philippine Culture. A fellow named Jeff purchased the book, and enjoyed it, but found that he had a cultural question that was not covered in the book, so he contacted me and asked! I decided to make a podcast out out of Jeff’s question, because I believe it is very important for expats to learn about the culture of the country where they live. In fact it is probably one of the most important things you need to do, in my view, when you move to a new country.
There has been a lot of talk on this site over the years about expats who complain a lot, or who seem to have a terrible life here. They just don’t seem to like living here at all. From my observation, I feel that the biggest reason for this unhappiness is that these expats have not taken the time necessary to understand the culture of their new country. When you don’t understand how things work, or more importantly, why they work in a certain way, it can be very frustrating. Because you have a total lack of understanding of the situation, it is nearly impossible to know how you can fix the situation, or how you can make yourself happy living in the Philippines.
So many people move here thinking that they are coming to paradise, and everything is going to be perfect here. It just is not so. There are problems everywhere. There are pressures and stress no matter where you live. Learning about the culture of the Philippines is a way that you can at least remove one thing from that list of stresses that you will experience in your new home.
Listen in, hopefully you will learn something, or perhaps you have information based on your experience, and you can share that with other readers and listeners! You would be most welcome to do so!
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Thanks again for listening, everybody!
Excellent. And not only the culture but the history which, even Filipinos themselves, know but a little bit. So much to learn!
Excellent. And not only the culture but the history which, even Filipinos themselves, know but a little bit. So much to learn!
That is so true, Denzil Browne, the amount of education on history topics here is very limited. I often feel that I know more about Philippine history than most Filipinos do. Strange.
Hello. As a Filipino, I have never heard of this particular cultural nuance. But there are general rules that apply.
As Bob has said, just leaving the table without excusing your self is considered rude in any culture. It may give the impression that you don’t like their company. Filipinos enjoy conversation during meal times, because it is a time for people to be together, especially if it’s a salo-salo.
Leaving the table may put pressure on the people still eating because they would want to attend to you if you’re a guest. Remember the hospitality factor?
It’s OK to leave IF the people at the table are your family (even if you’re the foreigner part of the family) or friends or people you really know, but it’s still a good habit to excuse your self.
What if you really have to eat and run? Just explain the situation and apologize, and wait for the people to excuse you. Filipinos will understand, more so if you’re a foreigner. Filipinos are generally forgiving when foreigners are unfamiliar with the cultural nuances because they want to be as hospitable as possible to guests.
Norman – It is really great and important to get the local perspective on this. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
There are way many aspects to Pinoy “culture”. Here’s one you didn’t mention but perhaps should, how Pinoy “culture” dictates money and finances absolutely must be handled for proper adherence.
When it comes to the husband’s income, *every* filipina consistently tells us that the husband must give 90% of his total income to the wife to “manage” – after all, the husband naturally fully trusts and loves the wife.
The husband may well naturally fully trust and loves his wife, but what happens when the husband gives the wife all that he has earned and saved over his entire lifetime, all his retirement capital, all his family inheritance, all he was able to additionally borrow to give to the wife, and all he can earn on a daily basis in preference to paying interest on the wife’s debts for which the husband is of course responsible. The husband loves and totally trusts the wife and gives her 100%+ ongoing. Then, after parting with 100%+ of everything, the husband must still additionally find some magic way to pay the rent, electricity, DSL, load for the wife, food for the family especially the latest baby, living hand-to-mouth daily and trying to nicely fend off the wife’s ongoing daily instance he provide yet more now-nonexistent and non-obtainable mega-money.
That’s a Philippine “culture” item that should theoretically be perfect but in practice can easily and often does lead to bankruptcy. Of course, you never hear from those bankrupted by their wives here.
Something you might want to mention in your podcasts and books.
Hi Ed – You stress that “every” Filipina says this… I have been married to my wife, who is Filipina, for 25 years. She has never told me that. Your experience is not the same as mine. I would say that things are not as universal as you say they are.
Yes Bob, all Pinays have always stressed that point being paramount as the foundation for any serious relationship, beyond “love” and certainly transcending marriage, even for mere co-habitation. Bob, you’re not aware of this particular Pinoy “culture”? Perhaps that’s why you didn’t mention it?
I’m very surprised you’re not aware of it.
Ed, you are simply wrong, my friend. When you say “ALL” Pinays stress this. My wife has never said that. I am aware that this is said by SOME Filipinas, but when you say “ALL” then it is very easy to say that you are incorrect. Even if only one Pinay does not stress that then you are incorrect. My wife does not stress that and has never even mentioned it to me, so not “ALL” pinays stress it.
Bob, I was quite clear when I wrote that in my experience over many years that all Pinayas have clearly stated that to me in the context of a serious relationship. That you may not have experienced the same doesn’t detract from the cultural reality which was the contextual “cultural” point. Perhaps your experience was to your exclusive benefit more limited. Ignorance of the reality I advise, when you’re offering public advice in full cognizance of this isn’t something you or any reader should ignore. It behooves mentioning so that others can be aware and more importantly further aware of the serious repercussions in a ‘normal cultural Pinoy relationship’. Pinoy “culture” may well bankrupt you if your wife isn’t prudent and you love an trust her. You are obligated to trust your wife ot 90% of whatever you can manage, and if you love her you will trust her 100%. And then suffer 100%+all_reservers if you trusted her wrong.
I respect your right to ignore this “cultural” issue, but to the benefit of all, should this not be noted and discussed appropriately. Here. ??
Hi Ed – Sure, it can be discussed here! I never said it could not. What I have said is that I am not the right person to discuss it, because I have not experienced that cultural element. Since you have a lot of expertise on it, I invited you to discuss it. You said it should be part of a podcast, so I clearly said that if you wish to make a podcast, I will gladly publish it here. If you want me to be the person to discuss it, since I know nothing about it, my discussion would likely be pretty limited, whereas you say that you have a great deal of expertise, thus you would be the man to cover it, di ba?
Hi Bob,
You are completely right, but you will not be able to convince Ed. My wife is not like his wives/girlfriends and my wife’s friends who are married to foreigners are not like that either. I know some are like Ed says, but certainly not all and I personally do not feel it is more than half. All I know is that I am happy with my relationship with my Filipina wife, who does not demand 90% of our income and the people I know mostly are too.
Hi Jay – Thanks for your support. Yep, in 25 years of marriage I have never experienced this “give me 90% of your money” thing. Also, in living here for 10 years, I have heard of it, but only rarely. I think in many ways it depends on what type of lady you get together with. I don’t know Ed or his wife, but I suspect that they are different types of people than Feyma and I are.
Bob, I doubt that you and I are all that different personally. I gather that you, as I … we love our wives and kids and will do anything and everything we can to support them in every way possible and within our means. You can tell me if I’m wrong about that.
Our wives are however somewhat different in their daily expectations.
Forgive me if I mis-attribute, but I vaguely recall that you mentioned that you met your wife in the US where she had spent some considerable time and later emigrated to the Philippines. In my case, I first met my wife at her place of employment (a resort) in Luzon where I was living at the time and she was employed there at the time. She was the only one who was “NOT AVAILABLE’ in case anyone has any misconceptions; I got to know her somewhat subsequently over a considerable period of time. She has not have the benefit of living abroad and hence has had an extremely expensive learning curve much to our and our kids mutual detriment. That’s life, something people should be aware just might happen. All Pinays are not the same even if they’re good people who just need to (expensively) learn a lot.
I met my wife in Cebu City. We went to her home and General Santos City and married there. After going through the visa process, my wife came to the States where we lived for 10 years, then moved to the Philippines.
Bob, I mentioned it precisely and only because you posted that you were doing a podcast on Philippine culture, and the issue was always presented to me as being an intrinsic part of Philippine culture. Perhaps it’s a regional cultural custom, I don’t know, but I heard it from enough from different regions that it seemed to be broadly accepted. At the time, those who mentioned it to me were mostly from Negros and Luzon; it was before I met my wife who is from central Mindanao. Hopefully that clears up the ‘why’ I mentioned it, since if you were going to discuss Philippine culture, it would have been pertinent. Certainly it’s your progative to choose *which* aspects of Philippine culture you want to discuss at any point.
In my case, I don’t do “podcasts”, that’s your purview. I’ll however be happy to answer anyone in your written forum to the minimal extent of my knowledge. Most of my discussions with Pinoys on this were about a decade ago, so I don’t have any current info on the 90% rule. I do have a bit of subsequent experience on the 100%+ reality though.
Ed, I am begging you.. can we please just move on? Your point has been made. I feel that it is very incorrect. You stand on one side and I stand on the other… let’s just agree to disagree and move on.
Sure, works for me as long as nothing subsequently shows up requiring a response. I would have been happy to drop the topic earlier but there was a lot to answer. I never expected this to be protracted beyond my first mention.
Hello Bob,
Maybe we’re both lucky.
My Pinay wife happily accepts the fact that i’m the one who manages our money.
Whenever she needs something i’m happy to give her, whenever her family needs something i’m happy to help but i am the one who knows and says if we can afford “x” or not.
There is an interesting side effect in this: when a family member asks for help, being well known that the request will be forwarded to me and i’ll decide on it, there is less pressure on her than on other Pinays i know who manage their own budget.
Hi LB – Great to hear, it sounds like your experience and mine match up pretty well.
Bob, you comment: “You stress that “every” Filipina says this”. True.
To be more precise, it’s only every Filipina who I’ve been in a serious relationship with or with whom at arms-length even cordially discussed what a normal proper Pinoy male/female relationship would normally be. That’s 100$ of those that matter plus all ever engaged in such discourse.
Hence my suggestion that you might want to consider and mention that in your podcast on “cultural” issues, given that this has been totally constantly represented as being absolutely inherent as part of true Philippine”culture”.
Ed, I promise that I do just fine in choosing what topics I wish to discuss on my podcast. If you would like to produce a podcast about this financial issue, I would welcome you to do so and you could submit as a guest podcast. If it is of good quality, I would be happy to publish it for you. Just let me know.
Take care.
^Dude what have you been smokin’? Do you even understand English? Back off already.
I don’t smoke *anything*.
My comments were clearly what many Pinoys related to me, whether you like it or now. Now, as Bob requested, I’ll let it rest if provided that option.
Bob
I’m with you on this. My wife has never asked me for money other than necessities and even asks if it is ok to withdraw money from an ATM.
Women taking the pay packet used to be common in mining villages and factory towns years ago but that was mainly to ensure that the brewery didn’t capture it instead.
Cheers
AJ UK
Hi AJ – Thanks for sharing that. So far, from those who have chimed in, it would seem that my experience in this realm is quite common. So much for the claim that “EVERY” Filipina demands 90%….
Bob, one might have thought you’d pick up on the context that it was every Filipina who mentioned it to _me_ – and in several cases with their husbands and other male Pinoys as well. Perhaps you quite surprisingly never had such conversations and thus you wouldn’t know. I mentioned it to you because it was always presented to me literally and precisely as part of “Philippine culture”, hence my suggestion that you include it in your discussion of “Philippine culture”. Obviously the choice is always yours and no sight intended in any way by my contextual suggestion.
Is there any reason why we have to revisit this over and over again, Ed? So far, every person who has commented on your assertion has backed up what I said, not what you said. Why can’t we just let it rest?
Bob, you posted; I’m just answering you.
Hi Bob –
The exact quote of Jeff’s inquiry was: “I am told that it is bad manners to leave someone’s home while someone is still eating a meal.”
There are some details left unsaid. Jeff did not say he was an invited guest, or that he participated in the meal, and wanted to leave while people were still eating.
He also did not say that he chanced a visit while people were in the midst of a meal. What is clear is that Jeff’s relatives insisted that he followed “this”, meaning, not “to leave someone’s home while someone is still eating a meal.”
From what I can gather in Jeff’s sentence, it could very well be a question about Filipino superstitious belief, which is cultural in itself, rather than a cultural question on Filipino standards of good manners and etiquette.
According to one Filipino superstition, “Guests should not open the door while the family is eating because that family’s good fortune will fly out the door”.
http://www.filipiknow.net/filipino-superstitions/
Jeff’s question was unclear, so I interpreted it as best I could. Thanks for adding your interpretation.
Hi Bob,
I find the dining rules interesting in Filipino culture and I think you make a great point about regional differences. At Mama’s house in Bohol her table seats at most 8 people. At the evening meal when I am present about 20 people usually eat, so there are three shifts. I and our boys always eat in the first shift. Mama usually eats with us. My wife sometimes eats with us and sometimes eats the second shift with her siblings. The third shift is nieces and nephews.
One evening the local parish priest was a guest and he ate first with only our boys and I. I wanted Mama and my wife to eat with us, but they would not. Our two boys finished quickly and left the dining area. The priest and I finished eating at about the same time. I stood up after a few minutes of conversation and was hoping ht priest would get the hint that we needed to leave the table, because no one else was going to eat until we left. It seemed like the priest took a long time to get up. I tried to not act annoyed, but I king of was.
Enjoyed listening to the podcast. I made my first comment based on Ed’s comment without listening to the podcast. Ed has tried to tell me what to write about as well and seems to not get that his experience may not be the same as what other people have.
Hi Jay – That “shift eating” sounds just like I experienced at Feyma’s family home when her parents were still alive too. When Feyma and I would be here to visit from the States, we would always eat in shifts for lunch and dinner, and as I recall it was 3 shifts, maybe even 4 shifts at times! I always felt so guilty eating in that first shift, like I was more important than the others. And, as you point out so correctly, nobody was going to touch a bit of food until it was time for their shift to eat, and the prior shift had cleared the table and eaten their full. I always tried to limit what I ate to make sure that the later shifts would have plenty of food left so they could enjoy the meal too!
It’s been a long time since I experienced that… thanks for bringing back the memories.
Basically same here. Plus anyone wanting “seconds”waits until the last shift has eaten to see if there’s anything left. When food is scarce it’s always proper to leave food for the next “shift”.
I typically also try to ensure the wife and kids get food before anyone else. Wife and kids come first, then extended family, guests, and katulong. Hopefully no one goes hungry. As provider, we are last in line, but they leave you some food too. One of many good things in Pinoy culture.
Jay, I don’t recall ever “telling” you what to write. You’re welcome to provide evidence.
In Bob’s case I tried to make a polite suggestion on a topic I was repeatedly told by many Pinoys as being part of Philippine culture, since Bob’s topic was precisely Philippine culture, along with relevant supporting commentary. I obviously respect Bob’s right to include or exclude. I suggested in good faith for the benefit of all readers. Absolutely, we all have different experiences and inputs. Presenting what we’ve respectively learned, good or not, is the whole point of a forum. One might reasonably presume this isn’t just a totally “feel good” place, unlike real life.