Last week in this column we had a few comments regarding age. That got me thinking a little about age and how it often relates to life here in the Philippines. If you aren’t familiar with the culture and conventions of the Philippines, it’s no secret you will have some getting “used to” to do.
One area you’ll find very much different here are some distinct differences in attitudes and even rules about age … as well as some other human attributes. Just as with the ongoing discussion on my own blog, PhilFAQS and Bob’s column recently on the “they all look alike to me” issue, there are a lot of other things here in the Philippines that will immediately fail the current US Politically Correct test.
I’m 63 years old, according to the calendar. Most of the time, though, I feel about 16. (this happens especially when I get to thinking about what I want to do when I grow up ;-)) Sometimes a little older, but God has blessed me with good health and I don’t feel old at all. There is a current view held by some that 60 is the new 40. Don’t know if I would buy into that completely but I certainly don’t feel any older than I did when I was 40 … except perhaps when climbing stairs.
In the US there are very few things I can’t do at 63 that I couldn’t do at 23. Enlist in the armed services or join a police or fire department with legally mandated retirement ages are a few of a very small list. In fact, Congress recently changed the law so that I could even be a scheduled airline pilot for a few more years … when I was in the Federal Service I had a number of workmates over the years in their 70’s One fellow when I was working in Japan who was held in some reverence by his Japanese staff members because he had worked with General MacArthur in the Dai-Ichi Building in Tokyo back in1945 … he finally retired, of his own free will, at a ripe old age of 86.
It’s not that way here in the Philippines. If, for example, I decided to buy a home and went for bank financing, guess what? Too old. Almost all long-term consumer credit requires the applicant to be under 60. Follow up on a help-wanted job in the newspaper that looks interesting? Might as well save my time and theirs … age limits, typically below 30 or 35 are attached to virtually every help wanted ad.
Not long ago I noted an ad in the window of a Jollibee at an NLEX rest stop. “Entry level cleaning person needed. Must have for year college degree, experience and preferably be female, attractive and under 24.” This was a job, undoubtedly at about $10 USD per day. 6 days a week, swinging a mop and wielding a toilet brush in the rest rooms. All you attractive younger ladies reading this are free to send me your contact details, I’ll put you in touch 😉 But don’t forget that 4 year diploma you worked so hard to earn, you’ll need that too, in addition to the blessings of youth.
Most health insurance companies stop providing coverage here at 65 also … kind of one of those Catch 22’s in my book. Unless you get ‘tagged’ by something serious at a young age you don’t really need health insurance all that much until you’re past 65 or so … exactly when you can’t have it here.
So indeed, there are some age difference things to get used to. But there’s always a plus side. No ne cares if you send a 10 or 12 year old to the store to buy ciggies or beer or get a prescription filled. Very convenient in that way. To paraphrase Tine Turner, “What’s age got to do with it”?
It’s a different life here, that gets proven nearly every day … at least to me … but after all, I’m old.
Very intereting article. Obviously the Philippines hasn't been infected with the anti-age discrimination lawsuits that plague us here in the states.
Hi Dave,Interesting post,backs up my knowledge of Phil's also.It is very restricting,but with a large labour pool,they can easily be very selective.Take Sales girls in Malls for example,must be under 25,college degree,good understanding of english language,but only a 6 month contract.Would never be tolerated in the West,the law suits would start to fly.I do however enjoy the great respect shown to us senior citizens in Phil's,regards Chas.
@David S.: Correct. Not that there is any shortage of lawyers here though, or even separate, competing court systems. But there are few laws covering 'protected groups'. OTOH, as a man already t4chnically a senior citizen, I feel as if I am treated better and not shunted aside as in the US. Maybe it's becuase there's no Medicare either, so I have something else to think about every day 😉
@CHAS: You hit the nail on the head regarding the six month contract labor, Chas. One thing that seems really byzantine to me … laws to protect workers here in the Philippines … in some labor categories, are more liberal and worker protective than in the US … the Philippines is not a 'right to hire, right to fire' as most US states can operate … a long-term employee gets fired s/he can take the case to court if unjustified … the Catch 22 is, nobody ever getspast the 6 month 'permanent employee' gate.
Realistically, people do 'cross the bar' every day, but it is certainly a different environment.
Hi Dave. I'm aware of the age bias for jobs in the Philippines. I'm 56 (but "look" about 43, for what it's worth). Two questions if I could ask you:
1. If a job ad doesn't mention a maximum age, then do you think I might still have a chance if I apply? (or have they just forgotten to insert the obliigatory maximum age of 35?)
2. For supervisory & management roles in IT & Call Center industries, would the maximum age be more flexible (higher) or would it still be around 35?
Thanks.
@Brian C: Hello Brian. Actually I have seen the age restrictions seemingly ease even in the past few years. Certainly jobs with more education/expereince requirementys are more flexible than the 'attractive girl, single, under 25' type.
Mor eimportnat, though is the overall pay/job situation. Do you have agood understanding of what senior IT people make here? I know one thing … if I had to get a job, I would be on the next plane back to the US. There are exceptions that prove every rule, but by and large those Call center jobs are here for one reason … to save a fortune on labor costs and benefits.
You can certainly earn a living in the Philippines … Bob even sells books about it ;-). But coming to the Philippines at age 56 to get a j*o*b? Frankly, I'd rather work in CostCo. The top level jobs here, the ones that you will never see advertised on the street are typically filled by the parent companies from overseas candidate pools … but hey, as with everything else on or off the Internet, YMMV.
Brian just start ur own business … hee hee Hi Dave I have to agree with u I'm 57 act 21 ..but my body doesn't, it's still 57 ..Life is fun, isn't i t Dave …Phil R.
Hello Dave,
When my former brother in-law in the Philippines retired from major company he worked for to start up own business. He went contacted friends who had also worked for the same company who had reached compulsory retirement age and had been forced out.
He offered them a job in his company for as long they want to work. He now has a very successfull business for over 5 years now. Try doing that with a young below 25 year old person on a 6 month contract.
Steven
Hi Dave,Re:BRIAN C#5 question,i have some Gov't statistics on Phils average wages that may be of interest to him.Army Major General P39000 a month,District Engineer P25000 mth,Police Chief P25000 mth,Gov't Elementary school principal P17000 mth,Senior Doctor P20000 mth,Policeman P11000 mth,Mechanic P8500 mth,regards Chas.
@Steven: I'm sorry, I seem to have missed your point, Steven. I wasn't arguing in favor of restricting jobs based on age … I'm very much against doing so. I'm just reporting on how things _are_ here in the Philippines rather than how people might want them to be. There are things that as Americans or citizens of many other cuntries we are just going to have to come to terms with … so many guys I know have cme to the Philippines with the idea of 'I'll show them how it's done'. Well, it doesn't seem to work that way, at least most of the time.
@CHAS: Indeed. Another issue I have seen a bit of, especially with folks in the IT world. A lot of guys from the US express the opnion that they can come here and 'show those third-world country' folks how IT is done. Well, perhaps a few can. But when they find that thie department head is a PhD in computer science from India and their immediate supervisor is also a 25 yo Chinese PhD and all the midnight-shift technicians have MBA's and other post-grad degrees they often run into technical shock as well as the cultural variety.
Not at all say9ng a smart guy can't succeed but pointing out it is not a 'vast wsteland' searching for skilled workers here. A week or so ago I saw an interesting stat regarding higher education. More than 60% of all college students in China are enrolled in a science or engineering curriculum. Something less than 4 % of US students are. It certainly made me shake my head.
Hi Dave, I too noticed the age requirements in work ads. I've wondered why that is, for quite a while actually. I wonder if it is because it is much easier to train somebody from scratch and mold them to how you want things done. I do notice that a lot of older labourers say yes and yes to your instructions and then quickly switch back to their old ways the minute you turn away. 🙄
Hi Dave,
I've heard of these young, attractive type requirements happening in Japan as well. I wonder if it's like that in most Asian countries.
It seems to me for an older westerner to come to the Philippines to look for a job is rather pointless in most cases. If a westerner plans to settle down in the Philippines I think they need sufficient pension /investment income or have a solid business plan that they intend to execute.
@Ellen: not 100% sure, Ellen, it is certainly not confined to the Philippines. I lived in Japan for three years and you will have to search many a store over there to find a saleslady over 25 or 30. Likewise China. I would suggest it is for severla reasons:
As you point out, you don't have to un-teach old habits from young folks who essentially have no habits.
Youthful applicants will accept less pay and benefits.
There is undoubtedly a certain aspect of "dirty old man-ism" in selecting the prettiest girls … hey it's a proven fact they sell more, at least to male customers … (of course in Japan, department store ladies look and dress much as department store clerks here except the uniform skirts are, well, 'uniformly' a _lot_ shorter (not that this ever influenced a purchase decision on my part, I am sure ;-)) but even in research where only women did selections, young pretty girls tended to be seleted more than older women … our eye seems to be attracted to youthful, pretty women regardless of any sexual attraction factor.
@Randall Jessup: Hi Randall, thanks for commenting. I agree with everything you said, but I would ad another alternative. Why couldn't a guy (or gal) set up an income stream online while still employed at their 'old job' in the States and then continue that when they make the move. To be in business in the Philippines you don't have to do business in the Philippines. Both Bob and I write often on this, but I am still always amazed by the number of queries I get about 'finding a job' or starting a small, hand-to-mouth business, just because there are so many others living hand-to-mouth.
Anyone who plans to come to the Philippines in the future can start building their business right now, today, and be that much better prepared … rather than moving here with a busienss plan, they can move here with a business.
Quote: "There is undoubtedly a certain aspect of “dirty old man-ism” in selecting the prettiest girls … hey it’s a proven fact they sell more, at least to male customers "
Hmmm, I don't know about this one. Personally, I go to the older ones first (if there are any) – THEY are smarter and can give you better answers. The young ones pretend to know all, and give you garbage answers. 😀
@Ellen: Ha ha ha I couldn't agree with you more, Ellen … read the end of the sentence yu quoted over again … being bedazzled by the SWT (Sweet Young Thing) is much more a male failing than a female one … or is that a male 'falling'? LoL
I'm noted for not carrying things around with me when I shop. The guys and gasl at the malls who hand out flyers and 'win this or that' raffle chances and such don't like me a lot, because I often just brush past them, preferring not to take on the clutter.
When I lived in Tokyo I decided to take a trip to Akihabara, the 'electronics supermarket of the world'. A real "geek heaven". I got off the train and on he way out of the staion was a large roofed over sort of plaza, kind of resembling the structures you see a lot of rural palenkge's in here in the Philippnes. It was _cold_ in there that day, close to 20 degrees F with a brisk breeze. Between me and the exit I wanted was kind f an obstacle course of about 20 SWT's in Santa's elve's suits … the kind that Mrs. Claus would not approve of 😉 … why their legs were white rather than blue I really don't know, but I do believe I checked every lady closely for signs of frostbite, kindly soul that I am.
Each girl was there to hand out a promo flyer or brochure on some sort of electronics gear … in Japan, handing out freebies in very skimpy costumes is a well know path to show business success, on TV or the silver screen, or so the girls are told.
When I got to the exit I discovered I had somehow acquired a plastic bag full of at least a kilo of advertising flyers for every kind of electronic gimmick you could think os … none of which I wanted and most of which I couldn't read.
Mystifies me to this day, do you think there could have been a connection between the _very_ brief elf costumes and my unwanted promo materials? Nah, probably just pure coincidence, diba?
You dirty old man you 😆
@Ellen: Oy! How can you say that about me? How unjust! I shower at least once a day with Dial soap! 😉
I agree age is only on your mind. I am 74 and McCain is 72. There is chance McCain will be the next US President. Is 72 year old, too old to be president of the most powerful country in the world.? I am voting for Obama not because of McCain's age, but because I agree more of Obama's policies and plans for the future of US.
Hi David B Katague- I had no idea that you were 74! Honestly, I don't know why, but I thought you were in your 30's or 40's! You come across as a young guy the way you write, and on your website! I guess that indeed, age is only what you make it to be!