Sometimes it is quite interesting to see two different people’s perspectives on the same topic, don’t you think? Well, last night I was browsing some various blogs, and came upon Nick’s post on his blog, Mamutong (by the way, Nick, your RSS feed is not working). He mentioned me, and kind of put me in comparison with Madame Chiang. I went over to Madame Chiang’s blog and did some reading. Wow, did she open my eyes!
From what I can tell, Madame Chiang is a pseudonym for somebody whom I believe is a British woman (although she never really says exactly who she is). She has been living in Manila for sometime (not sure how long), and she just seems to despise the Philippines, based on what I read. I feel sad for her. Apparently, she is in the process of (or has completed) moving to Thailand. God, I hope she finds a better life there, because it appears that she was absolutely miserable in the Philippines.
Nick speculated that Madame Chiang may have never left Manila, but I did find some articles about her visits to Cebu and Bohol, so she has ventured out of Manila. If she had only been in Manila, I would probably understand her feelings. I try to avoid Manila (as Nick speculates) as much as I can. I think I’ve been there twice in the 7 years that I’ve lived here. Last time I went there, I was going for like 4 or 5 days as I recall. I was kind of excited to go there, since there are lots of things there that aren’t available here in Davao. After one day there, I was ready to come home to Davao! Oops… I just realized that I’ve been three times! That was three times too many, but I digress.
Anyway, getting back to Madame Chiang, from what I can see, she never had one positive thing to say about the Philippines in all of her blogging. If that’s the case, why live here? Well, she is leaving, so I guess I understand why.
How can it be that Madame Chiang and I have two diametrically opposed opinions about the country? Yes, I am the first (well, maybe I’m second after the Madame!) to admit that there are problems in the Philippines. Almost nothing is perfect here, but things are getting better all the time. All I know is that I enjoy my life here, and it appears that the Madame did not.
I wish her well in Bangkok.
Thanks to Nick for bringing her on to my radar!
Hi Bob, Manila has a different culture. I like Davao better. Although Davao's traffic is getting worse. Hey, there's Samal Island. I'd prefer it not bridged with Davao City to keep it pristine. I remmember when Times beach was like the beaches of Samal and Talomo beach was full of corrals.
And they were free to the public.
Bob
I read some of mdme whatever she is called blog but it gave me a headache and reminds me of many uk women i have known, goodness me they know how to complain….i won't read her again
BUT me too i don't like Manila… and have "suffered" at the airport like everyone else it's ASIA…….
Much prefer your slant Bob, it reflects my own views
Hi Bobby – Indeed, Manila is a different animal. One of my Filipino friends likes to always tell me that "Manila is not the Philippines, and the Philippines is not Manila." I couldn't agree more!
Hi Rick – Yeah, I prefer not to let myself get down into the place where the Madame is wading…
Hi Bob, as Rick says, she is typical I am afraid, she is having a pop at Manila, I can tell from her Vocab she is a UK girl, I am suprised she did not use the phrase "Those wretched taxi drivers" then she would have shown her trule colours, but she did not use the phrase "one finds" which would have really given the game away ! actually Gin Gin and I were having a good laugh this morning getting ready for work laughing at her comments, does she think Bangkok will be any better ?
Hi Bob, I noticed Madame Chiang made a comment about that dreadful practice of urinating in public, see !! I am not the only one who noticed it, actually It happened to us in a stationery car, in central Manila on our way to Roxas boulevard, some Filipino unzipped his flies and urinated down our car, I was sitting in the car at the time, our taxi driver had gone to get a pack of fags, and left us stationery, this guy came up and did the dirty deed, I accept I am infuriated by this, but I also n oticed it once or twice when I was in EDSA coming out for a taxi late at night, geeeeze I thought it was only me that noticed it.
Hi Pete – I read some stuff that strongly lead me to believe that she was British. Glad to get confirmation from you guys. Speaking of urinating… I also despise the act. But, what can you do? So far I have avoided the urge to follow the phrase – "when in the Philippines, do as the Filipinos do" on that particular habit. 😉
Well I see them urinating on the street here in Davao, but it's not as bad as elswhere. I'll also admit that there was one time after consuming 6 Red Horse Grandes with in-laws that I had to go and the CR was occupado… so I used the canal. But that was once… maybe I should stop drinking Red Horse lol
Hi Louis – Yeah, I see them too. Not as bas as in other places though. In General Santos, I could see maybe several dozen urinators per day along the streets. In Davao, I don't even see one per day.
Hello All,
Interesting post by M. Chiang. Being a woman, I understand where she's coming from. I don't think she's a complainer, she is just stating unfortunate facts and was being very candid about them. I have had similar experiences myself.
Re men urinating in public, I think the local governments should do something about this disgusting habit. My suggestion would be:
1. Build public toilets accessible to drivers and motorists. The problem is these poor drivers do not have anywhere to go but the streets.
2. Pass an ordinance banning this practice.
3. Extract a stiff fine/penalty from violators.
I realize this may sound unrealistic or drastic to some but, hey, we have to start somewhere!
I'm not sure where to leave this comment, but I guess this is as good as spot as any…
I love being able to read several posts each day! Each afternoon, while I'm at work, I come to this blog anxiously awaiting Bob's post for the day. I guess it's my way to escape this rat race and for those 10 minutes, dream of the day I might be in your shoes. But now I am pleasantly surprised to find not one or two, but many to read all on different topics. Thanks again for the wonderful info you post here, Bob. And another welcome to all the new bloggers. 🙂
Hello Tina, actually, the MMDA in Manila, has erected 388 pink urinals for the use of men who wish to urinate in the street, sadly though there are no facilities for females, the pink urinals have drawbacks, they have no water, (are not water faucets) secondly, they stink to high heaven, but they are better than nothing at all, there are also special hole in the wall pee holes for taxi drivers, they are normally along major highways and in Metro Manila.
Hi Pete,
Oh my, how sad is that! Do these "pee holes" provide some privacy, at least? Where are these pink urinals located? Are they those stand-alone portable structures? Well, at least the government is trying to do something about it. The next steps, I guess, are #'s 2 & 3 above and strict enforcement. This is the only way people will learn. Sad, though…
Yeah, I think the government should provide toilets for females also.
All,
FYI, M. Chiang also posted what she'll miss from the Philippines,
http://mdmechiang.blogspot.com/2007/07/things-i-w…
So it's not all negative – she's really being fair. Guess what, she'll be coming back, so how bad can the Philippines be in her eyes, huh? 😉 It's refreshing to read about a female expat's perspective of living in the Philippines, in her case – Manila.
Hi Tina – It's interesting, because I can see the Madame's point of view, as I see mine as well. It's like Nick said in his post, he can identify with both, as can I. I just feel that she takes a more negative slant than I do. She has her positive posts too, like the new one that I've been waiting to see about the things she'll miss in the Philippines. I enjoyed reading that.
Hi Jen – Thanks for your compliment! I'm glad that you are enjoying the blog. I specifically brought on the new bloggers so that we could add more content here for people to enjoy. Right now, everybody is just feeling their way through and getting used to the blog. It will be interesting and enjoyable to watch it grow.
Hi Pete – I've seen those pink "urinals" on the news before. It's a step in the right direction, although really all it is is a cover so you can't see what the guy is doing.
Hi Tina – I fixed your link, by the way.
Interesting post and discussion. And interesting title too. In many ways we are all in different "Philippines". This is something that has always surprised me about expats … they so often expect "the Philippines" to be a homgeneus place where what happens in one city will be the same in another. Kind of silly, given the differences between the different states and cites where we came from before … and even less likely to happen here because the Philippines is not really one unified nation and probably never will be …except on paper. Illocanos don't think much of, nor put up with much from Pampangans … and those from Mindanao? Why their almost from another country, aren't they? Atbp, Atbp…
Having lived for years in Thailand I wish the good madam well .. she'll have a thing or two to learn about the culture there, also.
I sure would like to get as steamed up about the "big" problem of urinating in public as some seem to be … obviously not a lot on some people's plates. I might suggest that before the government starts huge programs of mandatory bathrooms and other nice to have features of modern society they might perhaps look at few simple needs like feeding the children, unsolved political and journalist murders, child prostitution and maybe, when all those are solved, air pollution?
I mean the pee "problem" is a "problem" all over Asia .. even in technologically advanced and rich Japan … it's an Asian "thing" and it's hardly going to go away. laws or no laws. It is the kind of thing that influential Filipinos like to focus on though, like a lady lawyer acquaintance of mine whose biggest injustice in life is the fact that SM is allowed to charge 30 pesos for paring her BMW with no government regulation of the charge and no mandatory parking validation program to cancel the charge when you buy something. First things first, that's what I always say.
Hi Dave,
Interesting comment. I didn't know this was an "Asian thing". I guess we learn something new everyday, huh?
I agree with you re government priorities, there are much bigger problems that the national government should be focusing on. This is why I specifically mentioned that the local governments handle this "problem".
Hey Tina, I saw the pink urinals when I stayed a few days in Paranaque (Metro Manila). I think they were along Roxas Blvd, and they were really quite frequent…too frequent I think. I rode the LRT everywhere else in Manila so that was the only place I saw them. My first thought was "why are they pink?" and the 2nd, "where's mine?"
🙂
Hi Dave and Tina – I had been told sometime back that the urinating is not an "Asian thing" but it is mostly in the Philippines where you see it. But, I don't know about it, and am not an expert on the subject, so I'll defer to Dave.
Hi Elisa – I always wondered that too… why are they pink?
Spent 2 weeks in New Deli India years ago with the US Embasy, The security officer took us to lunch and on the way back, he said we had to do the normal visitor thing…… Pee on the wall of the China Embasy..LOL you should have seen it, 4 or 5 of us lined up on a very stained wall. I could go on with stories like this, becasue during my time in the Navy, I've been to 22 or more contries, some of which would make Manila look like heven.
Have a great 4th all
Mitch
Hi Mitch – Interesting tale! I have a question…. peeing on the wall of the Chinese Embassy, is is a political statement for US Embassy/Security personnel?
Hi Elisa & Bob,
My guess is there was a big pink paint sale that day. 😉
Hi Tina – Yep! You got me on that one! 🙂
If I may weigh in…. yes, I am British…yes, I found Manila particularly hellish…however if you read properly through my posts you will find that I love Cebu and happily have spent a lot of time there…unfortunately though, working in Manila I didn't get out of town too much. I feel the comments on 'complaining British ladies' a little unfair….I have lived overseas all my life – both as a child and working…if you read back through my posts on Hong Kong, Jordan etc…you will see there is little to complain about – love living overseas and usually am incredibly positive about where I live. For the reader who wondered if I would find Bangkok any better…already I'm three weeks in and yes, I find it a far more pleasant/efficient environment than Manila – yes of course there are still the usual irritants – but they are part and parcel of living in any big city.
As to why I went to Manila in the first place…one goes where the company sends you….
My overall impression of the Philippines (and this is from someone who has lived in West Africa, South America, other developing SE Asian countries) is that the country wastes its resources (see one of my recent posts before leaving), and that actually has frustrated me since I arrived…as I see the country has huge potential. In discussion with many of my Filipino colleagues, they are as horrified about the state of their country as I am…which in itself is tragic.
As to the pink paint….who knows…at least the urinals are noticeable, not that it makes much difference!
Well! Madame Chiang – Welcome to the LiP Blog! It is my pleasure to hear from you, and honestly, I hope that your journey to Thailand is successful and enjoyable for you. Yeah, there have been a few comments that have been rather hard on you, but I hope you found my article fair. In many ways we disagree about the Philippines, but there are a few areas where we actually have some agreement. But, if I lived in Manila, I probably would be a lot more anti-Philippines, or at least feel more negative, so I can see that. As you said, you like Cebu, so there!
Hang around, and join in the discussion! I think you would add some interesting flavor here!
Well unlike a lot of you I don't live in the Philippines yet (moving out soon) but on my few visits to Manila, I have to say Madame C has some valid points. And certainly if you want to compare Manila with Bangkok lots of things in Manila won't come out looking very good.
The Taxi's in Manila are simply terrible, they will rather drive off leaving you on the road than turn on the Meter, most of them are in a terrible condition, tyres look worn, fuel always seems to be about to run out. Bangkok has good quality, clean and almost new taxis.
The airport is terrible compared to the shiny beautiful bangkok airport and the queueing on my last exit was sooooooo long you would not believe almost an hour and a half to just get checked in.
The supermarkets, well Bangkok has Tesco but Manila has M&S so thats a push to me.
Bangkok has some great malls, but so does Manila and with Fort Bonifacio Manila is on the up.
The peeing in the street thing, well I see it in the UK often enough, I know it's not as blatant as the Phils and does not happen as often but it happens so another push.
Let me add one or two things more thing to the list:
Beer: San Mig Lite Vs any Thai beer – only one winner and thats San Mig – I don't normally drink beer but that stuff is wonderful.
Food – In two holidays in Thailand I never had any problems and the food is always divine.
In my holidays in the Philippines, the food is overall nice, but the range and variety is not as good as Thai food – and I have without fail ended up not knowing which end to point at the toilet for two or three days, In fact at one stage I spent three days in bed hugging a bag of ice and taking cold showers every 20 minutes or so as I was burning up – and that was not the only thing burning if you know what I mean, and I successfully lost a lot of weight!!!!
Hi AceRockolla – your comment reminded me of a line that people used to tell me all the time, and I really believe it's true.
"Manila is not the Philippines, and the Philippines is not Manila."
Many of the things that you mention as problems in Manila are simply not problems when you get outside the city. Personally, I really couldn't live in Manila.