Well, I haven’t mentioned for a while about my quest to learn how to speak Bisaya. Don’t worry, though, that doesn’t mean that I’ve given up, I just haven’t been talking about it for a while! I didn’t want to wear out the topic. But, a few people have asked me about it via e-mail, so I thought I’d post an update.
Everything is still going very well in with my Bisaya Lessons. I am moving ahead all the time. There are a total of 60 lessons in two different books for the entire course, and I just finished up on Lesson 17. We generally do one lesson per week, although there have been times when we have taken a second week on certain lessons if I felt that I needed a review. So, I have been studying a little over 5 months now, and have completed the first 17 lessons. The first book, which I am studying from contains lessons 1 through 30, and every day it seems like the remainder of the book is getting smaller and smaller, which makes me feel good.
At this point, I really know how to form sentences. I have no problem making complete and proper sentences. My biggest problem is that sometimes there are things I want to say, but I don’t know all the words yet! But, I do learn new vocabulary all the time. At this point, I know probably 500 to 600 words, and I learn maybe 20 to 30 new words every week. So, my vocabulary is building up, which I like.
In the past, when I have tried to learn Bisaya, my former teachers have always started out by teaching me words. I learned a lot of words (which is still beneficial to me, because I know words now that have not even been taught to me on my current lessons), but I didn’t know how to make sentences with those words! With my current teacher, Bebe, our lessons have been focused in on learning how to make sentences and to use proper grammar, and this has made it actually very easy to learn the language!
In the last couple of weeks, I have gotten particularly interested in learning more and more of the language. Almost every night after dinner I like to sit down with my nieces and play around with them, usually regarding Bisaya. I will kind of quiz them on words, kind of showing off the new words that I have learned. Sometimes I will find that I have learned new words that they don’t even know! You know, in Bisaya, as most languages, there are sometimes multiple words that mean the same thing. So, sometimes a new word that I learn is different than the word that my nieces know for the same thing. This makes it kind of fun, because I will tease them that I already know more Bisaya than they do. It’s all just kind of a joke, but we have fun with it.
One thing that I have learned during my lessons is about how people from here speak English. There are many times that I hear people from here using incorrect words in their English, and it seems that most of them make the exact same mistakes as the other. In many of these instances, I now understand why. By learning their language, I can see how if it were translated back to English there are common mistakes that would be made. I consider this to be an important part of what I’ve learned. Because of these things I have learned it helps me not only learn their language, but it also helps me understand their English better than I did before. In the past, when people would say certain things to me in English, it didn’t really make sense, but now I understand what a lot of those things mean. It’s an interesting process.
Learning Bisaya has not only been the right thing to do, I have been finding it fun and interesting. I have lived here for nearly 8 years, and I really realize now that I was wrong for having waited this long to learn to speak the local language. This is an important part of living here, an important sign to people that I want to be part of their society, etc. I wish I had done it sooner!
And… I can’t wait to finish!
Is your teacher through a school or a private tutor Bob? Might be interested in starting classes myself when I get back from the States in September. I know what you mean about the english mistakes… some of them are rather funny but I do my absolute best to never laugh. With my wife I'm actually helping her to correct her mistakes at her request. Side note: After the Friends of Mindanao meeting the other morning I was waiting at victoria for Venice to join me after church… she texted me to get lunch because she was staying at the church for "a novena and incest" what??? She meant Incese when they purify the church but I had to crack up laughing at that one.
Hi Louis – My teacher is kind of a combination! She does teach at a local school, but only part time. For the language lessons, that is private, not associated with the school. She comes to my house one day per week for a little over an hour. I believe that she charges me for one hour, but is very generous with her time, and will generally stay longer than what I am paying for. She is an excellent teacher. I've taken Bisayan classes 3 times now, and have never learned this much in the past!
Incest? Ha ha… that IS funny!
The kind of mistake I am talking about really has to do with tense and such. For instance, if you went to the store to buy a bottle of coke and a Filipino will ask you "Did you bought the coke?" For us, it would be "Did you buy the coke?" Well, if you say it the proper way in Bisaya, and then translate it literally into English from Bisaya, it would come out "Did you bought the coke?" and now I understand that. It's not that they are making an error in the English, it's that they are making an exact translation of the proper use in Bisaya! I find it quite interesting.
When I was in Manila (for brief training) many years ago while in the U.S. Army, I was learning a little tagalog. Now, I don't know whether to study Tagalog or Bisayan. Since my fiancee' speaks mainly Bisayan, I think that seals the decision. I don't recall meeting anyone who spoke Ilocano. I've forgotten how many dialects there are. However, if I am in Manila, would they understand Bisayan? I guess I could always fall back on the English. They say English is one of the hardest languages to learn. The example I use is: male= he; female=she; together it becomes them. Yes, it sounds strange to hear someone not speak English the way we are accustomed. However, when you look at my example, we have a difficult language to learn.
Hi Ed – There are more than 80 different languages spoken in the Philippines. I am not going to get into the dialect/language debate, as it is a debate that never ends!
Not too many people in Manila speak Bisaya, only the ones who moved up there from down South for the most part. If you are going to live in Manila, better to learn Tagalog. If you will live in the Visayas or Mindanao you should go for Bisaya.
Not trying to be a cynic Bob but positively speaking you are a relatively young man and have your owm business here dedicated to living in the Philippines. You appear to be a true romantic and the notion of speaking the language is relative to what you do and who you are.
While I am not an authority in this subject I have spoken to many about this before when you frist wrote about your studies (enough to give a quorum on the subject) as I am in a group of 15 or so golfers and have about 15 or so other foreign friends living here so I think I can speak from the majority .
1. Most of us have trouble remembrering our own names at times and trying to learn a language like Filipiono or Bisaya is a complete waste of time for us.l
2. Frankly, none of us give a crap as most of us don't and have no desire at all to socialize with Filipinos. And if we are around the upper level Filipino then they speak better english than we do and prefer to speak it. We may have girlfriends and wives and in fact make it a habit to stay away from their friends and family as that usually cost us money
3.If I had to learn a language, I would rather learn korean or chinese as they will control the country in 15 years anyway.
hope I did not offend. Just anotehr side of the subject
Hi Vicki – I am curious, if you have no desire to socialize or interact with Filipino people, why do you live here? What would be the purpose of living in a place where you seem to despise the people? It must be a sad life.
Also, why do you think that Koreans or Chinese will control the country in 15 years? What is magical about 15 years from now? Why not 10 years? Why not 12? Why do you think that the Koreans or Chinese will gain control at all?
You know, Vicki, I write about things that I have going on in my life here in the Philippines. I don't write what I think YOU want to hear, I write what I feel is interesting to me and what readers will enjoy (a lot of readers, not just you). In the past, when I have written about my journey in learning the local language, a lot of people have responded to that, so there is an interest.
Some things that are of interest to you have no meaning in my life. For example, you talk about your golf game. Frankly, I have no interest in that. If you enjoy it, hey, that's great for you! If you don't like for me to write about my learning of the language, honestly, I am sure you can find other things on the net to read that day.
Now, one other thing Cor… oops… I mean Vicki. For a long time now, I have not believed that you are who you say you are. Vicki is a female name, and you have made statements in the past on this blog that would indicate that you are female. But, in this comment you mention about having a "wife or girlfriend." This doesn't add up. On top of that, you showed up on this site almost immediately after another person left, after causing trouble here. You are now beginning to act like that other person (bad language, insults and such). You also talk about the same places and subjects that the other person always talked about. I am relatively certain that I know who you are. It's OK, I have no problem, even if you use your real name. The thing is, if you are the person whom I think you are, when you left before, you sent me some e-mails that were threatening of my family, and quite insulting. If you want to participate here, I ask that you keep a cool head.
Enough said on the subject.
Hi Bob – I was going to type a reply on a recent comment, but after reading your post, I realize that it's another game being played here. It would do me no good to give this joker any relevance. Good for you to catch it.
I'll move on to complement you on your language classes. I'm about to start language lessons on my own through audio cd since I realize I'm wasting valuable time working on the computer and it would be uselful to just pop a cd and learn while working. I'm trying Spanish since it would be an easy transition from Filipino and the border's only 15 minutes away. If I get frustrated with the learning, I'll just think WWBD (what would bob do?).
Good Luck & I hope you won't try to confuse me too much with your hard core bisaya words when we next meet up like you do with your nieces.
Honestly I don't know why you get so offended and defensive about a poster responding to your blog. There was absolutely no malice intended to you and the comment which made I think was quite valid. I even asked my own wife about it and she agreed.
I personally came to the Philippines for the reasonable cost of living, golf, and diving. Again I have many friends here and none of them have any desire to learn the language. They have no desire to have friends that are Filipino. Does that mean they dislike Filipinos. Not at all they just have nothing they find in common with them.This is what they say.I see their point to some degree. I also find very little to talk about. For one thing most have never left the country so I find myself constantly having to talk about my home country and that gets boring. Sorry if you think that's selfish.
Frankly I have issues with my own country and don't socialize much outside of my group of friends there either.
As for 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. Yes youu are correct it is an aribtrary number. I think I was basing it on when I think all the fish will be gone from the waters here from overfishing.Just a gut feeling that's all.
As for your other comment my name is vicki and yes I am a real man. Is that a probelm for you. If it is call me vic like most others do.
Finally I might sugest you start listening to the comments your readers make and stop being so defensive. It is very unprofessional of you. As yo usee you only got 4 comments today so this subject was wildy popular. Again I miught suggest you listen to your readers or you will be alone.
Hi Macky – Ha ha… I'll try to go easy on you! I used to be able to get by in spanish, but I've forgotten most of it now. Good luck on that, Macky!
Hi Vicki – I can assure you that I have no problem with you writing the comment you wrote. But, I am also free to post the comment that I wrote. I don't think that I have too much to worry about when you say that I will be alone here, I don't think that will happen.
All I can say, Vic or Vicki is that you should feel free to post what you want, and I will do so too. I do ask you to keep the language clean and refrain from insulting people. I follow those same rules myself, so I am not asking you to do anything that i won't be doing.
bob, that vic or vicki is very ignorant .you dont have to go down down down to his/ her level.lets move on…..next please…maybe his/ her brain cells are caput.or maybe something wrong with synapes.
Hi TV – Thanks for the comment! I agree with you completely, and as far as I am concerned there is no need for that particular discussion to go further.
Re: Languages.
In the past I lived for a time in two cultures very different from my own, I am Scottish by the way.
My experience was that if you can learn just a few words of the language of the country you are living in and drop them into the conversation from time to time it was a distinct advantage. People will warm to you more and go out of their way to help you on your day to day business.
I guess that if knowing a few words is a big advantage then knowing a lot of words will be an even bigger advantage … obvious really.
Scott
Hi Scott – what you say is very true. Having lived here for 8 years already, I really see clearly that learning the language will make me more a part of society here. It will make my life here more comfortable, and is something that I should have already done. No matter what others say, I don't see how this can be denied.
So Bob on one hand you critisize me for voicing an opinion based on actual personal experience and conversations over time with many ex-pats here and then go on to suggest there is no room for my type pf posting but it is okay for someone to bash me in impolite ways as TV has. You really are two faced. I feel sorry for you. It appears that only your opinion counts here and shame on anyone that voice theirs in oppositiion. What a double standard. You should be having the same rules for everyone.
Vicki – How can you say that I won't allow your comments? I clearly said that you are free to post your comments. TV didn't say anything bad about you. He said you were ignorant. That means that you are uninformed, which is quite obvious based on the comments that you made. It doesn't mean anything bad, only that you are uninformed on this issue, which is TV's opinion. It's mine too. You have your opinion, I am sure too, which I have freely allowed you to post. I admit, there are lots of things I am ignorant about too. We all have issues on which we are ignorant.
Tell me how I am ignorant on this particular subject of discussion. I didn't arbitrarily make these things out of my imagination. I made them based on conversations with others as well as my own personal feelings. Many who have lived in this country much longer than you, many that are extremely educated and many who are monied, well traveled and experienced unlike many who live here so BOB please don't tell me I am ignorant. If is fairly obvious that you are suggesting that anyone that doesn't agree with you is ignorant. That is what you saying point blank as well as TV.
Vicki – Nobody is gaining any ground in this "discussion" – I think it would be best for all of us if we just agree to disagree and move on. I have no more to say in this particular discussion with you, and I request that we all do the same.
I want an apology
Vicki – As do I, Vicki, as do I.
This discussion is finished now.
it shows the kind of breeding you have vic or vicki… can you not see ? ok , yes maybe your perfect ,well educated as you want . i dont know. your still ignorant and acting so.you never say any OFFENSIVE to anybody. im living outside the philippines , im trying to dessimate to this culture and language where i am which is very diffirent and hard.let me assure you im doing good in this regard. nothing to worry.its good to learn other culture .thats my opinion.this world is populated with NOT your kind only. vic or vicki think abou it.lastly you dont demand apology you have to earn it.adios!!!!!this is my last on this topic.so long…..
hi bob that durian fruit , i never have one, never tasted one . does it taste like guavano.ive heard it smells different.you look like enjoying it in some long time post…..
A little satire here:
"Since moving here to the US, I have had no desire or give a crap about socializing with the Americans. This may be their country, but it is beneath me to talk to them & know their ways as I'd rather just hang out with my inner circle of Filpino expats in our round of country club golf. If I were to speak to the locals, It would be the "upper-crust" Americans (re:caucasian) who would be well-travelled & maybe more cultured than the typical ignorant folk here. Though I already can speak English, I'd rather learn Mexi-Spanish or Chinese since they would be taking over the country in 15 years anyway … or maybe it's best to just fly back where I came from so my upper-class ways won't be misinterprested as racist by my hosts"
I just switched things. Smacks of bigotry & ignorance? you betcha.
Nothing against the Koreans or Chinese, but that comment on post#5 about them taking over the Philippines in a few year is just offensive to Filipinos. My culture has just been labeled expendable. There is no other way around it. I hope you kept your white hooded robe at home.
Hey, I am aware of the that clear social divide of the haves & the have-nots in the Philippines. It can be tricky trying to relate to a different culture, but deliberately steering clear of the 70-plus % of the country who are in the have-not bracket because you can't relate to them? You moved to a foreign country! what do you expect?
It's sad, but one bad fish can taint a large well-meaning expat community. Getting to know the host country's people (through language or just relationships) can go a long way to breaking down stereotypes. Everyone has a right to live as they choose but i'd rather pack up & leave than build a bigoted wall around myself.
Well said Mackay, I will follow your example !
When I arrive in Davao next month as I hope to do I will wear my kilt, sporran, and bonnet with a large feather in it, and of course I will aim at finding a group of fifteen or so other Scotsmen in similar attire and only socialise with them for the rest of my life.
We can ignore English speakers and Bisaya speakers and converse in our native Gaelic and form an ice curling club over on Samal.
I feel certain that Scottish people will take over Davao in about 14.5 years from now.
All makes sense eh!
Scott
Hi TV – At this point, I think it's best to just let go of it. Vicki has shown what kind of person he is, it's clear and plain for anybody to see. I don't think that we'll be hearing from Vicki again.
Durian – Hey, I love the stuff!
Hi Macky – Nice piece there! Right on point!
Hi Scott – Would you consider letting an American in? After all, I think I'd be pretty handsome in that kilt! 😆
Bob,
Would you mind sharing the name of the Bisaya book you are are using? I want to get back on the learning Bisaya track. Thanks
Hi Kevin – The book I am learning from is entitled "Understanding Cebuano Grammar." However, you won't find it available in any stores – it was written by my teacher, and specifically for her students. That being said, though – she and I are planning to put together some kind of "online language lesson" website in the next few months.
Hi Scott — haha. If I hear a rumor about a strange talking, kilt wearing tribe in Samal playing some weird ice game with brooms under a wooden statue of Robert the Bruce … well, I'll know where it came from.
Good luck explaining curling to the locals. Then again, good luck explaining the kilts (no pictures, please). Maybe I should lend you my Scot Westie terrier to complete the ensemble.
As a late comer to this discussion, I am really proud of you for your progress! there is a saying, "Learn another language, gain a second soul." There are things you will never know or understand about a culture until you can speak their language. You are beginning to see that, even in understanding why certain mistakes in English are common.
Here is another example: there is no word that translates to our English word, 'thrifty' in Bisaya. There are two words that come close, but both words have a negative connotation of stingy or tight-fisted and un-generous. What does that tell you about the culture? That generosity and communal well-being are higher values than personal (individual) financial security. This is an alien thought for us, but it is just a different cultural value, one that comes out in the language itself– it is that intrinsic. The more you understand the language, the more you will see and understand the culture.
Hi AmericanLola – Thanks for your nice comment. OK, on your statement about "thrifty" – certainly one of the two words is "kuripot," but I can think of what the other might be. Fill me in! 😆
Hi Everybody – I just wanted to tell everybody that I have decided to block Vicki from posting further comments. Unfortunately, Vicki's latest comment (which was not posted, because I had moderated it) got more abusive, and I decided that such comments were not welcome on the site. He made comment that everybody here can "shove your glib remarks up your &^$#(&". I simply don't feel that this is appropriate for this site, and thus, I feel that Vicki has worn out his welcome.
Of course, there are ways that anybody can sneak past software that is intended to stop that person from participating, and Vicki may resort to that. I just want to make it clear that it is my choice to ask Vicki to go elsewhere for his entertainment.
I am sorry that it came to this. I rarely take the step of blocking anybody, but when it gets abusive and is demeaning to groups of people, that just goes too far, in my opinion.
If you feel that I have made this call in error, I'd certainly entertain your view and consider any points that you wish to make. I would ask, though that any such opinions be shared in a way that is not offensive and in a spirit of building a better site, not tearing down what we have here.
For you, Vicki, if you read this, I am sorry it came to this. I asked you several times to drop the conversation and move on, but you refused to listen to my advice. I wish you nothing but the best of luck.
i think daginot , daginotan.correct me
Hi TV – My wife confirms that you are correct! She says, though, that daginot is "less bad" than kuripot, and can actually be somewhat good. Interesting! Thanks for sharing that, TV.
Hi Bob, I think it's too late to join the discussion. But I like to congratulate you for what you have done. 🙄 And, good luck for your language lessons also in future. Yeah, I experienced the same and I commented this already before on your site: Learning the language of the people, where we are living, open doors – and hearts… Have a great weekend my friend and best regards to Feyma!!! 😆
Hi Klaus – Thanks for stopping by! It's never too late to join the discussion!
Are you going to the mall later? Based on your most recent column, I guess you are! 😉
everybody lets pray for rodulfo lozada for strength , protection and guidance that may to continue to tell the truth in that zte fiasco.the truth will set you free.
Hahaha, nooo, I don't go there, Bob. I stay at home and enjoy my internet… 😆 😆
On our side of the island, the word is 'inot, mainot, etc.' same root, no doubt! It is less negative than 'kuripot', but still has the 'not willing to help others' flavor to it.
I think you made a good call. I know it is hard, but the internet is a big place and I am sure he can find people who share his perspective someplace out there. It is not like people with differing points of view are not welcome, but this is not the place to come out with your dukes up. So you get the job of 'playground monitor!'
Hi AmericanLola – Thanks for the follow up!
Hi Bob! Congrats on your progress in learning Bisaya! Will we soon you hear sing "usahay nagadamgo ako…" or any of the bisayan songs in your podcast? 🙂
BTW, Vicki reminds me of that commenter who was very nasty, and who you caught changing names. They do have the same idea of living in a community in the Philippines with no Filipinos except for the servants and some exceptionally rich ones.
oops, I mean "will we soon hear you sing…"
Hi Dex U – Thanks for the nice comment! If I were to start singing on my podcast (in Bisaya or English) it might break a lot of computers out there, and even shut down the internet! We don't want that! 😆
😉 hello BOB.. it's very nice to know that you are really trying to learn a great language in the Philippines.
Hi Barbie – I've been studying Bisaya for about 8 months now, and am doing quite well with it. I am really enjoying getting to understand much more of what is going on around me! 😆