Over the weekend, I read an interesting article from Dave Starr on his site entitled “Philippine Family Matters.” I was so happy that I decided to take the time to read the article because of several reasons. Firstly, it drove home something that I have written about myself a number of times. Secondly, it made me think about how Dave’s Philippine family and mine are so very similar, which reinforced in me that this is really how the culture is, not just some freak occurance. And, thirdly, it made me think of something new. To be honest, I don’t think it taught me anything I didn’t already know, but what it did was make me put a few different things together and that made me think about something in a new way.
Dave told a story about his niece, Gia, who has moved in with Dave and his wife and is now attending school. I could tell from reading the article that Dave has an obvious affection for his niece. I really value my relationships with several of my nieces, it is a special tie. Dave told about how since Gia is now living in his household, he and his wife have taken on the role of parenting. Much like Dave, I have had the same experience. For 7 or 8 years now, I have had various nieces and nephews living with me off an on. Some of them up to 4 or 5 years at a time, even longer, I suppose. And, indeed, you become a parent to them. You don’t call up or text their parents when a decision needs to be made. You are the parent now, and you make the decision. You do what is best for the young lady or man. It’s a special responsibility, and to be honest, it is one that I have enjoyed. It has brought richness to my life. Instead of having 3 or 4 kids, I have lots of kids now that I also have some parenting responsibility for other family members too.
Dave told about how Philippine families “pay it forward.” I loved it. I’ve heard the term “pay it forward” but had never thought of it in the terms Dave used. Dave told about how one family member (or a combination of family members) will pay for a youngster to go to school. Let’s say that “Uncle Dave” pays for Gia to go to college (I don’t know the financial arrangements that Dave has with Gia, so this is only an example). OK, when Gia finishes up college, she does not necessarily pay Dave back the money that he spent on her education. Instead, she might use her education to earn money to pay for her younger brother, or her young cousin or nephew to go to college. She pays it forward, not back. So, Dave might pay for one person to go to school, then it starts a seemingly never-ending chain of people getting educated from those original funds. In other words, unless somebody breaks that chain, Dave’s investment keeps getting paid forward to somebody else, and that original investment enables a LOT of people to go to college over the years. This is how it generally works in my Philippine family too, and I find it refreshing.
Now, all of this kicked off some other thinking in my mind. Over the years, I have heard a lot of foreigners say that Filipinos are dishonest. I’ve heard a lot of people say that money loaned is never repaid. Some foreigners tell me that if a family member asks to borrow money you should just give it as a gift instead of a loan, because it won’t be repaid anyway. Well, maybe, just maybe, these two things are tied together. Maybe they are not going to pay it back. Maybe they intend to pay it forward. Maybe not… but maybe so too.
Maybe the best thing we can do for a family member who is in need is not to give a gift of money to them. Maybe we should tell them that they don’t have to pay it back, but rather, they have to pay it forward within the family. Maybe we need to tell the family member that by accepting the P5,000 from us, they are taking on a responsibilitiy to pay the money forward to another family member who is in need in the future. I think that if we do so, we should also tell the borrower that when they do pay it forward, they need to let us know that they already fulfilled their responsibility.
If we, as foreigners, handle family financial requests this way, we can make ourselves feel better. Firstly, we are not getting all upset waiting for the loan to be repaid. Secondly, we can feel happiness about helping somebody with a genuine financial need. Thirdly, we get to experience the joy all over again a few years down the road when a second person gets assistance when they are in need.
I am not talking about somebody wanting some money to buy a new cellphone, or to go out drinking. I’m talking about a genuine financial need.
You know, we don’t know all the answers. We can learn from the way that Filipinos do things. Yeah, they can learn from us too, but that’s not the point. If we loan P1,000 to a brother in law and he doesn’t pay it back, how much stress should we go through over it? How much damage to our health should be endure from the stress? Instead, maybe we need to loosen up a bit, enjoy the help that we have given to somebody’s life, and look forward to how that assistance will continue to move forward in the family.
That’s the thought that Dave struck in my mind. What do you think?
Oh I know, your just kidding with him…and thought it was funny.:)
Hi Bob. You,ve touched on something here that most givers don,t understand. The funding of education for a family member is a noble gesture and not something I would expect to be reimbursed for, the pay it forward idea works well in this situation and is perhaps also a lesson in responsibility for the recipient. The giveing of money for no real reason and the expectation of getting it back is foolish. Paying someones bills without understanding why they couldn,t be payed in the first place is money down the drain and doesn,t help anyone in the long term. There must be a goal and a purpose to the giveing otherwise it,s just a welfare handout not a hand up.
Hi Bob – Beautiful thought – sometimes difficult in practice. 🙁
For some strange reasnon, we've had little luck "paying it forward" for family members. Sure, all the smiles and promises and good intentions were there at payday, but when it came time for performance, ZOT!
– One sibling/student got pregnant before graduation and wouldn't approach the father's family for assistance but demanded we "pay it forward" to help her child.
– One sibling/student finished his marine engineering school and passed his licensing test. He gets violently seasick and can't sail, so he picks up whatever job he can find.
– One sibling/student finished his marine engineering school and passed his licensing test. He decided to marry that first sibling/student's katulong and drive a jeep, then repair cars, then . . . .
– Other siblings were either too ashamed to ask for help or didn't want to end up like the trio of "professionals"!
Still, we're hopeful and "pay it forward" for others outside the family – we have a couple of scholarships going that we award to poor, agricultural kids who are intelligent and truly help their family. So far, so good. 😉
Hi Paul – Yep, Feyma and I have been through this ourselves over the years. Several nieces have been sent to school and ended up going off and being irresponsible. It saddens me, and they will probably never Pay it Forward. Like you, we do hope, we just recognize that it's unlikely… 🙁
Hi Bob,
Interesting thoughts and something i have been a little involved in.
I think the problem with many Westerners regarding pay back,is that our culture over the years has become selfish.
If we wish to live in PI we must re adjust our thinking and attitude.
regards Chas.
Hi chas – That is so true…. as a westerner, if we want to make it here in the Philippines, we have to adjust. It's like I often say…. 90 Million people will not change to please us, it is us who must do the changing!
A very interesting article! We have no blood family here in the Philippines, but we have many godchildren and people we love. Since we can choose who we help, we try to choose carefully. There are those whom we have helped with public school expenses, but when given a couple hoops to jump through, have not passed our 'entrance exam' for a college scholarship.
In one case, we asked a girl whom we knew to put on airs and avoid work, to work for someone else for a year, as a helper, to get some experience. If she would do that, she could be a working student and live with us, and we would pay for her college education. Doing this, she would also be able to help her parents, who are very poor. She did not do this. And, more tellingly, her parents did not make her do it or point out that this was a FREE college degree she was throwing away. Instead, her mother got a job so she could attend a computer school for a semester, and that was it. When time for registration came around, her mothers asked if we planned to have this girl as a working student, and was dismayed to find the answer was no. But asking her to work for a year and put off college for that time revealed character issues which I believe would have sabotaged our investment down the road.
Hi AmericanLola – Good to hear from you, it's been too long between comments! 🙂
The situation that you point out really struck home for me. We have a niece that displayed some character issues to us, and we told her, same as you, that before continuing her education we wanted her to work for a year, and if she was able to do that and show a good attitude about it, then we would send her to college. She was very upset, and refused to do it. She walked out in a huff. Since then, her character issues have really manifested themselves, and she is living a very tough life. She threw away a free college education, and even more benefits that were promised to her. It makes me feel bad for her, but she chose it herself.
Hi All
I have been "paying it forward" for years ….I just didn;t know the term.
I love the "fish or cut bait" attitude in detemining if your money is going to be wasted on a relative's post secondary education.
I will be using the info from this site I can tell you!!!!
Hola Bob: Nice article to read here. I need an advice, amigo. Now I have 4 girlfriend want me to pay their college (hey, at least not high school!). You think it OK 1 pay one girlfriend, then each girlfriend will pay forward to next gf? Working for me!
Hi Tyleen – Yeah, I hear you! Me too… gotta make sure your investment will be good!
Hi Carlin – Ha ha… 😆 I am sure it will work for you if one girl pays it forward for the next. Might not work so well for them, though! When you gonna get married and settle down?
Kamusta mo Bob/Carlin,
Married?? he's having too much fun..this comment did put a big smile on my face..Carlin you funny…lol.
Salamat kaayo,
Danny 🙂
Hi Danny – Ha ha… I was just having a little fun with Carlin. I doubt he will ever marry. Like you say, he is having fun now! Actually, Carlin and I have been having a little meeting with Tommy over on Facebook this morning, so I had to get in a little extra zinger here on LiP.
Kamusta ka Bob,
I read Dave's article earlier today, and thought that was great, and was also great that he encouraged Gia to write on his blog. It will be great experience for her.
I really like this system of "Pay Forward", as long as the recipients follow through with it.
I see myself doing this in future, Rose doesn't have a huge immediate family, but there are a bunch of cousin's, aunt's and uncles close by…guess we'll see what the future holds for us.
Ingatz,
Danny 🙂
Hi Bob! What is this ..a concession on Pinoy's attitude regarding loan)? Utang is utang 🙂 Kidding aside, you touch on very sensitive issue here. Before I left for the US, I swore to change my attitude about extending loans. It was so much harder there when the person asking you for loan is infront of you. Be that as it may, I still bail out some friends over there when they are short w/ money, give some cash gifts during their bday. But I'm happier because I do not have friends who give me worries because they owe me money.
Regarding AmericanLola's experience, this drives the point that being poor does not only refer to lacking in material wealth but also
being poor also in "mind set." I cannot begin to count how many times I encountered kids fresh from highschool who begged me for a job almost after the holiday season. I spend for their fare etc. But when the Holy week comes, the start of bakasyon grande, the season of fiestas & basketball games, they would insist on going home & forget about why they are in Manila in the first place.
& to Paul, that's just the way it is there. Sending one relative to school is a gamble there. The govt should regulate this. 🙂 I've heard of many who went to maritime school but never made it even to their ship of dreams. Thus, it's really impt to screen your scholars.
Hi Danny – What do you mean, she doesn't have a huge immediate family, but she has a bunch of cousins, aunts, uncles and such… Here in the Philippines that IS immediate family! Well, I suppose immediate family only extends out to about the 4th cousin, though! 😆
Hi Danny – 😉
Hi Roy…. I know you're just kidding, but seriously, I wouldn't consider it a concession, but rather an attempt at better understanding. Yes, what AmericanLola said about the girl who didn't want to work for a year before school was very telling, and displayed a poverty of values, in addition to monetary poverty. Good catch there.
As usual I'm learning lots from the conversation here. I think it's important to note two things here, because there are plenty of bad experiences along this line of thought and I wouldn't want people to think of the paying forward idea to be a sound investment, like buying T-bills.
First of all, in my case I am talking about quite small amounts of money … I certainly wouldn't advocate doing this sort of 'help' with money you really need for your own needs. This is not like I'm financing a degree at Harvard.
Second, I know more than enough tales of woe regarding efforts like this where some benefactor just sends money. The young lady is iving with us, we pay the bils directly, we've been to the school seen the facilites, met the dean and Gia's department head and will be involved in all phases of her education. I'd be scared to do this by 'remote control'. Too many things get in the way of the best of intentions.
Third. (what do you mean 'third', Dave, you said tow things"?) Yeah, I know, but Mita and I had a conversation in between the preceding paragraph and this one … I'm not all that intensely Christian, but I do believe there's a heck of a lot of truth in the Bible for folks of any level of faith. In particular I think Ecclesiastes in the Old Testament had it right: “Cast thy bread upon the waters: for thou shalt find it after many days.”
A "Day" in the Biblical sense is a unit of time without human dimension. I have no idea if my 'bread' will come back in any specific amount of time. Or, if ever.
Don't take this wrong, Paul becuase I'm glad you shared your experiences with us, but although your perspective of the success of your efforts in real world terms seems negative, I would respectfully submit that you actually have no idea at all what the eventual outcome of your 'paying forward' generosity will be.
Something about the 'fullness of time' comes to mind here, or in more day-to-day terms perhaps Yogi said it best … it ain't over 'til it's over.
Roy you expressed an important point in a way that helps us Americans understand it. My mother-in-law is a kind, pleasant , well-educated person with a heart as big as all outdoors. A few years ago mt wife and I had a sour experience with trying to help a 15 yo girl by giving her a job, cleaning her up, buying her clothes, getting her ready to go to school, etc. The attempts were in vain … the girl's family and even the girl herself seemed to get angry with us, the more we gave, the more they almost seemed to resent it, nothing went right and we parted company. Mother said, with a sense of 'tou should have known better' tone in her voice, "they are what they are."
Wow. You could have knocked me over with a feather. It sounded so cold, harsh, derogatory, hard-hearted, bitter and narrow minded, I really never expected to hear that from someone who I admired so much.
But a hard truth is, in order to even be helped in the financial sense, a person has to be ready mentally to be receptive to help … and becuase of a thousand factors … we don't have space to go into here … many people just aren't at the stage where they can be helped … at least in our foreigner sense of 'help'.
It's a sad fact that has to be recognized. Sometimes patience and understanding mean a lot more thna money, even to someone desperately poor. Thanks for sharing.
Good comments on the comments! 🙂 Yes, this girl, who is from a poor family, was actually too proud to work for someone other than an American, her nanay. And her poor parents had spoiled her by not making her help the family, and letting her only work be going to school. She is 'arte,' and didn't like having to wear the public school uniform. She had a job at a bakery for 2 weeks, and quit it to go to a youth camp, just like Roy said. But I didn't feel good saying 'no' without giving her a chance to make a good choice.
Like Dave said, we don't send anyone to college who doesn't come and live with us either. If we are going to make that kind of investment, even though it is fairly small by American standards, I want input into their lives while it is happening. And have to say, this has been a wonderful blessing! We have at least five girls who are like daughters to us. (Bread coming back?) That said, we have had some disappointments along the way too, like Bob, and have learned from it.
Hi Dave – Lots of good nuggets in your comment. I agree that this pay it forward thing is not like buying a T-bill, but the rewards can be so much better if the investment does pay off! I totally agree that it can take years before we will know how the return is on such an investment, because even if looks bad now, time has a way of turning things around.
Hi Dave – Your experience a few years back really mirrors some bad experiences that Feyma and I have had too. But, because one investment went sour, it doesn't mean that we have to stuff money in the mattress. I've had wonderful experiences in this sort of thing too.
Hi AmericanLola – You are right, great comments on the comments. But, one thing that I have noticed, and also intrigues me is that the discussion is all among "long time" people. People like me, you, Dave who have lived here for a long time already and have been able to get the experience under our belts. I kind of wonder what others are thinking… "they are crazy to even try this," or "when I'm there I want to try this too." It would be interesting for others to speak up.
Hi Bob
I have never heard the term “paying it forward" although it does exactly what it says on the tin!! I like it.
We (my wife actually) sponsored my niece to go to college during evenings after her normal working day. Thankfully she studied hard and has now got a good job and is helping her sister to attend college. Hopefully her sister will do the same to her younger sister.
I was surprissed how cheap education is (in UK terms), and how greatful my niece was for the support we gave her.
kamusta bob
ahh i know the feelings you and dave share.i also have a big family in philippines.my fiancee sister still attending collage and has 2 more years to go but she is doing great.im proud of her acomplishments.hmmmm wish i had that kind of opertunity myself when i was young.im paying 2 rentals there in mindanao and supporting 2 familys.i dont want that they will be hungry or need a place to live.it makes me feel good to help others in need.
thats why i allways liked your videos of giving during the christmas season there.
salamat bob
Hi Bacolod Barry – Yep, the education is very inexpensive here in comparison to Western costs, no doubt there. It makes helping almost a no brainer, provided that the recipient is the type who will try hard, and honor their commitment.
Hi Ron – Kumusta ka? Yeah, imagine how you and I would have felt if we had that kind of opportunity – free education paid for by a brother in law or uncle? I hope that everything works out for the best!
Hello Bob.Good subject,it covered all the experences i myself have been involved in.I dont loan money anymore but i may give a little away.I have started three small ventures so my wifes family can have a stream of income and all are still fruitful.We are curently sending three family members to university and the idea is to pay it forward.If you live here its a good system as you can see the end result all positive.Jim.
Hi James – Yeah, I think that this is an important subject for all of us to consider. It sounds like you and I have been on similar footing too, I've done some of the kind of thing that you mention too. Sometimes it is very rewarding on a personal level. Other times it has been a minor disaster for me. All in all it's a positive experience, though. I hope it's been positive for you too!
paying forward is how they do it in my wifes family,i am paying for two nieces college right now when its time for there younger sisters to go to college they already understand whats going to be exspected of them once there sisters are ready to attend !i believe this is the best way of helping and they will 100% pay when there timecomes to pay for there younger sisters they would lose face if they didnt pay!
Hi Dave – No problema with your optimism. I, too, thought of long haul benefit ship arriving after the tempest-tossed voyage through the typhoons of life.
So far, they've only been law suits! 😆
That's why we switched to the general public, and not necessarily family. (You must remember, though, that in a small town out in the provinces, everyone is related by some degree and the entire town is extended family, so I guess we're still helping family! 😉 )
If you would like to assist and support someones education there is a different way of doing it that may avoid the pitfalls mentioned in some of the comments here.
I was quite amazed in finding there are so many schools, colleges and universities in Mindanao ( the only part of Philippines that I am really familiar with ). I have visited some of these education facilities, one of them more than once. I toured the entire facility, talked with students, faculty and staff, met the Chancellor and had a lengthly conversation. I am quite impressed.
Additionally, I knew of very qualified students that had to drop out of their university studies due to lack of financial support form their family, lack of part time employment to earn tuition etc. It is a shame to hear of things like this especially when a student is in their last year before graduating and being able to have their hard earned degree.
I am familiar with Scholarships as I started one here in the USA at a nearby University several years ago. There are students here in the USA that also have to put their college or university study " on hold " due to lack of financing. Naturally the cost of University in the USA is drastically different from the tuition cost of going to a University in The Philippines.
Just about any individual or group can establish and fund a scholarship at a school, college or university of their choice. It does Not have to be a " Full Scholarship " where the scholarship pays for someones entire college career. In the USA, scholarship funding or donation is a fully legal tax deduction. I am not sure how that would work in The Philippines.
If you establish a scholarship, you as the originator or donor call the shots ! There are many specifications and parameters you can set to have your scholarship awarded to a particular kind of student majoring in a particular course of study, and also in what year of attendance you want the scholarship awarded.
You can put just about any ( reasonable ) name or title on your scholarship that you like, use your own name, use your business name ( makes a great promotion for your business ). If a group of people want to set up a scholarship you can put your group name on it. etc.
Some typical parameters ( that you set up ) could include:
For a student majoring in : Nursing, Teaching, or IT
The student should have a higher GPA so there will be no hinderance to the students graduating the following April.
The student should be from a working class family and demonstrate the need for financial assistance.
The student should be a resident of ( city or town name or state )
These are just a few of the examples of things you can specify. I specify that my scholarships be awarded to students in their final year of study, less chance of them having to drop out and not graduate that way. Also , if they have worked that hard and get that close to graduating the scholarship awards them for their past 3 years of hard work and getting the grades !
In addition to the financial assistance, a scholarship is a way of awarding recognition to a student which is also important now, and in the future as something a student can put on their resume or CV.
By allowing the University, college etc. to select the student that most complies with the parameters you list in your scholarship, this relieves you of having others feel you are showing favoratism to one individual or another. From reading some of the comments here, this could be a big plus !
Establishing a scholarship can be most rewarding to the scholarship Donor as well as the Recipient in many ways.
I was so impressed with one of the universities that I toured in Mindanao, I established a scholarship there which has been very well received by both the Educational facility and the first recipient. I was fortunate to be able to meet my first scholarship recipient on a visit that followed after I started the scholarship and I was very well pleased with the selection that was made.
As I have learned from this website ( and others ) forigners can not own things such as real estate or businesses in The Philippines. If you want to put your name on something there or " hang out your shingle " this is something you "can" do.
For me, I wanted to leave something behind or create something useful for people in a place in Mindanao I have become quite fond of and at a distance, somewhat attached to. Dealing with individuals, as demonstrated in some of the comments here can at times have a reverse effect or could be cause of controversy. Establishing and funding a scholarship at one of the universities I visited is one of the best things I could think of doing. And yes, it has been a rewarding experience for me in many ways.
Hi Paul – Is it true that there have been lawsuits? Wow… can you share anything on that?
Hi Bob NY – A scholarship is also a nice way to make an impact. Great job!
Kamusta ka Bob,
I knew you would point that out to me…lol..when I put "immediate family". Believe me, I know what you mean Bob. 🙂
Rose's family have "payed it forward" many times, when it comes to helping family, whether it be education, or something else financially.
Most of those family members aren't around till they need help from someone…so not sure how helpful Roses father is to them anymore.
I discussed this with Rose today, and she told me a few things her father has done for other members of the family in the past.
Salamat kaayo,
Danny 🙂
Hi Danny – 😀 See! Yeah, family is a huge and very close thing here, and you will experience that.
bob i think its great/. thats how my wife went through school through her older sisters that had already made it, and in return she sent her younger brothers through school , and now her and i are able to send her neices through school as well as hed nephews, they are more guided from me though because of my trade and my intrest in the philippines from my trade/. nephews only because the nieces are more in nursing field.bob the great thing is that all who go to school will help the rest of the family to go to school also , its like a silent code that the family uses. im glad to help just because i have saw that it works. and works well.
Hi Jerry – I like this system too. I think it also helps bring the family closer together than families in the States.
hellow again, i dont know how all famlys work it but in our family the younger grow up knowing who will be sending them to school and in return they will have to do the same.some day
Hi jerry – same in our family too. I think it is kind of standard like that.
wour right bob, in our case with two of my wifes brothers they had some trouble with life and with school and the next thind they knew they were home facing all 0f the family for a real talking to. and that worked realy well. they are today two real profesionals who realy respect there family. i wish we were able to have that that kind of respect in all familys in the us.its almost un real.but it helps to have a sister in law who is a nun..
Hi jerry – Yep, the family set them straight! Ha ha… something like that just doesn't happen in the States!
good to go here Bob..sending 3 kids to school now so we will see what happens ..Phil n Jess
Hi Phil – Good luck to you, I hope that everything works out well! I'm sure it will…
Bob,
I've been paying it forward for years since i finished college there in cebu, now living in the US i sent two member of the family to college. Now in the process of sending my only niece to nursing school in davao.
vanessa
Hi vPawly – Congrats for that! It's a good feeling, don't you think?
Hi Vanessa – I know the feeling. It's not always easy, but almost always rewarding!
Hello bob, very nice article…it reminds me of what I had learned from my late father.."To avoid resentment and worry over ingratitude, 1.) Instead of worrying about ingratitude, let's expect it. Let's remember that Jesus healed ten lepers in one day—and only one thanked Him. Why should we expect more gratitude than Jesus got? 2.)Let's remember that the only way to find happiness is not to expect gratitude, but to give for the joy of giving. 3) Let's remember that gratitude is a "cultivated" trait; so if we want our children to be grateful, we must train them to be grateful.
Hi USA-jane – Interesting thoughts and lessons that you received from your father.
I suppose there are ‘success’ stories to be found of those paying-forward, depending on the values one family has compared to another. My girlfriend does fairly well financially, with several extra properties (and the taxes that go with them) but usually has more money than she needs and can afford many luxuries. For that reason, she is the first person everyone in her family goes to for help. Even some people who ‘claim’ they are family.
Of all the people she has helped to either start a business, send to college, get a mariner’s license, taken in as helpers she didn’t really need, paid for weddings, hospital bills.. I’d say only 10% either paid her back or “paid it forward”. One brother even went 3 years using two of her apartments without paying rent while using one for his own business. But 90% either established a business or career and did not care about what they owed, did not help out someone else in the family or, even worse.. sold off all the equipment she bought them for a business because they had no intention of actually ‘working’ for a living.
I believe in helping others, don’t get me wrong. However in observing my girlfriend’s last two years of experiences in this area, I see a LOT of money that simply went right down the drain, benefiting no one in the end. Perhaps other families are more appreciative. But I just don’t see it with hers, sad to say.