I have had this article in mind for a number of months now, but have been hesitant to write it, as it is somewhat of a delicate subject. I feel that those of you who have yet to become expats will have a hard time understanding the feelings of somebody (like me!) who has lived abroad for a long time now. I will try to approach this as delicately as I can, and I ask for your understanding. Let’s not fight when it comes to the comments, if we differ in opinion, let’s talk it over and see if we can reach a feeling of mutual understanding, OK?
My topic today is summed up in the title of this article. Where do your loyalties lie? Let’s say it like this… hypothetically, of course…
If some kind of disagreement erupted between the Philippines and the United States tomorrow, where would your loyalties lie? Let’s say that somehow the two countries were to be at war against each other, what would you do?
That’s a tough situation. Let me start out by saying a couple of things:
- I don’t believe that such a thing would happen within my lifetime, but anything is possible.
- I understand that all of my readers are not from the United States, but I am, and the biggest percentage of my readers are, so for the sake of this discussion, just substitute your country where I said “United States.”
I am proud to be an American. I love the United States of America. There are things I disagree with in the USA sometimes (as I am sure we all do), but that does not lessen my degree of love for the Country that I originated from.
I am also proud to be living in the Philippines. I have even considered, and am still considering, obtaining Philippine Citizenship. I love the Philippines. I have been here for a decade now, and have no thought of ever leaving the country. I love the people of the Philippines. There are some parts of the country that I disagree with, some parts of the Culture that I have a problem with, some things that annoy me about the Philippines without a doubt. However, this does not lessen my love of the Philippines.
So, if there were some kind of major disagreement between my country of citizenship, and my adopted country, where would I stand? It is a very difficult thing for me to even consider. I have deep conflicts when I think about this. I am not even sure that I can give an answer to my own question, to be perfectly honest.
I suppose that it would be deeply important to know first the reason for the conflict, or what it was all about. My first inclination would be to carefully consider the situation, and decide in my mind who I thought was right, given the question at hand. I would probably side with whichever country I felt was being more honest and forthright in the dispute. My first inclination would not be to automatically support the USA. Ten years ago, or more, when I lived in the States, my first inclination would be that the USA was right, regardless of the dispute. However, having been away from the US for a decade, I no longer feel that way. I am not anti-American at all, but I think I am more objective and would want to examine the situation before deciding. Nothing would be “automatic” at all anymore.
My other question was what if there was a war between the two countries? This is extremely unlikely, but, what if? Well, again, it would depend on the reason, the cause, I suppose. My reaction, though, would not be to just leave immediately and return to the USA. There would be a lot of considerations:
- What caused the conflict?
- If there are Americans staying here, how are they being treated?
- Does it look like this is something that will be resolved quickly, or drawn out?
Plenty to consider. Like I have said several times, it is doubtful that any of this would even come to pass.
What about you, what would you do? Where do your loyalties lie?
That is a difficult question Bob. Without thinking about all the other questions you posted, I’m inclined to answer that my loyalties lie with the US. For the simple reason that when I became a US Citizen, I took an oath. Yet when people ask about my ethnicity, I always answer Filipino (not Filipino-American). 30+ yrs ago, you could only be a citizen of 1 country (unlike today when you can have dual citizenships).
Hi vicki – Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I imagine that these kind of questions would be even more difficult for somebody like you who is Filipino, but now an American citizen. It would be very difficult, I can only sympathize!
Lay very low, and swear you’re really from Canada. J/K
Actually, there is no real good answer to the question. Pull for the Phillipines, and there will be Americans who will hate you, plus Phillipine people who will question your reasoning, or hate you for just being an American. Of course, if you pull for the U.S., you may have to have an escape plan.
Hi John – I would tend to agree with your thoughts. One thing, though… if you are a foreigner here, you are automatically considered to be American, no matter what country you are from! 😆
After a little more thought, probably the best one could hope for is to get deported, after having all valuables conficated. This is war, after all. If you were somehow allowed to remain in the Phillipines, without being locked up,and without a peso to your name, you can bet that the U.S. would not allow any money to be transferred to you while you were there.
So, it looks like one would be up s**t creek, without a paddle.
Hi John – Financial considerations would certainly become important!
That’s an interesting thought on the finances as well as the main ‘loyalty’ thought. No war is needed, in the US the Philippines is frequently on money laindering watch lists (often becuase Phiulippine law doesn’t allow banks here to relaease information to the US). Eevn Switzerland capitulated, but the Philippines is so far holding firm.
The issues (etiher real or imagined) with terrorist froup is a real-world scenario as well. It would take bery little for the US to someday say, “No money to the Philippines”. (and many of the laws involved are secret in and of themselves). That’s why I advise people never to live on US ATM or money transfer remittances as their sole income here. Could be shut off at any time, for much less cause than a war or an open disagreement.
Back to the main point … I have no thoughts of becoming a Philippine citizen, if such a scenario as Bob proposed were to become real, I’d be in the US faster than I can type this, but my wife is a dual citizen and it would certainly be a struggle for her I think.
One last consideration for those folks younger than I who might still be interested in those archaic old things called “jobs”. In the US these days, even in many jobs which never required a security clearance in the past, security has become hugely important. Living abroad or even marrying a foreign citizen will not automatically bar you from a clearance, but it will certainly become a consideration, and often requires going all the way to formal adjudication (a hearing before a Federal judge where you don’t have the rights of even a normal accused … you have to sign that all away just to apply for a clearance).
I’ve been reviewing a number of these adjudications for another project and the ones where foreign influence comes into the picture with a negative result almost always revolve around cohabitation without evidence of marriage and TnT status of foreign partner or close relatives.
The State Department allows dual citizenship, but the DoD/DHS/DoJ etc. may not agree when it comes to a clearance … just a thought in the overall puzzle.
Hi Dave – Wow, certainly all of those things are things that we should all keep in mind, no doubt.
So, when you said:
I am just wondering… how big of an event would it take for you to decide to go back right away? I mean, I mentioned just a disagreement and such, would that be enough? I kind of think not, but would be interested to hear your thinking.
How big an event? That’s really hard to say, Bob. But keep something in mind … the main reason I would be heading for the States given enough cause would be financial rather than nationalistic. Self-preservation, if you will.
I have many talents, but one that I haven’t mastered yet is how to starve gracefully. If intentional banking/money transfer were cut of … and foreign assets (like foreigner-owned bank accounts) were frozen (a very common thing in significant international disagreements … often happens long before actual conflict breaks out as a recognized tactic of diplomatic negotiations), how long would either you or I eat?
I understand, Dave. Thankfully, I just don’t foresee this ever happening, so we probably don’t have much to worry about.
Hi Bob;
As Vicki said “That’s a difficult question!” As a former Military man, one would think that I’d grab my flag and start waving it, but that’s just not true.
As with you I have strong ties to the Philippines, and would take a wait and see attitude. I would also ask “What will the Filipinos living all over America do?” How would they be treated, and would they bailout and return home?
Hi Paul – I was hoping you would share your thoughts, given your military past. When I wrote this, I was also thinking what Filipinos in the States would do. Think back to WW2…. we had camps that Japanese were put in, and such. I would hope that all countries have moved beyond that kind of thing, but when war happens, who knows what could ensue. I just hope we never see such a scenario.
Bob;
Those internment camps are still an embarrassment to our Nation. They could never happen again, and I mean NEVER!
But, that’s not to say that they couldn’t, or wouldn’t happen in other countries.
True, John.
Yes, I agree, Paul! Never again.
What about Filipinos who are active duty US Military? How would they react? My husband is active duty Air Force and this scenario would be a difficult one for him. Thank goodness it’s all hypothetical.
Now that would indeed be a tough one, Vicki! A Filipino who is in the US Armed Forces… wow! Tough decision.
Hi Bob,
Thats one hell of a hypothetical question.
I would certainly have to give that some serious thought,especially if married to a filipina citizen.
One thing i do know,i would be to old to fight for any side,they wouldn’t have me.
One thing that came to mind regarding your question,was how the USA rounded up and interned all the Japanese living in the US during WW2 regardless of whether they were citizens or not.
Maybe,just maybe,i would abstain from taking sides,and both of us take the first flight out to maybe Singapore or other,and wait it out.
There are certainly no easy answers.
regards Chas.
Hi chasdv – Yes, I was also thinking about those internment camps that the US put the Japanese in during WW2. I wonder if somebody like me would end up in such a place. I certainly would not want to have that happen! My inclination, as I think about it, would be to just stay right here in Davao and continue on with my life. However, you just don’t know what kind of events would be happening in such a scenario, so you can’t say for sure what you would do.
That is a tough question Bob, and everyone who has answered had good points. I guess at first the obvious answer as you said would be to side with the ones who seemed the most sincere and upfront about what the dispute was about. But everyone would have different reasons–for example do you have children living with you or abroad, and how would it affect them? As Vicki said, how much of one country or the other do you in your heart feel the most loyal to? As John and Paul said how would you be treated in the country you chose to stay or go to, and if someone wanted to bail, how would they be able to do that? Also, if you’re an expat, how much have you invested in your place in the Philippines–financially, emotionally etc. and what are your feelings of your loyalty to your adopted family, neighbors and friends that you might leave behind? What would await you in your decision to stay or leave, either way? Too much to consider! Let’s hope it never happens!
I think that this question is an outgrowth of what you might choose in possibly becoming a Philippine citizen or not, and one that all expats will have to consider or wrestle with sooner or later. That would be another good topic: Why would one make a particular choice in citizenship and for what reasons?
Hi queeniebee – Yes, I am kind of surprised at the response. I was thinking that a lot of people would be very gung-ho… go American, anti-Philippines and such. But, everybody seems to be much like me, reflecting to decide what they would do or feel. I kind of feel that is a good sign, really.
hi bob–i would try to make sure what the fight was about and side with the one i thought was in the right–it would be much like the civil war in America– without the cause known there can be no question–with the path i see American taking now toward (socialism)–it would make the decision easier–i will always pick the side of freedom
Hi James – Hey, you have your picture up now! That’s new, isn’t it?
Yeah, the current trends in each country would be something to consider, for sure.
Bob, As usual you do not shy from controversy. I totally respect your thoughts and those of the others that have commented. I have a few questions though and these are not just for yourself but for your readers. If your an expat in the Philippines what is the source of your income? What country gave you the opportunity to live the life you live now? Assume your in Manila and something really bad happened and you needed assistance-are you running to the U.S. Embassy or the Philippine Government for help? Look at the U.S. and the Philippines as your parents-which one will you seek for assistance, guidance, etc??? I know the answer for myself would be the U.S… I love the Philippines for what it can provide me in my retired life. Its wonderful people, its low cost of living, its scenic beauty are beyond discussion. The great thing about this topic is that its a hypothetical. It will never happen. A more likely scenario is an invasion by China or a resurgent Japan and the U.S. once again doing helping its Filipino friends and family. So if that day comes that foreign troops are in control of the streets, raping your wives and daughters (think WW2) I know how happy you will be to look off in the horizon and see those Marine storming ashore to restore the life you love. I can promise you they won’t be Filipino Marines. Ron
Hi Ron – Guess what…. in all of my life, and all of my years of visiting the Philippines and also living here…. I have never set foot in the US Embassy before, nor have I ever even seen the place! So, going to the Embassy would not necessarily be my first consideration.
Like you, I am happy that this is only hypothetical! 😉
There is little chance that these two democracies will ever go to war or have a significant falling out that would bring about a break in diplomatic relations. Democracies these days tend to settle their differences across a table or through the good offices of the U.N. I think that includes even China, the Japanese have even less reason. China under a more aggressive and less patient regime may do something about the Spratleys.
Having said that I can envisage a scenario where Mindanao breaks away from the Republic and becomes more and more influenced by Islam and perhaps adopts Sharia Law, develops ties with Iran or Syria.
The question is ; Would the USA allow this to happen? Is the Pentagon now thinking along the lines of the domino theory of the late 50’s and 60’s and instead of seeing a communist threat to SE Asia is seeing a radical Islamic threat? Would they intervene in a breakaway in either a military or economic way?
This scenario is highly improbable.
As a Brit I see even less reason for GB and the Philippines to fall out. A possible motive may be if an ultra right wing government starts deporting foreign workers but then I have heard we will be an Islamic republic in 50 years but by then I will be past caring.
Hi John – I agree, that the chances of this are small, and I am thankful for that.
I can foresee a time when Mindanao would become independent from the Philippines, and I can also foresee shariah law too. Neither of those scenarios scares me. However, I cannot see a time when such an Independent Mindanao would ally itself with Iran and other extremist countries, though. I guess anything is possible, but I do not see that. I would expect that there could be a Mindanao/Brunei/Malaysia/Indonesia alliance, but nothing extremist.
If such a scenario happened as you describe I would be gone so fast my shadow wouldn’t even know I wasn’t there anymore. Shariah law scares me to death and I would never willingly live in a country under that system.
Hi Louis – I would prefer not to live under Shariah law, but I don’t fear it. There are lots of countries that are relatively peaceful and quiet who have shariah law. Sure, it can be mis-used, and in that case I also would not want to live under the system.
Well, I don’t want to sound like the voice of doom, but Sharia Law is very much alive an well in the Philippines … and not just down there in Mindanao which is where people immediately thin of whenever anything Muslim is mentioned. There is an established Sharia Court in Quezon City, perhaps 10 miles from our home here in Marilao (just outside Metro Manila) and there are several others in Luzon as well as other provinces.
And they don’t only deal with people of the Islamic faith, either. A Filipino person very well known to me, and a baptized, practicing Catholic, just got a fully legal divorce, recognized by the NSO, from her Muslim husband. (and they say there is no divorce in the Philippines). This one took only about two weeks and cost something like P20k, not even close to the time frame and costs of a normal legal annulment.
So while I understand the comments being made are “what if” scenarios based on Sharia law becoming the law that affects foreigners and non-Islamic Filipinos, bear in mind that Sharia Law is already well established and legally operating here in the Philippines.
Hi Dave – Shariah law is also used in the ARMM region as well. It’s really no big deal, I’ve never heard of any major miscarriages of justice.
Devoid of any henious act by my adopted Country and no persecution by host Country, I think where my family is happiest, and where our hearts wish to remain decides where we would go. I love my Country but I am a child of this world ,is kinda how I look at it.
I like your outlook, brian!
Hi Bob – If it was just me, I suppose I’d just stay here at home and wait for any “knock at the door” that might come. If things did look too dicey, I might even take to the mountains and live the “hide and seek” lifestyle.
Baket ko (Asawa ko) [my Wife], on the other hand, would probably have us on the first flight or sailing out of here at the first note of discord. 😉
Hi Paul – Very interesting. I haven’t even talked to Feyma about this, and not sure if she read this article yet. In my mind, I don’t expect that Feyma would want to bug out right away, though. I’ll have to ask her about that.
Hi Bob, before responding my Filipino husband and I discussed the topic and he pretty much felt the same way as I did, and had no immediate loyalty or leanings towards one country over another, although we are both American citizens. He too thought that there are so many gray areas to consider.
I’m not really surprised with other responses either though, because like Brian said we have stepped out of just being citizens of one country in the world. I think the shared interest fascination love for the Philippines separates us from others who have not traveled or lived or spent time here, and can more clearly see their loyalty with their one home country.
Hi Queenie – For me, I would have to say that I am like you that I don’t lean to one side or the other, at least not strongly. A decade ago, I would have surely leaned toward the US. I feel that now, something is tugging at me that I would possibly lean toward the Philippines in the future, but for now, I’m in the middle. I suppose that as Brian said, and you agreed with, maybe we are all moving away from being tied to a single country, and more citizens of the world. Seems strange to me, but I think it’s correct.
While I agree with you Queeniebee and also with rest, I feel too that being naturalized strengthens one’s loyalty to a country other than one’s home country. I love the Phil but I love the US more.
So if a war breaks out between the Phil & the US, I would berate the Phil Pres to behave. There. Now we have world peace. 🙂
Hi roy – I was hoping that we would also get some Filipinos replying to this one, so I am happy that you added your thoughts. Very interesting thoughts too.
Hi Roy, That’s probably a true feeling for many people too. I’m relieved to know that you’ll help us out if we ever need it!
The sad reality of your question is this: Governments make the war..a few people of power not the majority of the people… We as human beings here Americans or English, Australians, Chinesee, Fillipino’s or who ever you are, we all love each other here, But,should War happen and Americans kill Fillipino’s and Fillipino’s kill Americans, or if any other country came to war against each other, theres no choice to the question of what you would do. It would be a shame, but that’s the way it would be.
Hi Lenny – I would have to disagree about there being no choice. I personally don’t think that the Philippines would force you to leave the country. But, I suppose anything could happen, though.
well for me it is a easy answer the Philippines is my home and i would do my best for this country and its people .
but saying that if we look at past history we would all be rounded up and put in a camp until peace return.
as the U S A did to the japanese citizens and the japanese did to the foreign citizens here .
Hi stef – I don’t think that there is any precedent that the Philippines would employ such camps, and I personally doubt that they would.
bob i think you right there but would it be safer in a camp then being on the streets ?
Hi stef – Hard to say, probably no way to know until such a situation would actually happen.
If war loomed between the RP and the States I would have to be out of the country with my wife ASAP. I don’t want to be a POW in the RP. Think what happened to the Yanks in WW2. So many died at the hands of Japan. What makes anyone think is would be different with a war between your two loves? I am too old for a forced labor camp. I wouldn’t last long.
Cheers,
Gary
Hi Gary – If you and your wife went to the States, she could then end up being incarcerated. What about that? Would you go to a 3rd country then?
Wow Bob, lots of food for thought, however in terms of actual war how long do you suppose it would last … the US is a world super power… the Philippines well lets just say less then super, realistcly if the US wanted to take over the Philippines I would say that could probably be accomplished in lets say a week ? the US armed forces make up a larger census group then the republic of the Philippines all together so I say like you i have no preset agenda but i’m going with the guys with the bigger guns 😉
Hi Tommy – How long do you think it will take the US to take over Afghanistan? Ha ha… US is a super power, but they can’t take over a rag tag bunch of terrorists who want to rule Afghanistan. I suspect that it would take a lot longer than a week to take over the Philippines. I am not talking anti-US, just stating the truth.
the USA may be a super power but the Philippine people would never stop fighting look what happen in WW2 the Japanese took over but the people kept fighting till the USA returned and without them it would have cost a lot more U S lives to get the Japanese out.
My point exactly, stef! 😉
During the Japanese occupation US citizens were put into camps, the most notorious being in the Intramuros in Manila. Best to be in your home country in the event of war.
Yes, that’s true. However, I was talking about Filipinos putting foreigners into camps. What you are talking about is Japanese occupiers putting foreigners into camps. That’s not the scenario that I was talking about.
kamusta bob
hmmmmm very interesting article here,i have to agree with you that the usa is not allways right thats for sure.i also love philippines but i think if there was conflict between the 2 countrys that expats would become targets.just like alot of muslims here in the usa.i dont think muslims are bad,i just think extremist wanted everyone to think we all hated muslims but thats not even close to being true.i just think it would be very difficult there for expats if that happened,i remember when them marines raped the girl near subic bay one time when i was in phil and i noticed alot of filipino people were mad to any kano around that area.in which i kind of understand.it upset me as well.this is a tough one to answer so i would say to stay with what you feel is true and good and be respectful to all mankind,,,nice article.
salamat bob
Hi Ron – Keep in mind…. the marines did not rape that girl. All charges were dropped.
I personally don’t feel that expats would be targeted, but it would have to be seen.
Bob;
Thank you for clearing up that Marine Rape issue. The press was quick to accuse, and little mention when he was proved innocent and the young lady recanted.
Absolutely, Paul. I don’t know for sure what happened that night, but given the way things were handled by authorities and by the girl herself, it certainly is not right to say the fellow did it. She did recant after all! This was really a big issue here on LiP.
Bob: Though I think such a scenario highly unlikely, it would be very difficult to even think of what I would do should it occur. My wife and son are Filipino, and I would probably act in their best interest, government or no government. There is currently a significant number of Filipinos that simply do not like Americans or other foreigners… They aren’t really vocal, and their presence is hidden behind all the “smiles” talk, but they are there. As an expat, naturalized or not, your safety could seriously be jeapardized, given the history of mob “justice” that has occured here on occasion in the past.
Hi John – Interesting that your thinking and mine are almost polar opposites of each other. I agree with you that there are some very anti-American Filipinos. However, I feel the number is small. I also feel that they are VERY vocal. Look at the people who are constantly demonstrating at the Embassy. Anyway, like you, I consider this highly unlikely, just something that came to mind one day. and you never know what may come to pass.
Bob
OK so what if you decided to stay in RP that may be the easy part.
Think about Dave Starr’s comment. What if the US cutoff any Banking relations with the RP, any Money Transfers,any Mail Forewarding services, PayPal etc, you would still have to support your Family there in the RP.
Or fly back to the US having been out of the Job Market for 10 yrs, no home to return to, limited savings(Im probably wrong you are probably loaded) then having to start a new life again.
Hypothetically speaking this scenario, you would be screwed.
Hi Neal – Whoa! You’re making a lot of assumptions there… 😆 Firstly, I am not loaded…
Secondly, I have business interests that generate income for me which does not pass through the USA. I believe that I could continue earning income that does not pass through the USA.
Bob
I figured you would get a kick out of the loaded part.
Lets just hope that RP US conflict can of worms never gets opened.
Hi Neal – 😉
BTW, Nice Avatar!
Thanks.
Now you have seen my 1 and only Tie.
Tie??? What’s that?
Hi Bob
In the very unlikely event of there being a war between USA, or my country UK, and The Phills, I don`t think it would matter where your allegiance lay because what would probably happen is what happened in UK at the outbreak of World war 2 with Germany in 1939, all people of German origin were interned for the duration. That is probably what would happen to USA citizens who remained in RP after this hypothetical war was declared! Anyway, that would make my wife my enemy, which would be most undesirable!(:-))
All the best
Malcolm
Hi Malcolm – I personally don’t think that there would be internment camps. I believe that we have moved beyond that. There are no internment camps today for Afghanis or Iraqis. Anyway, it is very unlikely that the scenario would happen anyway.
A question like this makes me grateful my home floats, and is capapble of sailing any ocean at any time. My decision would rely on exactly what was happening when & where. In a couple of forums I claim to be a citizen of this planet, and that is where my loyalty stays. I do not follow party lines as I am a thinker of what is right is right. What is wrong is just plain wrong. My thoughts would be the same in a conflict between 2 countries. & we all know the U.S.A. can make some pretty dumb mistakes. I use Iraq as an example…….i2f
Hi imagine – I don’t think there is a country in the world that doesn’t make mistakes.
Hi Everyone;
While I was in the U.S. Military from 1964-1986, and a child of the 60’s, I’d often wonder what would happen if the ‘PEOPLE” just told their governments “NO” I’m not angry with that country or it’s people so just leave them alone. I was brought up on charges in the 60’s for meeting some Russian sailors in Italy and having a great time with them. (When I hired a lawyer and demanded a Courts Martial, all was dropped.) Was I surprised years later when I was promoted to Senior Chief?
When it was mentioned that the U.S. could storm ashore and win in a week, I smiled, as yes we could defeat a government, but you’ll never defeat “The People.” Or run the country after we won the battle, The U.S. has proved we’re not good at running other countries too many times. The best it could do is carpet bomb a country into the Stone Age and then go home.
I love both the U.S. of A. and the Republic of the Philippines, but like me their also flawed. Since I feel this discussion is pure conjecture, my plan is to stay here in paradise, open a cold beer with my Pinoy buddy this afternoon and we’ll and salute both flags on the sign above my front door.
Hi Paul – Wow! I would sure enjoy hearing more of the story about your meeting with the Russian sailors. That must have been a very, very interesting day!
I was never in the service, but back in the 80’s, I had an opportunity to spend a day with a Russian fellow. He was “vacationing” on a sort of “official” trip to the USA, and we spent a day just getting to know each other. Some of the things that he told me were quite fascinating, and I enjoyed spending time with him and learning from the things he told me. I can only imagine what kinds of things you and your Russian counterparts talked about! I wonder what happened to those guys?
Thanks for sharing your story, Paul, it was very interesting.
Bob;
The reason my Captain knew about my time with them, was because they came to my ship in full uniform of the Russian Navy, to ask me if I remembered where they left the 3 Vesper Motor Scooters they’d rented. I told them the name and location of last bar we were in. Blame it on the Vodka!
Ha ha… that’s a classic, Paul!
Hi Bob- Its a very interesting question you pose regarding loyalties.
Norman Tebbitt a UK politician once said if you want to see loyalties being tested one should visit Lords cricket ground when England are playing Pakistan and you will see just how many Pakistani Brit citizens support England?The answer being none.
You can take the person out of a country but not the country out of the person because thats culture for you.
It was interesting what you said about meeting the Russian in the 80’s he for sure was in the party and was not in the US for a vacation but I’m sure you gave him lots of information to take home with him.Only diplomats,sportsmen,and ballet dancers and the KGB were allowed out in those days until Glasnos in the 90’s.
Regards.
Jim.
Hi Jim – Actually, Glasnost started in the mid-80’s when Gorbachev was in Office. The Soviet Union fell apart in 1991. I think your times are a bit off! My friend visited in 1989. He was not on vacation, but he also was not “in the party” as you say. I know why he was in the USA. I did give him a lot of info. He left knowing a lot about my family, our mutual hobby in Amateur Radio and such. I doubt that any of that was useful to his handlers! 😉
Hmmm. Very interesting. So that explains the quantum leap in the USSR’s Amateur Radio technology in the late 1980s. We wondered what the cause was – suspected Glasnost, but now we know better. 😆
Bob if the US and Philippines were to go to war all the US would have to do would be to give every Filipino a green card, 20k USD and free airfare to the United States end of the war no one left here to fight except the political elite who control the country
Tom
Hi Tom – A lot of Filipinos are very patriotic, and would not accept that deal in my opinion. Many would, of course, but there certainly would be “no one left here.”
I’ve actually posed the same question to fil-chinese friends of mine & received some interesting answers (of course, tweaking it to a china v. rp question).
On my end, except for the past year (i spent that time in Mexico & the Philippines), i’ve lived in the US for 12 years. I’m also a longtime naturalized US citizen and recently got my dual citizenhip a few months ago. I pay US taxes, passionately follow US issues, vote and, everyday, I miss my normal routines in the US (dog parks, how I miss thee).
I used to be hardcore with defending my home country and I still have strong loyalties to it, but age & experience has taught me to think first rather than be blinded by patriotism. History has taught us that war makes fascists of men and i want to believe i am smarter than that.
But if an answer MUST be squeezed out of me, it would be for RP. My roots still run deep here and I undoubtedly still identify myself with being pinoy. It’s easy to root for the underdog too:)
Hi Macky – I read through your comment with great anticipation. I thought you were going to go the other way, was surprised where you landed in the end.
hah! it must be either a shining example of creative writing or an awkward misleading piece. i’d like to be under the illusion that it was the latter.
Interesting post, Bob – I can’t resist wading in with my take on the subject, even though I still live in Florida and feel sort of like an outsider. The Philippines and America declaring war? That would be like a piss-ant declaring war on an Elephant!
A more likely scenario would be along the lines of the growing Muslim population taking over the Philippines and America coming to the aid of the Christians left with their heads still attached. In the big picture, you can’t possibly think the Muslims are going to be satisfied with living in an Autonomous Region forever do you? The massive stockpile of weapons in the ARMM were there for much bigger things than protection against political enemies or other rebels. (As in overthrowing the government).
That being said, I have, sadly, more or less preempted the need to address your question by deciding NOT to continue my retirement plans for the Davao Region. For me it is most sad, as I had already packed most everything I wanted to ship (before the massacre) and identified the best airline fares on the Internet. Perhaps I will revisit the possibility of reconsidering such a move after the dust settlers on this Spring’s elections.
It is easy for me to make such a radical decision (not to retire there) since I am not, by design, currently blessed with a Filipino wife or GF.
As for the post above about ATM, money withdrawal, etc., they would all be mostly correct. You would most likely have a very short window of opportunity to get money from abroad, and even then, such money might be worthless. Chaos would rule all aspects of your lives.
On a more positive note, hope everyone is able to stick by your new year’s resolutions. For you Bob, depending on the proceeds left over when I sell my home, I will probably still visit the Philippines (along with Thailand) and if so, I will see if I can get down to Davao for a visit.
Take care –Rich–
Hi Rich – I must say, I’m kind of shocked at your change of plans. What happened that caused you to change your mind?
HI Bob,
What caused me to change my mind? Six months ago, I was bragging to all my friends that I would retire from work at the kennedy space center, sell my home and retire in the Philippines, enjoy the good life, you know the story, live happily ever after.
Well, I have been doing some deep research digging lately (especially since the massacre), evaluating that decision, and I think I may take a sharp right turn and be heading for Thailand rather than the Philippines, or just sitting tight and remain living here in the USA.
In my case it is not a matter of money – with a pension, social security and a fat IRA, I only need about half of what I make to live comfortably here. Any way, the more I “dig”, the more it becomes clear to me that the Philippines are getting worse – not better, as a place to retire. I know some of you will disagree, but that is my perception. Corruption is rampant at every level of the government, Muslim influences are getting more bolder by the year (Muslim population is growing at a greater rate then the rest of the Philippines). I came across an interesting chart having to do with National Corruption, on a scale of 1 to 180 (New Zealand is rated 1st (best), the US comes in at 19, Thailand 84, the Philippines 139, and with Afghanistan and Somalia sitting at the bottom with a rating of 179 and 180). Data taken from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
Any way, here is my plan… Sell my home and never again “own” real estate (too easy to get burned in a natural disaster), put things in storage and take a few months to visit Chiang Mai, Thailand (over 20,000 expats live there), then when it comes time to take that Visa run, fly to Davao for a month or so. After that, the 23 hour flight back to the US will give me plenty of time to decide on which of these three places I want to call home.
Yes, I know, Thailand is screwed up in many ways too, but it is a photographer’s dream with thousands of temples, fantastic food, a good jumping off point for visits to Angkor Wat, places like that. I spent a year in Vietnam around Nha Trang and I would like to visit there as well.
It’s going to be a busy year …
–Rich–
Hi Rich – I’m saddened by your decision. I also think your reasoning is wrong. However, we all get to make our own choices, and you said you intend to visit both Thailand and Davao. I hope you get a chance to see it first hand, I think your decision may change.
Hi Bob,
I see that this war between the USA and RP wasn’t in your predictions for 2010 so I guess you’re OK for the time being!
My opinion is that you will not have a choice in the matter should it come to war as that choice will be forced on you by the situation. Namely you will identified by the Philippine government as an enemy alien and ordered out of the country or interned for “your own safety” on some small island with other Americans.
Let’s see how hypothetically a war could come about in the first place:
1. a massive drought in SE Asia causes widespread famine throughout the Philippines.
2. the RP government is overwhelmed and calls a snap election.
3. A young army officer comes out from behind to lead a populist, Hugo Chavez style campaign blaming the US for all of the problems of the Philippines. Claims the US caused the drought by global warming.
4. After winning the election, he seizes control of the media and incites the Filipos against America. TV News of US Marines raping whole villages of women are aired but unconfirmed by western media.
5. He then nationalizes all American companies in the RP without compensation. Orders all US troops out of the Philippines.
6. Meanwhile newly elected US President Donald Rumsfeld, citing military intelligence, declares all OFW’s are secretly bringing weapons of mass destruction into America and orders them all deported, thus crippling the Philippine economy dependant on remittances. Also orders the Navy to set up a ” quarantine ” of the Philippine Islands.
7. RP then signs a mutual defence pact with China and leases the former Subic Bay naval base and Clark Air Field to China which promptly renames them Great Leap Forward Naval Base and Glorious Revolutionary Guard Air Field.
8. Reports of attacks on westerners in the Philippines becomes alarming. RP government orders all Americans to report to their local police station.
9. The world waits to see who will ” blink first “.
10. Meanwhile Dave Starr is already back in the states having left as soon as the RP vote was counted.
11. Mindanao Bob, still in the Philippines, is wondering if that souvenir Russian sailor uniform he borrowed from Paul Thompson (ret. USN) can be altered to fit him and wishes he had studied Russian instead of Cebuano.
Hi Randall – Most everything in your list is so wild, it can’t be anything but a good joke! 😉 President Rumsfeld? ha ha ha….
Gentlemen;
It has been a long time since I’ve had that good a laugh! Randall you are my new hero. Thank you so much!
Ha ha… Paul, Randall did have a good one there!
Hi Bob
I think you are wrong, internment or expulsion would definitely follow, so make sure you don`t do anything to cause a war between USA and RP..(:-))
All the best
Malcolm
It’s OK, Malcolm, because I also think you are wrong! Hopefully we will never find out who is right or wrong in reality.
In the unlikely event, don`t worry Bob, I will be in there to visit you! (:-))
It’s a nice question to put out but maybe you’re running out of topics to discuss? I’ve actually lived most of my life in Canada but it is only in the past 10 years that I’ve thought of actually living in the Philippines for self-serving or self indulgent reasons. Nothing sentimental or patriotic. The Philippines sinking into the Pacific due to climate change might come sooner than the question of loyalty will ever come up.
For the American expat retirees, I can understand if it is or can be an issue. In my view, the notion of “patriotism” in the US is monolithic compared to other nations except maybe China. The historical love/hate relationship between US and the Philippines may also be a contributing factor re this concern. But if one views the history of the islands (from pre-Hispanic, during Spanish era, US era, WW2, to the present), Filipinos have never been conquerors, empire builders, nor indulged in any of the sort of major conflicts used as examples. Maybe some head hunting, a massacres here and there.
If there are any conflicts, one can always move to another place or region. I saw Muslims in the Baguio market years ago or a Badjao village in Tagbilaran harbour. There will always be somewhere to park oneself. Batanes anyone?
Hi AlexB – Not sure why you would think I am running out of topics to discuss! I actually have a list that I keep of things I want to write about. Right now it has 187 different thing that I need to get to, and I usually add one or two things that I think of every day.
Hi Bob. Articles like this really strike me most.
First of all, I would like to give you a warm welcome from a Filipino who just happened to bump your article link from Pacland (www.mannyapacquiao.ph). If my mind could afford me, I have heard the same, if not, similar, question before but I cannot remember when and where is that. My best guest would probably be when I was in high school event.
Anyway, I would like to share a perspective of a real Filipino living in the Philippines when this hypothetical war will happen in I-hope-not-in-any-lifetime. That would also be a very painful experience from any Filipinos in the Philippines. You see, almost all, if not all, Filipinos (I am talking about people living in the Philippines all their lives) have very high regards to the United States of America. History has the proof.
If you have already been familiar with Philippine History, the USA is more or less responsible of freeing up the Philippines from Colonial Spain via Treaty of Paris. If I could understand history correctly (forgive me if I am really bad), this has started the birth of American influence. This western influence (I should call it a bond) is still very strong after more than a century. You could really see, especially now you are living in the Philippines, how the Filipinos adore American brands (and literally anything). Not to mention, how the US power have been very influential in extending Marco’s regime. Not to mention also, how the English language (American semantics) is a close second to the feeble “Filipino National Language” (actually, there is no Philippine national language, just a dominant native tongue, Tagalog. Although, the Visayan vernacular tongue is surprisingly spoken in two regions – Visayas and Mindanao).
So, to make my case (sorry I talk a lot), this war will destroy one of the most nurtured friendship in the world, the Filipino-American tie. Which could immortalize the familiar saying that “the best of friends are the worst of enemies”. Which is also kind of ironic because one strong Filipino trait is friendliness that they tend to get more compassionate and personal with you with the test of time.
In other words, I could readily say that, and as what you have already mentioned, this war is far from being a reality for like a millions of generations to come. Thank you for reading this lengthy opinion of mine. 😀
Hi Catch Weight – Hmm.. I have link from Pacland? Wow! I didn’t know!
Thankfully, Catch, I don’t think we need to worry about such a war happening.. it was just me thinking out loud.. “what if”. But, I don’t think it is a possibility anytime in our lifetimes.