Over the weekend, Feyma and I were invited to a party, which we attended. It was an 18th birthday party for a young lady who is the daughter of a very close friend. It was really a fun party, and we enjoyed seeing this young lady as she stepped out into society as a young adult. A few things happened at the party which were noteworthy, and in addition to this article, I will be writing a second article soon about another aspect of the happenings at the party.
This article is the sad article, about something that made me realize, while at the party, how conflicted I am. The next article is a happy thing that happened at the party. Both are important to me.
What is a Ninong?
A Ninong (that is the term for a male, if it is a female it is a Ninang). is sort of a “Godfather”. In the Philippines, you would have a Ninong (actually many Ninongs and Ninangs) for your baptism, as we do in the USA too, but also for your wedding. These Godparents are also known as “Sponsors”.
The role of a Ninong is to advise the couple. If there are marital problems (I am speaking of Ninong for a wedding now), then the Ninong would help the couple through the problems, offer advice, etc. This is firmly entrenched in Philippine culture. It is a relic of many years, many decades of Philippine culture.
However, I can see the tradition starting to fade in the Philippines. From the time when Feyma and I got married, when Ninongs and Ninangs were trusted advisers, until now when it seems more of an honorary title, and less of what it is supposed to be all about. I find this particularly true when a foreigner, like me, is chosen as one of the Ninongs. I think this is the case because in most cases, if a foreigner is selected for the role, he is generally not around, because he doesn’t live here. In my case, though, since I live here, I am still often chosen because people like to have a foreigner in the role, but even though I am here, I am not always taken in as the trusted advisor that a Ninong is supposed to be. That didn’t used to bother me, in fact, I didn’t care much one way or another.
I’ve changed.
But, I have changed a lot over the years that I have lived here. I am more Filipino now than I was 15 years ago. How could a person live in the Philippines and not take in at least some of the culture? Now, I feel that if I am asked to be a Ninong, I have a responsibility. If I am not really wanted for that responsibility, then I really don’t have any interest in being a Ninong.
So what happened?
So, I have kind of explained the role of a Ninong, and my feelings about the role that I wish to play. But, I have not tied it in with the party, though.
You see, there is a married couple that the husband is an American, like me, and the wife is a Filipina, from Davao. Feyma and I are Ninong and Ninang for this couple. Another Ninang is the mother of the birthday celebrant at the party. Also invited to the party over the weekend were the couple that I just mentioned. Unfortunately, this couple has been having marital problems for the past 6 months or so, and they are currently separated. As a Ninong, I feel a responsibility to help them, offer my advice, and generally see if I can help them work out the problem. I have talked to the husband some in the past months, but I am not certain how appreciated this has been. I think he is OK about it, but I also know that my advice has not had any effect or helped the situation at all.
At the party, the husband was a no-show, but the wife did attend. It was nice to see her, it had been a long time since I saw her. I do see the husband regularly, though. Anyway, the wife was very pleasant, and we talked quite a lot, and Feyma talked to her more in depth. I could tell that she was seeking my advice and counselling. Although it is a role that I accepted by becoming a Ninong, I felt a bit unsure of what to say.
Conflicted
Why was I conflicted? Why was I hesitant about what I should say? Simple. Because the husband is a friend, and he has told me things in confidence. I want to help the wife, but I also don’t want to betray my friend’s confidence. It made me feel uncomfortable, and very unsure about what I can say. I am very strongly of the belief that I don’t want to betray something that was told to me in convidence. On the other hand, how I can say anything productive to the wife without using the information that was told to me by the husband? I feel that I am stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Normally, I don’t get involved in this kind of thing at all, unless asked. I feel it is not my business. However, by them asking me to be the Ninong, I feel that they did ask me to become involved in helping them through the rough patches. That is what being a Ninong is all about. I can feel that the wife is giving me strong indication that she wants my advice and counsel, but the husband, I don’t think, wants me to step in. For the wife it is part of her culture. For the husband, I think having a Ninong was more of a ceremonial thing, nothing else.
The future for me
I talked to Feyma about this last night. I told her that in the future, I think I don’t want to be a Ninong any more. I could do it in special cases where there was somebody very close. And, my thinking is that I would do it for a couple that was very close, where both partners were Filipino. I say that because the Filipinos have more of an idea of what the role is of a Ninong. In a couple where one partner is a foreigner, I think they mostly think of the Ninong as just a ceremonial thing. I used to think that way too, but as I said earlier, I have changed.
I am still unsure what to do in this case. My strongest feeling is that I should just butt out and let them work on their own problem. But, I also have a strong tug at me that it is my job to try to offer assistance. Tough call for me. I guess that culturally, I am somewhere in the middle, and not sure which direction to head.
Hi Bob.
I also have been asked to be ninong for a female friend for her wedding, or as you said “Sponsor”. I respectfully declined for the same reason that you mentioned, I don’t live there!
I explained to her that I Know the role of a sponsor, but would be ineffective being this far away! also I don’t know her husband so the point would be moot. She understood my feelings and of course we still are friends.
Great article Bob, most foreigners there I’m sure don’t know the terms and cultural connotation.
Hello Heinz – Thanks for your comment, and I am glad that you liked the article. It is a real honor to be asked to be a Ninong, it shows a level of respect and acceptance from the person asking. I think you are wise to decline because of your absence. That also shows respect by saying that you cannot do it because you would not be around to fulfill the proper role and duties that are implied.
Bob – I see this pretty simply. When asked to be the Ninong, you take on the obligation to “be there” for them in whatever way they need you to be (because it’s about them, right?).
If you know something shared in confidence that might help your friend’s wife – who WAS seeking your counsel – you could try asking her questions designed to tease out the truth and then use that to bolster whatever you have to say to help THEM through your conversation with her. Even if she doesn’t answer or address the question (e.g. because it’s too hard to admit something), you’d be helping her consider the topic all the same.
Who knows, one of them might come back later to seek your advice at a later time. Like with many things, “you can lead a horse to water…” and that’s all you can do. Obligation fulfilled.
Hi John – I think that what you are saying is quite wise, and helpful. Leading a horse to water is often not an easy task! Even if the horse is thirsty!
Bob,
I see your conflict. I would also feel an obligation to the couple if I had been asked to be their Ninong. I think there is a path you can follow though.
The wife has confided in you. The husband has also confided in you. While the wife appears to desire a reconciliation, the husband appears to be less interested. A key point here is that both of them confided in you, but not in each other — which points to a root cause in many failed relationships: Lack of comunication. I believe that key point is where your role of Ninong can come into play without causing you to violate the husband’s confidence. Why not push them to sit down and communicate with each other? Once they regain each other’s trust, they can decide what topics need to be discussed. Admittedly, this may not be an easy task — especially in the case of the husband. However, if you can get them talking to each other once again, their chances for econciliation will be much better. If appropriate, and all parties agree, you may also volunteer to facilitate their initial conversations.
I hope it all works out Bob.
Best,
Jim
Hi Jim – Thanks for your suggestion. I think it is a good one. In fact, I think it is so good because I did that yesterday! I talked to the husband about the possibility of getting together with his wife to talk it over. I don’t want to reveal what he said, because I fear that by saying anything like that, it could cause people to know who I am talking about. But, suffice it to say that your advice is good. 🙂
Excellent article Bob. I would like to point out too that there are some younger single mothers that ask a foreigner to be godfather to a baby almost entirely for the monetary aspect. I have been asked twice – and then been almost badgered about sending gifts for birthdays, Christmas, christening, start of school year, etc. With those experiences, I no longer accept being godfather to a child of a friend.
I can understand your conflict. Over the past 30 years or so, I’ve been asked to be a Ninong and have accepted the honor numerous times. I have upon occasion been asked for my opinion and help. I may be not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I’ve never felt conflicted ether. I’ve learned that in most cases the party asking my opinion already has the answer, though they may not be aware of it at the moment. I can guide the conversation without having to divulge confidences. However, if I’ve been made aware that one of the parties has been unfaithful for instance, I feel it part of my duty as a Ninong to help the aggrieved member find their own solution. No two couples are alike and each seem to have their own problems. I still don’t hesitate when asked to become a Ninong.
The same is true when asked to be a godparent. I happily accept the honor. I’ve heard other expats complain that these duties require them to provide gifts. I can honestly say that it’s never been the case for me. I think that at least half of my community under 30 years old must also be my godchildren.
From what I’ve learned about you and your good works, I’m confident that you will find the right answer for yourself.
Thanks, Ronald, for your kind words and for sharing your thoughts. I do appreciate it greatly.
Yes, that is so true, Stephen M Gray. It is sad, but I have experienced that myself.
Hey Bob,
I’m a ninong to a lot of children but only one married couple. Fortunately, one of those of the married couple is already a sister-in-law. I agree with Stephen in that it’s almost always a money thing when it comes to being a ninong as a foreigner, but only for the children. I’m lucky I guess because my inaanaks never came calling at Christmas-time for any handouts.
Hi RT, I am also ninong to many children. I don’t recall it ever being about money or gifts, although I know others who have experienced that. I am lucky.
I am also ninong to children, when I living there in Cebu more. (close friends of my wife) Not as many as you have. but I also have never seen it be about a money thing. I have heard many say that they have been asked for money over and over, but just hasn’t been my experience.
Hi James – Yeah, the money thing is something that happens, but like you, it has not been a huge factor for me either.
I don’t want to give the wrong impression and I want to clarify my previous comment. I’m a ninong many times over and some of my inaanaks live in the United States. The oldest, I think, is 15 soon to be 16.
On Christmas morning, it’s a familiar sight where I live – parents sending their children out to collect from their ninongs and ninangs (and some of those ninongs and nanangs are foreigners). Perhaps it’s just the area I live in or perhaps it’s just because I notice it more than others.
My inananks, the ones that live near me, always get something from me for Christmas, but not as part of the crowd that goes out in the morning. Being part of that crowd seems so impersonal. I love these children, having known them since the day they were born.
Hi RT – I also have a lot of godchildren. Here we call them “kinugos” that is the Bisaya equivalent of “inaanak”. I have not seen or heard of this practice of the god children going out on Christmas to collect their gifts or money or whatever. In fact, the first I have ever heard of the practice is your comment here. I am not disagreeing with you, only saying that the practice is different in the region where I live. Regional differences are so common in the Philippines.
Bob,
I have not had the privilege of being a sponsor yet. So I don’t really know if I would accept the responibility if offered. Hopefully they talked things over and were able to solve there differences. Where is Paul at, its Monday?
Hi PapaDuck. It will happen for you very soon, I am certain.
I am a bit concerned about Paul. His articles are always ready on Saturday, he never misses a Saturday. This Saturday, though, I heard nothing from him. I emailed him and got no reply. I am hoping that it is just an internet problem on his end.
Bob:
I know that when Rebecca and I got married, a number of the nonongs and ninangs were her ninongs and ninangs from when she was born. That obligation as godparents carried through to her wedding… AND they took that obligation seriously. We can ask them for assistance or advice at any time. I’m not talking money. For instance, when we adopted Juanito, several called us offering advice.
You said something that I found interesting, John, although on an unrelated topic. You said that some of your Ninongs/Ninangs were Rebecca’s godparents from when she was born. It always amazes me about the cultural differences in different parts of the Philippines. Down here, in this area, somebody who was your Ninong from when you were born could not also be a Ninong for your wedding. I mean there is no law against it, but it is simply not culturally acceptable. They must be different people. I don’t doubt you, I see these differences in culture pop up on many issues on a regional basis.
Bob: I noticed the same thing… Here in Manila, we were ninong for a child, but for the next child from the couple, it was taboo.
Same thing here, you can only be ninong for one child of a couple.
Bob, when I first read your reply I thought that it couldn’t be true! I hadn’t thought about it, but in reflection over my experiences in all of these years, I’ve never been asked to be a godparent by a couple more than once, nor have I been asked to be a ninong for any of my godchildren. I had never given it a thought until now. Goes to show that we’re never too old to learn something new!
Hi Ronald – I was talking with my wife, Feyma, about this a while ago. She informed me that the “rules” have loosened up over the years, and are not as hard and fast as they used to be. More or less now, it is just up to the people (parents, bride, groom, etc) to decide who the sponsors will be. 🙂
Before moving to the Philippines practice using the word NO…….
Learning to say no is good advice wherever you happen to be!
No doubt on that.
In my wife’s place, it is customary for the godparents of the child to also be the god parent at their wedding. The whole lifetime commitment thing. I guess it is also bad luck to refuse to be a god parent according to my wife. It is supposedly bad luck for both the child and the one who refused.
Hi GaryM – In my talk with Feyma a while ago, she told me that I was wrong. In fact, she said that if you are the Ninong for the child’s baptism, you are “automatically” the Ninong for the wedding too! Fifteen years living here, and I am still learning! 🙂
Hi Bud – Although the discussion has turned a bit toward money, the situation in the article is not money related at all, rather a question of friendship, things told in confidence, and how to keep the confidence while still being able to advise. But, I agree that “NO” is an important word to learn before moving to the Philippines.
Bob I am married to A lady from Cebu and I also was married to a Lady from Davao the first time. Had/have so called Godparents etc from both. But they offerd no advice or help at all, just wish I had had/have advisors like yoyu and your wife that the ones I got as they just thought that I was available for financial assistances. It is a strange custom for us foriegners but as they same when in Rome. Never mind we all learn from things as we get older
Great article!
Thanks, Philip, I appreciate your kind words. It is not good that your sponsors wanted to make it a financial matter, but offered no help when it was needed.
Thanks you, Jeff Joy Depakakibo Bexson, glad you liked it.
Aftyer 30 odd years it is not important mate at all
I do not as a lot of foriegners hold that against the people, as if we were in their situations we would do all we could to help our families regardless of what it looked like to others . I never judge my other country by a few bad things just always love my experiences when I go to the Philippines and also when I meet great people like you and your wife and others too
Bob, what an honest assessment. It was an incredibly thoughtful piece. Salamat.
As in the end if anyone ask for money and you do not want to help them all you have to do is say NO
That is a good attitude, Philip John Lynch.
Thank you, Craig Himes, I appreciate that very much.
No is an important word to remember and use in the Philippines.
Saying no when someone is trying to take advantage of you is always good advice anywhere. Nobody can take advantage of you without your permission!
Hi Bob, Good article,
Also I was/am in same situation and was thinking it’s just traditional procedure. But now this people have really problems and I feel also resonsibilities and itks a pity that I can not help them because it’s a problem about believe. One of the family goes for other believe. (it was not in Philippines but in Uzbekistan). Your article is so good and I hope people realise before what they do in such situation, at last discusse this position before say yes I do. Best regards… Willem
Hi Willem. I am glad you liked the article, and I wish you the best in making a decision in the situation you mentioned.
Very true, Ron.
Thanks for another very informative article Bob. What does this have to do with a vacation in the Philippines ? Last year I was invited to attend a ” Mass Wedding ” ( multiple couples being married at the same time ) which prior to a couple of years ago is something I never heard of before. I think it was a couple of days before this was to take place I was asked if I would care to be one of the ” sponsors ” at this wedding. I had never heard of being a sponsor at a wedding so I thought they needed more money for refreshments or some other thing involved in this ceremony. After a few seconds of thought I replied ” How much (money) are you looking for ? The reply was that they were not looking for money and gave me an explanation that I can not remember and that I would get up and say something to the dozen or so couples getting married. The ceremony was being conducted by the city Mayor and it was to be held at a City facility, I was to be seated at the head table with the Mayor and other local and regional people who serve in one kind of official capacity or another. I found it difficult to refuse, out of respect for being invited. Thinking back on it now and after reading your informative article here, I think it was more of a novelty factor than anything else. With all due respect, there are many things that I experience on my visits are kind of a novelty to me, things I have never seen or experienced before. Maybe I am a bit of a novelty to many of the people I meet and interact with there.
At least now I will know for the future, being one of the ” sponsors ” for a wedding does not mean chipping in a few Peso to help cover the cost of the ceremony or the reception !
Hi Bob, yes, at least now you have a better understanding of what is involved. I suppose there is some novelty on both sides of the coin.
Ditto NYBobs take on an informative article as always. Jim had made an excellent suggestion regarding your dilemma. Personally, I felt I didn’t know you well enough (yet) to toss my thoughts in, as you stated about a rock and a hard place. It was excellent to see you had already taken a step in the direction Jim suggested. For 10 of 15 years in a previous congregation I served as an elder often having to counsel friends regarding marriage and more, while not exactly the same, I can empathize with you it is not a comfortable position. My best wishes regarding the outcome of that situation.
(Please edit as you deem fitting) Just a couple points while I’m writing you. In my initial introduction to you I stated My determination is to transplant to Gensan area, My sweetheart comes as a package deal, she has 3 children whom i adore a 9 year old boy and two girls now age 7 and 4. The 4 year old just spent three days in the hospital, Bobny;s article on his hospital really helped put that event into the proper perspective. As the family is not of many resources they were ecstatic when I covered the cost. They seem a very loving God fearing people very traditional. The children live on the mountain with the grandparents, while their mother stays in the city. The grandmother daily brings crops to market in the city and often one or more of the children spend the weekend. So we have some face time on Yahoo. Now this enlightened further understanding of the culture is music to my ears so to speak. Keep posting I’ll keep reading.
God bless you and yours. Thank you sincerely for what you do. Jeff
Hi Jeff – I have enjoyed knowing you and learning more about you on FB for the past short while, looking forward to growing our friendship more as time passes. I used to live in GenSan, so would be happy to help with any information you need.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this article.
Good article, and it clears up my clouded thoughts on being a Godparent of children here and also the role for a couple starting out. And I do understand your position. I hope it all works out for the couple.
Thank you Luke. I am glad you found the article useful.
I have around at last count 15 “Godchildren” etc., and it seems that all I as a foriegner am good for is to give them gifts. Okay that is fine as i do that with my Australian God kids. Just do not want others to stop helping because of some people thoughts on us foreigners. I was taught many years ago to treat people as you find them and I do do that. It depends on the situation and the need as to what I do. I really have a problem with stupid foreigners that just post stupid comments and insults towards the people in the Philippines. Just be respectful. Hey if you are not sure of how things go in the Philippines all you have to do is ask Bob and Feyma Martin for advice they will help as they can.
I have not yet been asked to be a Ninong for a wedding but I have been asked to be the Ninong for a child. I accepted the first one, which was my brother-in-laws child. The second was a cousin of my wife. Mind you, this was during my first trip here five years ago. I thought it a bit odd that I was being asked by someone that barely knew me and was not a close relative. So, I inquired more about the way the ninong is used. I found it odd that so many people were asked to be a ninong or ninang. I am talking 20-30 people. When I asked why so many, it was honestly revealed that they usually ask so many because of the gifts they would receive. I politely declined the role in all other requests. One was enough for me. I don’t know if I will ever accept again, but unless they take my position seriously, as I would, the answer would be a resounding NO.
Being a Ninong can be rewarding, but there are challenges too, as I demonstrated in this article. It is not always about gifts and money!
Why would any one that wants advice ask a sorry Bob, a Yank as we call him advice when he has been there done that and got the scars for his trouble. The small expense that he charges to cover his time is worth it in the long run he has been there done that so if you need help contact him
Hi Philip, you are correct, acting in some respectful way goes a long way in the Philippines.
Bob I have corresponded with you for sometime and asked you many questions which you have always answered honestly and never asked me for payment. If you want the best advice nothing better than to ask someone that has been there and done that . I am relocating very soon to Cebu and before I go I will get all your books and then also do th language courses, at the costs as per a sensible arrangement. When I get to the Philippines I would like to arrange a lunch to say thanbksd for your help which I can tell people has cost me NOTHING at all not everythiong costs Bobv will advise but in the end no body get nothing for nothing . but on the prices Bob charges it is agift for all those that need help So pay the money and use his advise or just do not conmplain
Thank you for your kindness and friendship, Philip John Lynch.
Bob that was a very nice article and I can see you are a man of great integrity. I married a girl from Mindinao island fifteen years ago. We had our official wedding in the USA, but went back there a short tile later for a second wedding for the benefit of her friends and family. I was told many of the people there sitting at the table for a free meal were my sponsors. I did not understand until reading this article what their purpose was supposed to be. Sponsors in USA are someone that pays for the expenses, so if they would have been called “elder advisers” instead I would have understood. This was the first time I understood the custom of sponsors. I still remember asking what did they pay for? I thought I was paying for everything, how do they dare claim to be my sponsors, when they paid for nothing, and I even paid for the food and drink they are enjoying.
Thank you much, Bruce, I appreciate what you said. Glad that the article gave you a better understanding if what the sponsor is all about.
I was asked to be a nanong (I didn’t know the terms – just Godfather) for my sister in law’s child. Of course I am no idiot and know that money or presents is a motivation. In the end I said yes and feel honored to do so. My wife made it clear that I am under no obligation. We did send a few little things for the baby with the latest balikbayan box, but we sent stuff for everyone. If it ever got out of hand I would of course have no problem saying no. But honestly I want to be part of the culture and part of the family. If my sister had a child, wouldn’t I send a give occasionally? So I am looking forward to seeing how this relationship progresses.
Hi Dave – Being asked to be a Ninong is an honor indeed. Sure, from time to time money can play into it, but it is still an honor as well. Congratulations on that!
What a great article Bob! Very well explain. Being asked to be a ninong is an honor. Speaking of a gift or they are asking money from you, this is truly depend on you and it is not a requirement. If you are a giver great and blessed your heart if you’re not then say NO. If my godchildren ask for help especially for emergency reason like they were hit by typhon and lost their homes, How could you not send them a little donation? My heart will torn apart if I cant send them even a very small amount. I would be willing to help what ever it takes than being selfish and greedy.
Thank you, Nilda, I’m glad that you liked the article.
Bob,
never been asked to be Ninong in weddings, but have accepted in two case the obligation of Ninong for children.
In fact in both cases I am what some have called the padrino (or shotcaller) when major issues pop up. In many cases however in the Philippines padrino is used in the political sense and is also called balimbing or Padrino system. In that usage it is a negative aspect of Philippine society and could fill volumes with examples.
I am not that kind of Padrino. My calling of sorts is based on the fact that where my family is from in Italy the #1 Godfather is called Padrino and having explained that to the parents of the children I am Ninong to they asked that I be the shotcaller for schooling and religious education decisions. I accept that.
Does it involve money? Only in small amounts at xmas and birthdays and never in large amounts. I have however committed to share paying of higher education expenses when they get older and can make decisions with us about what they want to do in life.
In the region where these folks live, at least in the towns I visit, most of us are called Compadre when addressing the other Ninongs…but the kids they all address me as Ninong. Only the parents refer to me as Padrino in deference to my Italian heritage and our agreement…and yes it has raised a few eyebrows when they call me that in public. LOL.
Havng read about the wedding end of this obligation, I would probably decline unless they agree up front to the traditional role and not just as “eye candy” at the ceremony etc.
good luck on your problema, I hope it works out for you and the others in the end.
Hi Joe – Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I did not know much about that Padrino system that you were talking about, so it was good to learn more.
Hi Bob – Good article and topic. I didn’t realize the that a ninong was meant to be a trusted advisor, I thought it was more a token position. The fun of cross cultural marriages!. Would it be less conflicting for you if the husband was Filipino?. As a foreigner being a ninong, would Filipinos want you to advise them?.
Thanks, Brenton, glad you liked the article, and learned something new. Yes, I believe that if the husband were Filipino it would be less of a conflict in my mind. The reason is because I don’t think that the husband, being American, really understands the role that the Ninong is supposed to play, and thus is less serious about it. Just my opinion, though.