As I mentioned in an article a few days ago, a large number of people who move here from Western Countries end up leaving within the first year. I would say it is more than half of the people return home, although I have not seen any real official figures on that. Some friends and I always joke with each other when we meet new foreigners here. After we have talked with them for a while or whatever, when they leave, we look at each other and one of us says “how long do you think he will last?” Ha ha…. Not trying to be mean, but the people leaving happens so much that we almost wager on it!
So, when I have mentioned this before, comments started coming up asking why they leave. Well, I can’t say for certain, because I am not one of them. But, I do have some ideas, based on my observation. Let’s look at what I see.
Firstly, the number one reason why people leave here is that making the adjustment to living here is very difficult. At first glance, it seems like the culture here is very similar to our culture in the States and in other first world countries. But, that is only on the surface. In actuality, people here are very different than we are, and their actions are sometimes 180 degrees out of phase with us. Things are done slowly here. If you go somewhere and order your dinner it might take an hour or more for the food to come. Adjusting to things like this is not easy. It seems small, but when all of these things are piled up on top of each other, it makes for a difficult adjustment. It took me several years to adjust. A lot of people give up before they complete the adjustment. And, honestly, there are a lot of things that I have just resigned myself to accept that I will never adjust to them, I can only decide to accept them and not worry.
For other people, maybe they have a falling out with the wife’s family, and rather than moving to another part of the Philippines, they just return home. One thing for sure, if you are living around the wife’s family, they will be asking for money. For a lot of foreigners and their spouses having constant requests (even demands) for money is uncomfortable, and they quickly tire of it.
Another common reason why people return home is because they simply run out of money! This is probably either the number one or number two reason for returning home. They come with a wad of money, expecting to use that in order to set up a business which will sustain them, but they are never able to make a go of it, and as their cash reserve dwindles down to nearly zero, they decide that they have no choice but to go back home where they know how to earn more money. I personally almost fell into this problem myself. After only two years here, I got to the point where I had virtually zero left, after coming here with a nice nest egg. I had to make a choice – go home, or figure out how to make money so that I could survive! Luckily, being in such a tough spot, I was able to hunker down and figure out how to earn a living. Now, I know how to make money here, and I don’t believe that I will ever be in that position again. It’s not a comfortable place to be. However, as uncomfortable as it is, it is a place where many ex-pats find themselves!
Other people decide that they don’t like the hot weather here, and want to get back to a cooler climate. Some don’t care for the food here after a while. There are a multitude of reasons why foreigners go back home, probably thousands of reasons. About the only way to really discover if this is the place for you is to come here and try it for a while. Since you are reading this, you have an advantage. Being the kind of person who researches sites like this and other such sites, you are doing your homework before moving, and being armed with information is the best way to keep from being another foreigner who moves back home!
Thanks very much for that Bob.
Seems to me that you have to carefully consider the following before moving for good.
1. Be _very_ very _realistic about money. Have revenue streams from outside the Philippines if at all possible.
2. Have a clearly defined strategy with the near and distant family before moving out for good. [ Not that this applies to us as Rhodora is an only child and her family are excellent people ]
3. Have a number of visits first to your chosen location and live on the ground as it were for a time first before you make up your mind. And research living in the Philippines as much as possible first through talking with people and through sites such as yours.
4. Do not burn your bridges by selling property back home so you can always cut and run. Best to wait a couple of years before cutting the final ties with Europe / America.
Regards,
Scott [ and Rhodora ]
From the people I have met while in the Philippines, too many (whatever "too many" means) move because they like the bar scene. It's one thing to enjoy the bars and the girls, and quite another to plan the absolute rest of your life around that environment.
Bob, thank you for that peice of journalistic excellence ! yes as Scott says, we have to be realistic about money, I agree with Scott about the outside revenue stream, please Bob if you have seen one that flows with money please let us know?
With regards to the wife's family "To be forewarned is to be armed, fortunately, my wife's family are very proud and self sufficient, I would also endorse Scotts observation of having multiple visits to live in your chosen location, and of course, not burning ones bridges.
My own idea was to consider part residency – travelling back between Philippines and UK, as I don't have a great pension, and my career is my income stream I would have to work out a way, that I can move between the 2 countries, I have a chat friend in Thailand who does exactly that, he comes to UK for 3 months a year, as you are allowed to come into UK for 90 days, and claim non residency, he is a consulting management accountant, he runs his business by e mail and internet from Thailand where his house is based, his income stream is made being in UK.
He says it works for him, and gives him sufficient income to last most of the year, without setting up local businesses, which devour is capital and leave him broke, not matter how many business ideas are put to him by local Thais, or friends of his wife, he manages to avoid them like the plague, of course in the Philippines as in Thailand, the only way to make a small fortune is to start with a large one.
It appears to me that its rather sad for so many foreigners who make it to the Philippines to live, only to find that in one year or less they are heading back to Farang land to start all over again, but having some form of security in your host country as Scott has said, must be reassuring if you had to do that, in my case I know I could slip back into several companies without too much of a problem, fortunately in my chosen profession, I know alot of people who can open doors for me relatively easy, but it may not be always that easy for others, its a big move and we all need to consider it carefully.
But I don't think standing outside Cafe Bob's selling mango's will be my forte in life.
By the way, one of the reasons why I read this blog is because you are honest about what you went through to become successful in the Philippines. You have been very up-front about almost running out of money and having to make other choices for employment.
I agree with what has been said, that is why I am going to live in manila for 6 months this coming September to see first and foremost what it is like to live there on a day to day basis.
No negative comments about choosing Manila please 😉 I don't have a filipina GF , I just want to experience the differance and if I like it then I will retire there… not necessary Manila.
Gerry
Scott – good advice!
Tom – I know a lot of expats that go and hang out at the girlie bars or at regular bars 365 days per year. That is not the life for me, and it sounds like it isn't calling you either!
Hi Peter – Indeed I do have some nice revenue streams from outside the Philippines. My e-commerce stores and also my blogs earn primarily from people outside the Philippines. You can do things like that too. On the e-commerce, I actually don't even accept orders from within the Philippines, as it would open me up to having my income taxed here.
Hi Tom – I do try to be straightforward. It helps others learn from the mistakes I made!
Hi Gerry – I am not going to make negative comments about living in Manila. I will only say that if you have a plan to retire outside Manila, then the experience of living in Manila will not be helpful in your quest. I have a saying for you that was told to me by a Filipino friend: "Manila is not the Philippines, and the Philippines is not Manila." If you think that over, you will open up a number of paths in your mind. Good luck!
Bob, how much money does one really need to retire in the pi. Is it one two or three thousand us a month? I dont have any children to take along and I will be 62 in six years or less. I dont want to work but I have offered to help out at the local school. They said they would be happy to have my help. My wife will be 46 and she needs somthing to pass time with any ideas on her part?
She was the one who wanted the jeepnys and also the store idea which you put the nix on she now is not the happy camper.
Hi Don – I would say that at this point in time, if you are coming here to live with just yourself and your wife, you can live a fairly comfortable life on $1,500 per month. This would be particularly true if you have a house already and are not paying rent out of that budget. I feel you can still make it even if rent must come from the $1,500, but to be safe you might budget $2,000 if rent is to be considered.
One thing to keep in mind – I know of some foreigners who were living here and did not have work permits. They did volunteer work at a school in the Visayas. They were deported for working without a permit. They said that it was only volunteering, but the Dept of Immigration told them that a Filipino could have been hired and received wages for the work that they were doing for free, so they were deported! Hard to believe, but true.
Well, as for your wife, without knowing the things she enjoys doing, it would be hard to make a suggestion on what she could do. Perhaps also volunteer work, maybe fitness, exercise, swimming, start a business. There are so many options!
A "falling out with the wife’s family", in my opinion is the critical challenge monetarily that non Filipino's face when marrying a Filipina. I see or read about a guy and his Filipina buying property near their relatives and in my opinion the chances are much greater that the relatives will be more of a negative rather than a positive influence. I learned this through experience. Although I hoped and planned for a positive outcome, I was not surprised that the relatives were a problem yet I felt we had to give it a chance, just to see if it would work out living near our relatives. I think if we moved to a different part of the PI without giving my wife's hometown a chance that my wife would have romanticized that living in her hometown would have been better than living away from our relatives. And I might have been resented by my wife along with our relatives. So to do the correct and best thing we had to do the wrong thing first.
Also, on the PI message boards there are a few loud spoken posters that say how wonderful their relatives are and newbies read this and think "hey maybe my relatives will be good too". But in most cases I think the relatives are the biggest problem. So why are relatives a problem? In short, I think a lot of the problems with Filipino relatives and a non Filipino husband are cultural and conceptual but I don't have the time or desire to get into that right now.
Well said, James. My observation and experience mirrors yours. I am interested to hear more about how things worked out for you!
Hello James, I know you said you have not the time or desire to tell us more about your experiences with your relatives. Please reconsider, please tell us more about what happened. I am sure it would be a very valuable lesson to those of us contemplating moving to Mindanao with their Filipino wives.
Regards,
Scott
Why are the relatives a problem? From what I have seen in the Philippines is that concept of sharing is much different than in the USA. For my relatives in the Philippines, sharing is kind of like perverted mixture of greed, respect and rank. When a foreigner is added to the equation it became sharing on steroids. For example, we paid for my young sister in-law to go to school and my brother in-laws expected their share and they were insulted when they did not get the same amount (especially because they thought they should get more money since they were older) of support as their younger sister. Anyway, our relatives would keep track of how much we owed them. My wife protected me from knowing this information for a couple of years. After enough threats and nagging requests/demands for money my wife decided that we should sell the house and move away from our relatives. So luckily she found a buyer and we sold the house and now we have a hectare and a half or so of land on another island. About six months after we left my mother in-law and younger sister in-law and brother in-law came to live with us so the brother and sister could continue to finish their school because in their hometown they had the money we sent stolen, my sister in-law was beaten by her brother and my mother in-law was diagnosed with an ulcer due to the terror inflicted on her. It was just a mess and it was all my fault according to my relatives.
Hi James – thanks for sharing that additional information. I have seen situations like you describe too many times. When you mention that if you help one person in the family, the others feel it is owed to them too, I know that feeling, and have seen it in my own in-laws many times. I have overcome that, though, by simply not caring what they think. If they think I owe them, then that is what they think, but that is not what I think, and I won't let it bother me. I have had that attitude long enough that they kind of understand it now. I don't get mad, I just don't care.
I help those that I want and desire to help. Those who I think don't deserve my help don't get it. Period!
Good luck to you, James!
James I am speechless ?? for the first time, what a society, damned if you do, damned if you don't..geeeeeze, Bob, what an upside down world these people live in, if you want to help a younger female sibling you think you are doing the right thing, the foreigner has the best of intentions, he thinks he has done a good act of kindness, then he finds that his act of benevolence has caused a family fude, because "HE" GOT IT WRONG"
And then he finds himself "OWING" other lazy ass good for nothing brothers, well..that had better not happen to me, because I will see Red if it does…thanks for sharing James.
Hi Peter – James is spot on. I have seen it over and over. I've seen it happen other expats and I have seen it happen in my own Filipino family. You help one, and others then think that they deserve the same. If you don't give it to them, then you are an ass. This is why I keep emphasizing to not live near to family.
I think one of the primary reason people go back, besides financial, is they have certain expectation about the life here. When those expectations are not met, they become jaded, especially when it comes to changing the way the people here think and live. I fall in that trap every now and then–in trying to correct things based on the way things are done in the states–and my wife has to figuratively slap me on the head to remind me where I am. Folks, this is not the United States. Yes, the Philippines still look up to America and most things she stands for but, if the person here is going to be put in a disadvantage, he or she will readily revert back to his or her Filipino mentality. And that mentality is, "to hear no evil; see no evil", in order to absolve themselves from what's in our eyes–or anyone else's eyes– are wrong.
Let's face it, it's human nature not to incriminate oneself, to be seen as fair and non-prejudice in people's eyes. It's primal survival instinct to protect one's hide, whether here in the Philippines or anywhere else in the world. Eveyone has skeleton(s) in the closet. We do certain things that are right in our eyes and those who share our views. But are those principles and deeds argreeable to everyone? Unlikely.
I believe the key ingredient to making it here in the Philippines is to change one's attitude. No matter where one's from and how one's is raised, everyone should have open eyes and mind about the life here. In other words, leave all of your preconceived notions and prejudices behind until you understand why things are what they are and cease trying to change them. Till next time….
Hi Julius – you make some really excellent points in your comment, and they tie in with the latest post that I just uploaded a few minutes ago. I guess that great minds think alike! It is so easy to fall into the trap where we complain or criticize others because they way they do something is different from the way that we do it.
Wow…
Since we've been living in the states, we have only been asked for money three times. My wife's cousin and husband were moving to the states and they had some moving costs. They paid us back immediately-She's a nurse under an awesome contract and her husband went from Pfizer-Philippines to an office here-They make a pretty penny now that they're here. My wife's nephew wrote an email, asking money for a bike he wanted. I, being the sucker that I am, emailed back right away that I was happy to send the money. My wife chewed me out for that. She didn't want to set a precedent for behavior like that. Since I already said yes, we sent money for the bike. Finally, my mother-in-law's pension was screwed up for a little bit, and she asked us to help her. I was so happy to help her that it was no inconvenience. She is a wonderful woman that is forever giving us financial advice. As a single mom, she put both my wife and her brother through Ateneo de Davao. She did this on an elementary school teacher's salary. She is holy as far as I am concerned, so I will help her at the drop of a hat.
I'm still concerned that things could change if we moved to Davao. My family has been great, but on our vacation last month we were were told that everyone was meeting at Miggy's grill at Times Beach. We showed up and it was a grand meal, but somehow we ended up footing the bill for the feast. My wife and mother-in-law were really angry about this and discussing it in Bisaya. I was oblivious to the whole situation. My wife had the visa card and took care of it. It was only about $50, so it wasn't that big of a deal. I know my mother-in-law constantly looks out for us…she's a mama lion when she thinks we are being taken advantage of, but it still seems like we would be the couple with the white guy from the states in the family…So, I'm always going to have to be guarded in my dealings with them.
Hi stebujiji – It's great that things have worked out well for you! I am happy for you on that. Of course, when you have family members working for people like Pfizer and such, those are not the people who would usually have a hand out since they have a good job.
Good luck to you!
Julius, said that “is they have certain expectation about the life here”. From what he wrote he was talking about the foreigner’s expectation. There is the possibility that you can control your expectations and Julius give some excellent advice, “leave all of your preconceived notions and prejudices behind until you understand why things are what they are and cease trying to change them”. That kinda reminds me of the serenity prayer “to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference”. Anyway, the part of the expectations, that you/us as a foreigner, cannot control are the expectations of your Filipino relatives. Yes, you can influence the relative’s expectations and through consistency you can hopefully communicate your version of reality. The problem is this can be a painful process, which in our case was neither worthy of the effort nor possible in the view of my wife.
Also, in my situation, my relatives’ expectations were ballooned beyond any scope of our reality by neighbors and friends expectations of our “sharing”. To add a bit of information, we did share with our relatives substantially by putting down payments on two motorcycles, which were repossessed when the brothers failed to make any payments or take care of the motorcycles. And we paid off half the cost of another brother’s Jeepney. And we gave our father in-law monthly support so he did not have to work. Along with many thousands of dollars in hospital bills and many other smaller requests for money. But in the end, our relatives had the demeanor of a waiter or waitress that just got stiffed on a tip.
This is not meant as an excuse but as an explanation . . . In the case of my father-inlaw, I think his friends and the other relatives that we were not giving monthly support to, would tell him how cheap we were and how we should be giving more money. He than began to believe it himself. His final demands included doubling his monthly support money, a bus, and a pig farm. The people that were advising him had nothing to loose because they were not getting any money anyway, but if my father in-law got more money from us because they told him he deserved more money than they would deserve a share. Now my father in-law gets no support money from us and his future is of no concern to us.
A final point, my wife initiated our moving away from her hometown. Our mother in-law decided to leave her husband for the good of herself and her younger school-aged kids. I know and understand that while passing the tupa around my father in-law and brother in-laws blame me, but that is because of their expectations. I also know that the threats of harm to wife, my kids and me that were pale threats in the past to scare my wife and extract money are now real options to my disenfranchised relatives. But now our expectations are being met, as are our mother in-law and her two younger kids expectations.
If some of this does not make sense please read my previous posts above to get some history.
Hi James – Wow, those were some powerful lessons all around. You, your wife, your father in law, everybody learned lessons (or should have – I am not sure the father in law ever really learned). I hope that your situation today is better for you and your wife, and that others in the family at least have some understanding of what happened and why.
Thanks James, I hope things work out for you.
Scott
Lots of good thoughts in this blog. My plans are to move over there in August and stay two months, come back to the States for two months, back there, etc. etc. etc. I am not too worried about living there but I am not burning any bridges either. I will take my laptop and work from my apartment. Bill Gates recently said that the old adage of "location, location, location" is no longer applicable in today's world and I would agree with that wholeheartedly.
So far, my fiancee's family has been good. I have been sending them $300 per month for the past two years and they have NEVER asked for another red centavo. Of course, I am wary that if I live too close, that may change. They live in Samar and my apartment will be in Pampanga so I don't see any problems in the short-term. My fiancee has told me that it is not uncommon for relatives to come knock on her family's door looking for money because, "she has a rich american boyfriend" but so far, the family has not given in. Since they have never asked me for any additional money, I believe that is the case.
Like stebujiji, I do worry that things will change if I move too close. The family has been great and they treat me well. However, during my last trip to visit them in Samar, my gal and I attended her cousin's college graduation. In honor of her accomplishment, I suggested we have a party the next day at the resort that we were staying at. All I wanted was to have the two families there and it would be a nice get-together. Yeah, right. Next thing I know, relatives are coming out of the woodwork. The bamboo grapevine was working overtime. I knew things were getting out of hand when I saw one person hauling a load of Red Horse and a bag of food down the beach to his home. At that point, I asked to see all the charges on my bill. Wow!! It was four pages long and when I ran across packs of cigarettes, I told the owners that the tab was now closed. Cigarettes killed both my parents prematurely so I am not a big fan. Once everybody discovered that the tab was closed, the party quickly dissipated. All told, the bill ran 11,000 pesos. That is not a lot of money to me but it was the feeling of being taken advantage of that bothered me the most. I am a generous person but I will not accept being taken advantage of. After the party was over and my gal and I were back in our room, we had a nice talk about the events of the day. She was even madder than me and she told her parents that we would never have a party again. Of course, that is not true but the next party will be her family only and a few select friends.
I do find it difficult at times to bite my tongue when things don't work the way I think they should or the way we do it back in the States. My favorite line is "Only in the Philippines" and my gal just laughs. Each trip that I make over there, I get a little better in accepting that this is they way things are done in the Philippines. I hope that my experiment of living there will work and I don't become one of the many who gave up and went back home.
I hope I have not rambled on too much here.
Hi Gary – Welcome to the site! I'm glad that you stopped by an left your comment. It was an interesting read. Especially the part about the party that you threw for P11,000! Wow, I wonder what the tab would have been if you had not prematurely closed the tab. My goodness… for that price (which is very expensive for here) a lot of people could have had a great time!
I have three sayings similar to your favorite. One is the same as yours "only in the Philippines!" Another, after somebody says something that shocks them, but doesn't surprise me is "Welcome to the Philippines." Finally, when something happens that is very different than you would expect in the States is to say "Walang ganyan sa States." That means "it's not like that in the States."
Bob
Thank you for the info. It is interesting. We are planning on retiring to PI within a couple of years. My wife was born and raised in the Philippines. From the reasons given for returning home, we will not fall in any of them. The PI family is well off financially, after living in Guam for several years, we are use to "Everything get done eventually" mindset, we have a steady income from outside the Philippines, and the Pi family are great people.
My only concern is the amount of money, (USD$1,500 per month) you stated as necessary to live. We plan on building our home and will not have a mortgage. I have read and have been told a couple could live very comfortable on USD$800 a month. Is it just the lifestyle one chooses? We have run the numbers, as we have seen them, and it seems the USD$800 per month will be more than sufficient to live. Are we missing something?
Thanks again for the info.
Hi Lonnie – You can probably make it on $800 per month. But, for me, I don't care to "make it", I want to have a nicer lifestyle. Keep in mind that in the last 18 months or so, the US Dollar has fallen like a rock – it's lost 20% of it's value against the Peso. It used to be around 56 Pesos to a dollar, and it is around 45 today. Who knows where it will be in 6 months.
Hi Lonnie—Good to hear that someone is from Guam. I thought about moving there many times while I was teaching on the mainland. Been there a couple of times in the 90's. What's it like there now? Personally, if I had a pension of 800 dollars a month, I wouldn't be in bad shape in the Philipppines. I have 5 members in my family and we're getting by with a budget of about 1,000 dollars a month. If it's just you and your wife, you're in good shape. Till next time….
Thank you for your comment, Julius. We lived in Guam in 1996-1997 and then 1999-2000. I enjoyed the scuba-diving and the outrigger canoe races that I participated in over there. Teachers like me who went there to teach enjoyed their "teacher schedules", doing some travels in SE Asia and just soaking in the island lifestyle. We decided to go back to the mainland when the economy there went south (right after 9/11). As for your comment on cost-of-living there in the Philippines, we're pretty much on the same page. My in-laws do tell us that we could live good on $800 (my brother-in-law sent us a detailed breakdown of this – he is based in Bicol). We found some cost-of-living worksheets contributed by some retirees in the "Living in the Philippines" website as well and looked at these. Sounds good. The $1000 a month for a family sounds reasonable from that perspective.
I have been in a long distance relationship for two years with my Filipina g/f, from Cebu. We met while she was on vacation here in CA and she’s been flying back and forth to make it work. Finally I made the decision to make my home there so we can see each other and have a more normal relationship.
But my actual comments are on the whole ‘sharing’ twist there in PI. I was AMAZED at how much money my g/f was sending out the door to so many people. And for the weirdest reasons. She is very well off, owns three homes and a few investment properties but is a very modest, humble person. I had to step in and give her the ‘backbone’ so to speak to start telling these people ‘No.’
A few quick examples;
She gave one sister enough money to buy two taxis and start a business. Thousands of US dollars. The sister ‘swore’ she’d pay it back once business was profitable. That was 8 years ago, the sister has grown the business with more taxis and instead still asks for more money, hasn’t repaid a dime.
Another brother.. she gave him enough money to have an upholstery store, even purchased all the required high-end stitching machines and textile to get him started. He got lazy, sold the equipment little by little until nothing was left.
Another brother, got married and left his wife and two children at her house.. for four years while he worked in Dubai. The sis-in-law works part-time locally while my g/f watched the kids. In all these years, not a dime sent from the brother to support his wife or kids. I finally convinced her to get the sis-in-law to move with the uncle if the brother refused to pay some kind of rent. He never paid, so she got her to move out.
But the most outlandish time was when a woman she’d never met or heard of called to say that she was getting married and wanted to invite my g/f to the wedding. To discuss the joyful event she invited herself to my g/f’s home and expected a full lechon (roasted pig) there when she arrived. My g/f gets the lechon and only this woman and her fiance show up. That’s one expensive meal. But they were there to say my g/f had the ‘honor’ of paying for the limo, cake and decorations so.. they’d like a check for $2,000 (US). All this happened before I’d met her so, she gave it to them, along with another $500 at the wedding because they announced she was the honored guest and would set the bar of gifting at the ‘first dance’. Basically putting her on the spot. And to top all this off.. my g/f still isn’t even sure she’s related to this person! Needless to say, I’ve brought her up to speed on saying, ‘No.’. But the culture is so strong in this area of ‘owing’ when you have plenty that she would put extra money into buying gold just so she could honestly say she had little money in the bank.
The best advice I’ve seen on one of the many sites I’ve been reading regarding marrying a Filipina is; “Live at least two islands or 6 hours away from her family.” She goes thru the same with her Mother, Uncle, even the servants will come back from their day off with three teenage kids in tow who end up staying for two weeks, just lounging around the house playing X-box.
Fortunately she is now moving so as to reduce the number of people living with her and we have agreed to eventually move away from all family, out to Bohol and live out there in a home too small for family to stay over.. but big enough for the two of us to live in peace.
Hi Henry – This is part of the Philippine Culture. This whole system of Culture is called “SIR” or “Smooth Interpersonal Relationships.” I recommend that you read the articles you find here to learn more about SIR and how it all works, because if you live here, this will be common, even if you live far from the family.
Good luck, Henry!