Yes, you read the title correctly…
Do you hate Filipinos?
What do you mean, Bob, of course I don’t hate Filipinos! If I hated Filipinos, I probably would never visit this site!
Unemployment is high in the USA, and in other Western Countries. In the USA, the official unemployment rate is hovering somewhere around 9.5 or 9.6%. The true unemployment rate is probably quite a bit higher, I have seen some economists estimate it near 20%. Those who have given up looking for a job do not count in the unemployment figures, and thus, the real number of people who are unemployed is always higher than the official unemployment rate. There are also a lot of people who are “underemployed”. In other words, people who have taken part time work, or who have taken jobs well below what they could do. For example, a guy who is a highly educated engineer who is working at McDonald’s. That fellow would certainly be underemployed, but when it comes to the unemployment figures, that engineer working at McDonald’s is not counted at all, because he has a job, even if it means that he is flipping burgers for a “living”.
Yes, Bob, we all know that a lot of people are suffering and have no jobs, what does this have to do with hating Filipinos?
Well, the fact is, a lot of those American jobs (and other countries) are now being done by Filipinos. I’m talking about outsourcing. I’m talking about call centers. I’m talking about business process outsourcing (BPO).
When I first moved to the Philippines more than 10 years ago, as far as I am aware there was no outsourcing to the Philippines. Outsourcing at that time was just catching on, and India was the country where a lot of that outsourced work ended up. The big place in India that was getting those outsourced jobs was Bangalore. There may have been a few jobs being done in the Philippines, but it certainly was not a major industry, and the Philippines was not a major player in the outsourcing industry. Things have changed a lot, though.
Today, every large city in the Philippines has Call Centers and other types of outsourced jobs coming from the USA, Canada, the UK, and elsewhere. In the past few days, I have talked to a few people who are active in IT circles in Davao City to see if anybody knew exactly how many outsourced jobs were being done in Davao. Everybody told me the same thing – they don’t know the answer, because the companies doing such work keep the information as a tightly held secret.
Suffice it to say, though, that there are a LOT of people employed in Davao City alone in these types of operations. I know of one company here in Davao that had 4,000 employees doing call center work about 5 years ago. Since that time the company has moved to a much larger location, so I can only assume that they have more than 4,000 employees now. Also, there are a lot more companies doing call center work in Davao, not just this one. While I don’t know a number, I would guess that the number of people with call center and other outsourced type jobs in Davao City would number in the tens of thousands. And, Davao is not the biggest city when it comes to Call Center type activities. Manila (and it’s suburbs), Cebu, Cagayan de Oro and lots of other places have call centers now. Even smaller cities like General Santos and Iligan have call centers. I recently read an article about a very small town in the Philippines that already has several call centers in operation. The number of people working in the call center industry in the entire country must number at least in the hundreds of thousands. It would not surprise me if it were over 1 million employees nationwide.
So, in my conversations with Americans over the years, I have gotten some real negative feedback about jobs being outsourced to other countries. Of course that would be the case, because if you have no job, or if you are an engineer who is flipping burgers, you would rightly feel put out by people in the India or the Philippines who have taken over millions of US jobs. So, that is why I ask, do you hate Filipinos? Do you hate them for taking your job away?
One thing I often hear from Americans whom I have an opportunity to visit with over the years is that they hate it when they call a support center and they can tell that an Indian has answered the phone. They feel like a person from India cannot understand the issues that they are calling about, or is unable to help them fix the problem. Oddly, the people I have talked to are often very happy when they get a Filipino on the phone, though, at a call center! Actually, this does not surprise me, though, because the people I am talking to are usually here visiting the Philippines and have taken the time to get together with me during their visit. So, these people have some ties to the Philippines. Maybe their wife is Filipino, or maybe they worked here in the Peace Corp or something, and thus formed a bond with Filipinos, and are regular visitors to the country. So, these people are happy to see some extra employment in the Philippines, helping the Filipino people succeed in life. They sure hate it when somebody in Bangalore answers that phone call, but they are very happy with it is answered by somebody in the Philippines!
The average American, though, I believe, probably could care less if it is an Indian or a Filipino on the other end of the phone, they only know that it is one less person in the USA who is gainfully employed, and they resent that. So, I do believe that a lot of average Americans do have resentment or even hate toward Filipinos who are taking jobs away from the USA. Those of us who have some family ties in the Philippines, or good friends in the Philippines are a lot less likely to feel that way, though.
One thing to keep in mind, though. In reality, it is not the fault of the Filipino worker that he is now doing a job that used to be done by an American. I mean, he has a job, and he is happy about that. But, it is the American company who fired his US staff and moved the jobs to the Philippines, so if there is anybody that the average American should be upset with it is the US company who is outsourcing work. And, yes, I do understand that most, or at least many Americans are very upset with US companies who are doing this.
Speaking of outsourcing work to India, or the Philippines, have you seen the new US TV comedy called “Outsourced?” I have seen it, and I kind of enjoyed it when I saw it. It certainly takes some cultural misunderstandings and makes some rather funny situations out of them. Did you know that the concept was originally a movie, also called “Outsourced?” Indeed, I saw the movie last year, and it was pretty enjoyable. If you have a chance to see the movie I recommend it.
So, what do you think about Filipinos taking a lot of US jobs? Does it anger you, or are you happy to see some good jobs start coming to the Philippines? Tell me what you think, and let’s talk about it.
Bob;
I have never met a person in the U.S. who has ever worked at a call center. I wonder what the pay in the US would be for that type of work, and would an American do it? But then if you can get a person to sit in a toll booth for eight hours I guest you can find someone to do anything.
My anger goes to big corporations who manufacture out side of their country, then return the product and sell it at a price, like it was made there. The fools who buy that product are the ones causing their own job loss. Somewhat like the Ford employees parking lot, filled with imported cars.
But do I hate the person outside the US who now has that former job, the answer is no, and why would I? He didn’t come to my country and take the job, it was given to him by my country. Bless the Global Economy!
Paul,
Well said and i tend to agree.
regards Chas.
Hi Paul – Over the past 5 years or so, there have been a lot of “call center” type positions opening up in the USA. One thing that is different is a lot of those positions are not really in call centers, but the employee works from home, over the Internet!
Hey Paul
I totally agree with you. Its not there fault. They just want to work and jobs are hard to come by in the philippines. The fact is filipinos are for the most part better workers than a lot of americans and i think more appreciative of there job.
Hi Randy – I have to say.. I disagree that Filipinos are better workers than Americans, or that they appreciate their jobs more. I have employed people on both sides of the ocean, and I feel that Americans are much more dedicated workers than Filipinos are. Americans are not constantly asking for extra days off, leaves and such. They don’t ask for loans against future pay. These are all common with workers here. Yes, I have had very dedicated Filipino employees too, but overall, I find American workers to be much more dedicated in general.
Yes there are call center type of job sin USA my friend in Nebraska (yes, she’s white and USA born, lol) has an outgoing call type of job like some call centers here.
But she says she makes more money grooming dogs.
Hi Cheryll Ann – Doesn’t surprise me… Americans spend a lot of money on their dogs!
Bob
Thanks so much for correcting me since you have more experience working with filipinos as an employer. But i will say my g/f does not belong in that category, she is a very hard worker and very dedicated to her clients. She owns a internet cafe and its her livelihood. So she has a vested interest. She is 24 years old, started the cafe at 22 years of age and the cafe has been successful. Take Care Bob
Hi Randy – Oh, don’t take me wrong, in individual cases things vary. I am not saying all Filipinos are bad employees, or all Americans are great employees. Just in general is what I mean.
call center’s are offten called help desk’s and myself and my friend worked at one for general mills, starting pay was 22 dollars an hour. to answer questions about that 🙂
and 2 years ago they out sourced all our job’s to the philippines 😛
but i am not mad at all at the filipino’s about it…. a little mad at the company oo hehe.
Yes that is true, Americans are more into career than family. So hiring the career minded ones is better the only problem is they cost a lot of money since they are more professionals. Unlike Filipinos, they are more family oriented and domesticated so they usually expect so much day offs and so much holidays and so much extra pay, and they always ask for cash advance, and they are not career minded,the only reason hiring them is the cheap wage and cheap production cost.
Philippines salary in call centers are not per hour it’s just
$260-543 monthly, and it has a qouta that is why they moved it in Philippines. Cheap wage and there is not much employee rights so you can decide to kick them out if you want without getting so much trouble. The wage is cheap the cost of company is cheap. They are not allowed to reveal they are from Philippines so even if it’s Filipino in USA they are talking too, they are not allowed to speak tagalog or to reveal they are in Philippines. They do speak like americans it’s hard to notice.
But still they invited the company in their country. Did you watch how they do manage to invite foreign investors in? And how about Walmart they are also getting clothes in Phil, the logos are sent here in Philippines. They just need to copy the designs and then use the logos. It’s cheap labor and they did bid for the lowest price. The companies will not actually recruit them or take them inside US, it’s cheaper to just send the jobs in Philippines.
sa way dapigdapig bob, mas maayo jud ang diction ug voice quality sa mga Filipino Call Center agents hehehehe
Well Bob let me start out by saying I don’t hate Filipinos because many people in my family are Filipinos. Secondly, most of the call center jobs prior to the high unemployment years were not even being filled. Now that there is high unemployment in the U.S. these hateful people want the companies to move the jobs back ? You can’t have it both ways. I can also tell you that there are still plenty of call center jobs in my hometown in the United States that are not being filled. The companies are actively recruiting workers on TV and newspapers and still having problems getting employees.
If you don’t mind, Dan, I am curious.. what part of the US are you from? If I remember correctly, you were somewhere in the Virginias, but I could be wrong. Interesting that jobs are going unfilled there, given that the US unemployment rate is so high.
Yes Bob I am in the Virginias and there are plenty of call center jobs at three companies or four companies within 15 miles. They are even offering bonuses to get workers. These type of companies are a starting point for newly graduating students and people needing extra money. The hours are long by U.S. standards, 6 days a week and 40-50 hours a week.
Hi Dan – Why do you think the jobs are still going unfilled? Does it just come down that Americans don’t want the work? I see people on TV desperate for jobs, and yet, these jobs cannot be filled?
Bob call centre work requires a certain kind of person – they are not for everybody. If the companies concerned have developed sophisticated recruitment and selection practices, which they probably have, they may well reject many job applicants as unsuitable. Even if a company has a shortage of labour it will often be more sensible to leave positions unfilled than to employ people who will require a lot of training, not be temperamentally suited to the job, cause a lot of problems for their supervisors (and maybe clients) and probably end up leaving after a few months anyway.
It’s tempting sometimes to believe that just because a company is recruiting very actively, it will take just about anyone. However that’s often not the case; sometimes it might have a very extensive recruitment campaign because it knows most of the likely applicants won’t be suitable.
Hi Ken – Yeah, I understand that there is a selection process, and there is a criteria for who meets the standards…. but with so many Americans out of work, there must be enough qualified people!
Bob:
So I have been told by some HR folks, the bar gets set unbelievably high for many positions so as to disqualify local candidates as justification for outsourcing or H-1 Visas or both. Both scenarios equal lower starting pay, and lower average pay over the lifespan of the position.
Cruising some of the job sites tend to confirm this – write a job description/requirement that near next to no one could meet – while not really needing all of these requirements to do the job.
While I cannot confirm what I’ve been told for certain, this idea does sound plausible based on casual looking and visible trends over the last ten years.
Hi Bill – I thought that the H1 visas had been severely clamped down on by Congress? But, I am sure there are still some playing the system.
Bob:
For the most part I think they have pulled back on H1’s only because of public outrage. They are using the present situation of positions they can’t fill as justification to try to jump start the process again.
40-50hours is not long, Philippines work 12-16hours a day, 6-7days a week. with just small wage like $10 or less daily. So you can get cheap labor in Philippines.
I feel the same way as Paul said it. It is the companies that outsource the jobs. I do hate getting help support from the people in India and some of the other countries because I can’t understand what they are saying most of the time. When I get help from the Philippines, most of the time I can understand what they are saying. Also, they have a nice pleasant voice. I can also understand why the companies outsource the jobs. They need to cut their cost down. Paul was wondering what they make here in the call centers. Well, it is at least the minimum wage of $7.25 an hour. I know they are getting the outsourcing done for a lot cheaper then that. You have to remember the people in the United States pay less for items here then anywhere else in the world. I have traveled to a lot of countries and every item I have looked at cost much more there then here in the Untied States, even though those countries pay their help much less then in the United States. So, I can understand why the companies here outsource as much as possible. So see, there is 2 sides to every story. Just my personal opinion.
Art
Hi Art,
You raise some good points.
Take the UK for example,cost of living is much higher than the US,yet our wages are lower.
regards,Chas.
Hi Art – One problem is that there are probably some Americans who love it when the phone is answered by somebody in India, because like we have an affection toward the Philippines, some Americans would have such an affinity for India. So, it varies by the person.
I agree with you too, that American consumers pay the lowest prices in the world for most consumer goods. So, American companies have to get it cheap, or it won’t be bought, and that means it’s hard to pay US labor prices. It’s a catch 22.
Perhaps consumer goods are cheaper in the US because the VAT is lower than in the EU.
Also many foreign companies use an exchange rate of 1$=1€. This makes products from Japan a lot more expensive in Europe.
Hi Luc – Not sure I understand.. there is NO VAT in the USA, so the VAT there is Zero!
VAT = Sales Tax and yes Bob many parts of the USA do have it. The percentage varies by state and locality as there is State Sales Tax, County Sales tax and in some areas individual City sales Tax. Where I live the total Sales Tax is 8.5% while just over the border line into Connecticut, a few minutes drive from my house, the total sales tax is 6.25% so obviously I do a lot of my shopping there.
Concerning Mail Order and Online Buying, some states have reciprocal sales tax with each other, some don’t.
Value Added Tax, to me equals the same thing as Sales Tax. The UK is now talking about going from 17.5% to a whopping 20% VAT !
In the UK and I believe also there in Philippines the VAT is included in the price of the item. Here it is added on when you pay.
Hi Bob – I am sorry, my friend, but in my opinion you are way off base on VAT = Sales Tax. They are nothing alike! With sales tax, when the item is sold to the consumer, tax is added at the register and the consumer pays it. With VAT, tax is added at every point where value is added to the product. So, for example, if you were going to make a hamburger… tax would be added by the vet who helps birth the cow, then by the feed producer who makes the cow feed, by the butcher, by the processor who handles the beef, etc. etc. Maybe hundreds of people along the line would add tax, based on the value that they add to the product. The sales tax is nothing like that. Sorry, but I strongly disagree with you on this.
I was looking at it from a consumer point of view Bob, standing at the cash register and paying a tax on items purchased. When I was younger there was no sales tax in New York state but in nearby Connecticut there always was for as long as I have been around.
Sales Tax, VAT , whatever it is still something that separates a person with their earned income. LOL
Hi Bob – Well, I will readily agree that both the VAT and Sales tax are ways to separate a person from his money. But, Income Tax and Property tax could meet the same test…. yet, I would never say that Income Tax and Property Tax are the same thing. Ha ha…
Maybe I’m just picky about it, having lived under each system at one time or another. 😉
Bob:
Bad news is that they are talking VAT over here in one circle, and deny it in another. I figure it will come eventually, the g-man has to find more creative ways to raise money.
The other item on the plate is the removal of the interest deduction on the mortgage interest of primary residences. Again talked up in some circles and denied in others. I can see this one eventually going away too.
Hi Bill – Yeah, I keep reading about proposals for a VAT in the USA. I read that it is proposed to replace the Income Tax. Problem is that in the USA they tend to not replace any tax, only add additional taxes. We shall see!
Hi Bob New York,
Just to let you know the talking is over in the UK.
On 1st January 2011 the VAT will increase to 20%.
Joe public picks up the tab once again.
regards,Chas.
Bob:
As you know all to well that taxes don’t go away easily. I think we paid the Spanish American War tax for about 100 years or so before it was repealed. :-))
Hi Bill – That is true, for sure! Once a tax is in, it rarely, if ever gets repealed!
Bob, I can appreciate some of your points on this subject matter. But as an American in Texas, I disagree with a lot of what u are saying about hate… first, that is a very strong word, second, I for myself, and most anyone I know of, would say that we would rather talk to Philippians then someone from India…From talking with others and personal experience, because the Philippinas can speak English that we can understand, we get very frustrated with most of the Indians in call centers, with few exceptions. you have to really strain to understand what they are saying, especially when it come to technical help with internet services, like MSN or others…on the other hand, I have connected to very pleasant English speaking Pinoys and was always pleased. it has been a while since I have needed any help, since I have become more aware, educated and experienced with computer related issues or problems…So, since then, it has been several years. I actually think a lot of most Philippians and respect their culture. Manila , Subic Bay, and Alongapo, but that was years ago..Of course there are Americans, Philippinas, and most all cultures who hate, just because of ignorance, or a personal unpleasant, or bad experience with someone or a few….Here in Texas, we have many Philippinas who are immigrants, or citizens, and they are mostly great people and friends…
We all countries have differences,that can cause prejudgments..
what I will say is that, what some or those who have been affected by outsourcing may harbor really bad or hateful feelings usually is about Very Good paying Manufacturing jobs, leaving the States, to other countries, such as Auto manufacturing, or high-tech jobs in the electronic or computer related manufacturing. it is more anger about the Government here, and the companies who dump these employees, any who are unions..Unions cause most of their own problems, because of their unreasonable demands, and benefits, forcing many companies to go elsewhere to stay competitive, in order to sell their products and services in the world economy.
I am happy to say, that with exception of some, most American like Philippinas, and as for me, I am getting married to a pinay who is now living in Davao, this December. We have been engaged for about 7 months now. I do plan on moving to, and living in Bacolod probably sometime in the next 1 1/2 to 2 years, an her large family have accepted me as part of the family, and her brother is my best man.
Of course this may sway my opinion now, however, I have always felt this way about the country, and had a lot of compassion for the culture, and because of the poor opportunities there for jobs and financial advancement. So, this is my experience and feelings on the subject. Many Americans fought and died in the Philippines against the Japanese brutal occupation, and found along side of the Philippina people. There are many good reasons why Americans do not hate them… I just want your readers, especially the ones who are from there, to understand this Kanos perspective…finally, I would say that if these Americans would get training,or pursue an education that would give them new opportunities in new and good jobs that are growing here, and new technology, they could help themselves, but of course some of them are older and it is hard for them to adjust, or retrain, because of their financial situation from losing good jobs, and still having the same monthly expenses and bills that they could afford before.. I say, that most of the citizens there, are Christians as most Americans are, so we have many similarities.. God bless the Philippines and her people… Ro Shaw, on Face book…
correction to my statement above, i meant to say that i have been to Manila, Subic bay, and Alongapo years ago, have have fond experiences there… as with any where, we have to be careful of crime, as we do here, if you don’t pay attention to what you are doing….I agree with others here also, we do have call centers here, but those are not the high paying jobs that most Americans affected are angry about, usually included are traditional Manufacturing jobs, steel, equipment, and heavy industry.. we are going away from those type of manufacturing and have a changing, evolving country to new industry, or technology….I’m happy for those in the Philippines that have those opportunities to have jobs, and some stability, I would rather these jobs go there,than to Russia, China, or India. Ro Shaw
Hi Ro – I am afraid that the days of big manufacturing in the USA are long gone already….
The USA remains by far the biggest manufacturer in the world, so you
Americans shouldn’t be too pessimistic! And a falling dollar can only help it stay that way.
Much of the increase in the proportion of global manufacturing done in China, Malaysia, Thailand etc has actually come at the expense of Japan, not the USA.
A good dose of reality, Ken. Thanks!
it’s only cheap if it’s imported. But buying USA made is important so you can maintain the company inside your country. Buying cheap imported goods is killing your manufacturing companies, so they may decide to move to another country to survive. Loyalty is important. The companies are also having so much trouble since the competition is getting tougher, importing those cheap goods will kill the american goods. In the end they may decide to either close it or move it to a cheaper country.
Hi Ro – I think you misinterpreted some of what I said. You said that you disagree with a lot of what I said about hate. The only thing I said about hate is I asked people if they hate Filipinos because of the job situation. I do not hate Filipinos, nor did I say anything about hating anybody. I only asked if there are people who hate Filipinos. I just want to make that clear for anybody who reads the comment.
yes, i understand Bod.. I know u do not hate Philippines. I may misread that You thought that a lot of Americans hate them… Good to hear that, but i was only expressing my thoughts based on the hate. sorry for the misunderstanding I may have had, i was trying to be constructive here, not attacking.. I have respect for you and what You do.. would love to meet you when I come to Davao this winter if you will be available…thanks for your articles, they bring out good discussions and thoughts…Ro
No problem, Ro. What you wrote made me feel that you thought I hated Filipinos! Ha ha… I think I also mis-interpreted some of what you said.
When Canada & The United States signed the FTA, then brought Mexico into the fold with the NAFTA, I was very concerned. I could envision companies moving south and jobs going to the cheaper labour, first in The U.S., then Mexico. I expected to see U.S. companies buying up Canadian companies & operating them from Mexico. Well, most of this has come to pass. The only deviation was that companies were now free to operate from anywhere.
Did I hate the U.S.A. for pushing for these agreements? You’d better believe I did! Canada has been the major supplier of natural resources to the U.S. for decades; oil, water and lumber being chief among these exports. Then, one day it “hit” me. The U.S. didn’t send their army into Canada & take over, rather, our politicians handed it to them. So, I really couldn’t blame “The Yanks”. My cousins in California & my friends in Texas, had no greater input in the negotiations than I had had. My Government had taken from their electorate and given to corporations. I could only blame the weak-kneed idiots running my own country. Still, I think that many Canadians still think that it was a good idea.
Well, who would have thought that free trade agreements would have started popping up all over the world? We had been doing international trade across the globe for hundreds of years, yet, we needed free trade?
I applaud the Philippine Government for encouraging foreign companies to move their call centers to The RP. Sadly, the minute that another Asian country offers better incentives – such as lower labour rates – many of these companies will relocate. It’s a race to the bottom for the blue collar worker, but The Philippines deserves their fair share, while the opportunity exists.
So, I don’t hate Filipinos, or Indian Nationals, The Chinese, Mexicans or Americans. Global free market capitalism has been untethered by these agreements & the only choices I have are to; worry about it, take advantage of it, or ignore it. I’ve worried about it long enough and that hasn’t helped at all. So, as my injuries have dictated the end of my career, I intend to move to The Philippines and – to some small degree – take advantage of it. For the most part, however, I intend to ignore it and spend my last years enjoying The RP, my wife and my family of in-laws, our friends, our properties and my first love, sailing. Hey, the more nieces & nephews who get jobs at these call centers, the less “help” that will be requested.
Hi Mike – I, for one, am in favor of free trade. If things can be done more efficiently in other countries, then they should be done there. It is the jobs of the Americans and Canadians have to find niches that they can do efficiently to fill the jobs that they lose.
When it comes to Philippine labor… did you know that Philippine wages are among the highest in Asia? It’s true. I am not counting places like Japan or Korea, but among similar nations, the Philippines is quite an expensive place to do business.
Bob free trade is nice as long as it is in balance..Here is a example . Some time back I bought some things on E-bay from Hong Kong…..they paid the shipping and also was by resiterard mail and the total was $20.00…now the item came about in 14 days..so that was ok…..for the fun of it I asked the postal worker at the post office how much it would cost me to send the package back to Hong Kong the same way it was sent to me…..The cost would be over $30.00…now that was just the postage and the resiterard mail costs.that did not include the cost of the product…If I had to make a quess I would say the seller on this stuff made at least $10.00 profit..that is after shipping and what he or she paid the factory that made the stuff…..This is just a example of how it is very hard to compete with a off shore business.Also I am sure if I send some thing to (exmaple) Hong Kong the buyer would have to pay customs fees..I no in Vietnam they do and they are high….England same..Canada same and etc…….yet..I paid nothing as far as customs fees goes on the $20.00 package…..So..to me its kinda one sided…..other countries can send something here and spend less on shipping and etc…..yet if per say you a seller here sold soemthing to a lot of countries out side of here…the cost of shipping is sky high…price of resiterard mail will break you..then because most coutries have a high VAT….Vaule added tax on any thing that comes into their countris……just makes it pretty difficult to compete…….so I really do not call whats out there free trade………Another example…I could buy something from you in the Phillipines and chances are I would pay no duty…….and the shipping would not be to bad for you to ship to USA…but..turn that around and you buy something from me……..No.1 You be lucky if you got it…and sure you would have to pay some kinds of VAT or duty and the shipping to ship there would be a lot more to ship to you than you pay to ship to me…..of course those reading this will say..its the POST OFFICE FAULT..they make 2 much money (I read with their benifits and etc the average post worker makes around $70,000 a year )..So..with years of people trying to keep up with the cost of living and all the goverment hand outs and special intrest crap and etc…..ya…its difficult to compete here in the USA..and of course if you have a company and all the crap you put up with, with the goverment..I understand why so many companys left….and still are..So..really if a person really looks at the whole pic..there is no reason to hate Fillipinos or any other person in another country try to have a job and etc…..what people need to do here is understand that things are a mess and are getting to be a bigger mess and what the soultion is I have no idea……Maybe suck it up…every body go broke….and start over at $1.00 a hour wages…..hahah…..
Hi Dan – Problem is, on things like the taxes and the shipping costs, it is the government who set the prices. Any unfairness because the Hong Kong seller pays a low shipping cost is the fault of the US Government, not the HK seller. Also, if US consumers would stop buying the cheap stuff, that would put an end to the whole problem anyway, and put US workers back on the job. But, I doubt that would ever happen.
Your right Bob….One reason USA buyers buy off shore stuff, they can no longer find it made here in USA…The items I bought were some switches…..as far as I know they are not made here any more…..I could have bought from Mousers Electronics……but why! What they had was also made in China and the same thing, but they wanted 4-5 times as much money…As far as the US goverment setting prices on shipping not sure on that Bob……I think UPS ground and Fed X set their own rates……the USA post office has to still get approval from some Goverment board on their pricing…by the way that is one thing wrong with the Postal service…..the goverment having their hands in it…..They say the Post office is Indapendent from the Goverment, but the Goverment still pulls the strings…..One problem with the Post Office is they can not operate like a real business…they operate with per say with one hand behind their back…..one time I asked one of the post masters why the post office would not wheel and deal on say stamps..or postage…..say if you bought a lot…response was…the goverment will not let us…hahaha……I am talking stamps here and 1st class mail and such…..not bulk rate mail….I quess to sum all of this up simple is…….its the people fault…….because after all…the people put the people thru out the years in to the goverment and the goverment is nothing more than the people that are in there at any given time……
Hi Dan – It’s a catch 22… you can’t buy American made, because it is no longer made there. But, the reason it is no longer made there is because the price got out of hand and people started buying imported. Which came first? 😆
When I said that the US Government sent the postal rates, I was talking about POST OFFICE, not FedEx or UPS. Of course the US Government does not set the rates of private firms. You specifically said that “Registered Mail” was used. Registered mail goes through the Post Office, not UPS, or FedEX, so I was commenting on the service that you said was used. You even said that you went and asked at the Post Office how much the return postage would be.
Dan:
I used to work for Big Brown over five years ago, and at least at that time Big Brother definitely had input into what they considered to be “fair” rates. Now granted that usually means that the government holds down rates, but they still got their say.
I can also tell you though that shipping costs going to Asia were “loaded” to the higher side to keep shipping costs from Asia down so that the planes wouldn’t come back empty. This in fact saves us a little bit of money though, as it was explained to me by the number nerds.
If the rates were set at cost plus profit on both sides of the water, the planes would come back much less full and we’d end up paying for the whole round trip as they’d just ship by boat.
Same applies to the boats, Bill. You are exactly right. US imports lots of goods from Asia, so the boats are full going from Asia to the US. Boats are empty coming back to Asia, though.
Efficiency, regardless of quality and safety, Bob? I’m assuming you do not mean this, though these issues exist.
Have you no concern for the millions of North Americans whom have lost their earning capacity due to free trade? Do you really expect a middle-aged worker to simply “re-invent” him/herself? I am sure that North American workers would have no problem with earning similar wages to our Asian counterparts, providing that costs of living were equally reduced. As this is certainly not going to happen “overnight”, why should the workers be forced to suffer the losses?
LOL Well, I have deleted the continued rant, but you picked the conroversial topic and one must weigh all related issues when responding to your article.
When I first arrived in Davao, the two questions I was asked more often than any others were:
1) What can you say about the philippines?
2) What can you say about Filipinos/as?
For answering the first question, I talked about what I call the “Robinson Crusoe” dream that so many North Americans & Europeans share. For the second, I explained that I didn’t marry my wife because she was from The RP, I married her for who she was as a person. I also remarked that I was new to The Philippines but figured that, just like everywhere else in the world, there were good & bad people. My wife could just as easily have been from India, so I don’t begrudge them the work, either. But my telephone and internet costs have not dropped since the call centers moved to Davao. My natural gas bill hasn’t been reduced since someone in Bangalore began answering Kinder Morgan’s phones. So, if I have the opportunity to elect a government that will bring about a reversal of the situation – yes, I know I’m dreaming – I hope that the people in India and The RP won’t hate me for doing so.
Hi Mike – I believe that the majority of people support free trade. If they didn’t, then free trade would not exist. We see this issue differently. I do not fault you for your views, we just have different views, that’s all. I believe that free trade is good for people in all countries involved in that trade.
I never said anything about quality or safety, Mike. No, I did not say that those issues should be ignored. Why would you imply that I said that?
Of course, I have concern for people who are having hard times, whether they be in the Philippines, USA, Canada or China.
OK, so companies can start making things in the US or Canada. Then they will charge 4 or 5 times the price. People in those countries will have jobs, but will not have enough money to pay for the “locally made” goods. I don’t see how this helps them.
It’s a big issue, Mike. It’s not as simplistic as you make it out to be.
I didn’t imply anything, Bob. I simply wished to make the point that it would be simplistic to discuss efficiency of production without also giving consideration to quality and safety of products and safety issues of employees. China has managed to sell goods in North America that could not be made in Canada of the U.S., or by Canadians or Americans under the existing laws.
If you’re familiar with the NAFTA, you must recognize that it was not as good a deal for Canada or Mexico, as it was for the U.S. . SO, from my perspective as a Canadian, I believe that it was a mistake. Far more, here, are now suffering the result than benefiting from it, it just took a while for the negative aspects to appear. When you were still in The U.S., would you have been willing to have Canadian companies controlling your utilities? Would you have wanted Canadian companies exploiting your natural resources, without any greater contribution than your own companies make? I doubt it.
I agree that it is not a simplistic issue, Bob, as I agree that we have different beliefs. To this point, however, the status quo that you prefer has not benefited the average Canadian or American, though it has been of great benefit to a few. As for the majority supporting “Free Trade”, the Canadian Government of the day whom initially signed on to free trade was removed – historically, the worst loss in Canadian Federal elections – and the party that replaced them broke their promise & kept the agreement. The details of the third part of the agreement, the MAI(Multi-lateral Agreement on Investments) was not even presented to the public in any of the signatory countries until post-implementation. Why? it would not have been accepted.
Anyway, Bob, I hope you do not mind that I have shared my impressions.
Hi Mike – I don’t mind at all that you shared your thoughts. I have no problem with disagreement as long as it is civil. You have been civil and polite, as I hope I have. While I disagree strongly with almost everything you say on the topic, I have no problem with you sharing your opinion.
I agree, NAFTA is bad for America too. we have unsafe Mexican trucks on our roads, and many legal issues. also, it is more beneficial to Mexico than Canada or USA. WE IN TEXAS, DON’T WANT NAFTA.
Sorry, Ro, couldn’t disagree more!
Hi Bob.
I don’t blame the businesses for sending the jobs overseas. I put the blame on the government. Businesses are in business to make money. It’s excessive taxes, rules, and regulations that have forced many a business to outsource their product.
In another life I was a Manufacturing Engineer. One by one the company’s I worked for reduced Its workforce, or shut its doors. All those years getting a degree shot to hell (lol). But I got to see first hand how those company’s we’re struggling to compete in a global market.
I went back to school and got my boiler license, and now I’m a Stationary Engineer. I’d like ’em try to outsource that job 🙂 BTW, the “V” belts we use on our electric motors come from the Philippines.
Hi hudson – I do not blame the Businesses or the Government. I blame American consumers. They always want the cheapest price. If they have a choice between the same item made in the USA for $1, or made in China for 75 cents, most of them are going to grab the Chinese knock-off. What are companies to do? If they manufacture in the USA, nobody will buy the product because it is too expensive.
Bob:
You hit the nail on the head right there… Very few people are actually willing to pay the price differential, regardless of whether they say they will or not. It is the same thing I face in sales when talking environmental. Everyone wants things “greener”, but very few want to pay the price.
A little perspective, related to Mike’s comment: When NAFTA was enacted, there was the huge political row about stealing jobs and so on for several years. What was the real impact? Mexico’s entire economy, including oil, was smaller than that of Ohio. Nearly irrelevant in terms of the big picture.
Stealing jobs? It was not so long ago that McDonalds had to run TV advertising in the United States in order to fill positions. Their jobs were, and still often are, looked upon with disdain. At my last job, we utilized a call center in Lubbock, Texas (I visited there). They still had problems filling positions that paid slightly better than minimmum wage, despite being located adjacent to Texas Tech University.
Bottom line is that most of the jobs that people are screaming about are low-skill factory jobs that most Americans would not perform, or agricultural or service jobs.
In shipbuilding, the Jones Act protects US shipyards by requiring US crews and US-built ships on domestic routes. What has happened is that shipping companies only build in the US if they are operating there… The shipping industry was allowed to stagnate from this protection (Why innovate when you are guaranteed business?), and now the US, which used to lead, by far, the world in shipbuilding, is now ranked at something like number 15. Korea and Japan are the technical and quality leaders (NOT the most expensive), and China is where they are built cheap. The Chinese are rapidly catching up in technology and quality, too. The US shipbuilding industry saw orders dry up completely, and now primarily builds for the US Navy. What the regulations did was keep a very small group protected, while the rest of the industry was allowed to die.
I don’t hate Filipinos, or Indians, or Chinese for outsourcing. They are just trying to make a living. Trade is not the zero-sum game that people and special interests make it out to be. In reality, if people wouldn’t be willing to buy that Chinese TV, then the Chinese wouldn’t manufacture it.
Hi John – I agree, a lot of people are good when it comes to the talk… but when it is time to pull out that wallet and put some money on the table… well… things take a turn for the worse!
I agree with you that if people were not willing to lay money down for a TV from China, it would not have been manufactured in the first place! It’s only common sense, after all.
it’s a real catch 22 situation bob.
a piece of product that will cost 1 hour in production and 7 dollars to pay the worker just to make it in the u.s – americans would not even consider of buying it for 8 dollars, (1 dollar profit?)
same product produced in china will only cost american consumer for just under 2 dollars. – do you think the same product can be made locally in the u.s for just under 1 dollar? – definitely it can be done, now, here’s the big ifs – *IF* the american worker is willing to be paid less than a dollar an hour.
So true, dans. And, even if the Chinese just charge $1, they are still making a nice profit!
Bob:
You hit the nail on the head. That’s what made a retailer with buildings the size of football fields wealthy.
It also has to do with service, as I’ve come to expect absolutely dismal service everywhere I go. There is no value proposition, which reduces everyone to compete on price.
There is a national home improvement chain though that provides excellent service on average, with knowledgeable employees and such, and I do pay more to go there.
Hi Bill – I think I know which retailer you are talking about there! The Depot, right?
Bob
I HATE FILIPINO’S No but should I. The story went like this.
My Wife worked for CHERRY Semiconductor for 12 years here in RI, they were bought out by ONN Semiconductor that had plants in Arizona and Laguna Manila in the Philippines. My Wife was a Trainer of new employees here and she was excellent at her job to say the least.
When ONN Semiconductor bought out the company they sent appx 12 employees/managers/engineers etc from the Laguna plant here to RI. My Wife trained them all, most of them came to our house for food drinks my 4oth birthday party, karaoke and a good time, my Wife took them out shopping showed them all the local attractions etc. These people were all very nice people and I DO NOT have a bad word to say about any of them and will visit them some day when I get to the Phil.
1 Year later my Wife’s job and all the 500 jobs at her plant were phased out and sent to the Laguna Manila Plant because they expanded their overseas function and assembly. They gave her 1 weeks pay severance for each year she worked for them, big friggin deal.
They still have their head quarters in Phoenix AZ
I am not a Filipino hater at all, but I do hate what our countries laws and regulations have done to this country as far as overseas manufacturing and having their headquarters here in the USA.
The USA doesn’t manufacture anything anymore and it is a sad situation.
Wow, quite a story, Neal. I feel bad for your wife, without a doubt. I wonder when ONN will move to China and abandon the Philippines! 😯
Bob..they could move to Vietman..wages there cheaper than in China
True indeed!
it’s an endless cycle bob!.
in the next 10 years, you would probably be asking the filipinos, “do you hate chineese or vietnamese?”
Ha ha.. for sure, dans!
Bob
I have a feeling that if they crunched the figures they would abandon the manufacturing in the Phil and move anywhere. Its all about the almighty dollar, but it doesn’t do any good to be bitter about it.
True, Neal – no reason to stress yourself out over spilled milk.. there is nothing you can do anyway.
Ha ha.. you are probably right on that one, Neal!
Neal;
While on active duty stationed in Charleston South Carolina in the early 70’s, they (SC) passed the liquor by the drink law, where Hotels could now sell mixed drinks. The problem was there were no bartenders, only beer tenders. I was hired by a large hotel, as I knew how to mix drinks, and was earning more on a weekend than the Navy paid me in two weeks. Then pretty girls in very short skirts started appearing behind the bar with me. The manager told me it was my job to train them, I smiled and told him to pack sand, as I knew that when they were trained, I was history. So we made a deal, he doubled my pay and guaranteed me six months more work if I trained them (a great job for a single guy), my Navy tour there was up, so I took the deal.
Paul
That was a job with benefits.
Im not much of a mixed drink person but I have been known to indulge in a few
Slippery Nipples or Sex on the Beach.
Bob I know you are in here lurking about so these are real drinks.
What happened after 6 months, Paul? Did he can you?
Bob;
No the US Navy sent me to a new Ship in Newport R.I. My work in South Carolina helping the girls in short skirts was done. (Ah, fond memories!)
Ah, I misunderstood… I thought your time with the Navy was done! Helping girls in short skirts tends to be a good thing, Paul!
Hi Neal,
1 weeks severance pay for 1yr worked,is still quite a common occurence in the Uk,if you have been with the company less than 5yrs.
If the company gets taken over,many do not honor the previous arrangement,as they consider it,new company,new start.
Yeah life sucks sometimes.
regards,Chas.
chas
I guess that was part of the buyout plan that was agreed to. So my wife got 12 weeks severnce pay for the old company and 1 week for the new company buyout so 13 weeks severence pay total.
Funny how it worked out tho because when they went thru the restructuring and buyout they were short on cash and the stock fell to .89 a share we bought 5 thousand shares and held it for about 3 years then she company started to reap the benefits of the relocation and buyout and the stock rose to 8 dollars a share then we sold it all. Of course the taxman took his share of it as capital gains.
Bob..I do no hate Fillipinos and I understand they are happy to have a job. What I do not like is how our goverment sold us out some time back and gave a lot of these big corps big tax breaks and etc. Of course there was a lot of jobs lost and also a lot of tax money lost also.Also what I hate is when I get some on on the phone when have a problem and they no nothing about the problem and just read from a piece of paper or off the screeen, that is what I hate most. The USA made some bad moves some time back and still are and every body will be paying for them in one way or the other.I find that on most things I buy now days do not take the extended warranty(just take my chances) have learned the amount of time you spend on the phone trying to resovle a problem you could take that time and go buy something else and be ahead, and also if for example it has some thing to do with a internet provider, I just by pass the out outsourcing help by phone and get a hold of a real person in the USA and go from there…
Hi Dan – I think that what you wrote in your last sentence is not what you meant to say… the way it reads, it sounds like you are saying that people outside the USA are not “real people”. I think what you meant was that you try to reach a real person in the USA, as opposed to some automated recording in the USA.
Anyway, I do not blame the US Government, I blame the US consumer. They demand lower, lower, lower prices. Because of it, US companies were forced to find cheaper labor, and thus, a lot of jobs left the USA. Somebody mentioned in an earlier comment, I think it was Paul, about the parking lot at Ford being filled with imported cars. Perfect example.
Bob your right…….I ment by “real People” some one in person..not on the phone….Yes..it could be the US consumer…..My self..I would not mind paying more for something made here if the quality was good…that is another story ..quality…A lot of USA company do not know what quality is any more……I am still trying to find a perry knife to peel vegatables and can not find a good one yet…..most are made in China that are sold here.(all of Wall Marts Knifes are )..and they are good for about 3 spuds and then are dull, but say they are made out of Stainless steel…..hahaha…try to sharpen one of those wonderfull knifes…….I quess I will just have to make a small forge and make my own knife one of these days..I will need to look hard and see if can find a old…very old…railroad tie spike……as far as cars goes………I have never had a import……but my last Chevrolet I bought near 10 years ago has been the biggest piece of junk…..A prime example of how one USA car maker lost what quality means…..I am all most ready to belive that any thing Made in the USA is not made any better than in China or where ever….
Hi Dan – Do you remember the days when a US made product was always high quality. Stuff from Japan was cheap junk. Stuff from China was even worse than junk. The tables have turned, I’m afraid.
Dan
Talk about a kick in the nads, the last Harley Davidson front wheel I bought was stamped on the inside “Made is Australia”
Now that is something, Neal! Harley has always had a lot of pride about being American made!
American Assembled, Harley carbs are from Japan.
😯
Bob,
That had nothing to do with cheaper prices. Ford, GM, Chrysler built inferior products in the 1980s/90s. I resigned as the GSM of a GM store to go travelling in Asia in 1990. At that time, one could buy a domestic as cheaply as an import, but the domestics were crap! I never tried to sell a GM product to family members, always sending them to friends who worked for Toyota. The fellow who owned our dealership also owned a Hyundai dealership and always drove a top of the line Hyundai. As a tradesperson, I never bought the cheapest tools, either, and companies like Snap-on, and Craftsman still exist because most tradespersons won’t buy the cheap crap. But, I wouldn’t be surprised if they moved to Asia to expand their profit margin. Sometimes, it’s simply un-tethered corporate greed.
Hi Mike – In the cases of GM and some other auto manufacturers, the loss of jobs and market share to Asian companies is nobody’s fault but their own. Greed made them go cheap on the construction of their product. Customers moved elsewhere where prices were a bit lower and quality higher. People voted with their pocketbooks. It was the fault of the companies, and it was also the fault of the workers and their unions who kept pushing for more, more, more. After time passed, the US and Canadian built vehicles were no longer competitive, and the market was lost.
Now, many Asian companies are building their cars in the USA. But, they are doing it under different conditions than GM and Ford did. No unions. Workers focusing more on Quality, etc. The world has changed. Whether a person is successful or not depends a lot on how flexible he is and how willing he is to embrace the changes. It’s too late to reverse course, so the best thing that people can do is find a niche that they can fill, and get to work.
Hi Bob
I think this recession has forced the US Automakers to change the way they do business. I really think there products are improving now. What helped too was the recent problems Toyota had with there vehicles. Keep up the good job.
Hi Randy – Ha ha… yeah, the recalls sure didn’t help Toyota any, did they? 😯
Dan,
I agree with you about not buying extended warranties,apart from the fact that the retailer gets a big kickback off the insurance co,if its going to break,its most likely to do it in the first 1yr,which is covered by the manufactures guarrantee anyway.Most problems if they do arise after that time,are usually minor.
In the Philippines though,its a whole different ball game.
regards,Chas.
Chas…You are right on there..that is why I never buy a extended warrantie….the retailer makes big money there……just go to for example BEST BUY..the big elextronics place or the Shack…Oh, I meant Radio Shack…….they both try to sell you hard on the extended warranties…….as far as their in the Philippines do not know on that other that Bob had a big post on that some time back and from what I got out of that……warrantie there is worthless let a lone extended…
Remember, though, in the end, I did get a brand new monitor!
HI BOB……GOOD POSTING MATE….
But i canot hate them as i have my own wife working in a call center in manila and as been now for over 3 years and love it she gets about $500 a mouth but as too work all night and sleep in the day time but part from that she love what she is doing there and this coming 23 she is flying down to Davao City to training up more girls there for the call centers in that city so look out mate there are going to be more and more ppl doing it lol
from peter martin tassie
Hi Peter – Good day to you! So, your wife is headed here to Davao! That’s great, I hope she enjoys it here! I’m glad that she has had success in the call center business!
Hi Bob,
The world keeps on moving and changing,we need to be flexible,sometimes we need to re-train,re-educate and adapt.
Even before China or the Phils came on the scene,we Brits have had to re-invent ourselves many times over the years.
In the 70s we saw many industries destroyed eg Car and Motorcycle Industries to name but a few,many people blamed the Japanese,some the Germans.Much of the problem was caused by major companies resting on their laurels,(ring any current bells,GM etc) while the overseas competition chipped away at them,not to mention the damage caused by the Unions.
I ended up on my rear in two previous recessions,i pounded the streets,knocking on doors looking for job opportunities,not content on welfare.I found jobs,yes i was under-employed but it paid the bills,no luxuries though.
When those busts were over,i moved upwards and onwards very quickly,jobs became abundant,there were actually shortages of labour,which is why immigrants were welcomed.
Its just too easy to blame others as many do,sometimes we need to look at our own lifestyles.
A very rich wise man once told me “Boom follows Bust,Bust follows Boom,its always been that way,and will always be so”.”In boom times,always prepare for the next bust”.
I wish i had met him much earlier in my life,instead of having to learn the hard way.
Life is a Roller Coaster,you just got a ride it.
regards,Chas.
Ha ha.. you are so right about GM, chas!
I’m like you, chas… I have been without a job before, but through my own effort of knocking on doors and such, I always found something to keep me busy, and pay the bills. I’ve certainly been underemployed, but when I was, I was always able to work my way into better positions in the company.
Yeah,sometimes we have to get out of our comfort zone lol.
Talking about Call Centres in the Phils,even with good pay rates,i read somewhere recently that staff turnover rates are extremely high,and some co’s are taking steps to find out why.Whether its the night shifts,monotony or the headhunting bonus’s by competitors,i don’t know.
I also know (without mentioning names) the biggest call centre in Davao City only employ around 20% of all applicants.The reason given is that their english language is not good enough.It is understandable though that the english language requirements are high.
The biggest complaints i ever heard about Indian Call Centres,was that many staff simply did not understand the native english speaking customers.Thats not hard to figure out with so many english dialects and common use of “slang”words.
Hi Chas – You are so right on the slang language.. but the Filipinos are just like the Indians… they don’t understand the street English. I don’t mind naming names… if you are talking of the biggest call center in Davao, you must be talking about Southerland. Their operation is only 10 minutes walk from my house. The reason the number of applicants who become employed is so low is because most people here cannot make the cut when it comes to being able to speak English well enough to get the job.
Off topic,but it may give someone an idea out there.
One recession when it was extremely difficult to find any job due to the competition,i became very frustrated.
The next interview i managed to get,i offered to work 1 week for nothing,starting the following day,to prove i could do the job well (at least i would still get my welfare,my mates thought i had gone crazy,lol).
They took up my offer,after my 1 “free” week they were satisfied and gave me the job.
They told me later,they had never before had such an offer from an applicant,and it showed that i was very determined and confident that i could satisfy their needs.
When i received my first months pay check,they also told me they had paid me for my “free”week.I kept up the good work and was promoted 6 months later.
I think you would call it,”thinking outside the box”.
Good Luck,Chas.
That’s cool, chas! Great that it worked out for you too!
hey Bob, always try to wear my hat on my head. lol, sorry just couldn’t resist, enjoyed the article. Made it home safe, hope to see you again in a year
Like many i have had a few issues when trying to understand a person from India regarding technical issues related to computers , cable , etc but i never equated those experiences with hating people of a particular culture .
Also , like some i have had issues with the US Government in regards to World Trade – Global Economy . In my case the North American Free Trade Agreement was a part of the decision my last employer made to re-locate it’s manufacturing facility to Mexico .
I had already moved to the Philippines by the time the local unit i worked for was phased out but it did have a far reaching impact upon me years later . I returned to the US a few years later in part due to my aged mother but also in part to earn some additional income while there .
I could not get a job doing anything , anywhere . In part because i had been out of the labour market for a few years and abroad but for the most part because i could not verify my previous employment . American companies generally need verification of employment references before hiring (at least legally) .
Because the company i had last worked for had migrated abroad and also because it was now wholly owned by a Canadian group i could not get any assistance regarding my past work experience . The state i worked in could not , or would not provide a copy of my employment record .
After repeated attempts at contacting the Canadian ownership their response was basically that they were not required to provide employment records for “pre-existing” employees by statues of the NAFTA act . Despite my pleadings that i did still “exist” i could get no where .
In the end , despite several companies that wanted to offer a position upon verification of previous employment no one would hire me . Keep in mind that i am not talking about an engineering job or the like but just something to supplement me and i was willing to work for $12 – 15 an hr to do so (but don’t get me started on “Americans won’t work for those wages” argument). 🙂
So , do i resent Filipinos or other cultures for outsourcing ? No , but i sure as hell do resent my own government for basically making it so easy for outsourcing to take away so many jobs . Even worse in my mind is the governments insistence on providing free assistance (handouts) to illegals and not for legals in genuine need . But , that’s a rant for another day . 🙂
Sad story, Alan. I’m sorry that it worked out that way for you.
Sounds like we should become citizens of another country and then sneak back into the US and start working again so that way we could better benefits. 🙂
Alan,
It may sound strange,but some companies in the UK refuse to give references at all,and will only just confirm that you worked for them.
I believe the reason is,that if the contents of the reference gets discovered by the named employee,he/she could sue if they considered the reference unfavourable.
Chas: Most US companies are the same… The job market is so litigious, they rarely will do any more than confirm that someone worked there, because they are afraid of being sued.
Thanks John.
John
Your right John about that. Its really sad that it has come to that. Not being able to weed out people with poor work records.
Hi chas – When I worked in management for a US company, we were always instructed that when called for a reference on a worker, we were only allowed to give the dates of employment and nothing else.. good or bad.
Hi Bob,
I don’t feel any hate for jobs going to the Philippines or any other country where the people are willing to do the work that others may feel is beneath them. True some people here in the US like call center work and many people will take those type of jobs when they are unemployed just to make ends meet. But when times are good people don’t like to take those types of jobs for many reasons. And when you have a business then you want to have employees who are reliable and will stay with your company plus do the job exactly the same way you trained them to do when they were first hired.
Now I have worked in call centers here and have seen all types of people that work in those companies. Most people though would prefer to work some place else and make better wages and given the opportunity they would leave. One such company here was like a revolving door with employees coming and going. Every 3 weeks they had a new batch of about 30 new employees. I think they employed over have of the city I live in at one point.
But when you look at call center jobs, lawn care, restaurants, convenience stores and so forth you don’t see alot of Americans working in these jobs here in the US. You see Mexicans, Arabics, Asians and whatever other nationals working in them because they are willing to do the job that others have decided they are too good. So I think call center jobs going to countries where they can benefit people who want to work and are willing to work and do a good job is a good thing.
Hi Darin – I hear you, my friend. The burger flipping or call center jobs are great if you have to put food on the table, but as soon as a “good” job comes along, people will jump at it in a second.
Maayong buntag, Charles. Oo, mao gyud ang dictions sa mga Pilipino. Mao na nga naay daghang trabaho sa mga call centers diri sa Pilipinas!
Bob,
About a month ago I got a call from a telemarketer. When she started giving me the canned speil, it was obvious she was a filipina. I asked her where in the Philippines she was calling from. As It turns out, she was an OFW working for a call center in Mexico City. Talk about strange.
Ha ha… funny! That OFW could come back and get a call center job in the Philippines!
Hi Al – I enjoyed our meeting last week, and I’m glad that you had a safe trip home! Look me up next time you are in town!
Bob, I have not resentment or anger towards anyone working-anywhere for whatever reason. I do however hold a ton of resentment for a government (U.S.) that creates policy that encourages outsourcing. I remember hearing President Clinton say that the jobs leaving America are jobs that Americans do not want to do. (I paraphrased). I remember Ross Perot in a debate between Clinton, Bush 41 and himself saying that if NAFTA passed you would hear a giant sucking sound of jobs leaving America. Everyone wants to pile on China for producing products that Americans buy-well Walmart and its ilk are always busy. We might complain about the job but we sure like the lower price. There was a time in America where our government would protect jobs by adding tariffs to imported products. Those days are long gone in America but not in our competitor countries. I remember a few years ago sitting next a very impressive woman from China. She was on her way to Cincinnati, Ohio to purchase two advanced MRI machines for her company. I would say its been three years now so I am sure the Chinese have copied it to a point where they either manufacture that machine completely or have one that is just as good for less. Again goverment policy. There was a time where China would have to steal that technology-not buy it openly. China is one of the largest manufacturers of computers in the world. Did they create this technology? Not a chance-they bought IBM and named it Leveno. Again I blame our U.S. government for this. I read about and debate others that feel the U.S. Government wants a redistribution of wealth around the world. I used to aggressively argue against this idea-now I kind see it happening. For example they have created a set of standards for Washers and Dryers in the U.S. that are just too expensive to manufacture. So now I see Samsungs that are not bound to those policies grabbing the market. It is insane what our government is doing. I am not biased against a democratic or republican administration-they both have a stake in what is happening here in the U.S…. Our government allows 19 South American and Central American countries to join in a lawsuit agains Arizona. Amazing if you want my opinion. Teddy Roosevelt would have probably declared war on thier arrogance alone-this administration welcomes them. I am so sick of it all. Please, when can I just move to the Philippines and turn off the news and just enjoy the days I have on this wonderful planet with my family? I wrote too much and I apologize. Ron
Hi Ron – I sure do remember Perot talking about that sucking sound! ha ha… thanks for the reminder.
I don’t blame Walmart for the Chinese stuff. It’s the people who shop at Walmart. If they didn’t buy, there would be no Chinese stuff. You know who does the buying? Basically 100% of Americans. Yeah, there are a few who try not to, but very few.
Small correction. The Chinese did not buy IBM. They only bought IBM’s personal computer manufacturing arm. But, you are right other than that.
When can you move to the Philippines? The planes fly every day, Ron! See you next week? 😉
Ron,
Once while working in Korea I heard “An Old Sea Story”. It seems that a Korean Shipyard was building a ship for a US company. This ship required 4 US made generator engines. The Korean shipyard only ordered one. When the ship was completed there they were; 4 new generator engines! Upon close inspection it was determined that indeed they were all identical. Right down to the SERIAL NUMBERS!
Oops!
Jade
Hi Bob – Firstly let me say I do not hate Filipinos because they take jobs away from our respective countries.
The real reason why jobs are outsourced to overseas countries is to ensure that shareholders maintain their dividends on an ever increasing scale. Yes profit is the main driver why companies outsource their business and the result is what’s called globalisation.
I worked in the UK furniture manufacturing industry and you can just imagine the effect of moving call centre type work overseas. The construction industry suffered who built the thousands of call centres, the furniture industry suffered who manufactured and supplied the work stations, cabinets and chairs. The computer and service providers suffered as well as the many training organisations who continually trained the necessary staff. It was a big blow when outsourcing to overseas companies became the in thing to do.
It’s only now that our respective countries are suffering the effects of outsourcing as with the loss of jobs comes the loss in ability to purchase and local businesses are the first to suffer the effects.
The irony is a reduction in time of the number of people who may use the services of the overseas call centres therefore not making it beneficial for them to remain overseas in the longer term.
Just my thoughts on the situation.
Jim.
Hi Jim – You are so right. It’s not just the one worker who gets replaced by an overseas call center worker, it’s the construction crews, the furniture maker, etc. Even the people working for the electricity company, because there are fewer customers for their service. The ripple effects go wide.
Also,
Its not just the jobs leaving the host country (US, UK etc) its also the capital. when the job moves off shore, so does the manufacturing equipment to produce it. (thats capital) All were left with is an empty building. Look at the rust belt in the US.
About the only thing that frustrates me in talking with someone in a foriegn call center is when I can not understand what they are saying. I always ask when speaking to someone at a call center where they are located just out of curiousity and most are either India or Philippines that I come into contact with.
I think any call center employee should be required to enroll and pass a course in IELTS or TOFEL ( English language fluency courses ) although that may raise the cost of operating a call center. At least recently there seem to be more and more ” Chat With A Representative ” chat boxes available on manufacturer or company websites and this gets around the language / accent barrier.
About 10 years ago there were some local call centers in nearby Connecticut and those jobs were paying between $8 and $12 per hour. Worldwide communication was still costly in many cases even ten years ago and since the cost has come down drastically more and more call center jobs have moved to other countries.
I rationalize this to myself as, if you want a toll free number to call and free help over the phone you are not going to easily get that from a company that employs a USA based call center staffed by Amreicans.
I have watched manufacturing move out of the USA most of my life, from the early 1960’s and onward. Japan was turning out quality products by this time if you wanted to pay for it and if you didn’t you’d get the cheap stuff. Some products were disguised by having more American sounding names on them. I used to have open reel recording equipment branded under the name ” Roberts ” ( No connection to Roberts Radio of the UK ). These tape machines were really manufactured by Akai but in the early 60’s the foriegn sounding name would have scared off potential sales. Those tape machines lasted me for many many years without failure. Sony was also putting out decent quality cost effective equipment in those days as well.
It is nearly impossible to manufacture consumer or mass market products in the USA these days. Many things are made with automation processes and those machines that do the manufacturing can be set up and operated anyplace in the world so the quality is going to be the same.
Another thing often overlooked are U.S. Govt agencies like OSHA and the EPA which cost manufacturers and others millions of Dollars a year. Most recently OSHA has been going after the U.S. Postal service resulting in USPS spending millions in keeping up with the increasing requirements imposed by OSHA, and you wonder why the cost of postage keeps going up and the Post office still cries Broke !
Rather than put up with the continual difficulties of all kinds of having things ” Made In USA ” the only choice is to go somewhere else or go out of business. If Walmart wants to buy 10 Million digital electric can openers with a famous name manufacturer on it and it must sell for $12,95 per unit, obviously a famous name company can not make them here.
About the only remaining manufacturers that survived were those making large heavy bulky items that it was not cost effective to ship half way around the world from Asian countries. NAFTA killed that off as now most of those items are made in Mexico. Just build a factory on the other side of the border and no more worries about OSHA, EPA, Unions and other high costs and the product is easily transported back into the USA.
I never really thought it was foriegn companies that came knocking on our door to provide us with products, it was the other way around, USA Companies went knocking on the doors of foriegn manufacturers to ” Make A Deal ” .
Since I have become acquainted with The Philippines I have had many pleasureable conversations with some of the Filipinas in these call centers and I have little if any difficulty understanding them on the phone.
Hi Bob – probably your experience (and mine) of being able to better understand Filipino agents when calling call centers is mirrored by those who spend time in India… they can understand the Indian agents better and cannot understand the Filipinos! 😉
My brother Jack is back in Cebu for a few months in case he hasn’t contacted you. His web access is kind of spoty there. He had DSL installed but he says it’s about as fast as dialup.
HI David – Yes, I have been in touch with Jack, although it’s been a while. I hope his internet access is back to normal soon!
Hi Bob. There are so many outsourced jobs especially BPO/KPO here in the Philippines. You have IBM, HP, Reuters, Standard and Poors, Bank of America, JP Morgan, eBay, Detusche, NY Times (believe me, if you want to know where the heck is your paper, and you call, you know who’s gonna be answering that query). I’ve got friends working for these companies here in Manila. Most college grads go to a BPO industry because of the salary. Imagine getting 28k just for few minutes of customer service halfway around the world.
But the funny thing.. despite that, majority of Filipinos still prefer to work in the US even if it’s just a server at Mc Donalds or housekeeping duties at a hotel never mind if they’re over qualifed as most have degrees. That’s the reality. They still see the US as the land of milk and honey.
Oh and yeah, Americans should not hate Filipinos, I don’t think they do.
Hi Sugar – I believe you… there are lots of worldwide companies doing outsourcing here in the Philippines. It boggles the mind! And, it keeps growing.
The reason that I titled the article “Do you hate Filipinos” is because I have talked to a lot of Americans who have told me that they “hate Filipinos and Indians” because of the outsourcing. I think it’s crazy, but a lot of Americans are hurting due to the lack of jobs, and I guess they just have feelings of anger and hate. I agree with you that they should not hate Filipinos.. but there are some who do.
It’s funny that Ron should mention Teddy Roosevelt probably declaring war on some Central and South American countries for suing Arizona. Well, Roosevelt did send Dewey to Manila and started a chain of events that led to the Philippine-American war, a war rarely talked about. For it was a war not fought to “preserve our freedoms”, as the Americans would say, but was America’s first attempt at colonialism, a war where Filipino deaths were higher than injuries, where whole villages were massacred as reprisal for the death of a single American soldier, and a budding Philippine Republic, which did America no harm, was crushed.
Filipinos should have enough reasons to hate Americans. But, irony of ironies, Filipinos have the highest positive views of the US, more than twice the rating Britons and Canadians give the US. (That includes me, by the way.)
http://www.globescan.com/news_archives/bbc06-3/index.html
Teddy Roosevelt sent Dewey to Manila? How about McKinley sending Commodore Dewey to whip Admiral Montojo in the Battle of Manila Bay in 1898?
There may be other versions, John, but a Voice of America broadcast says:
Admiral George Dewey commanded the Pacific Fleet. Dewey had received a message from the Assistant Secretary of the Navy, Theodore Roosevelt. If war broke out, it said, he was to attack the Spanish naval force in the Philippines. The Spanish force was commanded by Admiral Patricio Montojo.
http://www.manythings.org/voa/history/144.html
But the more important point is that years later, Filipinos were whipped by the Americans much, much more than Montojo.
Not all outsourced jobs are low paying, consumer facing, inbound / outbound call center work. Mfg, engineering, architecture, IT, BP… Look at the full range of products and services offered by companies such as Wipro, Infosys, Cognizant, VanceInfo… Global competition for labor is only going to increase. There are also jobs “outsourced” to the US, although a drop in the bucket compared to the other direction.
Hi Gary – I have to admit, I have never thought of jobs being outsourced to the USA, but actually it does not surprise me. I mean, if you have an expert in the USA, no reason a company anywhere in the world would not want to outsource consulting to him, or something similar. Interesting thought.
Hi Bob – Nicely opened can of worms you have there. 😆
As to outsourcing and gripes – if it wasn’t about outsourcing, then it would be about the higher prices paid without outsourcing.
I’ve yet to see a single job outsourced from WalMart, Sam’s Club, etc. How can that be? Lack of unions, one might guess? When a Ford plant worker has his buddy punch the time clock for him while he takes a day off and the foreman has to look the other way unless the shop steward brings manufacturing to a halt, the result is an auto priced higher than a similar sized model from, say, Toyota.
Then, again, I think we could “outsource” some of the government jobs to the civilian sector – that would produce work for frustrated burger flippers and get them off the taxpayers’ backs.
Oh – a mention of VAT – Value Added Tax – that tax is “enjoyed” at every step of the economic walk from raw materials to finished product within the final owner’s home. Cut down a tree – pay VAT – cut it into lumber – pay VAT – ship lumber to manufacturer – pay VAT – manufacture a rocking chair – pay VAT – ship rocking chair to wholesaler – pay VAT – wholesaler sells to retailer – pay VAT – retailer sells to customer – pay sales tax AND the accumulated VAT that is tacked onto the costs at every step of the way. Something many don’t think about when they talk VAT: When the customer pays sales tax, part of that sales tax is actually on the accumulated VAT (if a VAT is imposed along the way).
Talk about taxation without representation! 😯
Hi Paul – I don’t mind getting into a can of worms from time to time. A little controversy is good for getting readers to the site, after all! 😉
Your idea of outsourcing some government jobs to the private sector is an interesting thing to consider!
Outsourcing some government jobs to the private sector has been going on for a long time, Bob. In the government lingo, they are called “contractors”. The government would put out the job(s) for bid, and, needless to say, the contractor that bids the lowest gets the contract, but not always. There are other factors that go into play, like the reliability and history of the contractor and the quality of his work. Entire sections of a division, sometimes an entire division of a federal agency have been known to be “outsourced” to private contractors, who, in turn, may outsourced certain portions of the work outsourced to them to other contractors These government contractors do not, however, receive the same benefits as as federal workers in the GS classifications do. Also, contractor employees get paid much less for the same work performed by the federal worker, which, afterall, is the reason why the work was contracted out.
A disappointing loss for the Redskins last night against the Colts. 🙁
The question is, John… when will the US Government start outsourcing the work of the Country to the Philippines or India? 😯
Probably not a chance, Bob, since most government work require security clearance and U.S. citizenship, but not all. There must be some government work out there that do not require security clearance and/or citizenship that could be outsourced overseas, but I have no idea what they are. The closest thing that comes to mind may be in the translation business when no or very few U.S. citizens have the language expertise. I know that the DEA (Drug Enforcement Agency) work with contractor companies (but they are U.S.-based) that provide them the language services they need in their international drug-interdiction missions that takes them to far-flung corners of the globe, including, yes, Zamboanga and the Sulu Straits. Anyone here speak Chavacano or Tausug?
Hi John… sorry.. I was just joking on that! 😉
That’s an interesting view of VAT you and Bob share Paul, but I don’t understand it! As a UK wholesaler and retailer, I don’t actually pay the VAT on the products I purchase for resale, or indeed for other items used in the course of my business, such as staples and toilet rolls for the staff canteen. Well, I am charged VAT by my suppliers, but I deduct it again from the VAT I charge my customers and pass the balance to the relevant government department. It works on an input output basis; i.e., I have paid, say £10,000 VAT in a particular period on goods and products purchased, and charged my customers, say £18,000 in VAT on my higher retail prices. The amount that I actually then pay to the government is therefore £8000. The government receives the same tax as they would if a sales tax had been applied, but of course, I don’t get paid for being a tax collector, unless you count my vat free toilet rolls.
Does it work differently elsewhere?
Hi Jim – As a retailer you would not pay VAT. VAT is paid by people who add value to the item, that’s why it’s a Value Added Tax. So, if you modify the item in some way that makes the value go up, you owe tax. As a retailer, you don’t modify the products, you just sell them. And you do owe VAT on the amount between what you paid and what the customer paid you.
gra sia
Well, Bob, since I am married to a wonderful Filipina, I do not hate them. At my former job back in the States with AT&T as a Marketing Support Specialist, it was a major part of my job to contact other phone companies who had shifted many call center jobs from the United States to other countries as you mention. As a strong union member, I was not always happy with the fact that many people in the United States were out of work as a result of this outsourcing and fortunately was able to retire after almost 30 years to the Philippines before our jobs got shipped overseas. But do I hate the people who took the jobs? Nah, not their fault. I blame the greedy American companies.
But as your article mentions, I cannot begin to tell you how happy I was when I got a call center agent from the Philippines on the line versus a call center agent from India. The Filipino agents were always respectful and polite and had better social and English skills than the Indian call center agents who were often rude, argumentative, and hard to understand. Am I being racist by saying this? Nope. Just stating what my experience was along with many of my co-workers who held the same opinion. Good topic today.
Thanks, Dave, I’m glad that you enjoyed today’s topic. I’m like you, of course, I am partial toward Filipino call center agents when I get such an agent on the phone. It sure is a different world from when we were growing up! Such a thing was not even possible before! Today it is commonplace.
Touchy topic today Bob! I can understand it must be very hard for an engineer in his mid fifties to be made redundant by say, GM, possibly never to work again, and to see his job effectively being done by someone overseas. What I fail to understand is that many people fail to realise that we actually live in a Global economy now; the guy who lives in a small nippa hut has less expenses and can live on lower wages. The product he makes can consequently be cheaper, and that’s the one people will buy, of course. The concept of the USA, Asia, Europe and the Middle East are now only ideas in people’s heads, but from a business perspective, those borders are meaningless, and we have to become used to and adapt to that.
Of course, this does not help our engineer who is now unemployed, but shouting “stop” after a bus which is already halfway around the next corner is not going to help. Governments need to plan better, but the people are resistant to change, and vote them out when they try to make unpopular changes. That engineer needs to take a web design course and come to work for you I think!
I agree fully, Jim. The global economy changes the game for everybody. We have to readapt ourselves to the new reality, and make ourselves useful in ways that were not even thought of before. It can be good for all, but unfortunately for some, they would rather complain that adapt. In the end, they have to adapt, the change has gone to far to return.
Bob,
You are right about a lot of the reasons for Americans being mad about the jobs. I do blame the companies for moving the jobs overseas, but I blame the US Goverment more for allowing the companies to move the jobs. I’m not mad the the people in the other countries for doing the work, it is a job and they are very happy to have it. I’m mad at the US Goverment 1st then the companies.
As for americans working in call centers. I lived in Klamath Falls, OR for 10 years and we had a call center their for about 4 to 5 years, well that was till they moved to the RP. The company was Sykes, I know that you have heard of them. Well that building was empty for about 2 to 3 years and when I left Klamath Falls, OR back in December there was a new call center in the building and had been there for about 3 years. So yes there is still a lot of call center jobs in the US of A, but most of the companies look at it and say, why should I pay a American $7.00 an hour when I can pay a Filipino $300 a month, do you blame them, I don’t. So again, I blame the US Goverment.
Well that is enough……, By the way Great read!
Don’t wish to be argumentative, but the government is elected by the people. Also, no government can change hard facts. You could, in theory, force a company to pay the US pay rates, then they will slow down and fail because a foreign company will offer a cheaper service, and those good ol voters will buy the cheaper service. It’s a bigger picture than many people think.
Hi Bill – For me, I blame American Consumers, not the companies. The consumer will do anything to save a dime, so what else can the companies do. As for the Government… it’s a free country, if GE or GM wants to move some jobs abroad, why should the Government stop them?
Hi Bill, Jim & Bob – Funny thing that comes to my mind is all of the creature comforts (autos, RVs, boats, televisions, satellite set-ups, etc., etc., etc.) that all of these newly unemployed still possess. True, there are those who have nothing, but those truly without are truly a minority in the USA.
Run away consumerism and payment via plastic is the bane of the country, and it’s paying its bills now.
🙁
True, Paul. The credit care bill is now due! A lot of people don’t know what to do.
sometimes you can see the resentment when Americans call and they demand that they talk to a real American. I heard from phone agents getting this type of calls and they route the call to their Americans supervisors who put some sense in the callers’ heads… 🙂
Bob, this is what I think (thought) . I posted something about this too earlier this year and here’s what I think–titled “Call Centers Abroad: To Vanish?”—>http://www.ilovehateamerica.com/a_filipino_immigrants_lov/2010/06/call-centers-abroad-to-vanish.html
Hi bingkee – I’ll check out your article. Thanks for sharing.
I also think that these outsourced jobs are the jobs that most Americans don’t want to take because of its stressful nature —-dealing with disgruntled clients…hehehe.
I think there is some truth in that, Bingkee.
Hi Edito – Kumusta ka? It sure would be interesting to hear some of the stories that those call center agents could tell! 🙂
A mildly funny story. Three years ago I needed to fly KLM from Manila to Mansterdan and on the Senegal in Africa. I tried to do it on the internet, but I did NOT want the lowest fare (which gave me no frequent flier miles). Finally I called KLM in Manila. The man I talked with had the same problem. so I suggested that he go downstairs and try at the reseravtions counter. Problem: he was in Sydney, Australia, KLM’s Asian call center.
Hi Don – Ha ha… I’ve heard similar stories before… it is indeed kind of funny!
Hello Bob,
We still have some call centers here in USA, I knew of one a few years ago here in Florida I use to service. They were always hiring, because of low wages, and weird hours, it was hard for them to keep people.
I really have no experience about this subject, I am sure there are people here that resent these companies going overseas, and would prefer them to stay here in the USA.
The problem I hear mostly about dealing with call centers whether it is in India, or Philippines or where ever, is that they just want what ever problem there calling about dealt with in a timely manner. I wouldn’t care who is it was, as long as my problem is solved.
Take care,
Danny H.
Hi Danny – Nice to hear from you! I hope you are doing well.
I hear from a lot of Americans that they feel the agents abroad don’t have the ability to solve the problems… and they resent that.
Hi Bob,
The Dallas Federal Reserve governor, Richard Fisher, is at this moment at CNBC.
He is being asked about this administration’s predisposition against business.
He didn’t answer directly but said about employers in his area, “They don’t feel any
incentive to hire Americans…. and it worries me”.
Hi Dr. Sponk – I suppose that if the atmosphere is against business, they probably are not disposed to hire anybody!
NEVER ! PERO DEPENDE SA TAO .HOW YOU HATE.KUNG BASTOS YAN I CAN ACCEPT IT .
Sorry Carmelita, I cannot understand Tagalog… Cebuano or English only for me.
I’ve worked in a call center and came across verbally abusive people not just white Americans but also people of Asian descent and, worst, even other Filipinos…
Looks like many countries in the west have become warehouses for Asian made goods. What can you do? In Australia if you get an Asian product made to Australian standards and specifications then you get a great product at a good price, from a consumers point of view it makes economic sense to buy that product.
The consumer has really never had it so good, they can buy virtually any imported product at an affordable price. Where as many years ago the same locally made product could cost as much as ten times the price. Now you can buy a variety of hardware goods cheaply like, electric saws, mowers, grinders, drills where as many years ago you could only afford a fraction of what you can buy now.
The problem is for the warehousing country is that it stops manufacturing goods, which results in the country hooked on imports. ie stop making glass then you have to buy it O/S which results is the loss of skills sets in certain industries. The Asians due to their cheap labour have a competitive advantage over the high wage western countries. Can’t blame the Chinese or Indians or the Philippinos it’s their time to shine.
Yet there will come a time when the Asian worker will want a greater share of the profits and a bigger share in the country’s prosperity and will demand higher wages as the cheap uneducated village side labour dries up. By then the hooked warehousing western countries better beware as the price of manufactured goods will go up! Time to look for other ways to make a living boys, that’s life.
I’d say your comment pretty well sums up the situation, Boss. What can be done, though?
I really don’t care whether the people that man call centers are Filipino, Indian, or Martian…..as long as they can make their English understandable! When I was living in the USA, nothing irritaded me more than having to call Dish Network. Their people insisted upon sticking to a word tract, whether or not it addressed my problem or not. Unplug this, do that etc. Technical knowledge wise, they were totally untrained. I have beter things to do than sit listening to elevator music for 45 minutes. When a human finally answers, they are useless. THAT is why most Americans despise call centers. It really has nothing to do with the nationality of the workers.
It’s kind of like calling PLDT’s customer service here in the Philippines. I have been trying for almost two years to get the name on our bills changed to mine, from the previous occupant’s. The last puppet I talked to yesterday told me I had to go to the billing center, bring a letter from the former occupant, and it would all cost ME three hundred pesos to get them to get the correct name on our bills! WHAT, I have to pay to make PLDT’s records correct????? Needless to say, I let the young lad know that they would be making snowballs in Hell before I would pay them three hundred pesos. Once again, common sense takes a backseat to Filippine business greed.
Perhaps Martians would do a better job of running PLDT.
Sorry for the rant…but as you can see, you picked a bad week to bring up the subject of call centers. LOL
Dave… I’m LOL here. I can totally relate to you and your situation. Elevator music and all. What you said is so true… especially with local companies. And to think I’m a Filipino. Heh.
PLDT has some inept Customer Service Reps! Was trying to inquire about DSL service, phone kept ringing and ringing and when they do answer, they want to put down the phone citing it’s 6 o clock pm and they need to go or something like that. What the….
So me? I hate them! Ha ha ha.
I also had similar situation regarding changing of billing name (cable though not PLDT). Just explain your situation (that you don’t know the previous occupant), fax or email a letter with a proof of identity. In my case, I had to tell them over and over and over that I have no contact anymore to the original account holder (my bro’s hired nanny. Er, *shrugs*) and can’t produce a letter. Let them know you’re the one paying for the bills even though it’s under a different name.
Hope that helps.
Hi..well…I hate call centers for help…for the same reason you mentioned. Most people that work at them have a sheet they read off and most have no clue what your problem is. When I have a problem with DSL I just call the phone company and tell them to by pass the call service center and send out one of their local men to check the line and etc…I can take care of the problem if its past the line box….It took me a few hours of the call center crap to get this fig. out…..No way do my comments here have anything to do hating Fillipinos or Vietnames or Indains or any body else that works for a Call Center….It has every thing to do with the Company and their poor way of doing things…If you are a E-bayer..then have fun on getting Custormer help there…You will start out with a pre programed non person machine on there “help center” Then after you try that..you will waste time getting a real phone number to a real live person and to top that off you have to have a pin number….This all takes one hell of a lot of time….I reall like buy local when can…if something wrong take it back and get a replacement or refund…Of course this is my experince here in the USA…I have not idea what it is like in the Phillipines but if from what I have read on this LIP mag…I would not do good there at all on this subject…..LOL….
Hi Dan – you are right on eBay, their customer service is terrible… I’ve dealt with them before. Call centers sure can wreak a lot of frustration!
Hi Dave – Oh, I’ve dealt PLDT myself over the years… so I understand your frustration!
SORRY MY DEAR BYE REGARDS TO ALL YOUR LOVE . GUDNITE
No, I don’t hate Filipinos for obvious reasons. I like myself.
However, Service/tech calls aside, I have a problem with the random phone solicitation. It bugs me when a telemarketer calls me.
I am on the NO CALL LIST and yet a few get through. Of course, many of the Pinoy operators have no clue what that is when I remind them. Sorry, countrymen, but cold sales calls bother me especially when they recognize that I am also Pinoy and think I am excited about this. woohoo.
Sometimes, during a 3am call, I think about asking the caller if they are in Davao. And if so, if they can wait 10 minutes while I drive to his call center and staple a NO CALL LIST printout on his forehead.
Only real way to take care of that is unhook the phone….
Or turn off the ringer!
Dan/Bob–
In my case, probably not a good idea.
Most of my clients are New York based. I keep my SF number for easy local access. Many of them don’t know I’ve been living outside the country for the past 3 years (Mexco/Philippines).
Hi Macky – That’s what the answering machine is for! 😆
Hi Macky – I have also had a few of those unsolicited calls over the years that I have lived here. Having my Vonage number opens me up to that!
The calls are fewer now. Just wanting to gripe about yet another way to bother my personal space since you brought call centers up 🙂 Don’t even get me started on door to door salesmen/religious!
By the way, telemarketers will soon have access to cell phone numbers. And you will charged with the call. Maybe something you guys might want to know.
Hi Macky – One thing for sure, though… if they start calling my Philippine cell phone, I won’t be charged for it…. since the caller pays all charges here! 😉
Bob I noticed in your article that you mentioned there is no VAT in the U.S. True but if the current administration has it’s way the VAT is just around the corner.
Bob,
This could be a reason why Outsourcing is so popular…….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt9j80Jkc_A
That dude looks total stupid to me….worthless….I would not allow him in my business let alone give him a job..Maybe that is the kind of people I talked to when had problems!
Ha ha… that’s a classic, Paul!
Hey, amigo Bob. 🙂 you could work in call centers, Bob, since you’re a native english speaker. That’s what BPO companies are looking for. I remember there was this guy who looked like he grew up in the US and he applied for a call center work wearing very casual, almost stuff that everyone wears at home, and he was hired because of his English communication skills, leaving the rest of the applicants who were “dressed to kill” wondering… 🙂
It simply comes down to dollars and sense. I have no issue with it at all. I would hire them as well. Having lived around Filipinos in both the USA and Philipines there is no doubt they are some of the best and hardest workers when trained by foreigners and among the most lazy good for nothing ignoramouses (did I spell that right LOL) when trained in the Philippines by other Filipinos. I like many others get exasperated by the lack of education and training in most stores and other venues where you are seeking answers. I know now to never ask a Filipino a yes or no question because you will always get the lazy “no” or “out of stock” answer. This is a major source of irritation to foreigners and why many get so stressed out living in the Philippines. Maybe one day everyone will take pride in their work and actually make an effort to educate and better themselves if no one else is willing.
Ha ha… sounds frustrating, Thomad!
ignore last paragraph above. forgot to delete
I just took care of it for you!
Hi Phoebe – Once somebody has been in the USA a few years, they tend to pick up the habits…
Hi Dan – I have been reading about that…. tax tax tax!
Funny thing happened to me once, when on h/p customer care phone line. Indian guy picks the phone line. He is painfully obviously reading from cue cards. Mispronounced, hillariously, two common English words. (wish I could remember those words) Problem resolution not found. Was like a third grader trying to read a fifth grade text book. I patiently explained to him the correct pronnunciation of the words. He asked me if I was an English teacher. I said no, it’s my native language…
Funny thing happened to me once, when on h/p customer care phone line. Indian guy picks the phone line. He is painfully obviously reading from cue cards. Mispronounced, hillariously, two common English words. (wish I could remember those words) Problem resolution not found. Was like a third grader trying to read a fifth grade text book. I patiently explained to him the correct pronnunciation of the words. He asked me if I was an English teacher. I said no, it’s my native language…
Hi Jade – Ha ha… I think we’ve all talked to that same guy a time or two!
Hi Edito – Ha ha… the last thing I want is a job! I don’t have enough time! 😉
Hi Bob,
I am at two minds about this, being Filipino American in Florida where there are a lot of call centers it does affect the economy here. A bad economy has made me unable to rent out my fairly affordable condo. The salaries are not much between 8 t0 10 bucks an hour but better than Walmart. The funny thing though, Spanish speaking call center agents are in demand here. Go figure. On the other side, I have cousins who are gainfully employed in Davao and Cebu as call center agents and seem to be doing well.
As a consumer though I hate call center agents no matter where they are, India, Phil, Canada, Florida, they are all a pain in the butt when it comes to answering questions and solving problems. Its not the accent, they are just not equipped or have authority to solve out of the box or script problems. To be fair, an HP agent in India was incredible compared to the Dell agent I had to deal with who was also in India. Two US based companies using employees from one country. I think its the difference and training and corporate attitude toward customer service.
I do enjoy getting calls from agents in the Philippines, I start talking tagalog or bisaya to them and resulting shock is just amazing. They tell me they are not allowed to speak tagalog. But what they hey, I ask them which center they are from, tell them they sound cute and that I’ll be in the Philippines next month maybe we can meet for coffee. Hey dont laugh, I’ve gotten a few maybes. Now if my wife will only let me go to Davao by myself.
Hi AllenO – Yes, I agree, the call centers here are very good for the local people. The economy in the Philippines, at least in Davao, seems to be booming! People are working, and all is going well. So much different from what is happening in the USA!
Hi Bob,
Mmm…call center jobs here were low end to begin with, job of last resort in the 90’s. Inbound paid better because it required a little bit more training and product knowledge. Regardless, the wages were barely minimum. Americans may think that outsourced jobs may be taking away jobs from the unemployed but I don’t think they’d want them anyway. Btw., some Canadian companies have their inbound support call centers in the US (like my gas company, one of my banks).
Almost 20 years ago, Canada was in the same position first with the Can-US free trade. We lost our manufacturing jobs to southern US states. Then with NAFTA, to Mexico. Canadians who lost their jobs felt strongly about Americans who took their jobs (and industries south of the border.)
In the end it’s all about the bottom line. Where a business can squeeze a profit, they will be there. If things get rough (profit wise), companies go to the next best place. Call centers are highly mobile, there’s no guarantee that they will have any loyalty to the Philippines. Pointless hating Filipinos for taking such cheap jobs. Worry when or if the Philippines takes whatever manufacturing or heavy industry jobs (if there is any left) from Americans. That will be the day!
Alex
You are right, Alex it is all about profit. That’s the capitalist system, though.
it goes like this..
– huhuhu. they stole my durian pie!
– do you eat durian pie?
– no, i hate them!
– then what the hell are you crying about??
Hi Dans – 😉
Interestingly, they have just greatly expanded a call center locally here in California. Jobs start at $9 an hour and up. Many, many applicants, but we are also a place with a higher-than-the-U.S.-average unemployment rate.
So here, yes, any job going abroad is a job that a local person would want. That being said, it’s hard to mad at the country where the jobs are going. These are decisions that are made in the U.S.
Hi Tom – $9 per hour is not great, but should be considered a blessing to those who are jobless. I hope that a lot of people get work there!
Bob;
Pride be damned, if my kids were hungry, I’d call Mike Rowe from the Dirty Job’s show and ask if he knew who was hiring from one of the places he’d been.
Hi Paul – I’m like you. There is no job I won’t take if I need to provide for my family. Nothing is too stinky, dirty or bad if it is what I have to do to keep my wife and kids happy, full and safe.
If you define outsourcing as contracting work with an outside company that used to be performed within the company, then I think outsourcing began in earnest during the ’80s. Prior to that, large US companies tended to directly hire virtually all segments of their business.
If you define it as offshoring, hiring labor overseas for work that had previously been done by citizens / residents in-country. I’m not sure when that started in the US, but probably began with lower-end manufacturing, and has expanded to virtually all levels of manufacturing and services. There is also a hybrid, contracting work with an outside company which happens to be located, or at least the labor pool is located, offshore.
Often times, outsourcing is many layers deep. A company may contract with another company to perform work that would normally be done in house. The contracting company may outsource some or all of that work, etc. There’s a famous Dilbert strip where their company outsourced some work and it was ultimately outsourced back to them.
Personally I blame Al Gore and the interweb (lol).
Many of the comments imply that “these call center jobs aren’t wanted by Americans”. That may or may not be true, but there are LOTS more types of jobs which are offshored. In the end, I don’t think it’s a zero-sum game, but many people will be hurting, especially those who have spent the majority of their working lives in a career or industry that is suddenly (or even gradually) offshored. On the other hand, there’s the potential that many more will benefit from the expanding global economy – that’s the theory, right?
I used to work for a large US based printer / copier manufacturer, involved with medium to higher-end printers – anywhere from 30 to 100’s of thousand USD per device. Where were those machines made? The system boards tended to be sourced from Asia, the processors either from US or a fab in Asia. Engineering, systems and applications development work in Europe, Singapore and US. Frames, covers, glass, rollers, fusers, jets, ink, trays, cables, wheels, etc. sourced from Asia, Europe, US and Latin America. Final assemblies in US, Asia, Europe and Latin America for their local markets. Support services were local. Higher level engineering support, US, Asia and Europe. Oh, I was a contractor, therefore I was an “outsourcer” 😀
Ah, you weren’t an outsourcer, Gary… you were an outsourcee! 😆
Yeah, you are right, I think that Al Gore is to blame! But, think of the reduced carbon footprint that is saved by outsourcing… keeping all of those pesky American workers off the highway to work every day!
Didn’t Marilyn Monroe say “carbon is a girl’s best friend”?
I was a an outsourcer from the point of view that a perm company employee wasn’t hired for my position. I made more money on an hourly basis as a contractor, but no company benefits. I did have benefits from my contracting company (like vacations and holidays), and Rose had good bennies from her job which I could tap into (like medical insurance), so contracting was actually a better way for me to go at the time.
Hi Gary – 😉
When I had a problem with my Internet service some time back, I called the customer service number of my provider, Smart, one of the largest Philippine communication companies. The fellow who answered the phone was pretty helpful, but I could not decipher much of what he said. So I handed the phone to my wife, thinking she could do better with the guy in Filipino? Guess what .. he didn’t know ANY Tagalog … we’re not sure if he was from India or Indonesia, but he spoke English at a sub-par level, and no Filipino language … Smart was outsourcing their own “in country” telephone calls. Go figure.
A year ago there was a news article I read from Ireland. The newspaper and the government were extremely concerned that a number of “their” call center jobs were being moved to the Philippines.
Well, when you follow the trail, the jobs were originally directory assistance operators with AT&T in the US. AT&T moved them to an Irish provider … thus exporting American jobs. By the Irish company was bought by an investor from Bahrain, who decided to move the jobs to the Philippines. So whose jobs were they in the first place? Ireland was crying like a stuck pig about the Philippines ‘stealing’ their jobs, but by some people’s rules at least, they were never Irish jobs to begin with.
And they certainly aren’t Philippine jobs either … there’s no doubt the real “owner” of the jobs will move them somewhere else if he gets a better deal.
And how many people depend upon AT&T stock in their retirement portfolios. Was the management of AT&T heroes or zeros when they saved the company millions by outsourcing the jobs in the first place? How is your 401k doing lately, by the way 😮
Folks who don’t regularly read my blog might be interested in my latest job-related post where I discuss Boeing or Airbus for the next big USAF contract … which one would supply more “American” jobs?
It is a lot more international and complex than some people … especially in the news media, where they try to reduce everything to the fourth-grade level … make things out to be.
Wow, Dave! It’s amazing to me that Smart was outsourcing calls from the Philippines! Of course, I have said many times that labor rates here are much higher than elsewhere in the region, so I guess it kind of makes sense, though. Wow, though.. surprise!
I have no problems with filipinos getting jobs that are outsourced from America. None at all. The filipinos do a really good job for the most part.
What I do have a problem with is companies getting tax breaks to send those jobs overseas…that makes NO sense at all and needs to stop. Of course the Republicans do NOT want to stop that from happening. But that is for another conversation.
The bottom line is that many Americans think they are too good to do certain jobs, while many filipinos are happy to have a job. The fact that the filipinos are getting these jobs in their country and Americans are NOT getting these jobs in America is troublesome to many.
But as long as Americans moan and groan and bitch and complain about spending five measely dollars more for certain items means it is going to be that way for a long time.
Just stop giving these companies tax breaks to ship jobs overseas…makes no sense.
I personally hope many many many more businesses locate to the Philippines and find out how great the filipino worker can be. Aquino is on the right track when it comes to aggressively pursuing business to come to the filipines.
No company gets tax breaks for sending jobs overseas. That is a misnomer. There are tax breaks for not for sending the jobs overseas, but for other reasons. Here is a Political Fact Checker that explains what the truth is.
Call centers in the U.S.
It appears there are quite a few misinformed readers posting here. Modern outsources in the U.S. usually allow employees with internet connections to work from home. When you work from home your personal costs (no commuting, work apparel and eating at home) go WAY down. In addition employers don’t have to pay for expensive office space. As a result these people are happy to work for a fraction of the wage required by most employees and their employers save a bundle.
Are there people in the U.S. willing to work these jobs for a fraction of what employees who commute to work receive? Absolutely. According to business publications, more and more companies are reverse sourcing call centers back to the U.S. I believe the peak in outsourcing has already been reached.
P.S. Whenever I get sourced to someone with an accent, I immediately request to speak with an American citizen. Working in the I.T. industry I’ve been exposed to the ugly side of outsourcing on more than one occasion.
I’m Irish, working with a large US multinational here in Dublin(Ireland). Approx 40% of our English (language) based ‘business processing’ is already based in Makati.
We’ve recently now also moving outsourced our IT department over to Muntinlupa (Alabang) which I’m actively engaged in. In 6 months we were able to move our entire helpdesk & Operations teams to the Phils & have now been’live’ for 2 months. Only thing our users noticed during the move was the helpdesk accents changed from Irish to American sounding ones. Two months in and our users are enjoying a better service than we could provide in Dublin.
Considering previous experiences we had with India, this was incredible to us!
Cost of service in Phils is probably 40-50% more than India. But the difference in quality is huge, and easily worth it at twice the price!
IMO the big loser in this is going to be India. With 25 years experience in the business, the quality of their services is still a distant 2nd to what’s they’ve been replacing in the west. With the Phils I think it’s possible to maintain the service quality and also realize dramatic costs benefits.
As far as the outsourcing debate goes, I’ve no time for lazy westerners complaining about losing their jobs. If you wanted a job for life, you should have got a job in the civil service.
If someone’s willing to do your job better\cheaper, then that person should be let do that job. Either, up you game or move onto something else. I’ve spent the previous 2 months in the Philippines. The majority of these people have nothing & would do anything to enjoy the privileges we take for granted in the west.
In any case:
Outsourcing is TRADE – both sides benefit handsomely from it.
Outsourcing jobs = importing services.
A little hypocritical of Americas to complain about importing services, when the US is by a huge margin the worlds biggest exporter of services.
10% unemployment in US is a direct result from US banks investing TRILLONS of dollars into the bottomless pit that was the US property market. Nothing to do with trading services.
Things aren’t going to improve until the bankers recoup (by fleecing their customers, cortousy of the FED) the money they blew things will return to normal. I’d guess around 2012-13 before any meaningful jobs recovery.
Hi Bob – Thanks for sharing your perspective. I agree with your statement that outsourcing is trade, and trade benefits both sides. Free trade benefits those who engage in it.
@ David S
I think that’s may be true in regard to Indian helpdesks, it’s very easy to catch there accents.
Filipino’s are different kettle of fish. They got the American twang nailed down tight. We provide some OOO support for the US helpdesk. None of these users are any the wiser.
Outsourcing is a product of the inequality of opportunities and incomes in different countries. As the carious countries get their incomes and standards of living equalized these situations will disappear. As the jobs leave the US and the US standard of living drops to be more like that of the Philippines, India, Vietnam, etc. ; the jobs will return to the US at the lower pay scale. Part of the correction mechanism is that the US dollar is declining in value compared to the other currencies in the world, and someday when it gets low enough the clothing, electronics, call centers etc. industries will start balancing out between the countries. It will take a lot of time, and there will be short-term winners and loosers, as there always are. Just try and not hate people over it in the meantime.
Hi Larry – I do not believe that it is even close to possible that countries like the Philippines or India could get their incomes equalized with the First World countries within our lifetimes.
Actually Bob you are wrong. Our tax code DOES give tax breaks to companies for shipping jobs overseas. It is not right and it should stop. When American companies create jobs overseas, which call centers in the Philippines are, they get certain tax breaks.
It needs to STOP and STOP now! Republicans like to play with words and say “well the companies are not directly getting tax breaks for shipping jobs overseas” the whole time KNOWING that when an American company CREATES jobs overseas they get tax benefits.
It is the same thing. Shame on them.
Of course the Republicans are the same group holding up tax cuts for anyone making $250,000 or less because they want permanent tax cuts for EVERYONE! Well come on now! We do not need to give tax cuts to people making over $250,000 a year….it does NOT help the economy and puts us further into debt.
We should NEVER give tax breaks to companies to ship jobs overseas. If they want to ship those jobs overseas they should be able to….but they should not receive tax breaks to do so and right now THEY DO.
Todd – I provided a link to a non-partisan group that tells what the truth is. If you choose not to believe it, that is your problem, not mine.
A country tends to prosper more when: it encourages competition and free trade, business is allowed to thrive or fail on its own, corruption is minimal, and interference from governments (including taxes) is held at a minimum.
Countries that have not done well over the past century can look to their own internal policies noted above for most if not all of their troubles.
Hi David – perhaps that is why the US is currently doing so poorly. “businesses allowed to thrive or fail on its own” is certainly not being followed. The government bails out all the big wigs!
Re; Filippino employees “constantly asking for extra days off for leave and such”, in addition he shuda said for fiestas, funerals, hangovers, out of town visitors, my wife has to go to the doctor, no baby sitter, go pay water bill, and every thing else imaginable ——don’t show up on time, or at ALL! Americans—They don’t ask for loans against future pay. And they have some pride in their work.
No, I Don’t hate Filippinos for working at call centers, or any job that is offered to them. But I’m sure not fond of their “culture” (read bad Habits) of, lying, cheating, swindling, stealing, “borrowing” and too many other bad behaviors to mention here. Yes, these things happen in the states also— But not to the depth or scale as here. It’s like 90/10 and vs versa.
im a pure filipino and im working abroad also ,,,,,usually it hapens that when you talk about PHILIPPINES mostly they dont like it,,,,,its maybe because we FILIPINOS can speak ENGLISH weell ,,,,,than them thats the one source i see from them,,,,and if they hate Philppines we dont care for it and if they dont like our country then well very good then WHY?BECAUSE they just go in our country to scattered things unethical there(i mean there rubbish then)………….no.2 i see is they are insecure with us FILIPINOS WHY?because if we got the job and our boss give us the insructions of our job we can learn it easily than those other nationalities,,,,,,,,(no need to mention wat kind of people they are)……..no.3 is we know how to use our common sense ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so thats it wat is say at this time,,,,so those people who hated FILIPINOS OR THE PHILIPPINES just go visit first our country and judge,,,,,b4 you talk about us,,,,,,
Good points sonny… thanks for sharing.
Tsk tsk Sonny, it was going great ’til you showed them your grammar. lol.
Anyway, to answer your question Bob, I’m happy to see that Filipinos are getting entry-level jobs at a fair rate (as compared to non-BPOs). I’ve spent almost 8 years working in call centers, and I’ve always found it funny whenever I get callers from the U.S. who were trying to get on my nerves just so the company realizes Filipinos can’t handle Americans under stress.
But, somehow it angers me to know that Filipino doctors and nurses have been leaving the Philippines to get jobs in the U.S.. If Americans are outraged because of outsourcing, I may very well be just as upset when MDs go to U.S. for greener pasture, when there are many parts in the Philippines where people have never even experienced getting medical aid.
Goes to show Americans can’t blame Filipinos in general for the outsourced jobs, just as Americans can’t be blamed for our lack of doctors here.
We can learn how to hate ourselves, that’s what makes us human. I never wanted to go back home, ever. I do hate Filipinos, not all, but some. There can be Filipino Muslims, Chinese Filipinos, Filipinos who are poor and Filipinos who are greedy. I admit that I love being a Filipino, but I always think about the ways we were living before and think about the ways we are now in the US. It’s okay to hate ourselves and love ourselves because it’s what we humans should face the truth. It’s life. Just as it is okay to be feel sad. Still, you can’t commit suicide like the Japanese, that’s sheer stupidity. Keep in mind, not everyone is equal wherever we go.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, John. Interesting.
I as an American hate outsourcing, and all foreigners. If I call some number and some rodrnt with a foreign accent answers, I immediatly ask to be transferred to an American…if they do not comply (which is very rare) I close my account and do business elsewhere. Usually they do comply, and I explain to the American that I’m transferred to that I did this to help save their job, they are very thankful. If even 10% of Americans did this simple thing that I did, imagine the difference we could make! I applaud companies like Discover Card who only use American call centers and identify which one when they answer (Utah, Arizona, etc.). I’m proud to do business with them
Classy, Jack! Xenophobic too. BTW, what do you do if the person at the American call center has a foreign accent?
About as xenophobic as some of the policies regarding the rights of foreigners eh Bob?
Oh and why is my comment always awaiting moderation while everybody else gets a free pass?
Because I am the owner of the site, Chris, and I get to decide. You have shown a very negative attitude in the past, so as long as what you post is not vulgar or demeaning to others, it will be approved. But, given some of what you have posted in the past, I feel the need to check your comments before they are posted to the site. It’s that simple. If you played nice with others, this would not be the case.
I am happy with the rights I am afforded in the Philippines, Chris. If I was not, I would not choose to live here.
I dislike them…i refuse to do businesss with any American company that hires these foreign clowns, instead of Americans
Hi jack – That sounds like a pretty racist and closed minded policy that you have there.
I’m certain they are absolutely heartbroken over the loss of your lucrative business. Just how will they manage to survive without it?
One things for sure; filipinos can not survive without foreign influece whether they acknowledge it or not. Just where do you think 10 percent of Filipinos are at any one time? It’s most certainly not on PI shores where they earn their break. Filipinos are afforded a lot of goodwill by foreigner, especially westerners. It’s just a shame and highly hypocritican that the same goodwill is not reciprocated back to foreigners in the Philippines. You all know what i’m talking about.
Well, the Philippines has been around for a long, long time Chris, and they made it without foreigners. I think they can make it without you or I.
Something really bad must have happened to you in the Philippines, Chris, because you really have a terrible attitude about the place. I don’t understand why a hater of the Philippines would have any interest to visit this site.
Actually here is some reasons why there maybe jobs unfilled in USA like call centers. First the location, it might be that the location of those call centers are not in the place of the professionals, or people who actually can perform a job speaking politely and have longer patience. MAybe the population in that area is looking for a job like labor jobs as like the type of factories, or constructions and jobs in the office where it is a flexible job. Some people don’t want to work sitting for several hours and just talking to a bunch of people and have a quota for it. It may also be possible those population of jobless in those areas are not into call center type of work, and the ones who can perform call center work is actually in the other part of the USA, but the company wouldn’t want to move or recruit from those places since it’s costly. So moving it in Philippines will be cheaper. Working in call center requires patience, and you gotta suck up all negative things that the customers will give you. Plus sitting on a chair for a very long time talking to so many kinds of people is just too boring for some americans. But there are some places that can do that job in USA it’s just that the company will not really spend that much on recruitment and pay for their relocations.
Hi, I work at a call center in the Philippines, and it usually breaks my heart when a person (whether american or not) gives out racist slurs or cusses on the phone just cause I am a Filipino.
Well, I get the point on as to why some people hates us off-shore people, (not so sure if I got the off-shore thingy correctly, is it one word?) I mean we have the accent, some say that we are taking away their jobs or what not, but the hard thing to swallow is the fact that none of these were our fault, (well the accent one can be improved, so it;s partially our fault) not our fault to the point that we only took the job that was offered to us.
Now don’t get me wrong, I ain’t demanding to be treated as a saint whenever you call us, but maybe treat us as a human being who has someone to feed. If you want an american associate, fine, “ask nicely” and it will be given. And BTW, an american associate may give you the exact same resolution that we are giving out.
Oh and believe me, most of our apologies comes directly from the hear, yeah we have different cultures, but we are also humans who does most of the things that you are calling for. I admit into sometimes saying sorry too much, simply because I want to help you but the company that I’m working with would not let me do so (yes I’m looking at SEARS). The hold the we place you in when you call us is when we do the desperate calls to our supports and supervisors to give you something for your issue (maybe a gift card or a credit). We genuinely care about our calls and even carry the stress when we know that not enough was done to make you happy. How do I tell? Cause I once work as a supervisor for SEARS (probably the company with the worst customer service ever). Every time I speak with someone who is without a fridge who is in need of medication but does not have an appointment breaks my heart, cause deep inside I know that the company that I’m working with would not do anything about them, and I bring that burden even after my shift ends.
So the next time you make a call, PLEASE give the other person at least 3 mins of your time before throwing your slurs. BELIEVE me, we would if we could help you.