Being married to a Filipina, you should know that marrying a Filipina means marrying the whole family. That is just how it goes in the Philippines. You are expected to help out financially when the need arises. I have been lucky over the years that such a need has been rare, but we have helped out from time to time.
Although many foreigners believe that it is just a way to extract money from the foreigner, the truth is that this system applies to all people in the family – foreigner or Filipino. Those who have more means are expected to help out those who have little. It is just the way the system works.
Recently, I got a voicmail from Ed. Ed’s wife is from Cebu, and Ed and his wife visit just about every year. When he is not around, their nephew and his family help look after Ed’s house and car in Cebu. Ed sends money to help out the nephew, but he is also unsure of just how much he should be sending. Because of this, Ed thought he would ask me.
Well, honestly, every situation is different, and I can’t say for sure how much would be perfect, but I do try to offer Ed some practical tips on how to address the situation and be able to make a decision on what amount is correct. Hopefully this will be useful to Ed.
Listen to the podcast and hear what I had to say to Ed. If you have other tips for Ed, or for anybody reading, please share your thoughts in the comments below this article/podcast.
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Thanks again for listening, everybody!
Very true, as a result I have gained a Great family that truly cares about me. They don’t think I am just an ATM machine.
Same here, Carl! I see nothing wrong with the practice of helping the family, in fact I think it is the right thing to do. Of course it should not be abused, though.
Good advice Bob Martin. Be firm but fair.
Thanks, Warren Stephen. So true!
And I agree 100%
Thanks for sharing that, Wayne.
Ha ha… there is a lot of truth in that, Anton Faust! It does take some getting used to.
That sounds reasonable, Anton.
My wife and i had to learn not to send any money. Instead, if someone was in a pinch, we would pay a bill directly for a family member. meaning hospitals, or pharmacy, etc. We also have put 3 different family members through school. If you send money, the temptation for it to get spent on other than necessities is too high.
Very true, Jacob.
Further, the sooner you wife totally understands that you’re not “Banko Central”, the sooner she’ll tell family that there’s a limit to how much help can be provided, it’s NOT infinite. The sooner she makes that clear and that there’s lots of work for pay available from us so that they can lift themselves up, the sooner that can start to happen, especially for them.
I think, Jacob, if you have experienced issues where funds were misused, that makes a great deal of sense.
We definitely did. This way, we help, and all parties are satisfied.
That’s true, Jacob.. and the bills are satisfied too! 🙂
Bob: I always hated that “walking ATM” term. To hear some people here talk, it kind of makes you wonder why they bother getting married in the first place. I always look at it as just a part of being married (Whether here or in the USA). Rebecca is 1000% better money manager than me, and I let her deal with these types of issues.Since I trust her completely, this has never been an issue.
Hi John – Yeah, I have always been uncomfortable with the “walking ATM” phrase myself. In truth, my in-laws have never really been a burden, and have only made requests when it was truly needed. I can’t complain.
Bob: You know, it is kind of like this… Becky’s family completely accepted me. I love my mother-in-law. I respect her. She has never taken advantage of me a single time. She would not dream of asking for something unless she really needed it. In fact, WE need to pester her, over and over, in order to get her to tell us what she really needs (For instance, she suffered with a broken wrist for three weeks until we finally wormed it out of her… She was embarrassed to ask for doctor money. She did not tell Rebecca until “I” got on the phone and told her that she had no reason to be embarrassed and that families help each other out. Made her cry). As far as I am concerned, if she wants something, and we have the money, it is hers.
Great story John, and it really shows the typical old time Filipino value and attitude.
John, there aren’t many foreigners where we live now, but I did have one American friend here recently. We had many talks about all this over the year he was here. He went abroad a few months ago to earn money and unexpectedly died before he could get back home here. I heard his widow got a substantial insurance payout and now has a new car (with monthly payments), lots of new jewelry, etc. She’s also “in business”. I wonder how long that will last.
She txt’d my wife asking her to buy lots of over-priced stuff. My wife replied that right now hollow-block, cement and sand for a small house “sataas ng bukid malapit atin area doon” and fertilizer are somewhat more important. Finally, my wife is learning slowly but surely.
I’m a different “Ed” than the one Bob refers to, but Bob is very right in his opening comments on his posting.
It’s especially more true if you have a young wife, one young enough to be ambitious enough to get you.
She’ll want to do whatever she can to build a future, but beware that her family will always be pestering her and every time someone has an emergency or accident, it’s YOU that needs to pay up. Yet another brother-in-law has his kid in the private hospital – now you must show up yet again to pay yet another bill that wasn’t in your budget. That fast adds up to millions. No matter what your life’s savings _were_ they will be exhausted and then it’s only what you (as an official “senior”) can earn each week, which isn’t enough when constant demands on you _daily_ equal what you maybe earn _monthly_. Never mind that you again paid out 120,000 pesos on Monday, come Wed you’re asked for another “small” 15k. That’s just *this* week. Repeat each week. Eventually even she will realize this is a problem, but only after your money is gone and you’re way in debt. On that note, keep her away from pawnshops and loan-sharks too, which can amount to 1000% (that’s *thousand*) percent interest. Not to mention that you’ll need more money to pay attorneys and perhaps other people to make the gangsters disappear.
It’s all fine and good that everyone owes her, “millions” coming back in income “bukas” but never “ngyon”, parents are building a new house while you pay big rent because _you_ can no longer afford to build a house. You’re told for years that your money will “be coming back ‘next week'” but you still need to pay the rent and electricity, feed your 5 kids, her, her katulong and everyone around daily and that’s today in cash.
Your wife won’t take your advice and lifetime experience, she will insist on making all the same mistakes on her own – with YOUR money, your retirement capital, then everything you can still earn. Pinoy math says a 5% profit (if people pay up), after her losing 80% of your capital, is good. Yup, you take that to the bank and see how they entertain you.
Be careful, because when you run out of capacity, all those people you paid for can’t help you when you need it most, because they HAVE NO MONEY. You may have paid out millions for them, but when you fall down, you have no money for a doctor or an xray let alone anything else. No matter the size of “puso mo”, don’t let them push you into that final corner, because they don’t have money to decently bury you either.
Hi Ed – Thanks for sharing your comment.
In our case, Feyma and I are close to the same age – 6 years apart – that age difference is not an issue at all. When it comes to money, we have gone through times of plenty, and also plenty of lean times. We have always worked it out, and financially we have always worked together for our – OUR – self interest. It has been a true partnership in that case, not her looking out for herself and me for myself.
Happy to know that Bob, your good life partnership is evident and you’re one lucky man.
I’m not suggesting that my wife is in it for herself. I know she’s doing her best to build a future for us. What I am saying that when a wife is half your age (even if you’ve been with her for years now and have lots of kids together), she still has a lot to learn, so anyone in that situation needs to be sure her learning curve doesn’t kill you in the interim.
Not trying to be mean or disrespectful, Ed, but I tend to disagree about being “lucky”. I am a true believer in the famous quote from Thomas Jefferson:
“I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.”
I believe that a good relationship requires hard work by both parties. Feyma and I, over the years, have done that hard work. As the saying says.. the harder we have worked, the luckier we have been! 🙂
Bob, I suppose I should have written that it’s easier in your cse when your wife already knows most of what you’ve learned in life and doesn’t need to go through the learning curve. Saves a lot of expense and suffering while the wife learns the hard way. That’s what I meant by my comment that you’re lucky that way.
Hi Ed – I am not sure I understand why you say my wife “knows what I know in life”. When we got married, my wife was very naive, and she will be the first to tell you that. She did have to go through a learning curve after we married and she moved to the states. Then, I went through a learning curve when we moved here.
Bob, you mentioned that your wife is almost the same age as you. That means that she surely learned a lot in life before she met you, providing a solid foundation for her to learn more and the two of you to work together exactly as you wrote. That Feyma was abroad helps too. All that goes with my comment of you being “lucky”, because getting a young wife who’s never been abroad up to that level without an intervening 3 decades of life is much harder, just to get to the point you and Feyma were fortunate to _start_ at.
That my wife has learned so much in our 8 years is amazing and I give her immense credit for the intelligence to do so, but it has been expensive. She’s up in the mountains right now coordinating construction of a replacement small concrete house up there, taking care of maintenance and fertilization of our various plantations there, managing her jeepnie biz, handling her ongoing various community “financing” arrangements up there, etc etc. Not bad for a 32-year old who’s 8 months pregnant with our 5th child.
Why do I post all this here? To help anyone who might find themselves in a similar situation. Love and trust are all fine and good, but I was somewhat naive myself not to expect the need and expense of her learning curve. I’m just lucky myself that she’s up to it, and we’re together paying the price of compressing an extra 3 decades life-experience into someone who’s after 8 years now barely in her early 30’s. Anyone finding themselves in a similar situation might want to consider that and choose very wisely, or they might not be so “lucky”.
All that as I took a minute out to give 2 of our kids a hug and kiss. That’s priceless to me.
I think you are misinterpreting our marriage. Before we were married, Feyma had never been abroad or anywhere outside the Philippines. We were married in the Philippines and I sponsored her for a visa to come to the USA.
Before our marriage, Feyma simply had never been exposed to many life experiences.
When I married my Filipino wife I gained a Mother and a Father in the package. Same as in the States. I love them both dearly as my parents are both dead. My wife has 7 other siblings which I have helped at least once. I moved Mama and Papa into my home years ago. I told the other brother and sisters, I am taking care of your parents and that is my responsibility and a burden lifted off of you. Do not ask me for anymore help. Things have worked out great. Many Ex-pats come over here to find a young girl to marry not even caring about the girl’s family. Most of these type marriages do not last long. Your married, her family is your family and your family is her family. Case closed.
There you go, Budrick. Well said.
I have shared some of my families dynamics, and I couldn’t be more happy with our relationship when It comes down to money. The family don’t bother us, unless it is really important.
I have no problems supporting my family especially when it makes my life easier, I pay for my family’s internet in the Philippines. Because it means that my daughter every day can talk to her LOLO, LOLA, and her Auntie Ivy that is more like a sister to her. That is so valuable to me, my daughter knows more about her family in Cebu then her family 15 blocks away. Though she loves both families.
And I always feel that the money is always being used for what I wanted it to be used for and not misspent.
Bob I think many looks as someone, or a couple and think that they can make certain assumptions. Like it must have been easier for them, because of this or that. And not realize or acknowledge that they as a couple had to work hard to get where they are at.
I think making general assumptions about anything isn’t very productive.
We have a group of friends, who are American-Philippine couples, here in the States who get together now and then. Had one of the husband friends tell me let go get something. I don’t remember what it was, but we went to the store or something in his business vehicle.
While we were on the way to the store he told me about all the money he spends on his wife, and her family in the Philippines every month. And asked me why would I ever want to live there? He told me about all the money he has to send there to buy more and more land. How his phone bill is $700 a month. And he wanted me to look at the stubs in the large, business check book. I declined to look at it and just thought that he needed someone to talk to. And I had no problem. His average spending for his wife was $5000-$8000 month.
She was already in this country when they met, and she is closer to his age than myself and my wife. And she was from a more prominent Philippine family then my wife. So I guess making assumptions don’t work much. Every story is different.
Then he said something that I thought was insulting. He said that I did right by the way I TRAINED my wife. I was like wow!! This is from someone up until 5 minutes ago I thought he had it made. Maybe I might have asked him for some advice on relationships 5 minutes ago.
Then I said well I don’t know if I would call it training. She knows that when the money runs out, the money runs out. And I guess you have a lot more money to run out of. Trying to lighten the mood. Then I told him that I know it is hard to go back after something or someone is accustomed to a certain level of living standards. He said he can’t stop this spending or his wife would leave him.
At that Moment I was glad that I was living my simple life. In my small world in my small house with my loving family.
Hi James – Nice comment full of information! I agree, making assumptions is never the right way to go. No marriage is easy, it takes work to be successful.
Quite amazing, the guy spending $5k to $8k per month! That’s almost unbelievable (I do believe you though).
Well I think some of that money is buying or paying off land, but when he said he will never live in the Philippines. I was like then why? Course he is a farmer here so maybe he has a thing about buying land. But I think that his wife is more of that motivation.
What ever works for you I guess.
Yes, James, hard to understand why somebody who never wants to live in the Philippines would keep buying land in the Philippines! 🙂
Bob, though it’s posted thousands of times already by everyone, let’s clear it up in this thread. A foreigner may purchase a *condominum* (which by definition is NOT “land”, hence that exclusion). A foreigner may be part of a corporation (expensive to create and maintain in all facets starting with attorneys and then keeping BIR happy at minimal quarterly), and then only up to 40% holding, specifically intended to ensure control lies with Philippine citizens which he will never be (based on what he wrote). Sum it up, a foreigner can *pay* for land in the Philippines but can NEVER own it or effectively control it. That he’s abroad suggests even less influence on actual zero “ownership” and effective disposition beyond his control without recompense. It can easily be sold out from under him at any time and he has exactly ZERO recourse. Period.
Something I haven’t seen mention of in this forum is the distinction between “clear title” and “stewardship”. This discussion is about “land”, yes? Be aware that most agricultural land “in the province” does NOT provide clear-title; what’s actually being purchased is “stewardship”, which is the right of the “purchaser” (not the payor) to occupy and utilize the land for a 30-year period. That’s just a document at the local baranguay office. You canNOT take that to the bank! (Go ahead and try, been there done that, learned!) After an aggregate of 30 years the current “steward” may get it surveyed and problematically apply for actual title. depending on precise jurisdication and again a long expensive legal process without any guarantee of success. I’ll know more about that some years after we have budget to start that exact sequence sometime soon on one of my wife’s areas. Until then, “title” is a theory and you do NOT have one.
Thanks for clearing that up for me. But I don’t think anyone, or at least I don’t think I said anything about owning land in the Philippines. You can buy or pay for anything, and not own it.
I paid for and bought a lot, but don’t mean I own it. And I wouldn’t put much on that lot myself. If and when I do something on that lot I plan to be a small modest house(nothing to brag about). Just like Grand-Fathers House at the river. You know that place most families used to have. The place they would go some week-ends?
And not owning the lot don’t bother me at all. As long as there are more days in the month that my wife likes me being around then not. I guess I am going to be fine.
Even when you can own something it maybe not yours. I bought a truck, paid for it and titled it, but I haven’t seen it in my drive way in awhile. My son drives it. I even call it my son’s truck.
But I still think that renting is the best way for a home in the Philippines.
Hi Bob,
I just wanted to say I think you gave excellent advice to Ed in the podcast! I also liked the responses to the comments. When I married my wife there was no more hers and mine. What little we have is ours.
Thanks, Jay, I appreciate that!
i met my girl we talked a set the amount of help ,like for mom monthy we set price before we started dating ,this way was good for us
Glad it worked out for you, Bryon. It sounds like a reasonable plan!
Did this a lil different. Got married 6 years ago and have not sent a dime in 3 years. instead of sending cash monthly which is hard for me to accept in my poor “atlas shrugged ” mind. I noticed that all the sibilings had some skills and desire. so I helped them start business or helped with school. they are now all self sufficient and need us for nothing more than being family. Since my wife is the oldest and her father passed a long time ago she was the main income for the family as a teacher. that job is over. her one sister and three brothers now help out mama. It has worked out and everyone told me it wouldn’t. But I believe in the power of want and desire and the need in the human soul to work to produce and feel like you have accomplished something. it worked for us. not sayin it would work for everyone.
Congratulations. Bubba. What you describe is a huge accomplishment.
Good for you Bubba
yes it is good to talk and plan ,,before ,,if want till later in relationship could hurt a relations.
I was told when I arrived here 20 odd years ago I should be living at least two islands away from my partners family, I haven’t resorted to that yet but I know some guys who do. Not all Filipinos see the new family member as an ATM but to be honest a lot do.
You have to set the bar early in the relationship as I did. I respect my partners family and have sorted the ones I want to associate with and the ones I don’t. We have a nice comfortable relationship with family getting together’s once or twice a year. My partner and I have respect for each other and are both flexible on certain issues but when push comes to shove she is with me 100%.I consider myself fortunate..The myth of marry the girl you marry the family is total rubbish and only happens if one allows it to happen.Too many foreigners come here and grab the first girl who winks at them..Big mistake. Often these girls are very young and come from poor families and course they would like to take advantage of the old guy,after all he is getting what he wants,do you really blame them? Most of these girls would prefer to date a Filipino boy but often opt for the foreigner for security.These girls can sense weakness in a man and will often take full advantage of the situation.
Hi Jack – Living here for 20 years is a great accomplishment. I have been here 15, so you’ve got me by 5! 🙂
Well said Jack, you nailed it 🙂
Hi Bob,
Interesting Podcast.
I think when it comes to money/allowances etc, it is important to be realistic.
As a benchmark, a Public School Teacher earns around P17k a month, and a Call Centre Operator (night shifts) working for a decent company in say Davao City earns around P15k per month. Both require a Uni Degree.
Thanks, Chasrand. Nice to hear from you.
Hi Bob
Good podcast Bob, I don’t have a filipina wife, so not so much a problem for me having family ask for money.
You said “before you come along they survived”. This is a very important point for people to remember.
Recently my brothers wife gave birth and throughout the pregnancy process the total cost amounted to circa $4500.
Knowing this is like 2 years wage just to give birth and that is just simply unobtainable for most filipinos, I said to a friend who lives in the poorest area of Dumaguete “How do people give birth in his area and how much”. He replied that they visit the Government funded birthing suite which looks nice and costs 500php.
Essentially people just want better if they can have it. $4500 for the best with everything versus $12 bare basic. A stark contrast between the two realities.
Hi Brenton – Glad that you liked the podcast. You sure are right, big difference between $12 and $4500! And, you are further correct that they are both reality!
The birthing cost at a private hospital typically runs close to PHP30k, presuming zero :”complications” or excessive delays and a normal “natural” delivery. We’re not talking “Makati Med” or “Asian Hospital” in Alabang here, just a regular decent private hospital. I should know, having paid that 4 times with the 5th coming next month, and that’s just for *my* kids. As a foreigner one is quite reasonably *expected* to shoulder that cost. PhilHealth, presuming you are paid-up for one full year prior, will reduce that somewhat, so now that I finally have that fully in order my effective bill for baby #5 might be about half. Of course then the real expenses start _after_ birth.
Note about PhilHealth, it doesn’t cover everything, you will still be paying some large chunk yourself, but it’s definately a bargain, so anyone staying permanently in Phils is well advised to set that up as a priority. There is no issue about getting PhilHealth coverage if you have an “immigrant” visa of some sort. It covers (within limitations) you, your wife, and your legitimate kids. It however does NOT cover your wife’s parents, siblings, and hundreds of relatives. There are other ways to deal with their critical emergency health costs, see my prior postings on such.
There are also tons of private medical insurance offerings, but those get very expensive very fast on an ongoing basis.
Hi Ed
The cost is not just the birth and they had Philhealth but only for a few months, so not much good to them. It was the whole process.
The birth was meant to be $1000 but not far into labour the doctor wanted to cut so that quickly escalated to $2200. Then before and after the birth they were smashing the mother and baby with every drug and injection you can imagine.
Even the other day my brother visited the doctor and walked out another $150 out of pocket. The doctors only charge 300php to 500php for each visit so the drugs and injections are still going strong.
Apparently the birth went smoothly before and after. Australian doctors seem one tenth as drug and injection happy as doctors in the Philippines. It’s my brothers money, so all good. Lol.
“Before you come along they survived.” Here is my counterargument to that quote that you see a lot on many different Phl boards regarding provinding financial support to people in the Phl. (I guess it depends on what is meant by “survive”.)
1) When I was working under an ex-pat contract I lived in Ayala Westgrove Heights. It is a Filipino community for the wealthy. After my contract was finished I lived for 2 years in the house that we had built for my father-in-law in Tuao, Cagayan. It’s a rural community. Mostly farmers. Most of the children in Tuao were clearly undersized for their age compared to the children I saw that lived in Ayala Westgrove Heights. The same can be seen in many other places. On a 6 hour drive from Tuguegarao City, Cagayan to Santiago City, Isabela everywhere you stop is similar; most of the children are undersized for their age. This is due to malnutrition.
2) One of my best friend’s housekeeper’s daughter got pregnant. She couldn’t afford to go to the doctor so no prenatal care. The baby was born in the CR at home. 3 days after birth the baby died.
3) The son of our next door neighbor in Tuao had a brain disease that is usually curable. Even though he was having regular headaches he wouldn’t go to the doctor because he didn’t have the money (and I think did not ask his mother for money). Finally the pain got so bad he went to the doctor but it was too late. He died of that disease.
4) A realtive of my wife got in a motorcycle accident. 4 car pile up on the Buntun Bridge. He unluckily happened to be in the middle of it. His leg was crushed by two of the colliding cars and his bike. At the hospital his mother was told that it was going to take multiple surgeries to save his leg. She told them that she didn’t have enough money to pay for even the first surgery. They amputated his leg.
Absolutely, bad things happen in life, I never said otherwise. And, when the kinds of things happen like you describe, I believe that a person should help if they can. I know I always have helped in this type of situation. But, suzukig, that was not the situation which was described in the podcast. He never said anything about people being sick or dying. He was talking about normal day to day living expenses. He was even talking about fixing the car and such. If the car is broken and the extended family must use the jeepney, that won’t kill anybody. So, I believe we are talking about two completely different situations.
Hi Suzikig
It is my opinion that the ultimate responsibility of situations you describe are the responsibility of a Government to its citizens.
Like many foreigners I will help where I can because I like the Philippines and its people. Governments globally even give considerably to the Philippines and its people but severe poverty is still a serious widespread problem here.
I wrote an article “Poverty a harsh reality in the Philippines”. The article is below. 40% of people where I live are in severe poverty. That’s a lot of people!
http://liveinthephilippines.com/poverty-a-harsh-reality-in-the-philippines/
It is not the foreigners responsibility to financially support the Philippines and its people, there is so much poverty in the Philippines that our money wouldn’t be sufficient.
We can play our part but good governance will do more than we can.
Hi Bob,
My wife never asked for a centavo when we were pen-pals. She also never gave the impression that she was desperate to get out of poverty or interested in finding someone to take care of her whole family. If she had we would have never gotten together. She has no such expectation now either. I know a guy who almost immediately started sending money. I don’t get what some people are thinking.
She did ask questions of me: Like do you smoke, drink, etc. She was trying to figure out if I was someone she was interested in having a life with. We help her mom and we have helped some of the other family members and yes we have been taken advantage of a couple of times. We don’t get too upset, but we don’t send more money to them. Our first obligation is to our children.
Hi Jay – I believe you are doing the right thing by helping her mom. Once you marry, you are part of the family, and that comes with responsibilities. But, like you say, to start sending money while just friends… well, that is crazy!