I’ve written a lot on this subject in the past, and I have to admit my carefully chosen title for this article is probably “wishful” thinking”.
My guess is there will never be an end to this story … I just wish there was.
Philippine Unique.
The Philippines is unique with regard to almost all the known countries of the world .. that is, they do not allow divorce.
(Ed Note; Except for certain specific cases involving members of the Islamic Faith, which we will not get into here. be very careful about charlatans and other unsound legal and religious advice in the practice and application of Shari’a Law in the Philippines, please. Also, please remember I am not a lawyer and this is NOT legal advice, personal opinion only)
Now Back on Track.
There is no divorce in the Philippines. Read and repeat until you believe it. Why? because it’s true.
There is, however divorce in all the other countries of the world, except The Vatican City.
The government of the Philippines recognizes legal divorces obtained from other jurisdictions, with one very specific exception.
The Philippines recognizes divorces filed by and granted to foreign nationals only. Nut it does NOT recognize divorces granted to applicants who are citizens of the Philippines.
Sounds a Bit Crazy?
Yes, in my opinion it does. Here’s why.
John (let’s say he is a US citizen) marries Mary, a citizen of the Philippines.
Immediately John and Mary are legally married under the laws of both countries. No real question at all.
Now let’s say John files for a divorce from Mary and a court grants the divorce – it has to be a non-Philippines court by the way since there is no divorce in the Philippines, remember?
So far as the USA or any other country INCUDING the Philippines, John is now legally divorced and free to marry … in any country.
But Mary? Well she really doesn’t have the same rights as John. No matter where she lives and who granted the divorce, Mary is STILL legally married according to Philippine Law.
Does this make you head hurt?
Don’t worry, it makes mine hurt too. How can Mary be legally divorced in one country and yet still legally married in the Philippines? Don’t ask me, really, that’s the way it is.
Does Mary have any recourse?
Yes, if John filed for the divorce, Mary can file a case with the Philippines courts to recognize the foreigner-obtained divorce. If her case succeeds, she can then be legally free to marry anyone else, foreigner or Filipino who is also legally free to marry.
But Here’s What Often Happens:
A person trapped under this slightly strange law may just decide to forget about the first marriage … especially if the first spouse doesn’t seem to care. It’s just hard, and time consuming and expensive to try to comply with the strange martial laws here. It’s so much easier to just ignore the first marriage. But it can be a really bad mistake.
(Much more about this issue here: Can I Get Married Even If I Am Already Married?)
After all, if a couple goes and files for a marriage license, and it’s granted, there must be no problem, right?
Not Really.
Here’s what happened just recently as reported to me direct from the Philippine Bureau of Immigration files:
Don’t be polygamous, BI warns aliens
The Bureau of Immigration (BI) warned foreigners against practicing polygamy, or they will be expelled and banned from re-entering the Philippines.
BI Commissioner Ricardo David Jr. issued the warning after immigration officers at the Ninoy Aquino International Airport (NAIA) arrested a Chinese woman who was blacklisted by the BI for marrying a male compatriot (another foreigner) who is previously married to a Filipina.
Ana Shi Wu, 28, was barred from boarding her China Southern Airlines flight to Xiamen, China and was instead brought to the BI jail in Bicutan, Taguig.
(She wasn’t even allowed to run away from the situation)
David said the woman will undergo deportation proceedings as she had been illegally staying in the country since the BI revoked her permanent resident visa last April 25.
“Let this serve as a warning to other foreigners. You lose the privilege to stay in the country if you enter into bigamous marriage,(my emphasis)” the BI chief said.
He explained that the Philippine immigration act does not only discourage polygamy, but also prohibits the entry of aliens who practice or advocates it. It was learned that Wu and her Chinese husband Lin Hua Bin became permanent residents here after they applied for the BI’s alien social integration program in 1996.
Their visas, however, were canceled after a complaint for undesirability was filed against the couple by Lin’s estranged Filipina wife whom he had married prior to living with his Chinese wife. Investigation later revealed that Lin had entered into civil marriages with the two women, thus proving the charge that he committed bigamy. (Again, my emphasis. Remember that expression regarding Hell having no fury as a woman scorned? Works with scorned men, too)
….
Bottom Line.
To legally be married in the Philippines, both parties must be free to marry at the beginning. The fact that one party was married to a Philippine citizen and then chose to marry another caused a really big problem. Jail and deportation on a charge of “undesirability”. Not something I would want on my record.
Trust Me, both parties should be free to marry, even if you think the law won’t find out .. all it takes is for the first spouse to get pissed and make a complaint. My advice, stay legal.
Hi Dave,
I’m surprised to see I’m the first respondent to your blog.
I have detailed my relationship with my now wife Daisy many times in this website but to those who are not familiar with our Odessy I’ll repeat it…
I met my now wife Daisy in Singapore on July 21, 2001. We met through friends. We dancd together through the evening at the “Philippine housemaid nightclub” and then at Papa Joes’s both on Orchard Road there, we are both mild mild persons and we got along well.
We shared the the same ideas and thoughts; I was under a contrived ‘Restraining Order’ from my soon to be EX.Daisy was separated from her first husband. Both of one first marriages were not good.
We hit it off beautifully; we are both easy going people…
After 7 years of divorce and anullment (don’t ask the details… look them up…
Result:
Spouse visa denied because application made BEFORE ANULLMENT GRANTED… small point but through deal killer…
Now married in 2009.
Working on spouse visa.
We are true to each other..
Jade
Yep, Jade,
A deal breaker to be sure. This trips a lot of people up, over the years when they sort of “forget” about previous marriages (who can blame them if things wen tbad, thye naturally want to forget it. But for a Philippine citizen, they are NOT legally free to marry unless they have a legal Philippine annulment, or they are divorced by a foreign spouse AND the foreign divorce has been recognized by the Philippine court.
Sadly, wishing just can’t make it so. Good luck with your journey from now on.
Correction:
FIANCEE visa application made before annulment granted… small point but same effect.
We battled with “super-rich judge for the annulment for 5-6 years lots of bottles of johnny walker to that corrupt scum who wasn’t gonna grant the annulment under any circumstance. Finally he called in a psychiatrist to evaluate Daisy to find why she would abandon her gun violent cheating acting like a single kid husband who was also politically connected also. Psychiatrist recommended change of venue: new judge new lawyer her choice BTW. In 3 WEEKS annulment was granted!!!
But dept of state 2 years later DENIED us due to the TECHNICALITY.
We were married 4 weeks after the denial came in.
Can’t get married when you’re in the middle of a fiancee visa application, right?
Jade ( John And Daisy Edward ) and if we have a child that will be his/her name – JADE!
Further clarification: Our fiancee visa application was denied 4 times during this process, and 3 times due to my letter writing to the HSBC or whatever they decide to call themselves for the latest political agenda, the denial was reversed except for last and 4th time because of the TECHNICALITY. First denial reversal was done because of fake paperwork by a fixer, second because they said we only wanted a green card for her got that reversed too through signed polarized letters from both of us, 3rd reversal was because could not attend interview because annulment hadn’t come through yet. Many calls many letters to that govt burocracy did that, BUT NOT ONCE DID ANYONE EXPLAIN TO ME IT WAS ALL FUTILE BECAUSE APPLICATION MADE BEFORE ANNULMENT WAS GRANTED! INCOMPETENCE! Not until the last final DENIAL!
Gosh I thought through my taxes paid the govt would be willing to help me…
We now are working through our SPOUSE visa application through an advertiser on this site. Lawyer Deron on Smalcom – cost approx $ 1200.00
HELLO DAVE !!!CAN YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU MARRY IN PHILIPPINES TO A PHILIPPINA ,THEN LIVE IN EUROPE AND AFTER SOME YEARS GET A DIVORCE IN GREECE BY GREEK LOW……..THEN GET MARRIED TO A PHILIPINA IN GREECE WHERE IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL……SO IS THERE ANY PROBLEM IF I GO TO PHILS AS A TOURIST????I AM NOT ASKING FOR SPOUSE VISA OR PERMANENT STAY OR ANY OTHER PAPER….I LL BE THERE FOR 3 MONTHS JUST FOR VACATIONS….WHAT YOU THINK????PLS ANSWER COZ I M GONNA TRAVEL SOON.THANK YOU!!!1
Apostolos
First of all, remember I am not an attorney, you can hardly rely upon personal opinion you receive from guys like me on the Internet. If you are worried about a legal issue, I suggest you consult an attorney (and it does sound like you are worried).
In my opinion, though, you have no worries. Assuming you are a Greek citizen and that your divorce was legal in Greece, then you were perfectly legal to marry your second wife and yoyu have no legal issue with Philippine law.
Your first wife, on the other hand, may still be considered married by the Philippine government. That is the crazy part of this whole “you’re married, you’re not married” legal Kabuki play.
Philippine law has no control over you, as a Greek, getting a legal divorce, but a Philippine citizen married you you is still subject to Philippine law, world-wide. Gives a person a headache if you let it,
You, however, are completely legal in my totally non-professional view. Enjoy your stay.
As I understand, in these cases the ‘guilty party’ is considered as not divorced in the Phils while the ‘innocent party’ is considered divorced.
As in may european countries ther eis no guilty party anymore (dont know aby greece), usually the one filing for divorce is considered to be the guilty part.
This indeed may lead to the weird situation that in the phils your ex-wife is still married to you but that you are not married to her, yet you could still sue her for adultery if she would be with another man 🙂
thank you so much dave…..january i ll be there and talk to an attorney,but from what i have heard its almost impossible,specially if not live there all the time and just go for 3 months vacation every year….thanks again dave all the best to you and marry christmas in advance!!!!
No worries man, I married in Phil, we got divorced in Europe after 4 years, I then moved to Phil and married again, no problem. You are welcome in Phil no matter how many Filipina you married and got divorced from, the only requirement is that if you will get married in Phil again you need to submit the divorce papers from abroad together with your application for a Philippine marriage license.
thank you so much for your help ANDOR,you really made my day,(its 6.45am here in greece now)….but one more thing i like to ask…you mean that having the divorce in greece by greek low and coming to phils ,its possible to get married again with a philippina in the mayors office or church?????and what about the first marriage that is registered in NSO????CAN I CANSEL THIS????have you done it???i would apreciate so much your answer.have a nice day whereever you are and be always happy.thanks once more.
This is depressing news. I am British, my girlfriend is Filipina, and we live in Malta. We’ve lived together for the last year and a half. Previously she was married (in Malta) to a Maltese, who has now moved to Canada. The marriage lasted about 2 years. In Malta she has to file for legal separation (she plans to do this soon), and then after 4 years (yes, 4) she can file for divorce under Maltese law. At that point I was really hoping we could marry, but you’re telling us that she may risk never being able to return to the Philippines if we do.
Do you have any more information about what you said above, about the option for her to file a case in the Philippines courts to have the divorce recognised? Chances of success?
And if we do marry, she’s OK as long as she never returns to the Philippines, is that right?
AJ,
Much like Dave, I’m not a lawyer. The way I see it your question is best addressed to a practicing lawyer in the Philippines. However I will give you some information that may help guide you toward asking the right questions. The following information is found in Philippines Republic Act 8533 known as the Family Code of the Philippines. A portion of it was amended on July 17, 1987 by President Corazon Aquino. This is known as Executive order 227. The following is a link to Chapter 1 Article 26. I’ve also pasted a portion of the text of this order for purposes of this discussion.
http://www.lawphil.net/executive/execord/eo1987/eo_227_1987.html
Art. 26. All marriages solemnized outside the Philippines, in accordance with the laws in force in the country where they were solemnized, and valid there as such, shall also be valid in this country, except those prohibited under Articles 35 (1), (4), (5) and (6), 3637 and 38. (17a)
Where a marriage between a Filipino citizen and a foreigner is validly celebrated and a divorce is thereafter validly obtained abroad by the alien spouse capacitating him or her to remarry, the Filipino spouse shall have capacity to remarry under Philippine law.
My interpretation of this is that it is possible to have a divorce decree honored by the Philippines government under a very specific circumstance. Your situation “MAY” qualify. The only problem may be this part, “a divorce is thereafter validly obtained abroad BY THE ALIEN SPOUSE”. I don’t know if the Philippines government would scrutinize who actually petitioned for the divorce. That is where a lawyer is needed. A divorce decree from the Maltese government may not even state who the petitioner is. That being the case there may be no problem at all.
Other options:
Can the spouse file for the divorce if willing to do so? This would be useful if the petitioner is scrutinized.
Is the spouse deceased? If so can a death certificate be obtained?
I hope this will be of some help to you.
Regards,
Jeff
Thanks very much for the reply Jeff. I appreciate that it’s not legal advice, but it certainly helps us direct our efforts more wisely. It seems that if my girlfriend’s Maltese ex-husband is the one to file for divorce (once she gets through the legal separation), that should increase her chances of being allowed to remarry under Philippine law. Her ex is certainly able to file for divorce, being alive and well and living somewhere in Canada. I’m not 100% certain that he would be willing to, but it’s worth a shot. Thanks once again for sharing your thoughts on the matter.
AJ,
I found the following information on the Philippine Consulate, Los Angeles website. You may need to read it from the page itself to understand the characters.
http://www.philippineconsulatela.org/FAQS-MAIN.htm
Question: Are there foreign divorces that are recognized under Philippine
law?
Answer: As a rule, divorce is not recognized in the Philippines as a mode
of dissolving marriage. In cases however where a Filipino citizen contracts
a marriage with a foreigner, a divorce validly obtained thereafter in a
foreign court by the foreigner spouse, i.e. the foreigner spouse initiated
the divorce proceedings, such a divorce will be recognized under Philippine
law (Article 26, paragraph (2), of the Family Code). The foreign divorce
will have the effect of capacitating either the foreigner spouse or the
Filipino spouse to remarry under Philippine law.
Question: What if Maria initiates the court proceedings to obtain a
divorce?
Answer: The Family Code provides that the foreigner spouse should be the
one who will initiate the divorce proceedings. If Maria herself initiated
the action to dissolve the marriage, a divorce obtained thereafter will not
have any legal effect on her marriage with Pedro. Any subsequent marriage
contracted by Maria will be considered null and void under Philippine law.
Regards again,
Jeff
Regarding the chance of success is getting a foreigner-filed divorce from another country recognized by the Philippine Courts? Quite good from what I have seen. Nothing at all like the the issues of getting the courts to grant an annulment.. But the most key and critical element always is, the fact of who actually filed the divorce. If it was file by the Filipino member of the marriage, don’t waste your time, it is just not going to happen. Sorry.
Hi Dave – A very well written article. Not so relevant to me as I am married to a foreigner only. Lol. I have noticed the letter of the law in the Philippines is not so important, From observation is is more important not to impart shame on a Filipino. If you do, you will have massive problems. It is against the law not to wear a helmet in Dumaguete, 19 in 20 don’t wear them and no ones cares, Maybe is you bring shame on some one or annoy the wrong person, then it might become a problem. Most of people in jail or detention will not be because of the law specifically, it will me more associated with offense or shame, Laws exist in the Philippines for sure, but the emotions of offense and shame seem to drive them the most,
Yep, you said a mouthful there, Brenton. You touched on two really, really big issues that many of us foreigners (and I certainly include myself) fall into frequently:
First, the law is not applied consistently or equally. If you can’t deal with that fact, stay back in your own country. It is like a broken record for me, day after day, hearing from people whose big problem is, “I wasn’t treated fair.”. Guess what? You weren’t, and you likely won’t be .. so “get over it, or get out of it.”
Second problem you touched on is critical to getting along with people here. Never back people into a corner. Situations like where they have to say no to you, and they are scared to. Give them an “out”, so they can ‘talk around the problem until you yourself catch on to the fact that they are saying no..
Sounds convoluted to be sure, but this is the way things get done here.
hello dave, my wife is greek nationals and i am a filipino. she wants divorce after 4 months marriage.
i have concerns reardig divorce, she can file divorce if we are married for 4 months?? thanks
and one more i live in her house thessaloniki greece.
Hi Joshua,
Here’s what I find just by typing “divorce law Greece” into Google. If the answer to your question isn’t there, I strongly suggest you seek help from a Greek attorney … I’m not a ;lawyer.
…
Hi Dave!
I’m a Filipina with a British fiance who was married to another Filipina here in the Philippines. He filed for a divorce from that woman in the UK, and was granted a divorce just last year. He is now here with me fixing our papers to get married here and we’ve hit a roadblock at City Hall. The people there said that if our CENOMAR (Certificate of No Marriage from the National Statistics Office) shows that we have previous marriages here (I don’t, he of course, has), our Marriage License would be put on hold until his ex-wife gets that divorce decree recognized here by the courts. I don’t understand why we have to wait for that since he is a foreigner, and was granted a divorce already by his own country, so technically, he’s free to remarry anywhere he wants, including the Philippines. You did mention that you were married, divorced and remarried again..so I just wanted to ask how you went about doing that without hitting that roadblock?
Thanks in advance!
Oh correction on my first post. I had to read through all the comments again and saw that it was someone else who said it. Sorry about that!
I’m still hoping though, that you’d have some wisdom to share regarding our predicament.
Thanks again!
@ Eve
Thanks for contributing.
Welcome to the Philippines. the REAL Philippines, not the charade promoted by the Department of Tourism.
So far as _I_ can read the law the folks at the Registrar Office are _wrong_. But hey, I’m not a lawyer, so that’s just my opinion only.
They are creating a requirement for your “hubby to be” that does not exist in the law.
BUT they are the ones who hold the power to issue marriage licenses.
Even though they seem to be making this up, I see their logic. They are attempting to prevent his first wife from being in the crazy trap of Philippines law where a woman can be both divorced and still married at the same time. What can your husband to be possibly do?
1. If he’s able to contact/negotiate with his ex, he could help her file a case for recognition of the divorce in the Philippines courts. That’s what the registrar _WANTS_ and it does gave the advantage of freeing his ex, legally, so that her life isn’t screwed up forever by the failed marriage. It’s not a very palatable solution to him (and you) I am sure, but it is a solution and it is doable and legal. These cases are filed relatively frequently and the case has a good chance to succeed.
2. Get a Philippine lawyer and file a case against the Registrar,petitioning the court to compel the Registrar to issue the marriage license for you and your intended. This is certainly legal, and possible, but I think it has little chance to prosper and it will take along time and cost a lot and make a lot of enemies …but it’s certainly worthwhile to consult with a lawyer and get her/his actual legal opinion.
3. The third thing which comes to mind is the route I would take if I were in this “pickle” myself. Go to Hong Kong or Singapore or some other country where a Filipino and a Brit can travel without a visa, and where they allow two foreigners to marry, and get married there. Circumvent the entire issue with the Civil Registrar.
Hope this helps. Oh, and I am not sure what you are apologizing for in your second comment. I was married, divorced and am married again) be well.
Hello again, Dave!
Thanks for the fast reply, and the advice. I got a bit confused there reading through all the comments, so I wasn’t sure who said who lol. Turns out I was right the first time.
If we do decide to use the 3rd option, of going to HK or some other Southeast Asian country to get married, will this country honor that marriage? We love to stay here in the Philippines, and he wants to actually get a permanent resident visa here (and eventually dual citizenship). I’m kind of worried that we’d still be in the same predicament of having that divorce decree recognized even if we do get married abroad.
@ Eve
All I can say is, what’s the title of this article? If You’re Married, You’re Married – End of Story. So far as I know, the Philippines recognizes the marriages of all countries by international treaty.
Now if you want to register your planned marriage through the NSO (by way of the Phil Embassy or Consulate in the country where you marry, you are entering the realm where I have no knowledge. You would be well advised to do two things.
1. Your intended husband should go to https://www.ecensus.com.ph/Default.aspx
and order a CENOMR for himself.
There are two possibilities:
The NSO will tell him he _DOES_ have a marriage recorded.
Or they may say, “We have no record of you”.
You can then figure out what to do based on fact and not speculation from opinionated old men like me who aren’t really experts.
Of course, apostolos gave very good advice also .. why not get married in the UK? My (Filipina) wife and I refused to “pull the marriage trigger” until RA 9225 passed and she could be both a US and a Filipino citizen. It’s the best of both worlds in my view.
hi lady !!!i was in the same situation with yr fiance…..the best thing you have to do is to get married in his country ……or you must wait for ages and spend lots for this paper ….there are some unbelievable lows in yr country….thats why the country is full of single moms and separated who dont have the write to get married again…..good luck !!!!
Hello again! It’s been a long time since I replied to your comments, guys..I do apologize, as life has gotten really busy 🙂
I just wanted to let you know that we got his CENOMAR and it turned out that he does not have any records of a previous marriage, so City Hall gave us the go ahead to get married. We got married last year.
Just wanted to thank you guys for the advices you gave me. God bless!
Thanks so much for the update, Eve. I get these kind of questions so often where there is a possible confusion regrading one’s Philippine “Civil Staus” (marital status). People are always worrying, wondering, second-guessing and living klife worrying about “what if’s”.
If there a question about a former marriage just apply for a CENOMAR (you can do it online). It can only come back two ways .. either married or unmarried. There’s no penalty for asking.
If it comes back with the record being “Not Married”, then you’re home free. So many people worry when they don’t even know if they actually have anything to worry about.
Godspeed.
Hi there,
Just want to ask some question. My boyfriend is british and im pilipina. We got married in thailand. He was once married to another pilipina in philippines 20 years ago and its registered in NSO, but divorce in England. My question is can we report our marriage in philippines embassy here in thailand? Will they check his status to NSO? hope to hear from you soon.
Hello Diana,
If you register your current marriage with the NSO, through the Philippine embassy (which I certianly recommend you do), will the husband’s original marriage show up during the process? Frankly, I have no idea. I have no idea how closely they check on the foreigner after 20 years.
I hope your husband has some official record which chows he is divorced from his first wife. My recommendation is, since you will have to visit the Philippine embassy in order to report your current marriage, why not just ask the embassy personnel what you should do. If they say his divorce must be recorded then you can file to have it recorded then and there and that will be that. Safest way to deal with the issue I would think … why live your life worrying that “someone might find out” in the future? Godspeed.
If my Filipina fiance has her passport and all documentation in her surname and hasn’t seen her estranged husband in 23 years, if I file for a fiance visa, will they even check to see if she was married? She currently lives in Hong Kong and would be doing her visa at the US consulate there.
Yes, they will check. She will have to obtain a CENOMAR (Certificate of No Marriage) certificate from the NSO (National Statistics Office), but she won’t be able to obtain one.
Thanks for the info!
She has filed for divorce in Hong Kong, but it’s taking forever
A Hong Kong divorce will be of no help. She will still be married in the Philippines, they will not recognize a Hong Kong Divorce, and thus she will never be able to get a CENOMAR from the NSO in the Philippines. The only way that you will ever be able to marry her (and get a visa for her) is either for her husband to die or for her to get an annulment in the Philippines.
I guess I should have taken care of that when I was there a few days ago! Lol
Wow. Great article.
And very useful to know before getting into it there.
One question…
I understand that I need one and will have to prove that my ex-wife in the USA legally divorced me…..
Does the Filipina fiance who has never been married need a Certificate of No Marriage also?
Thanks!
Hi Byron – The Certificate of No Marriage is not for the purpose of getting married, it is for the purpose of getting a visa. NO CENOMAR is needed in order to get married. But, when she is applying for a visa to go abroad with her husband or fiance, she must file a CENOMAR. So, if you intend to move to the Philippines, it will never be needed. If you intend to get married and live in the States, then it will be needed by the girl you marry.
I’m not sure why you asked about proving your first wife was the one that filed for your California divorce. Are you a Filipino citizen?
If so, then yes it is important and it must be “proved” in a Philippines court case, and the Philippine court must also issue an order to the NSO to change your civil status to “Unmarried”. If you are a US citizen then this does not matter.
Question 2, if you plan to file a fiancee’ visa petition for a Philippine citizen then, yes, absolutely she must prove her “singleness” by having a CENOMAR from the Philippine NSO … no exceptions.
If an American marries a filipina woman in the Philippines but then she dates another american man, can the first american man (husband) press charges if he suspects adultery?
HiTom,
Well I’m not a lawyer … but … I certainly think the husband being cuckholded can file a complaint. Philippine law applies to everyone within the Philippines, and the fact that Americans can even be hauled off to jail for committing adultery is well established.
Hi Dave,
I need your advise please, I am Filipina just married with american here in the philippines 2 months ago.
But because of my “inappropriate past” that he knows already even before we got married, and he keeps on accusing me of doing things that I do not do, (e.g. i have men here,screwing anyone,etc.) and all is just accusations, no proof at all. he wants to divorce me right away. I love my husband so much, i dont want to be divorced. He is now back in the US.
Is there any way that i can contest with the divorce even if he will be the one to file it ? thank you in advance for any help.
hello dave,
here’s my question ..say that i had a relationship with a filipina for 1 month and a half then we broke up ..then 2 weeks later she tells me she is pregnant .. my question is can she or her parents or the philippine government force me to marry my ex girlfriend? im an american citizen here in the philippines going to school. i told her i will support my child but refuse to marry her, for mariage is sacred to me. and only want to get married once but not with her.. any thought or advise is well appreciated..
Well first of all, let me remind you I am not an attorney, so this is just my personal opinion only. Regarding your question regarding being forced to marry her? I don’t think, legally, you can be forced to.
But wow, you are on some very thin ice my friend. You know if a father catches a man having sex with his daughter he is allowed, under Philippine law, to kill the guy he catches?
And what about brothers, does she have brothers? They have the right to “avenge her honor” under certain circumstances as well.
I feel you might be in way more danger from “extra-judicial means” than legal actions. Some things that often happen in cases like this .. the foreigner father winds ip with the crap beat out of him in the gutter and often with the PNP arresting him for some crime or another … example, how old is this girl? Do you know how easy her dad can get a birth certificate that shows she is underage?
In short, the aggrieved father really holds all the cards. You better do what it takes to make him happy. I know you didn’t want to hear that but you asked for advice … so there it is.
Keep your head down and by all means, honor your commitment of support, including acknowledging the child with the US embassy so she/he will get US citizenship. Don’t add yet another waif whose father didn’t get him or her citizenship to my list, asking for help
I found it kind of odd what John said that “marriage is sacred” to him.. but it seems like jumping in bed with somebody to whom he was not married was A-OK. 🙂
Yeah Bob, I sorta wanted to add a bit of editorial content there myself. “Marriage” is sacred, but “fathering a chold”, and handicapping the child for life as an illegitimate child under Philippine law? oh, well no, that’s not sacred. That’s just … I don’t really know.
the girl is 29 yrs old … and she would go to my place i did not go to her place.. marriage is sacred.. i only want to get married once.. but not with the wrong person.. i told her i will support the child..but they want more than that..
Hello Dave,
I am a Filipina came to the U.S. through fiancé visa. My fiancé and I got married September last year in Nevada but did not register our marriage in Philippine embassy . Our marriage isn’t doing well we fight a lot. My question is if he file for a divorce and I will return to the Philippines do I still need to lodge my divorce decree to NSO so I can re marry again? Please give me some advice. Thank you
Hi sis, any update about your situation? I have the same question. We are now working on our divorce and we didn’t report our marriage as well.
Hello Dave!
I got married & lived in Cagayan de Oro City. Unfortunately got Separated after 2yrs of marriage. My estrange foreign husband is living abroad after our Separation. Honestly, I filed my Annulment in Tacloban last 2010 for the grounds of Psychological Incapacity. And Dec 2015 I received the result & it says the court can’t grant my petition for the grounds of improper venue laid. So we (me and my lawyer) filed for the Motion for Resolution and after a month my Atty told me that the court didn’t grant my petition again. To me everything was shattered and all the waiting & money I spent plus the effort I did was all wasted. She told me that we have to file for the appeal in the Court of Appeal in Cebu. My atty said that my case is very strong (meaning I will get good result well she tells me that many times) but to why it wasn’t granted well she said she doesn’t understand/dont really know.
Right now here I am very upset with the result and losing hope to get my freedom. I wanted to be happy and to be free. I want to do it again but then I want to have an assurance of positive result & that I will get my goal of being annulled. I wanted to know how long it will take to get the decision because based on my experienced it took me 6yrs to get the decision & sadly it was negative. I am looking forward from your help regarding with my situation.
Can you recommend some atty? By the way, I met a guy from US 2yrs ago – he knows my past situation and we both wanted to be together. We are thinking of filing divorced abroad like Hong Kong but I don’t know if that will be applicable or if I will be allowed to do that. I just wanted to be free from my previous marriage.
Thanks!
Note: We don’t have kid/s and we don’t have properties to fight for.
Please reply.
@ Lovely
Thanks for sharing. Sadly your story is all too common. It’s depressing and it seem very unfair, but it is the way things currently work in the Philippines. Nothing I, as a foreigner has any business really commenting on.
Two of the front-runner presidential candidates have already made public statements on the divorce in the Philippines issue and from what I read they are both in favor of keeping things just as they are. I’m not hopeful about any near-term change in the law.
If I knew a really good attorney with a successful track record for annulments I’d already partner with her/him … there’s a tremendous need. But actually it sounds like you already HAVEa good attorney. You know more about what’s going on in your case than more than 90% of the Filipinas I talk to in similar situations. The best lawyer in the country can’t necessarily work magic, the real issue seems to be a change in the law is needed.
Practical suggestion (not legal advice, personal opinion only), find your estranged husband and convince him to file for divorce from you in his home country. If he does so, and the divorce is granted, you can then file a case in the Philippine courts to have that divorce recognized and to have the NSO change your civil status to single.
Regarding getting a divorce on another country? Yes it is possible in a number of countries BUT if you, as the wife, file the divorce action it will NOT be recognized by the Philippines, and as a Philippine citizen you will not get a Fiancee’ or Spousal visa unless you are unmarried under Philippine law.
As a Filipino the law of the Philippines applies to you everywhere. God speed.
( CENOMAR ) back up! if a filipina is married in the philippines and she flys to Haiti and obtains a bilateral divorce she can get a fiance visa!!! the only country that will not except it is the Phillippines! who cares because shes leaving to another country and the only country! a filipina married in philippines has four options, fly to Haiti and get a divorce, fly to Guam and get a divorce, fly to Navada and get a divorce or file or get a job in Singapore and after 6 months file for divorce there or fill anullment! who care what the philippines government excepts and dont excepts! she leaving!! to go to USA you dont need CENOMAR.. you need to be free to marry! just obatin is outside of the philippines! bigemy charges can only happen if your married inside the philippines twice not if you get divorced and married outside of that country! whoever said you need a CENOMAR to get a visa needs to know what there talking about before they post! when you patition for a visa you are not doing it for the philippines so there laws and rules dont matter! simple way out is to go to Haiti and get a bilateral divorce they apply foir usa visa it will be excepted! any legal divorce obtained in any country the USA will honor! just because the Philippines wont dosent mean nothing! your leaving there not going there!!
Sorry you feel as if I don’t know what I am talking about, Al, but I do. It’s not so simple as you make it out to be. If only it were.
If a Philippine citizen applies for a fiancee’ visa, in any country, the application goes back to the US Embassy in Manila and the US Embassy follows Philippine law. She/he can not get a Finace’/Fiancee’ visa because s/he fails to meet the basic requirement, being free to marry.
I think you have confused the fact that if the Philippine citizen manages to get to, say,the USA, and then commits perjury by searing s/he is free to marry, sure, they can be married in the USA.
But it’s just not so simple to even _get_ to the USA for most women in this predicament. The law is the law, Al, and blustering about it won’t change the facts. I certainly wish it were different, the Philippine law on this is horribly discriminatory to Philippine citizens. No other country in the world has their laws arranged that way, but hey, I can’t change it. Best regards.
Hi Dave,
My understanding:
1. Poor Filipinos can not end their marriages in the Philippines, but rich can because of the Philippine government.
2. Poor Filipinos are not allowed to enter other countries, while wealthy are because of foreign governments.
Am I correct?
Peace
Jay
@ Jay
I guess that’s a pretty fair summary, Jay.
I agree with Dave, but I think that it is pretty greatly over-simplified. 🙂
Hi Bob and Dave,
I read somewhere that a Filipino could get a divorce in Guam, but wouldn’t they need a Visa to get there unless they were really strong swimmers? IDK.
OK serous question, but just out of curiosity, if Philippine citizen gets a divorce in the USA from a US citizen and returns to the Philippines are they eligible to marry?
Peace
Jay
Yes, to go to Guam they would need a US visa, which for the most part, a Filipino is not going to get. But also, if they divorce in Guam (or anywhere else) they are still not divorced in the Philippines, they are still married.
I do not mean to step on Dave, this is his article, but generally, if a Philippine citizen gets a divorce in the USA, it is complicated.
1. If the Filipino files for divorce, they will not be divorced in the Philippines.
2. If the US spouse files, the Filipino can generally ge the divorce recognized in the Philippines, and can re-marry.
@ Jay
With regard to Bob’s “oversimplification” comment, I agree. Here’s why. You are portraying both the government of the Philippines and the government of the USA as some sort of evil, malevolent forces that just “exist” as if in a vacuum.
Both governments are elected by the people of the two countries and have a primary duty to enforce the laws, which are also made by the people through their elected representatives.
The Philippine Constitution forbids divorce. To American sensibilities this seem harsh, unfair, and just plain wrong. But not so to the Philippine people. I follow the progress of the upcoming elections here in the Philippines and at least two of the front-runner presidential candidates have already come out, strongly,in favor of the existing “No Divorce” laws. If the people want to elect candidates with these views, that’s their business. Obviously the vast majority of the Filipino people like the existing laws just fine, and Americans, literally, have no vote.
On the American side, name me any even remotely electable presidential candidate who is no running on a very strong anti illegal immigrant platform. Filipinos, unfortunately, have one of the worst records of complying with US immigration laws. You want someone to run for office on the platform of loosening up immigration? Political suicide.
Now, regarding your question on an actual divorce, if the Filipina is married to a foreigner, AND the foreigner files the divorce and the court grants it, then the Filipina can file a court case here in the Philippines to have the divorce recognized and her status changed to single. This does NOT work if the husband is a Filipino because the is no divorce for Filipinos. Lex dura, Sed lex (The law is harsh, but it is the law).
Hi Dave,
Thanks for your response! I actually in a way don’t have a problem with the Philippine no divorce except that my understanding is that if one has the resources one can attain an Annulment. I have a friend here that met a lady from the Philippines who was married to a Filipino, but separated from him. He I assume paid a lawyer or sent money for his lady to get her marriage Annulled. I am glad for him and his wife. They are friends of ours and she is a wonderful lady, reminds me of my own wife. This is great, but on the otherhand, my Filipina wife has a sister and her Filipino husband left her for another Filipina 15 years ago. She will stay married to this guy until one of them dies, because of their financial situation.
On the US immigration, we petitioned to have my wife’s mother come to visit on a tourist visa twice. Mama is in her 70’s has never left the Philippines and has 8 children loads of grandchildren, etc. To me she has a huge tie to the Philippines, but she was denied because the US feels/thinks she has insufficient ties to her home country. The US thinks sufficient ties are land and money not family. Land can be sold and money moved. A single wealth 25 year old Filipino with little family ties to the Philippines could probably get a tourist Visa. That is messed up and just plain dumb!
Peace
Hi Dave,
I am in no way angry with you and I greatly appreciate your sharing your knowledge, but I believe one of the reasons as you say Filipinos are so bad about US Immigration laws is that the US is stupid in their process for what constitutes sufficient ties to the home country. We value money and property over family ties. To me that is dumb and why there is the current problem. I not for loosening Immigration requirements, but for basing them on family ties over financial ties because it is more logical. Poor old Lolas like my wife’s mom are a lot less likely than rich young Filipinos in my opinion to overstay a Visa.
Peace
Jay
Hi Jay. I would argue that the US policy is no different. A person who does not have the money to hire an attorney cannot get a divorce. Just playing Devil’s advocate here.
Hi Bob,
Good point. I actually am more annoyed at the US criteria for granting Visa’s being based on money and property when family ties to the Philippines is in my opinion more likely to keep a person from overstaying their Visa. If anything it is probably easier for more affluent Filipinos to overstay. I disagree about it being political. The rules seem to have always been the same regardless of which party is running the show in the USA and I think that is part of the reason for their failure.
Thanks as always for the information!
Peace
Jay
Hi Jay –
Yet this strict U.S. visa rule is probably being circumvented more times that you and I can imagine at the U.S. Embassy in Manila, if you have a friend who does the visa interviewing there.
I am not saying that it happens a lot, but I am aware of one particular instance many years ago during which the visa interviewer, who was a good friend of mine, facilitated the visa approval of an uncle who wanted to visit his family in California despite lacking evidence of sufficient “ties to the land”.
Without going into specifics, the interviewer was a Fil-Am married to a “high official” at the U.S. Embassy in Manila at the time the interview took place..
But, you are right, the government in general does seem to favor the rich.
But, you are right, the government in general does seem to favor the rich…
When has this not been the case throughout recorded history anywhere on the globe.
I know several Filipinas that have obtained divorces in Hong Kong and entered US on K1 fiance visa
Hi Sir can you please tell me what documents they need for applying the visa? I’m planning to file a divorce here in hongkong. But I doubt if US embassy will grant the fiance visa even if I have a divorce papers from Hongkong.
hello and a great day , im zette ong a filipina i have a boyfriend named mike a greek guy his coming here soon and will get married , may i ask you guys in here how can he take me to greece ? whats the procedure i really need some answers . advance Thank you
Zette
As Greece is part of the EU your fiancée will have to obtain a Schengen visa for you.
It will probably be easier to obtain once you are married.
http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/schengen-visa-countries-list/
Hi sir,
I’m Chel married to US citizen but when i get birth to our daughter 2010 he go back to US and we don’t hear anything from him no support no call or massage then 2014 when Im in Oman he say hi and he want that we fix our marriage then just only 3weeks one woman call me and say she is pregnant to my husband and they are together now they have 2 kids and they are married in the USA. All I want to ask if I can get married here in Philippines also…
Thank u so much
Chel
What if you know a Filipina woman (age 29) who is married to a Filipino man (age unknown) living in Taiwan but she comes to the USA and marries a US citizen too (he is 85) (apparently neither men care). I highly doubt that this is legal and wonder what are the ramifications for the woman who went to the Philippines 9 months ago, came back in July and had a baby two weeks ago telling the man in the USA it is his. I assume she wanted the baby to have US citizenship, thus came here to give birth.
Hello …I need big help ……I beg you …….so I love a Philippines woman ….I live in India …..she live in Philippines ,she is married and she have 2 kids her husband is not in Philippines right now he is in China …..we love each other too much ,we want to be together. I want to marry her or stay with her in India ….she is helpless what can she do???..can she come in India and start living with me or marry me ? ..she is ready for divorce but she can’t take divorce in Philippines …..I will die without her ..help me give me advise please …what can we do??..what will be best for us ?…forgetting each other is not a choice ….HELP!!!!!!
Hello there and hoping you can help with this problem. I married a filipina in 1999 in the Philippines and recently got divorced in 2015. I am planning to go to the Philippines to marry my fiance after a year being together. Will there be a problem with cenomar as long as I have a certified copy of my divorce papers? I heard there is an issue with the NSO having to validate my divorce before I can remarry. I’m supposed to leave in June 2017 and get married. What can I do? Thanks
@ Ryan Portaro
Thanks for contributing. The best way to answer your question is, “it depends”. The procedure has always been that the divorced US spouse to be visits the US Embassy, with proof of his divorce, and the U.S. Embassy provides U.S. citizens the opportunity to sign an “Affidavit In Lieu of a Certificate of Legal Capacity to Contract Marriage,” a self-certification that the U.S. citizen is free to marry in the Philippines.
The Philippine government has generally accepted this affidavit as satisfying the requirement to certify the U.S. citizen’s eligibility to marry in the Philippines.
If you were married in the Philippines then your marriage is recorded here and the NSO (now called the PSA) will show your civil status” as “Married”. The actual “control person” who will issue you and your intended a marriage license is the Registrar of Public records, typically in your fiancee’s home town.
The registrars in a number of Philippine towns and cities have been demanding to see a CENOMAR from the US intended spouse. They are within their legal rights to do so and there is nothing further the US State Department can do about it … see
The registrar is the only one who can authoritatively answer this question.
If the registrar refuses to accept the affidavit from the Embassy and demans a CENOMR, the only route I know is to consult an attorney in the Philippines and file a case with the proper district court asking the court to recognize your divorce and instructing the PSA to change your status to “single”.
This is the only way I know of that the PDA will issue a CENOMAR. Godspeed.
“”
Hello Dave I have a question for you hope you can answer it for me, my wife applied for a visa at the u.s. embassy she showed all paper works and there excuse was that they do not believe we are married, all we want is a tourist visa not a visa to stay in the u.s. for a long time just like a month or two, i tried getting a visa through USCIS but they lost the paper works and they never said anything to me and they said the time has elapsed on the vias what can i do to get my wife a visa.
Hi David. I’m kind of lost by your comment in trying to offer any advice that could help you. I’m thinking what I was reading is that your wife a[[lied for a US tourist visa, had her interview at the US Embassy, and was denied. Is that correct? The embassy officer should have issued her a 214(b) refusal letter which gives the reasons for refusal. What did that say? Marital status is not normally a condition for a tourist visa. The most common reason for rejection is insufficient evidence that the applicant intends to return to the Philippines.
Regarding a visa vis a the USCIS, they process immigrant type visas. I don’t know what visa you were applying for. Regarding lost applications, this does not happen often to my knowledge, but since it did this time, what can I say? If you apply again, copy everything in the submission package and keep the copies. Then make sure you follow up, frequently.
In general what you are trying to do, bring your Filipina wife to the USA for a short visit is very difficult. I get this question all the time from fellow Americnas who marry here in the Philippines, do not want to bring their wives to the USA to live, but only for a visit.
These type of applications are very, very frequently denied, on the grounds that inthe Consular Officer’s view, once the husband and wife get to the USA, the urge to stay in the USA is going to overpower the original intention to return to the Philippines. The promises of the Filipina applicant unfortunately mean little to the officer, since the US is already harboring literally hundreds of thousands of folks who promised faithfully to return, but then did not.
And the word of the US citizen husband means little as well, becuase once the wife has a visa and enters the USA, there is nothing the husband can do, legally, to force her to return to the Philippines if she decides to stay, illegally, in the USA.
Sorry, I know of no easy answer. Godspeed.
hi there.
im a filipina, residing and working in thailand. i recently divorce my thai husband. we are married for 14 years and separated for 12 years. recently we both decided to get divorce as we both have found new love. i got married with my ex thai husbang here in thailand. we only register our marriage contract in philippine embassy in bangkok. last month, i ask my mother to get CENOMAR and the certificate says, i got married in thailand and the marriage contract was registered in philippine embassy.
since im divorce now, and my divorce paper is in thai and already translated in english with stamp from ministry of foreign affairs in thailand. i wanted to know, if i register my divorce contract in philippine embassy, do philippine embassy will give a certificate that im divorce already? or any document saying i alredty registered my divorce. me and my fiance from france are planning to get married here thailand. please kindly give me some advice.
thank you all
rach
hi there.
im a filipina, residing and working in thailand. i recently divorce my thai husband. we are married for 14 years and separated for 12 years. recently we both decided to get divorce as we both have found new love. i got married with my ex thai husbang here in thailand. we only register our marriage contract in philippine embassy in bangkok. last month, i ask my mother to get CENOMAR and the certificate says, i got married in thailand and the marriage contract was registered in philippine embassy.
since im divorce now, and my divorce paper is in thai and already translated in english with stamp from ministry of foreign affairs in thailand. i wanted to know, if i register my divorce contract in philippine embassy, do philippine embassy will give a certificate that im divorce already? or any document saying i alredty registered my divorce. me and my fiance from france are planning to get married here thailand. please kindly give me some advice.
i also want to know, if after i register my divorce, will my CENOMAR will be change as well?
thank you all
rach
@ Rachel
Sorry to have to be the one to break the news to you, but the laws of the Philippines do not allow you to divorce. You are probably divorced and single as can be under the laws of Thailand (and almost all other nations), but the Philippines does not allow divorce for Filipino citizens. So far as the PSA (formerly the NSO) is concerned, you are still married to that man you divorced and the only way this can be changed is (possibly) by filing for a legal annulment in the Philippine courts. You need a Philippine lawyer, in my opinion.
Hello, I have a question, maybe you can help with.
My Filipino gf got married and long separated. Not a legal separation but no contact for over 20 years. Now it seems that there was an error on her birth certificate and the name is different than what she thought it was when they got married. So there is a Cenomar for her birth name that is not married. Does this mean that she would be free to remarry? Or in this case marry using her birth name that has a clear cenomar? If all of her identification has this name and there is no link to the old name that has the typo in the marriage certificate not only in name but locations and such.