I hear from a lot of expats things that are pretty negative about Filipinos. Some expats tell me that Filipinos are stupid. Others say that Filipinos are lazy. Sometimes I hear that Filipinos are greedy. The other day, I got an e-mail from a fellow in the States asking me if Filipino women usually stay in touch with their ex-boyfriends.
When I got that e-mail from the fellow asking about staying in touch, I replied to him and told him that despite what he may think, or what others have told him, no single patter of behavior can be ascribed to all Filipinos. This same advice applies to all of those other things. Stupid… lazy… greedy….
Are Filipinos stupid? Some of them sure are! But, are all of them stupid? No way. The same applies to each of these character traits. Think to yourself, are there stupid Americans? Ha ha.. you better believe it. Are all Americans stupid? Well, as much as I sometimes think we may be… I have to admit that not all Americans are stupid. This applies to all nationalities. Every country has stupid, lazy, greedy people, and every other type of person. Every country also has smart, industrious and generous people. Nobody has exclusivity to any of these traits.
There is one expat, I’m sure he will know who he is, although I will not mention names, who comments here on LiP regularly that he has no interest in socializing with Filipinos. He often says (maybe in different words) that Filipinos are not intelligent, or are somehow mentally and socially inferior to him. He can’t learn anything from Filipinos, so why make an effort?
Well, my experience has been different. In my life, I have found that I can learn something from each and every person that I come in contact with. Even those who are admittedly not very smart, or are much different from me. Sometimes, it just means that by interacting with them, I learn, or realize how lucky I am, or how blessed I am. In some way, by interacting with people, I find that it helps improve me in some way. I have never gone and interacted with people and thought that it was a waste of my time, or that I did the wrong thing. Each person has something to teach us, or make us think differently in some way.
The thing for me is, why would any of us even want to come and live in the Philippines if we do not want to be around Filipinos? Many of us, I am sure, have had the thought “Why do those Mexicans come up to the USA and they all just hang out together. They don’t interact with us. They take our jobs. They don’t even learn to speak English!” If you are British, maybe you think that way about the Polish. If you are Australian, maybe it’s the Pakistanis that get you upset. But, think about it… we are coming to the Philippines, and many of us are acting the same way that makes us upset about those coming to our countries! Does that make sense.
For me, coming to the Philippines is all about learning new things, seeing things that I have not seen before, enjoying a different culture, etc. I know that for many, the only reason they come here is that things are cheap here, life can be lived without much money, or whatever. But, maybe you should also be kind to the people who are your hosts here in the Philippines? Show them a bit of respect. You never know, you might also be able to learn a thing or two from them, if you give them a chance to show you what they do know.
It makes life more enjoyable if you can learn to live in peace with those around you. It’s not always easy, but if you make an effort it will get easier.
Hi Bob;
From a smart man I learn what to do.
From a stupid man I learn what not to do.
Greedy Americans, no way, wait I forgot about Wall Street and Washington D.C.
Lazy Americans, more than I care to remember, like you said, the U.S. has no Monopoly on these traits, nor does the Philippines or any other country.
Hi Paul – Very true…no country has a monopoly on any trait, nor is one trait universal in any country!
Very True!
I think so, Steve.
if you take the time to dig past the surface you’ll find we are all very much alike.
I think we are alike in many ways… but also different in others.
Hi Bob – Now that the elections are over, it’s time to get out and socialize. Have three weddings coming up and a couple of speaking engagements, too. Everyone was kind enough to hold the invitations until after the elections – they knew we were laying low and were thankful that “we followed their advice”! 😉
Hi Paul – We are just the same… I have two weddings to go to in the next week – one is my niece and the other is my brother in law. I am not really looking forward to the long drive, but what can I do? Ha ha.. it is a good chance to get out and socialize, though.
Filipinos I generally meet are like “Houses with all the lights on but no one is home”.
Good opening HUH!
Hi Bob it’s me that guy. Look I respect where you are coming from but I haven’t had the same experiences you have had. Perhaps it is your ability to both understand and speak the language and therefore can understand and converse with people who I don’t have the opportunity to do the same with. No I can’t learn the language.
As I said previously I have friends in the Philippines but they represent a demographic that is more educated, moneyed, mistizo (mostly), english speaking traveled and experienced outside the Philippines. I can talk to them about many things that are interesting to me and them.
There is absolutely nothing interesting to me (and I have tried to make an effort) in speaking to someone who firstly speaks very little english and secondly are generally poor, uneducated, and inexperienced in most all things in life and therefore have nothing to say because they don’t know anything except for things I have no interest in! Now I speak in broad strokes now but sitting here with my wife and she agrees with alot of what I am saying and suggests that mostly POOR Filipino are interested in: drinking, gambling, gossips, destroying other Filipinos through jealousy, etc.
As for more middle class Filipino I really haven’t met many of them so can’t judge.
Even though I may be a guest in this country as you say here. I have no obligation to treat a Filipino any differently than anyone else. I treat them with respect and courtesy but that’s it and that is the same standard I give anyone else for that matter. Frankly, it is expats that are bullied by the locals with their false nationalistic emotions.
Also as I said most of the expats I know have the same attitude and experiences. They try but them give up as there isn’t anything there for them either.
Bob just go to the majority of the 3rd World countries in the world and most expats hang together whether it be for language or social reasons. Most don’t have locals as friends except through the symbiotic relationships of perhaps their wife’s family but that is it oh and maybe through work related.
Hi richard – I totally disagree with your opening. But, we all are different…
I don’t think my experiences are only because of language. I lived here for 7 years + before I even began learning the language, and I still interacted with Filipinos. I agree that learning the language increased the amount of enjoyment I was able to get out of such interaction, though.
I believe that no matter how smart we think we are, richard, there is something we can learn from each and every person we interact with.
Richard I live amongst some of the poorest people in Metro Manila, and I do not recognise them in your description. None of our family and friends gambles, a small minority drinks to excess, they all like to gossip just like every other group of humans I’ve ever mixed with, and there is an almost complete absence of jealousy.
Are they typical poor Filipinos? I have no idea, because I have no evidence that I can use to make such a generalisation. But they are certainly utterly unlike your stereotype.
What is your evidence for slandering perhaps 75 million people?
Sorry Richard, but I suspect your attitudes were probably the same living in your own country, since your scale for measuring a person’s value appears to be calibrated in pesos or dollars. Many years ago, in my first anthropology class, we were amazed at what we had missed when the professor played a video of a Kalahari Bushmen hunting party for the 2nd time, pausing and explaining. Later in the course, while discussing IQ, he referred back to the video and reminded us that although most Bushmen would probably score low on OUR IQ tests, we would definitely flunk THEIRS badly! Think about it.
Very cool story, James, about the Bushmen. I bet you are right, we could not even begin to comprehend their test!
hi richard
first off i am not causing an argument by what i say as a little of what you say has value, friendships, conversations love all have a two way road. like time inteligence is a measurement, not every clock i have ever seen tells the time correctly, but its inner working is based around a simple theory, some clocks are cheap others more expensive but used properly and maintained properly they serve the same purpose.The same can be said of inteligence the first piece of inteligence we have is how to breathe the second is eating/drinking commonly called survival some are luckier than others as they have the tools laid out for them to develop their inteligence others are lucky if they find someone to pass some knowledge on to them.I consider myself to be of average inteligence but of an extremely poor background when you become idle (because the capitalist structure breaksdown)it is a little like a clock not being wound up inteligence has no significance and so becomes redundant other things take over because boredom sets in. Now look around you at the philipinos around you would you say that they had the same tools you had? have they got the same oppertunity you had? quite frankly i can see where these people are at in life, they are fed up of trying and failing and look to other means for activity, their failings are because of the inteligent ones failing them. if for some reason tomorrow you had to survive in the very same country who’s inteligence would it be that helped you to survive? remember inteligence is just a measurement of knowledge.
Dave
I also totally disagree,I have been comming to the philippines for thirty years and have met few expats that agree with Richard.thank god foe that.
Hi wayne – I’m with you. Living in that way would not be a very enjoyable life!
Wayne, I too have have been coming here for 30 years and I find it different than you in regards to interacting with the Filipinos I speak of and what is wrong with that or your scenario. We both are happy. And it is not out of not trying. It just doesn’t click for some of us. Many of us for that matter. On the other hand we integrate ourselves very well here and we are loved by most all that cross our path as we are kind and generous.
And we are not missionaries or religious parasites that prey on the ignorant which digusts me more than anything I can imagine
Something I have learned over the last ten years is the importance of MY making an effort. When I first arrived in Saudi Arabia to work, a country hosting many many nationalities, I spent several frustrated weeks, or even months. When I went to the local shop and said clearly “a pint of milk please”, and was met by a blank stare it annoyed the hell out of me. Same with almost everything in fact, the blank stare of nil understanding. One day I sent one of our Indian guys to the supermarket for the pint of milk, and he came back with a British newspaper, the Daily Mail! Instead of being annoyed, I thought this was so funny, we had a long long laugh about this; it turned out that he was too embarrassed to keep asking what I meant, and thought he’d try to get something he saw me with every day…the Daily Mail. (Now for all the British reading this, don’t write me off as a Daily Mail reader…it’s just what was available, OK)?
And so I realised that it was MY responsibility to make myself understood by whatever means I could, and from that day my life improved, and the misunderstandings which inevitably still arose from time to time became a cause for laughter rather than a burning, festering annoyance. And yes, I did say that it was MY life that improved. I picked up little bits of Arabic, bits of Tagalog, and whatever else it took to make being understood easier.
To sum it up, IMHO, it’s us who have to make the effort. Some of us do, and consequently enjoy fuller lives. Some of us don’t and sit indoors avoiding contact, and that’s a personal choice. Why should it matter the social class of the people we talk to? Okay, if you want to have a sparkling intellectual conversation it helps if you have an intellectually equal conversation partner, but you can enjoy a laugh and a joke with anyone, surely?
Lighten up, live longer?
Hi Jim – What you say, and your experiences that you describe really mirror my life in the Philippines! Only difference is that it took me more than a few weeks or months to learn that I needed to make an effort to improve my life. It only takes a few simple steps, and your life can be a lot better. The other thing is that when you make an effort, the local people see that you are trying, and they will go out of their way to help you when they know you are trying. If you are depending on them to go out of their way while you do nothing… well… that doesn’t work.
I have to fully agree. Although I don’t know the language, I think it’d be very helpful if I did. That’d though away the stereotype that I’m just another Joe.
You really should learn the language, Jawz. It will really be good for you, and should be quite easy to do at your age.
All generalizations are wrong, including this one, but I’m glad you wrote this piece Bob, and I couldn’t agree more with you and less with Richard, whom I have commented on before, with the “only the rich and educated” are worth talking to and “the “expats always hang out together” viewpoint.
In my three plus years here I have found MANY Filipinos I have learned a lot from, and most of them are not rich, notably educated, or in positions of power or influence.
Even though I lack your language skills I lack your language skills I also find I generally get along just fine dealing with Filipino neighbors and business people.
In fact, I often have difficulty when family members or other well-meaning Filipino friends “step in” and try to help with things. They often try to change things or ask for special treatment because of “generalizations” they hold about what foreigners want.
Do I get frustrated at time? Of course. Do I sometimes run into people, especially in customer service roles, whom I fantasize about clouting with a 2×4 to or screaming WAKE UP!at? Certainly.
But in general I succeed and am well satisfied with living here. And I find that every little success is like a stone in a foundation, the more I take things into my own hands, stop treating Filipinos as “people from another planet” and instead work my way through issues … the more I succeed the next time. It’s kind of like building up momentum.
One thing I have proven to myself, beyond a doubt is, if I go into a situation, business or social, with that “Oh dear, I have to deal with those Filipinos where the light is on with nobody home”, the situation will almost never turn out well.
The more I try to learn, the more I find I learn.
Richard (and others with similar views), I mean no offence, your opinion is yours to hold, and it is certainly not my place to try to change it.
But, perhaps without realizing it, you are coloring your whole experience of living here by prejudging and generalizing future interactions based on events in your experience. Expereince is important, but it is, after all, the past. The past is revered by many, but it is indeed a poor predictor of the future.
Remember the definition of the self-fulfilling prophecy?
Why would I want to live in the Philippines without interacting with Filipinos on a daily basis? The logic quite escapes me.
Hi Dave – Nice comment, and very true to many of my experiences. I especially liked what you said about experiencing difficulties when people try to step in so that you get what they think that you want. I often find that family members, or other Filipinos will tell others to do “this or that” for me, because that is what I would want. I think to myself… that is not what I want, why don’t they just ask what I want, so that they will know? It really shows that the more I do for myself, and tell people what I want, the better the results will be. It’s amazing. But, the key to enjoying life more here is to open up, enjoy the experiences that come your way, and try to “just be part of society” if you know what I mean. Language helps, but it is not the only way to improve life here.
Living here and having a need or want to interact with locals other than your spouse and family is totally irrelevant to my happiness. I have a wonderfully full life and have many quality friends both expat and local.
Bob: Since we’re generalizing here…
In my mind, the more money one has, the likelihood that one is also an ass rises proportionally.
I’ve worked with the very wealthy before (In the yacht business, with royalty in the Middle East), and, with few exceptions, I would rather talk to the butlers or the maids than the head of household.
The attitutde of the wealthy largely parallels that attitude that some expats have: Living here makes them feel superior to everyone else because they are wealthier than 90% of the population and they can “buy” people’s “admiration”.
The wisdom that my poor, uneducated, farmer, mother-in-law could give beats the pampered, whiny, arrogant, moneyed experience that some expat just here for the whoring has to say.
An yes, I’ve traveled extensively through the developing world, and I usually avoid expat communities and gatherings, because I hear the same old crap, over and over again. Never once have I heard anyone in one of these groups speak admiringly of the local population, in any of these countries. More often than not, they just sit around and bitch and moan about how everything is different.
Many good points there, John, and really in line with my thinking too.
John – how sad that ” never once” have you heard anyone in any ex-pat groups in all of those countries speak admiringly of the local population. I suggest you read some of the prior posts over the last few years on LIP and you will find many many such comments.
Dumbest thing I ever read and coming from an intelligent gent like yourself. Really John.
You are right Dumb is Dumb, here there and everywhere but it generally ties to income in developing countries but not always. The fact is the expats I know don’t socialize with most Filipinos not out of any superiority complex but simply due to not having anything to talk about or in common. I also listen to their conversations with their own girlfriends and can’t imagine how they can even handle being with them for more than 5 minutes at a time. Lets not make this into anything other than what it is. It is not about snobbery, ego, status, being better than, etc…. It is simply about intelligence. But as I said it is not always about wealth. I had a friend here once who was worth 300 million dollars (deceased). But he was dumber than nails, uneducated, inexperiencd in so many ways and I felt like I was his personal encyclopedia. I grew tired of that and him and avoided him as often as I could. It just so happens that most of the dumb people in this country are POOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Richard and Ian:
You are mistaking schooling for intelligence.
Hey, if living around expats in an isolated manner is what makes you happy, then so be it. However, some gems I’ve heard over the years (Generally more normal in tone than unusual):
1. This would be a great country if it weren’t for all these damn Bahamians (Spoken in the Bahamas at the American Club).
2. Know where I can get some good p***y around here? (At NAIA airport while waiting at passport control)
3. This country has gone to s**t since we gave it back (In Hong Kong at a bar frequented by expats)
4. The brown buggers will rob you every time (In Malaysia at a yacht marina).
5. Bloody Filipinos… They can’t do anything right (At the yacht club in Cebu. In front of his Filipina wife).
I can list dozens more, but I think you get the point.
I’ve heard enough of this crap that, since we are generalizing here, makes me lean against hanging around other expats very much. Perhaps my views are colored by the amount of time I’ve spent around the Eurotrash in Dubai, or in Monaco, Antigua, or other wealthy havens. Perhaps too much time around Arab Sheiks or Chinese business tycoons who won’t pay their OFW help a living wage. Perhaps just too much time around Brits that think the UK still has an empire. Perhaps witnessing some American yelling at the front-end help, who has no authority, because things aren’t “perfect”.
I was at a bar in the Middle East that was run by an expat… He kept brown/Asian expats and white expats separate. Why? Because the white expats were mostly looking to start fights after a few drinks (and yes, there are bars in some countries in the Middle East).
The amount of arrogance I see here in the Philippines from expats is really astonishing. It is also something that is missing when I travel to the province. No, most people up there have not had the educational opportunities that I have had. However, that does not mean I can’t learn anything by talking to them. Everything in life doesn’t revolve around book knowledge. Rebecca’s brother doesn’t have any education beyond public high school, and his English is minimal. Yet, he taught me how to make a banca by hand from a tree trunk, and how to catch fish using nothing but a piece of twine (no bait or hook). Rebecca stopped her education in order to feed her family, yet she knows more about getting things done in the country and navigating bureaucracy than most highly educated individuals.
Good response, John. We need more expats like you.
John – I’ve noticed two characteristic differences between Filipinos and Expats that stand out more than others:
1) A Filipino seldom misses a good opportunity to keep quiet.
They’re far from being stupid – they are most intelligent in knowing which occassions of opening their mouth would bring further problems into their lives (unlike a number of Expats who don’t know when to shut their pie hole!).
2) A Filipino, out of ingrained distrust of others, seldom if ever makes the first socializing move.
Some may think that the “continuously smiling” Filipino/a are making the initial social contact, but those who so think didn’t see the absence of smile on the Filipino/a’s face prior to the other person making eye contact.
John
What you say is true to an extent but (and conditions that exist all over Southeast Asia if not the world)
Yet, those are not the expats I know either and I think they are probably in the minority or mostly found in Malate/Ermita/Angeles bars and discos. Even though quite a few of my expat friends here chase girls as if they are an extinct species they are also not so crude to share or discuss the details of their conquests with me. Hey but some are going to be cruide, that’s life EVERYWHERE!!! Also, across the board they all know the history of this place and are therefore not ignorant in that capacity either.
Of course there are things that can be learned from Filipinos but the truth of the matter is NOT MUCH. NOT MUCH AT ALL. They just don’t have the experience to teach an average western educated individual very much. And give me a break about this wisdom crap coming from an elder. This can apply anywhere in the world as well. Now how about you go check out the amount of child abuse and alcholism that exists in this country behind those sweet nipa houses.
Look this discussion can go on forever and the bottom line is we can all make a decision about how we chose to live our lives. see the Philippines for what it is in balck and white. You all see it in colored glasses.
Enjoy yours and I’ll enjoy mine. We need more expats like you – what horsecrap. Your shit doesn’t stink I suppose!!
Colored glasses? Hardly. As I have written many times, this country has serious problems about poverty and other issues. What alcoholism and child abuse has to do with this… I don’t know. Of course those things exist, and only a complete idiot would deny it.
By choosing to cocoon yourself in a tidy little gated expat enclave and not associate with the “locals”, you are the one who is turning you back on reality… Not me. By refusing to learn the language and communicate with people, you are closing your mind and isolating yourself. By associating only with the mestizo elite, you are associating with the very people who have subjugated this country and help the other 95% in economic slavery for 400 years.
What arrogance to say that the Filipinos cannot teach you anything! You claim to be educated, yet what type of education could you have received not to open your eyes and your mind to the world around you?
Not a very good one, in my book. You wasted your tuition.
Enjoy your life. If it makes you happy, then so be it. Your words have shown that you are exactly the type of person who gives expats the reputation we have.
Richard- either you life is either so boring, or you are so needing of attention, or you have just become so full of venom – that you feel the need to sit online all day saying ignorant , rascist and mean things to try and belittle people . I have to wonder why you post on this site at all? Obviously you dont agree with almost all of the other posters, and have no desire at all to improve your knowledge of anything filipino- so why are you here? I try not to get into making personal attacks, and try to let others have their own opinions [ however little i might disagree] but my friend your posts are becoming way too boring in their monotonous attitude of negative/negative/negative !!
Sorry Bob but I really am fed up with this racist ignoramus!!
Gentlemen I have to come clean. It’s killing me. The truth of the matter is I am a “button pusher” especially on this site. I think it creates interesting dialouge that is far more entertaining than everyone agreeing with a particular subject matter and for that matter Bob. It is so pollyana. So I apologize to those who are terribly offended by my remarks which I tend to take to the extreme to generate response like I have gotten.
as for my actual position on this particular subject matter:
1. I intergrate very nicely in the Philippines thank you very much. I engage in conversation with anyone within arms reach of me filipino or otherwise as I am always interested in learning more about different cultures.
2. Truth be told, I also maintain to some degree that it has been very trying to meet Filipinos I can engage in what I would call intelligent conversation. Most simply want to know everything under the sun about me and where I am from, etc.. and that is boring to me. Even when I talk to them about their life it is always very limiting as most live in a very defined space due to their economic situation. The conversation can only go so far. Nevertheless I make the best of it. I have also become familiar with building a banca canoe from a tree, making Copra, fishing with wire, slautering pigs and chickens and preparing them for a party and many other things.
3. Yes I do have many Filipino friends that are from what would be called Philippine Society and I find most to be like many monied people around the world. Centered on themselves and ambition and friends in the same circle strata. But not assholes by any measure. I find nothing wrong with their way of life as many are also involved with Philinthropic endeavors as well as employing many people oftentimes to the end of their employees and their own lives. Yes their relationship with their “help” is probably fuedal for many to some extent but again this is hundreds of years of cultural making and something quite frankly the filipino is accustomed to and expects.
4. My wife is a saint and is loved by everyone she meets rich or poor. With all due respect to any of the people on this site she has friends and contacts most could only dream about having here all because of her magnetic personality and ability to communicate on any level with sincerity and passion for the other person and their issues. She comes from a middle class family of teachers and farmers.
5. My daily routine is taking my daughter to school, brisk walking one KM, swimming laps for 30 minutes, Going to the Gym for 1 1/2 hrs or playing golf. The hanging with my mostly expat friends drinking cofee and talking about one thing or another. Not bitching or complaining but nonsencial conversation about phones, computers, trips taken to to be taken, golf, etc….Home for lunch, quality time with my daughter, afternoon nap, misc stuff, dinner, computer time throughout the day, reading to my daughter before bedtime, trading and then sleep.
Until next time.
richard
As long as you are coming clean, richard… why don’t you come clean on your name too. I know who you are, and it ain’t richard. 😉
Richard- I actually assumed that that was what you were doing- since your comment were always soooo intended to cause offence. So maybe you arent a bigot, and maybe you do have some filipino friends, but you still are ,and always will be a LOSER !! You get your entertainment from offending people, by causing stress and dissent, and you think a ” coming clean” post in anyway excuses you from being what you are ?? You my friend have no morality, no honor, no sense of decency ! Have a look in the mirror and see just how pathetic you are. So you arent a racist ignoramus- you are actually a obnoxious, uncaring, insensitive, misguided, hurtful ignoramus.
So whats the difference? Either way you are a piece of human garbage . Do us all a favor and forget this web site .I hope i never have to read another word out of your ignorant mouth !!
You know, ian, they say that the root of every joke contains a morsel of truth. Maybe “richard” was just pushing buttons, but I think that the button pushing has a basis in truth, though.
Shorter Richard … I’m bored rigid here in my little self-regarding cloistered community and I get a twisted buzz out of offending people whose ideas I don’t like, safe in the anonymity of the web.
A troll, in other words, the curse of all blogging, and I’m sure we know the appropriate response is “Don’t feed the troll”. I hope all regulars join me in never again replying to anything Richard writes.
Since he brings up the word, let’s agree we all know an *hole when we see one.
richard – watch your language. My policy here is that this is a family site. If I don’t want my kids to read it… then it is off limits.
Well said Ken !! I dont buy the whole ” i’m really a nice guy who just likes to have fun ” line !!! If its walks like a racist, talks like a racist, smells like a racist – you get my drift.
Lets let Richard just endure the real truth – that which he sees when he looks in the mirror !
I have no further comment on the matter. I know Bob has things well in hand.
Hello, John, I think your bro-in-law is dumb following Richard’s definition of smart conversations. If he has no opinion on hedge funds (all poor Filipinos don’t have), then he must be dumb. And if they are poor, they must be interested in gambling, gossiping or drinking.
Really Richard? And this is the kind of sparkling conversation your wife gives you. I hope you she was rich when you married her; otherwise, her sweeping statement covers a big percentage of people and if she’s not rich, then she must be deploring something bad about herself.
I think the contentious opinion on this is because people have no consensus on what constitutes “intellectual conversation”. Some people have the opinion that most poor are dumb bec they gamble, gossip & drink and for that reason, they are not worth talking to.
I thought being poor is an observable proof of an economic status. One’s value system, or intellect
(what is intelligent to you anyway?) is distinct and separate to one’s buying power.
While I can agree that there’s no need for you to learn the language and even mingle with poor Filipinos, I agree even more with you on your right to believe about those deplorable qualities are monopoly of the poor. If that’s how smart people think then by all means, think that way.
Roy:
One of the things that always amazed me here is how people use their ingenuity for survival. Look at the uses for bamboo, coconuts, and the other resources around! I also believe that age carries wisdom with it… There are certain life experiences that cannot be learned in a book. Educated or not, those experiences have value, and stupidity is not knowing when you don’t know something. My inlaws don’t have a clue as to what I do for a living. They have no life experience to compare it with. However, place me in their daily life situation and I am in the same position. That doesn’t mean that each side ccan’t learn from the other.
john,
I agree with you, many people mistaken the term “education” from “intelligence” and I think that is because of their “stupidity” to differentiate the two. (ironic isn’t it?)
A person who did not attended school can be more intelligent than the one who did, education should not be equated how intelligent the person is. However, Education is a tool that can sharpen the existing intelligence of the person.
That’s very true, John. I know that I could not make it on the money that many of my in-laws live on. I would have no idea how to live the lifestyle that they live.
Richard,
I am a filipino and I can carry discussion with you, just tell me which language you want, I can speak Italian, Spanish, Arabic, a little bit of German language and nihonggo, and I have not been in any of those countries, nah let’s not discuss things using the language i mentioned, let’s talk using my own language “tagalog” and we’ll see who is the “uneducated” and the “Stupid” one.
if you were to go to planet mars, would you speak English with the martians or would you expect them to speak your language fluently? would you expect the martians to have similar interest with you? kind a stupid isn’t it?
to overcome stupidity in a foreign country there’s a cure for it and it is called “ADAPTATION”.
you would be a nice subject for a Social anthropology study.
Dans – let me tell you something- that I mean in a nice way. YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME ! You are preaching to the deaf my friend .
Just accept that some things -and people- you are never going to be able to change and your life will suddenly become less stressful and more enjoyable.
Ian: My wife speaks seven languages fluently and bits and pieces of about four more… Without a university education. She is not only smarter than me, but smarter than most people I know.
John- I spent 21 years in school. And the 3 most intelligent people I have ever met? One is a lawyer, one is a retail clerk, and one is an auto mechanic.! [ The only difference between them is that the lawyer has absolutely no social skills and makes a 2nd career out of getting divorced and paying alimony ! lol ]
😆 😆 😆 Good one, Dans!
hi bob,
hehehe, I think richard is suffering from lack of Enculturation process, and that makes him a good candidate for a Social Anthropology Study, his lack of understanding about his surrounding is what makes him to think “he is better than others” which is a common syndrome for people who are unable to use their intelligence to adapt with their surrounding.
hehehe let’s talk about intelligence here… LOL!
Hi Bob!
I liked your comparison of foriegners being here to that of the immigrants in the U.S. etc. There is a slight difference though; the immigrants here are usually old guys retiring and not people working to improve their financial situation. Maybe the Philippines is more like the island of misfit toys if you recall the old Christmas special from many years back.
Good point there, Tom, regarding the relative age of immigrants in each country. I had not considered that.
Well, this basically lays out the “Kano Arrogance” I mentioned in my Average Joe blog. When I first talked to an online friend around my age, he had a furious grudge against Americans for a moment when he kept saying “They think we’re indigenous”- and I got other friends who have said things like “They think they’re better- not all, but some.”
If the expat who says these things has a Filipina girlfriend, then why is he with her? I think this would be a sign that he is trying to take some kind of advantage over her if he thinks he is far superior. Now that is sick and twisted (although sometimes they might get the knife turned on them from their own stupidity).
I know many backstreet Filipinos (lowerclass) might be more prone to being perceived as ignorant with the lack of english, which, could be true if it hints lack of education. Then there are tambays too. But do the expats disregard much of the other people? And what about the Ateneo students my age? They seem not much different than people back home (except for cultural attitudes in places and such). I was thinking yesterday also about what a Kano here said to me;”They see a pricetag on your CENSOR. I got the money, they got the CENSOR”. He also hinted how easily he could take advantage of girls cause of that (reality; them taking advantage of him) and them being young and stuff. I’d like to see him try that around Ateneo. He’d be kicked where it hurts.
Ha ha… Your skills of observation are sharp, Jawz! 😆
I think it is hilarious that some people downplay filipinos and make them sound stupid. Some say that their inability to speak english makes them ignorant or dumber than Americans. But most filipinos that I know that don’t speak good english also speak 2 to 3 languages in their own culture. My wife speaks Tagalog, 3 dialects and knows Philippine Sign Language (PSL). Most people who say that people who can not speak english are stupid, they can only speak 1 language – English. So now who is the stupid one here? The person who knows english well and refuses to speak any other language or try to learn one? Or the people who know little to no enlgish but can speak multiple languages?
Hi Darin – Most of us who are native English Speakers (Brits, Americans, Aussies) can only speak English! It’s amazing that we look down on those who are not perfect with their English, yet speak 4 or 5 other languages! I know that when I speak Cebuano, I often feel a little worried if I am saying exactly the right thing or not. Funny thing is, if I make a mistake, they don’t berate me, or call me stupid, they just get a little chuckle and help me as best they can.
This is a long and interesting discussion. My Philippine wife speaks English Tagolog, Ibanag, and Illocano, with a little bit of Japanese and Spanish on top. She grew up in a multi-lingual household and learned many of her language skills as a young child. I grew up in an environment that used only English and even studying other languages in school (Latin and German in college) proved difficult. I think that learning to use a different language from your home language is colored a lot by the language environment that you grew up in.
I also have not been very good at being social, even in English, here in the USA. I try more when I am with her family visiting in the PI. My work was concentrated on designing and fixing electronic circuits, with my face down over a circuit board etc. for a lot of the time. It didn’t make me very socially adept. Now at 67 years old I am taking more time to think about it. I must try harder.
Hi Larry – My experience is similar to yours in that I grew up in an English only environment. I took Spanish in school, and learned a bit, but never was able to really converse in the language. However, I found, after moving here, that it is not hard to learn a language if you are immersed in it, have a good teacher and have a desire to learn it.
“In the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. ”
— Bertrand Russell
This is the well-researched Dunning-Kruger effect (see Google/Wikipedia for more), and explains why the ignorant are often convinced they’re right.
Having said that, without adequate language in common it’s virtually impossible to discuss matters of philosophy and intellect – or maybe even elections!
But despite my lack of tag/ili/cebuano/etc and their (somewhat) limited English, I find I get on fine with my Filipina inlaws – we sort out many issues over a SanMig. But a lot of it comes down to an open mind and mutual respect – important in any relationship.
And as Bob so rightly says, don’t plan to live in PI if yu don’t like the people. It’s like a vegetarian at a BBQ.
Hi william – Nice quote, I like that….
Thanks for your interesting comment.
One of the things I underestimated about Filipinos is how complex the culture and personalities are.
Sometimes people behave in a way we would classify as _____. But if we took time to understand the person, there may be deep reasons, conditioning, pain, suffering, social pressure and others that explain their behavior.
Hi Joe – How is everything in Kalibo? 😀
You are right, and while learning the language, and learning more about the culture, I have come to realize the exact things that you are talking about.
Things are Hot in Kalibo. Very Hot.
Hot in Davao too! 😉
I appreciated your comment about learning from everyone. My Dad died when I was in my early teens. He knew he would not see me finish school so he gave me a crash course on life. He told me it was important to listen to what everyone said for everyone could teach you something. It may be the way not to do something, but it is all important at some stage in life.
I have come across a lot of different kind of people in the ministry and business and I have always remembered what my Dad said and listen and it has paid off. Sometimes I have come face to face with a problem and recall something a person who would have been judged unimportant by society had told me and it has saved me time, money and head aches.
Some times we confuse stupidity with cultural differences. I am not going to lie if I was younger and in good health I probably would go home. I am concerned about starting over at 70 plus and bad health. I also may not want to admit my moving to the Philippines was not all I thought it would be and there will be those friends in my parish back home that will say “Father, we told you not to go.”
Then this morning I go to Davao Doctor Hosptial for my regular blood work, have breakfast across the street, come home and stand on the balcony for a few minutes looking at Mount Apo and think I am just as well off here as I would be in Texas. Life really is about what we make it to be regardless of where we live.
Hi Tom – I think that your last paragraphs really sums up the way to enjoy a good life. No matter where we live, it is us who decides how good our life will be. If we choose to complain and moan all the time… well, our life won’t be too enjoyable. If we choose to make the best of what we have been dealt, well, we can have an enjoyable life, no matter the obstacles. We can move to other places, and that may marginally improve our life (or it may be worse even), but in the end, we are the ones who can change our enjoyment of life.
Hi bob,
A PhD holder doesn’t really impress me at all, to me it is a piece of paper nicely hanging on the wall for everyone to see and of course it gives the owner a bragging right (for nothing), however, achieving a highest degree of study is not an indication of being “educated” as a matter of fact, there’s an old saying in filipino.
“kung sino pa ang may pinag-aralan ay siya pa kung umasta na parang walang pinag-aralan”
Make feyma translate it for you.. hehehe she will agree to it.
So true Dans. When I was younger I hear my cousins of my same age who are Batangguenos used flowery tagalogs that are rich in metaphors that I cannot even think of. And even in my Manila “tagalog”, I don’t think I was ever florid like them. Because of this, I grew up fascinated with a people who may be from the country or often poor. Unfortunately, I am quite exacting with those who have more. I hate it when I hear “He is quite nice. & to think he is rich.” Like we are incredibly lucky to meet a nice person who is rich at the same time.
Hi dans – Feyma is not around right now… and my Tagalog is near ZERO! I’ll ask her about it when she is home later.
Dans;
At the end of my time in the Navy, they gave me the G.I. Bill, which I used to get my Bachelors Degree (From the University of the Virgin Islands in Saint Thomas. When done I put in the mail to my Mother, whose dream it was for me to have one. It meant very little to me, and most of my friends don’t know I have it. So I agree with you!
I gave up on ever seeing progress here when waiting for my kid to get out of school one day. Parked in front of me was a grandfather waiting as well. Feeling the need to ease his bladder he opened the door of his car, stood and let fly. When I confronted him and asked him why he would urinate within sight of small children his reasoning was that the toilet was sooooo far away, inside the school building, at least 100 feet distant. This was an “educated” man, articulate, well dressed, but oh so lazy. In my experience this is the example set more often than not. So would I care to socialize with this person? Doubtful.
Hi Tony – That is indeed unfortunate. I will say that I see a lot less public urinating than I did 10 years ago, though. Still, it is not really considered a bad thing here.
Tony- I have been thinking about your comment for a couple of days. Of course my first instinct was to be outraged, but then I thought more about it. I doubt that a single one of the children who might have witnessed this event were upset, shocked- or even surprised! This is such a common event here that it is considered to be normal- and acceptable ! Of course to us its absolutely vile and unacceptable, but I think that this is one of those situations where what is unacceptable in our culture is acceptable in Davao City culture. [ I say DC coz I dont see it so much in Manilla or Cebu ]
One thing i notice here is that people generally are less concerned about nudity amongst family members- and i think that comes from 6 or 8 people living day and night in an area which to us is the size of a bedroom .
Thank you for sharing a stimulating topic Bob. It’s sad some of us filter out wisdom merely because it falls outside our realm of experience.
I’m always reminded of a NASA project to develop writing instrument that would work in a weightless environment. As you probaly have guessed a traditional ballpoint pen, which relies on gravity, doesn’t work in space. Hundreds of thousands of dollars, the clever, well educated, engineers came up with the solution.
The Russions, on the other hand, just used a pencil.
Thank you David. Ha ha… interesting about the pencil.. I didn’t know that.
I have met many good people on my visits to Tagbubunga, Leyte. I have been impressed on how Juramie friends have opened their hearts and have made me a part of their community. One of my friends is Bernadette. She live is a small cement block home and is a mother of two beautiful children. Bernadette family is very important to her. She is a devout Catholic and works doing laundry to support her family.
Juramie, her family and friends arranged a Manyanita surprise for my birthday. Bernadette made the flowers for the celebration. She was the first person to dance with me as everyone was singing. At Christmas time, Juramie gave small cash gifts to family and friends. Bernadette cried when Juramie gave her the present. I feel blessed to be able to call Bernadette a friend.
I have a link of the Manyanita Party on this message.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26277828@N03/4177406919/
Bernadette is in the brown and white striped shirt by the door. Salamat Bernadette for being my friend.
Some people will call her poor and uneducated (which is not true). She is rich in life experiences and friends.
Nice store, Jack. I enjoyed learning about Bernadette!
If I had a certain person attitude, I would have never known Bernadette or other friends of Juramie. I actually feel sorry for Richard (or whoever he is). I don’t believe for 1 minute that he is doing the things (exercising, playing golf, socializing)that he says he is doing. I have made many friends in Leyte and I feel blessed with my life experiences.
I have an unrelated topic to this post. I plan on keeping a diary of my trip to pick up Jho. Can I be a guess contributor and write a small article?
Hi Jack – If you would like to submit a guest article for LiP, you would be most welcome! Just let me know.
Bob- I certainly agree that every joke has some morsel of truth, because i think we can only laugh at things that we can relate to in some way.
but I do not see intentionally causing others pain or distress as being a joke .
I think that you have many posters because people find this site as a safe and convenient place to ask questions, air their views, get feedback on their thoughts and feelings about the Philippines. And Richard disprespected them and violated their trust. When people with real concerns took a chance and expressed themselves in public here, in an attempt to gain some incite, Richard shat all over them . And that I do NOT consider to be a joke.!
And of course the subject matter had something to do with my getting so angry. Older men from our culture have been educated and raised to be much more aware of the big bad world than your average youngish girl from the provinces, so when I see or hear a foreign make abusing or taking advantage of those less aware people [ even in print as Richard did] it really incenses me. And altho I havent actually seen Richard abuse anyone, his attitude is so abusive as to make me appreciate that, under his thin layer of respectability and “joking” there is, as you say, ” a basis in truth”
Enough said on this subject please .
Let me just clarify, ian. I didn’t mean that richard’s tirade was a joke. What I meant was that just like every joke has a bit of truth in it… richard’s behavior has a bit of truth too. His bastos, inappropriate, racist tirade, while he passes it off as just “button pushing” has some truth. He actually is like that to some extent. Maybe (just maybe) he overplayed it, and came on stronger than he really is (maybe not)…. but he has those seeds buried inside him. If he did not, he would not even talk like that. So, I think we are agreeing here, ian.
The first time I read your comment Bob I misinterpreted it, but when I reread it i realized that we were totally in agreement! lol
Hopefully he will find some other place to play his games and display his ignorance.
This site is one of the best around and I would hate to have people like Richard turn it into something else.
Hi ian – I agree that this is a good site, and I like to keep it welcoming and non-confrontational. Many, even most other sites are not like that. Don’t worry about “richard” – he has been here for about 2 years and used many different names on the site, always trying to stir trouble. So far, he has been unsuccessful in his quest, and I intend to keep it that way.
Bob Your right on about Richard, the rotten appel in the barrel,the MASTER….MANIPULATER.
Sir Bob.
Life is but a circus and like a circus life as its clowns.
No doubt, Frank! 😉
Hi bob well richards comments are exactly what i was talking about in a previous post ,coming from the west and “the lucky country” which i can attest is true i had never sen poverty as i saw in davao only breif glimpses of it but it scared the s…. out of me i quite often go on you tube and jst randomly pick a sublect but the other night i ended up on smokey mountain i dont know how but i did , i just dont know what to say for these poor people that i saw living on the rubbish tip but to say they are uneducated and speak very little english maybe they didnt get the oppertunity to go to a nice school maybe they just had to survive ,all one can hope is that the children get a break so that they may have the chance to live up to richards expectations of a philipino.
chris
Hi chris – Smokey Mountain of Davao no longer exists. It’s been maybe 8 years since Smokey Mountain was destroyed, and replaced by a nice area with plenty of trees and such, quite a beautiful place now, in fact.
From the sidelines…Y’all just egg Richard on. He’s a moron so just ignore him and his comments. Four months till NFL time baby! 🙂
Possibly of interest. NOT the ranking to which Quezon referred in his April 2007 braodcast. This is from Reader’s Digest:
World of Courtesy: Ranking of 35 Cities
Below is a ranking of the most courteous to the least courteous — 35 major cities included in RD’s Global Courtesy Test. Figures reflect the percentage of people who passed in each city. When multiple cities had identical scores, they are listed in alphabetical order.
New York USA 80%
Zurich Switzerland 77
Toronto Canada 70
Berlin Germany 68
São Paulo Brazil 68
Zagreb Croatia 68
Auckland New Zealand 67
Warsaw Poland 67
Mexico City Mexico 65
Stockholm Sweden 63
Budapest Hungary 60
Madrid Spain 60
Prague Czech Republic 60
Vienna Austria 60
Buenos Aires Argentina 57
Johannesburg South Africa 57
Lisbon Portugal 57
London United Kingdom 57
Paris France 57
Amsterdam Netherlands 52
Helsinki Finland 48
Manila Philippines 48
Milan Italy 47
Sydney Australia 47
Bangkok Thailand 45
Hong Kong 45
Ljubljana Slovenia 45
Jakarta Indonesia 43
Taipei Taiwan 43
Moscow Russia 42
Singapore 42
Seoul South Korea 40
Kuala Lumpur Malaysia 37
Bucharest Romania 35
Mumbai India 32
From Reader’s Digest – July 2006
So, they list New York City as the most courteous city in the world? Ha ha… NYC must have paid for that listing!
You’ve got to be kidding, New York City LOL !
I was wondering, Bob, if that list was actually the least courteous cities? 😆
I guess we will never know just how that list was derived. Maybe it depends if is to be taken from a residents point of view or that of a visitor. Then would that be a domestic or foriegn visitor.
There have been many improvements in many ways in New York City compared to past decades such as cleaning out the sleaze from the Times Square area.
New York City continues to bring in visitors and tourists from all over the world despite the many problems there. I guess that could be said about many major tourist cities.
The many times I have been in London, England people there were polite and courtious to me and that is another world tourist attraction. I wonder why London is not on that list.
Come to think of it, I don’t remember anyone being dis-courtious to me on my visits to Mindanao either. Maybe it depends on the attitude and behavior of an individual as to how they are treated by others.
Interesting thoughts, Bob. It would be interesting to read the whole article that accompanied that list.
You can read the full article through this link: http://www.rd.com/living-healthy/good-manners/article27599.html. Or google: Reader’s Digest Uncommon courtesy. Yes, as a New Yorker I was surprised at its good ranking. The article explains the methodology used in the rankings. It was NOT a self ranking – or paid for.
Hi ProfDon – I’ll have to give that a look! Thanks for the link.
Sorry to clog your website, but did you see this in Reader’s Digest a couple of months ago. Interesting that lack of trust does not translate into lack of votes, see end of list:
Here are the list of (Reader’s Digest Asia) Philippines’ Most Trusted 2010
1. Rosa Rosal (actress and philanthropist)
2. Lea Salonga (singer and actress)
3. Jessica Soho (journalist and vice President of GMA News)
4. Tony Meloto (philanthropist, founder of Gawad Kalinga)
5. Beningo “Noynoy” Aquino III (senator)
6. Rafael “Paeng” Nepumuceno (bowling champion)
7. Howie G. Severino (documentary filmmaker)
8. Randy David (newspaper columnist)
9. Mel Tiangco (TV host and newscaster)
10. Efren “Bata” Reyes (pool and billiard champion)
11. Jaime August Zobel de Ayala (businessman and CEO of the Ayala Corporation)
12. Cristeta Comerford (White House executive chef)
13. Miguel Castro “Mike” Enriquez (TV and radio newscaster, senior vice-president of GMA news)
14. Boots Anson-Roa (former actress, director of Mowelfound)
15. Angel Alcala (marine scientist)
16. Julius Babao (news anchor)
17. Vilma Santos-Recto (actress and Governor of Batangas)
18. Von Hernandez (executive director of Greenpeace, Southeast Asia)
19. Archbishop Angel Lagdameo (president of Catholic Bishops’ Conference of the Philippines)
20. Michael V (comedian and TV host)
21. Chin Chin Guiterrez (actress and environmental activist)
22. Archbishop Oscar V. Cruz ()
23. Arnel Pineda (lead singer of Journey)
24. Mar Roxaz (senator)
25. Henry Sy (founder and chairman of SM)
26. Sharon Cuneta (entertainer)
27. Conrado de Quiros (newspaper columnist and author)
28. Kidlat Tahimik (documentary filmmaker, writer)
29. Antonio A. Oposa Junior (environmental lawyer)
30. Bishop Efraim Tendero (national director, The Philippine Council for Evangelical Churches)
31. Charice Pempengco (singer)
32. Dr. Rey Melchor F. Santos (president of Philippine Medical Association)
33. Monique Lhuillier (fashion designer)
34. Gloria Diaz (actress former Miss Universe)
35. Dr. Lilia H. Pagtakhan-Luna (obstetrician and gynecologist)
36. Manny Pacquiao (boxer)
37. Dr Eusebio Z. Dizon (archeologist)
38. Dr. Ramon Santos (musical composer)
39. Chris Tiu (basketballer and TV co-host Pinoy Records)
40. Reynato S. Puno (Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the Philippines)
41. Alfredo S. Lim (Mayor of Manila)
42. Kris Aquino (TV personality and actress)
43. Lorenzo “Lory” Tan (Vice-Chairman WWF)
44. KC Concepcion (actress)
45. Jaime T. “Jimmy” Licauco (parapsychologist, author and founder of the Inner Mind Development Institute)
46. Brillante Mendoza (filmmaker)
47. Rodrigo Duterte (Mayor of Davao City)
48. Senator Richard “Dick” Gordan (politician and chairman of The Philippine National Red Cross)
49. Roberto del Rosario (businessman and inventor of the Karaoke Sing Along System)
50. Francis G. Escudero (senator)
51. Romeo Gacad (photo journalist)
52. Joker Arroyo (politician and lawyer)
53. Dr. Esperanza I. Cabral (secretary of Department of Social Welfare and Development)
54. Napoleon L. Nazareno (and CEO of PLDT and SMART)
55. Ernest L. Cu (director and CEO of Globe Telecom)
56. Korina Sanchez (TV personality)
57. Jon Santos (comedian, gay marriage activist)
58. Billy Crawford (musician and actor)
59. Alfonso T. Yuchengco (head of Yuchengco Group)
60. Manuel “Manny” Villar (senator)
61. Hon. Jesil A Lapus (Department of Education)
62. Fidel V. ***** (former President of the Philippines)
63. Noli de Castro (Vice President of the Philippines)
64. Lucio Tan (businessman)
65. Gilberto Teodoro (secretary of National Defence)
66. Lieutenant General Victor S Ibrado (chief of staff, Armed Forces of the Philippines)
67. Marian Rivera (actress and model)
68. Eduardo V. Manalo (deputy Executive Minister of Iglesia Ni Cristo)
69. Carlos J. Caparas (cartoonist and filmmaker)
70. Asi Taulava (Philippines National Basketball team captain)
71. General Jesus A. Verzosa (Chief of Philippine National Police)
72. Cristine Reyes (actress and FHM’s ***iest Woman 2009)
73. Ferdinand “Bongbong” Marcos Jr. (politician)
74. Imee Marcos (politician)
75. Willie Revillame (TV host (Wowowee))
76. Katrina Halili (actress and model)
77. Imelda Marcos (former First Lady of the Philippines)
78. Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo (GMA) (President of the Philippines)
79. Joseph “Erap” Estrada (former president of the Philippines)
80. Hayden Kho Jr (doctor, acto
Good Day every one:
You know what, “Some expats tell me that Filipinos are stupid. Others say that Filipinos are lazy. Sometimes I hear that Filipinos are greedy.” and they are. So are Americans, French, Russians, English, Spanish, Australians, Congolese, Egyptians, Iraqis…etc… Starting to see a trend here????? The fact of the mater is they are human just like the rest of us and we all have assets and faults. God did not make us perfect I am ashamed to say, So accept the bad with the good and the good with the bad give more than you get and I’ll bet that will bring about a different view of things.
Oh yea I forgot,,, don’t forget to walk a mile in the other persons shoes before you run your mouth. Or as your mama told you ” if you can’t say anything nice do not say anything at all… THANKS MAMA!!!!!!!!!
May we all be blessed enough to allow our Lord to make something positive happen in our lives.
Without a doubt, Wayne.
Hi Bob:
I probably should add that I have found people from the Philippines are loyal, caring, hard working, devout, happy forgiving, loving, warm, accepting and unyielding to try and please the ones they care about, etc. The bottom line is that we all should try to find the positive in life and each other as God intended us to do. Of-course we all need to see things in the actual light as they actually occur and be objective in our viewing and interacting with one another.
I have found that I have been whole heartily accepted as a member of my wife’s family, and it is not from being an American or supposedly having money. In many ways they do better in their social stations in life than I do here. I certainly can not afford helpers, cooks etc here in the USA, but my wife’s family can in the RP. When it comes to fitting in no matter how much I try to study the customs I usually screw it up big time and I usually get a gentle explanation as to the “proper way to do things.
May we all have a Blessed day in Gods great plan for us.
Hi Wayne – Filipinos allow for us foreigners to screw up… if we try to do right, that is what is important. If you choose to live here, though, you will get less leeway after time, since you will be expected to actually learn how things really work.
Hi Bob:
That is understandable and makes total scene. I believe, but could be mistaken that is common in most places and cultures.
In Richard’s defense some of his observations are very spot on. It’s just not sugar coated enough for this site.
The people here are not stupid,what they lack here is a decent well grounded education and common national language. English or tagalog get rid of the rest.
Need more foreign teacher’s to bring the kids up to speed. 60 kids in a hot poor ventilated classroom is no fun and a lot of them don’t all speak the same language ie. Ma’am can you say that in tagalog, Ma’am can you say that in cebuano, Ma’am can you explain that in marawi. I’m sitting there thinking they can’t understand each other? It is also memory teaching, not critical thinking, that needs to be addressed.
I have spoken to the more educated and moneyed Pinoy, confident and interesting, they are miles different from your provincial barangay person, what do expect from the poor, some of don’t have clue if the earth is round or flat (I asked some kid’s by the way, 7 said round 4 said flat).
You gotta give the people here a break, they are far from stupid or even lazy ( too hot to do a hard days work).
For example,when we visited Davao city I was surprised at how modern and ‘with it’ the people were. I really felt like a “badjow” or “Iliganon” especially when I went into a night club in my shorts and t-shirt and slippers. The people were dressed to the nines, looked as good if not better than someone from Sydney. A lot of them to my surprise spoke very good English and were very entertaining, which impressed me immensely.
There is no doubt, give the Philippino the same educational opportunities as a westerner he will be as entertaining and as smart as someone from the west.
Boss – No sugar coating is necessary on this site. richard is nothing but a troll.
Bob- i have to admit I didnt know what a troll was- so I looked it up.
1. internet troll- definition:
Being a prick on the internet because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it’s the internet and, hey, you can.
Ha ha.. that’s a good definition.. and certainly applies in this case!
Boss- I dont think my posts have been anywhere near sugar coated- and neither Bob nor anyone else has ever asked me to tone things down !!
To me “sugar coated” means to only say certain things, or to say things in such a way, that no one gets offended.
I actually had more respect for Richard when he was showing his racist attitude- because at least he was being honest ! I certainly disagreed with him, but respected his right to have whatever attitude that he indeed has. It was his lying and pretending to be something he says he wasnt – just with the intent of causing hurt- that angered me. I will always try to defend free speech [ within certain limits!] . Be a bigot if you want- but at least admit what you are !
Boss- let me add to my last post. When I say I try to respect free speech I am referring to remarks made to peers in private, or made in public.[ And I did say w/i certain limits] Since this site is at Bob’s discretion I dont think Richard has the right to come her spewing his racist remarks to a fairly liberal group of people who are mostly trying to assimilate into another culture.
Granny dumping in Canada
Sometimes better educated with a better standard of living isnt better in all ways ! Altho this is very rare in Canada it still does happen. You might be old in the Philippines and eating nothing but dried fish and rice in a bamboo shack, but at least you probably wont get abandoned !
Elderly patients being abandoned in ERs
Tom Blackwell, National Post
Published: Thursday, May 13, 2010
Canwest News Service files Elderly people are being abandoned at hospitals across the country, geriatric experts say.
Some come with notes pinned to their clothes or tucked inside pockets. Often, they are unable to explain who they are or where they came from.
Across Canada, hospitals have encountered a rare but troubling phenomenon: elderly patients abandoned by relatives or others in crowded emergency wards, with or without an acute medical problem, geriatric experts say.
“There probably isn’t an emergency department in the province or in the country or anywhere really that hasn’t seen this happen,” said Dr. David Ryan of the Regional Geriatric Program of Toronto.
“Sometimes it comes from that whole issue of elder abuse…. Sometimes, less often, it’s people who are misusing the system. There are stories that we hear from time to time about somebody who is dropped off with information on how to reach the family, but the family is gone and they’ve gone on vacation.”
The practice, nicknamed “granny dumping,” is an extreme example of the wider issue of senior citizens arriving at emergency simply because they or harried family members do not know where else to turn, say nurses and doctors. The problem is unlikely to go away as a growing number of Canadians enter old age, they suggest.
Ontario, like some other provinces, has implemented programs to ensure those older people end up where they will get the best care. Some health-care professionals complain, however, that there is a shortage of services to help people overwhelmed with the burden of caring for ailing older people, often incapacitated by Alzheimer’s disease or some other form of dementia.
“We all deplore the act of what they’re doing,” said Teri Kay, executive director of the Ontario Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse. “[But] in some cases, family members are desperate. You could be caring for your parent, who might be cognitively impaired, at the same time you are working and raising your own family. To say the least you are tired and exhausted.”
Like other experts, Ms. Kay said dumping is an uncommon, yet undeniable phenomenon.
She recounted two cases in Toronto hospitals in the past year, where seniors were found in emergency waiting rooms bearing notes that included their names, but no telephone number or other contact information. They were unable themselves to explain their history, Ms. Kay said.
At Windsor’s Hotel Dieu-Grace hospital, Norma Mamaril, a geriatric-emergency-management (GEM) nurse, said she sees about two such cases a year. The most recent was a few months ago, when an elderly man arrived alone by ambulance with virtually no identification and speaking only Serbian.
Ms. Mamaril did some extensive “detective” work and determined that his wife had left him and moved to Quebec. When she tracks down the children of such patients, they often seem unwilling to get involved.
Coming from a Filipino background where families typically look after their elderly members at home, the nurse said she finds such attitudes mystifying. “I feel very sorry about the patients,” she said. “I always tell them ‘If only I could take you home.’ ”
Doris Flynn, a GEM nurse at Kingston General Hospital, said dumping, though “really rare,” often stems from some dramatic change in the person’s situation. She recalls a patient delivered to emergency by ambulance after the son who had been looking after her became incapacitated by drug addiction.
A Calgary woman said the patient in the emergency examining room next to her mother’s recently had been abandoned in the department, with a note pinned to her asking for help.
If such incidents are rare, it is much more common for family members to actually accompany elderly people to emergency when they can no longer care for them.
“It could be an elderly woman who’s looked after her husband for years as his dementia worsens,” said Chris Crooks, a social worker in the emergency ward of Halifax’s QEII Hospital. “She’s care-giving 24 hours a day, trying to keep it going and then it reaches the point where it becomes humanly impossible to do.”
Senior citizens can spend days in the department as staff find appropriate services for them, she said.
The Ontario government has implemented a number of measures to deal with such scenarios. They include a program that sends emergency-department staff to nursing homes to offer care, as opposed to the residents being sent to the hospital, said Dr. Ryan. The province’s community-care access centres, which oversee nursing homes and home-care services, have case managers stationed in some emergency rooms to coordinate placement of seniors, he said.
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hey Bob I have been around alot of people like that in the ststes…they are everywhere ..happy in the philippines ..phil n Jess
Yep, Phil, there are a few in the Philippines, too, unfortunately! 😉
Poor richard got beaten up big time here for some apparently politically incorrect remarks.
He probably should have been more positive and constructive, but hey like he says he is just enjoying life in his own way, and apparently his Filipino wife is okay with it. People are different, and why don’t we give him a break?
I am not here to say I agree with him totally but what he says has some truth to it, don’t you agree?
I don’t hate poor people but a lot of poor people I met in the Philippines do fit his description. Whether richard feels ‘superior’ or not doesn’t change the fact one little bit.
Speaking of being lazy. My expat friends here all happen to agree if you created a laziness index, Filipinos in the Philippines would most definitely score much higher than the Americans. Please note I said Filipinos in the Philippines , as we are also wondering why Filipino workers abroad seem so hardworking and diligent.
I don’t know about you guys, but I have a bunch of in-laws who are really lazy. All they do is to sit their lazy ass at home asking for money from us, out for gimmick, ran into ‘accident’, and got pregnant, etc. If this is not being lazy and stupid then tell me what it is(or maybe it is irresponsible and reckless? To me that sounds worse than lazy and stupid.). I hope you guys can prove to me that my extended family is not typical in the Philippines. If you can prove it, I am going to buy myself a lottery ticket.
Every country has lazy people, but the extent of laziness makes big difference. So MindamaoBob I respectfully disagree with you on your opening remarks about laziness of the Filipinos. There is corruption in the US, but it would be absurd to say US is as corrupted as the Philippines. Same applies to laziness.
Or let’s call it indolence, if laziness sounds offending here. After all, Jose Rizal said it. He wrote a book ‘The Indolence of the Filipino’.
Ha ha ha… Ed, if you think that Filipinos are more lazy than Americans, you haven’t stopped to think about all of the women sitting in their government paid housing collecting the food stamps and welfare checks every month too. And, many men collect welfare in other ways too….
MindanaoBob, I certainly wouldn’t challenge what you said about the people taking advantage of the system in the United States. In fact I think the situation in this regard is getting worse in the US thanks to…I guess it depends on whether you support democrats or republicans, or tea party. Anyway, I despise those parasites as much as I despise their counterparts here in the Philippines.
On the other hand, I don’t think there are many people in the US who think they can just sit their butt waiting for their well-off family members to ‘share’ their money with them.
The ‘indolence’ of Filipinos has its cultural, social and economic roots. In the Philippines, the society tolerates and somewhat advocates the dependency on well-off family members, and the so called ‘sharing’ which not only creates an obligation to force the well-off family members to support others, but also creates an entitlement among some family members. To me this kind of dependency and entitlement would certainly create laziness.
IMHO, the Filipinos abroad are diligent probably because they know they have nobody to depend on, and they also know in foreign countries nobody is buying this kind of notion of ‘sharing’.