It has been a while now since I wrote about my language studies, but that doesn’t mean that I have not been staying busy with it! Now that my teacher, Bebe is also teaching here on the LiP site, I hope that some of you are also doing a little language study of your own!
Right now, I am currently studying lesson 44, out of a total of 60 lessons in the course. Of course, as somebody pointed out to me one time, even if you finish all 60 lessons, it doesn’t mean you stop learning! That is very true, because languages change and grow everyday, and as you talk to people out on the streets, you will always pick up a new thing or two about the language.
For those who don’t know, I am studying the Bisaya langauge, which is commonly spoken in the Visayas Region and Mindanao, with other smaller localized languages spoken in specific locals in the area. However, Bisaya is the language that ties these regions together. Now, some people speak of Cebuano, but Bisaya and Cebuano are the same, basically. There are slight regional differences in Bisaya, but for the most part, if somebody talks about Bisaya, they are talking about Cebuano.
Right now, I am studying my fourth different type of sentence structure, or “focus” and there are more to come. However, after this one, I have all of the major focuses of the language, and Bebe told me the other day that once I complete this focus, I can stand on my own with the language. Actually, I have felt that way for a while now. I can go anywhere and be able to speak to people without a problem, and understand what they say to me. It is a very liberating feeling, and a good one too.
So, today, I just wanted to update you that my language learning is going well these days. A few months ago, I had reported that I felt I was in a bit of a slump, not studying enough, and not doing as well as I had earlier. I feel now that I have overcome that slump, and am back on the right path again. I feel like it is a clear shot down the stretch until I will have completed all of my lessons, and I am thankful for that!
When my lessons are complete, though, I won’t be letting Bebe leave. I want to keep her coming for additional lessons – both more advanced learning, and also regularly reviewing what I have already learned. I would also like to delve a little deeper into cultural studies and cultural training after completing my language studies. Bebe is a valuable resource for me, and I don’t want to lose her, even if my formal language lessons are complete.
Bebe, and some others have also encouraged me to learn Tagalog next too. I have very mixed emotions about that. In many ways, I feel it is a smart thing to do. In other ways, though, I think it is perhaps unneeded, and also could cause me problems. The problems that I am talking about is that the two languages (Tagalog and Bisaya) have many similarities, and I fear that I will mix them up. At times when I want to speak in Bisaya, I might accidentally use Tagalog, and visa versa. Also, I don’t travel up North very often (it’s been 5 years), where Tagalog would be most useful, so I don’t know how much I would need that. On the other hand, I am learning Bisaya because I want to fit into society here. Right now, if I am out somewhere and people start speaking in Tagalog, I am in the same position as I was before I could speak Bisaya. So, as I said, I have mixed emotions on the Tagalog learning issue.
I’ll wait until the time comes before I make a final decision on learning to speak Tagalog. What would you do?
Bob,
Why waste time learning something you see yourself not using? I mean if you don't plan to go to use it then seems it will be of no use for you and will eventually be lost anyway, languages are a use it or lose it thing. It is great that you learning Bisaya but not sure about the doing it to fit in part. BTW, How long have you been studying Bisaya so far?
Justin
be all you can be learn the language talk the talk its good to learn a new lanuage im trying to learn to speak tagalog from my wife its not easy my wife is from ( mati ) keep on talking and learning it good.
well, if there is one place in the philippnies where you can allow yourself a few tagalog/bisaya mixups, it's in davao. not so much cebu or manila. that city works well with a hybrid of those 2 dialects. that's how i survived growing up there.
so go ahead & why not? you get to learn a new language & get a deeper insight in how the locals see things.
the downside is, you get qualified to be invited by the locals to watch those pop filipino movies in theaters 🙁 man, those movies are bad and was dragged to so many of them on dates back in the day.
Keep up the lessons, Bob. For me, I'm going to continue to take Bisaya lessons until I finish all 60 lessons, and then to continue with more conversational lessons and practice. I'm working on lesson 16 tonight with Bebe.
I find it easier to practice with Jaycee now that I know the basic structure of the grammar. We usually go over my vocab and she helps me by talking to me slowly so I can hear the words again.
I'm not going to take Tagalog as it will confuse me. I also won't have much use for it as we will be in Mindanao most of the time. My goal is to become fluent in Bisaya, so I'll just concentrate on that.
Hi Justin – Well, I don't see it as a waste of time to learn another language. It will be useful in Davao, but I just need to decide if it will be useful enough to make the effort. It would never be lost, because I am immersed in the midst of both Tagalog and Bisaya here in Davao.
I have been studying Bisaya since August 2007, about a year and a half.
hi larry,
you said your wife is from mati? davao oriental? i'm from there too. i wonder if we know each other.
janet
Hi larry – I am curious, if your wife is from Mati, why did you choose to learn Tagalog? Bisaya is the language of choice there.
Hi macky – Oh… the local movies… maybe I better stick with just English!! 😯
Hello Bob,
I dont think it will confuse you at all learning another language. Youve done great with bisaya. As the saying goes. "nobodys too old to learn anything" By the way, Just asking, did u have to ask feyma to translate some of the comments we wrote in Tagalog awhile back? just being nosy? good job on your bisayan language studies.
Hi Kevin – Congrats on your learning too! Bebe told me that you are doing quite well. Practicing with Jaycee is a good idea, and very helpful. I have an advantage of living here, and I can go out in public anywhere and practice, or even by watching TV, if there is a Bisaya program.
My goal is the same as yours – become fluent. Furthermore, I plan that I want to get to the point where I mostly speak in Bisaya. I will speak in English with Feyma and the kids, but speak Bisaya by everybody else that I come in contact with.
hello bob,
if you want to establish fluency of a dialect, which in your case is cebuano, i would not suggest learning bisaya and tagalog. it's hard enough already to learn the vernacular.
your idea of keeping bebe for learning the culture will help you understand and learn the language faster. culture has a lot to teach why people speak the way they speak.
just my thought.
Kamusta ka Bob,
Speaking from my own view, I would concentrate on bisaya a little longer. Even though it sounds like you have a great hang of speaking bisaya, maybe you should wait a little while before going into tagalog.
Just my opinion, and definitely is not a waste of your time, absorbing more knowledge of something is never a waste of time.
Daghand salamat,
Danny
Hi Danny – Don't take me wrong, I will study Bisaya all the way to the end of the lessons. I am not thinking of switching mid-stream. I am thinking that after finishing my lessons, maybe a year down the road or so, then I might take up Tagalog. Still unsure, though.
Hi Justin – I would not say that people in Davao speak Tagalog rather than Bisaya. They speak both here. It's halo-halo in Davao. GenSan is even more halo-halo, with Tagalog, Bisaya and Ilonggo all mixed together. The poorer people in Davao speak Bisaya. The wealthy people here speak more Tagalog, with Bisaya mixed in.
I would not say that Davao was ever a Moro land. It was more Lumad than it ever was Moro.
I decided to learn Tagalog first. My friends here in Hawaii are mostly American born Ilocanos. So they don't know Tagalog either. Me and my best friends like Tagalog movies and music, so that was our initial motivation. Yet knowing Ilocano here would be more useful. Also when I went to PI, I was mistaken for being Tagalog. So I will learn Tagalog first, since I have a headstart on that. Also do you mix your English and Bisaya. I seem to speak Tagalish esp since that is what I here on TFC or ABS-CBN.
I don't know Bob it all sounds the same to me , so far but I'm trying 🙂 … Phil n Jess
Bob,
I thought Davao was part of Moro land which was stolen despite the bates treaty and thought also that Davao was in part once even included in Moro province.
Maybe Davao was a port city and for that reason many Tagalogs came there, must be some reason why Tagalog is acceptable there while not in other areas.
Is interesting that the wealthy speak Tagalog where as in most areas they speak Mandarin or some other intsik language, goes along with my carpetbagger theory as the wealthy would be mostly land owners who profited from the government sanctioned land grabbing of Muslim lands.
Anyway to whatever extent if they speak Tagalog there then your right learning it wouldn't seemingly be a waste of time since it would be usable to you in daily life.
Justin
Hi Phil – Well, it's actually quite different… but I guess it might sound similar!
Hi Justin – I would never think of Davao as Moro land. It was, though, heavily lumad in it's past – Manobo, Bagobo, etc.
Bob,
I also would think of Palawan as Moro Land but it was also part of Moro Land.
Davao is part of the disputed land as well and was home to the Maguindanao people and Davao was part of Moro Province from 1903 until 1914 when the province ceased to exist.
Moro Land was a huge land mass really that included many places one wouldn't really associate with the Moro people. Truly its a bit confusing as some areas included in Moro land didn't even have mention of containing Muslims by the early Spanish mercenaries despite that the Spanish quite good at noticing Moro things. Actually, Philippine Moro history and culture are very interesting to me.
Below, Is link to a nice site, also talks about the carpetbaggers who brought Tagalog to area.
http://www.geocities.com/lppsec/pp/davaosur.htm
Justin
OK, Justin. Whatever you say….
Bob,
Sorry Im not trying to argue just trying to figure it out. But since you say Davao was never part of Moro Land Ill just continue wondering why its a disputed area and above all else why Don Jose Oyanguren had to defeat the Moro's warriors who fought under Moro Cheiftan Datu Bago. Anyway, Doesn't really matter to me just found it interesting but didnt mean to offend you by pointing out history.
Justin
Well, I have toyed with the idea of learning Taglog too. Bisaya serves me very well where we live, so I don't really need it, but since I know Bisaya, and understand the principles of the grammar, it wouldn't be as difficult. I like the idea of not being at a complete loss in Manila. I have decided that I probably will work on Tagalog, but more as a hobby, because I enjoy learning language. I have some resources on my computer to get started, but haven't had time. We shall see if I ever DO have the time!
Hi AmericanLola – Nice to hear from you again! I hope you are doing well. I am mostly leaning toward learning Tagalog as a hobby like you say, not too serious, but just pick up what I can. Like you say, having learned things like grammar, sentence structure, etc. would make it easier to pick it up.
When will we be seeing you in the Philippines again?
Bob,
I have no doubt you would stop your lessons. Was just saying, trying to take too much in, especially while taking on a difficult subject as learning another language could be difficult and confusing…at least it would be for me.
Salamat,
Danny
PS..I can't wait to get to the level of fluency you are right now…:)
Hi Danny – No problem, I just was not totally clear on what you meant. Just keep plugging away, and you will get to my level before too long. The most important thing is to have a good teacher. 😀
well i mastered redneck so Bisaya will be my third language 😆
Bob,
I understand that in PH they learn their own dialect and also Tagalog and English in school. So if you were to learn Tagalog you would be able to speak to more people in any region of PH rather than bisayan which defines you to one local area. So wouldn't one learn Tagalog first?
Hi John – Ha ha… sorry, my friend, but you are not fully correct. Firstly, Bisaya is not a dialect, it is a language in itself. Secondly, the local languages are not taught in the schools, only Tagalog and English.
Why did I learn Bisaya first? Because in the areas where I spend my time, 95% of the people speak Bisaya! Can they understand Tagalog? Yes, most of them can. However, when they talk amongst each other, they speak Bisaya! It has been 6 years since I've even been to an area where Tagalog is the widely spoken language. Why would I learn that first, when everybody in my house speaks Bisaya 100% of the time when they are here? I want to speak the langauage that is commonly spoken around me when I am in the place where I live. You don't go out in the street and hear people speaking Tagalog (the common people), you hear Bisaya.
For anybody who is planning to live in the Visayas or Mindanao, I can't fathom why they would learn Tagalog first, when that is not what is spoken in their area. One local area? You are right, it limits you to 2/3 of the Philippines. That's broad enough for me. 😉
If you want to find out the real reason why I think I chose the right language to learn, read this.
Bob, Thank you for your insight. It makes totally good sense. Screeeeechhhhh! That is me making a u-turn! hahahaha Thank you.
Hi John – For me, learning Bisaya was the best way to go. For you, or others, it might not be. Everybody has to evaluate their own reasons for learning the language. Deciding which one is indeed a huge decision. I wish you all the best!
I agree. My wife's family is native Tagalog, but she grew up in Gensan and speaks Bisayan, plus of course English, and then there's Ilonggo – sometimes it's all mixed up. Personally I think you'd improve learning Tagalog while continuing studying Bisayan.
Hi Gary – You mean that I should learn both at the same time? What I had in mind was to finish up the Bisaya, then shift into Tagalog. Don't you think I'd have trouble in confusing languages if I learned both at once?
It's funny, I was thinking of this very thing. If the US had may 1 – 2 hundred more years before rapid transit / communications perhaps the south would be at least a different dialect if not a different language altogether.
Hi Bob – Why not learn Pilipino (the "official" language of the Phils other than English) instead of Tagalog? 😉
Oh yes, I can hear it now: "Pilipino is Tagalog"! Not really – Pilipino can be called "standardized" Tagalog, but does include words from other languages and dialects not normally spoken by the true Tagalog. It's sort of a "Tagalog-plus." 😯
Of course, just as in Cebu, there are regions "up north" (Reg. 1) where use of pure Tagalog will get you nowhere (sincere, centuries-old dislikes of Tagalogs and Kapampangans up there). Of course, since the shift to Pilipino is considered one of the late President FEM's best moves – providing the people with a common language – folks "up north" tolerate it a little better. 😆
I don't think you'd have a problem – you'll never "finish" learning Bisayan. If you feel your foundation isn't fully set you might wait a bit, but I think you'd be fine. I almost wish I was in your shoes – you really could choose just Bisaya – in my case Tagalog is spoken in the home, and with many of our friends, but of course not on the street or with the helpers, etc.
Hey Bob & Justin – If I remember my history correctly, the Moro people occupied a much larger part of the Phils than just being in the south. I believe the Spanish found Moro's around the area known as Manila. 😉
Hi Bob,
I came across your site via American in Davao's blog. I'm a Filipina who has lived here in the US for over 30 yrs. I was born in Angeles City, Pampanga but left at the age of 12. I'm impressed with everyone's desire to learn Bisaya. I learned something in the process – I've always thought Bisaya was a dialect. My late grandfather who was an American (from Ohio) of German descent lived in the Philippines after marrying my late grandmother (who was Irish-Filipina) before WWII. He chose not to learn Tagalog simply because everyone he dealt with spoke English. Although I'm from Pampanga, I never learned to speak Kapampangan. I understand it so no one can take advantage of me whenever I do visit. I think once you've completed your Bisayan studies, you should try learning Tagalog. Acquiring another skill is always a plus. I've always wanted to learn another language or two (I'm biligual – English & Tagalog). I just find it fascinating especially after living in Germany for 3 yrs and traveling through Europe. Keep it up.
Vicki
Hi Bob
How are you doing? Well as you know this is a subject close to my heart. I would advise you to get Bisaya well under your belt before you tackle Tagalog. Once you know Bisaya very well you will find that it actually helps you to learn Tagalog because of the similarities in grammar and construction. Tagalog is very useful even if you live in Davao as it it is the language , together with English, of commerce and the media. I find Tagalog very useful here in UK as most of my wife`s friends are Tagalog speakers and don`t understand Bisaya.
All the best to you and Feyma
Regards
Malcolm
Bob, I think learning Bisaya will do for now..Try getting it into your system first. Then when the time comes that you are ready..go ahead learn Tagalog.. as teachers always say..Never stop learning….
As it seems you like to travel all over Mindanao in its entirety, if there are any areas of it that primarily use Tagalog as their primary communication, it might be a good idea to become fluent in its use. I have to marvel at some of the friends I have made there on how they can use so many languages including English, some better than others. Some speak American English so well, if you did not know better you would thnk they are American.
During my visits my friends speak English for my benefit and to be poolite to me. At times however they all start talking Bisaya to eachother and I just sit there watching their lips move and entirely different sounds eminating from their mouth. I really only know American English. How people can speak multiple languages many times at the same time always amazez me.
Go For It Bob !
hi justin,
i hope it's ok that i chime in.
i usually describe davao as a city of immigrants. you are right there was an influx of immigrants in the mid-century and because of that it's become quite a diverse city in terms of filipino ethnicity.
there is actually a language called "dabawenyo" but it is rarely heard & mostly in the far south. you may even find it interesting that in local schools, you will see students conversing in a mishmash of tagalog & bisaya (and a smattering of english words). quite different from cebuano bisaya. i think this is the charm to the city.
i wouldn't call the influx of migrants a type of carpetbagging. these were typical filipinos who were hoping for a better future in a new world. call it the philippine's version of the old california migration.
bisaya also is not the lone dialect in mindanao. there's dialects like chabacano in zamboanga (pidgen spanish, in a way) and taosug in jolo. and i've met quite fluent tagalog speakers from places like jolo & cotabato city, they were mindanao natives & not the affluent type too.
so, it goes a lot deeper than just the moro angle. that said, i am one of those that hope that the moros are allowed a fair share of their entitlements. hope this helps.
Hi Bob,
Well I've only ever glanced at Tagalog – since I dont have any immediate plans on traveling to the Philippines, I dont have much motivation. But I am learning Vietnamese, as some of my students are from there – they have invited me to travel with them in the summer of 2010 to Vietnam. Maybe I can squeeze in a visit to the Philippines at that time . . . crossing my fingers!
Actually, I agree that you made the right choice in studying Bisaya first. Some people may say that if you choose Tagalog, at least you'd be able to converse with anyone in the Philippines since almost everyone here speaks Tagalog. So whether you come to Bicol, Ilocos, Cebu, Samar or any other place in the Philippines, you can talk to the locals. But in your case, this is pretty much what English serves for you. You can talk to locals anywhere in the Philippines with English alone. So why choose Tagalog over Bisaya if you have English to help you converse with the locals anywhere in the country.
Bisaya, on the other hand, helps you understand when people talk to each other. Yes, they may talk to you in English but when they speak to each other, they would use Bisaya. So it's great that you are learning Bisaya.
But about learning Tagalog, I guess you can start learning right after you finished the 60 Bisaya courses. I don't think you'll have problems mixing it up. It's like studying Spanish and Italian. I studied Italian right after learning Spanish and never had a problem mixing it up.
And besides, there's no harm in trying.. to learn Tagalog, that is.
hi janet, my wife name before we got married was vivian salazar leyte lived at 527 gomez st.she worked at the pawn shop i forget the name of it. she has a sister lyneth brothers joseph works for fire department. her mom has a resturant can't remember the again. some where by joliebees.
Hi Bob,
Well, if all goes as planned, we will be back in mid-July! We are having a good time here, have gotten to see all the kids and have done a lot of traveling aorund. This is the first time in a looong time we have been in the USA for a year, and it is good. It has given us time to connect with people and feel at home for a while. Of course, we feel at home in the Philippines too, and very much look forward to getting back! Seems like we spend a lot of time on the phone with people who live in Mindanao!
Greetings to all my LiP friends!
Bob,
Do you know of any blogs, or other websites, that are written in Bisaya? As you know, its hard to find reading material. I want to start reading Bisaya so I can get more practice. Thanks
hi janet my wife ask what is your last name?
I'm part Filipino and I don't like tagalog because I can't speak tagalog hahahaha… I speak bisaya though tapos wala man ko mastorya na tagalog cause bisaya and english man amo gi speak. 🙂