For today, we will delve back into SIR: Smooth Interpersonal Relations, the foundation of Filipino society. For todays specific topic, we will look at Ulaw (as it is known in Bisaya areas) or Hiya (the Tagalog equivalent) which is another very, very important part of Filipino culture. For my writing, I will use the term Ulaw since I live in a Bisaya area, and that is the language that I am learning to speak. But, it would be just as proper to say Hiya instead, so don’t let that throw you.
Ulaw is shame, or loss of face. Here is what my study materials have to say about Ulaw:
Ulaw: “Shame, Loss of Face”
Ulaw is a strong sense of propriety. It is a Filipino’s place in a social setting. It is a strong insult to charge a Filipino with not having “ulaw,” for it means that he does not know either the difference between right and wrong, or he does not feel the proper sense of shame when in a socially unacceptable position.
This is something that I find very foreign to my way of thinking. One thing that has always made me feel very uncomfortable is that Filipino kids are taught to be ashamed. I have always felt that Filipinos (particularly children) have very low self esteem, and that this low self esteem is taught to them, and expected of them. If they do not have this sense of shame, they are being too forward, or being braggarts. While I understand that this is important to the culture of the Philippines, it is something that I am very uncomfortable with, even after having lived here for a long time already.
As an example, sometimes you will meet a young child who is very cute. If you talk to the kid, firstly they usually won’t respond to you. They have been taught that they should be shy or ashamed to talk to people, especially foreigners. Their “place” (as described above) is below that of the foreigner. Where I come from, we are taught that all of us are equal, so this sense of Ulaw goes against the grain of the culture that I have learned since being a young child. If you can actually get a young Filipino child to talk to you, if you ask them if they are “gwapa” or beautiful, they invariably answer that they are not, some will even say that they are ugly. I really hate to hear this, it makes me feel uncomfortable.
For the Filipino, though, if the child would actually say that they are cute or good looking, it would be shameful, a totally wrong thing to say. It makes me feel bad, though. How do you feel about this?
Again, for this topic, let’s have a look at our foreigner thinking, and compare it to how Filipinos would think of the same topic:
- American/Foreigner way of thinking: Men are equal.
Filipino way of thinking: A class system (hierarchy).
This is so true. Where I come from, we think that no matter how poor or rich a person, we are equal when it comes right down to it. Here, though, generally the person with the most wealth is “more equal” than the poor person. - American/Foreigner way of thinking: Horizontal outlook of people (equality).
Filipino way of thinking: Vertical outlook of people (hierarchy).
Again, this is very similar to #1. I often hear people say “he is higher than you” or “he is lower than you.” Usually, for a foreigner, you are the one who is at the top, or near the top of the totem pole. I often feel pretty uncomfortable when I go to some occasion and I am put into a situation of high esteem, when I may not even be known to the others there. For example, I may be invited to a wedding (for no other reason that I am a foreigner). If I go, I will often end up being up at the head table, and I don’t even know the couple who is getting married. Surely there must be somebody else attending the wedding who deserves more to be at the head table than I do! - American/Foreigner thinking: Strong sense of right and wrong.
Filipino thinking: Shame is a major control system.
In foreigner thinking, a person can be good at one time, and bad at another, it depends if he does the right thing or the wrong thing in each instance. Under Filipino thinking, if the person is high on the totem pole, if he does something wrong, it may be ignored, simply to not embarrass him. It would be shameful to say that he has done wrong. - American/Foreigner thinking: Good or bad.
Filipino thinking: What will people say?
For many of us foreigner, we don’t really care much what other people think, as long as we feel that we are doing the right thing for ourselves and our families, what others think doesn’t really play a role in our thinking. But, what others will think is of the utmost importance to a Filipino.
So, what do you think? As you can see, Filipinos are very concerned with what other people think. If you do something that casts a bad light on the Filipino, it causes them to lose face because it shows other people that they have done something bad. If they do something bad, but nobody notices, it is as if nothing bad was done at all. But, calling them out on it can cause you serious problems, because it basically brings down the stock of the Filipino to others who are watching. You don’t want to do that.
We’ll look at SIR some more next week, and see what other areas of Filipino Culture are different from what we are used to.
Morning Bob,
I had the same experience in my short time there of being invited to a wedding and being placed in a prominant position, although my GF did at least know the participants! Quite a feast and good time was had. Undoubtedly during my time in Davao, at some roadside Karaoke maybe,I embarrassed myself after hitting the "Red Horse" (6% Alc Beer) but nobody ever said anything, unlike what may have happened in the west!
Hi AussieLee- It's been a long time since I've gone to a wedding where I didn't know the people, but it used to be common. When I lived in GenSan, a much smaller place, and a place where I was more well known, I got such invitations all the time. It always made me feel uncomfortable! So far, I have not done any singing at the karaoke bars! 😆
Maayong Buntag Bob
The Filipina/Asian way has good points and bad. With the American way you will often see problems with Americans playing as a team since everyone wants to be the star of the team. On the other hand I have noticed Filipino being much more concerned with the team than themselves. In the states my Filipina wife was amazed when she arrived. She could not understand how the poor people would eat as good as the rich for the most part and how the poor people had cars and would be shopping in the same mall as the rich people. One of the biggest issues is the self esteem. You will often see often see Filipinos with a low self esteem and no matter what you do or say they will consider themselves to be below others. Your article helps me to understand why you will see so many of these differences in the Philippine culture.
Hi Larry- Kumusta, Larry. I'm glad that you found the article useful. The low self esteem of many Filipinos really is something that bothers me a lot. Particularly, when I interact with some of my young relatives, when they display such a low opinion of themselves, that really gets to me.
When you talk about loss of face it reminds me of when you ask someone for directions if they do not know the way they will not say Sorry I do not know the way as we would in the west. They will give you some made up directions. I guess to say you do not know would be a loss of face? Or is that something else?
Hi Ray- Exactly, Ray. To not offer help would be shameful. Even though saying "I don't know" would be much more helpful than pointing you in the wrong direction! 😆
Hi Bob
A good insight this, although i knew this was the case living here, until you put it down in this article i hadn't thought it through, i just lived it and find the deferential nature of people a little hard to take at times.
I play tennis and have some young opponents calling me sir. Hmmm never had that happen before but its a part of the culture you write about.
While i don't particularly like the Philippine way you outline i like the good manners it produces, yes too deferential for me but anyway good manners and politeness i like, particularly with children.
The shame aspect i don't get at all. We have a maid leaving and i told her, you are welcome to come back any time to visit. She giggled and explained it would be too shameful for her to come back here after leaving. I don't really get it but you have explained it for me. thanks Sir Bob. (small joke Bob….where is that wink icon when you need it….)
If I think about this too much my head will explode. I can understand the loss of face having spent time with Japanese and Koreans who have the same value, but the Filipinos always find some way to twist it. One of th things that drives me crazy is that they will not say "No" or "I can't do that" they always make promises they never intend to follow up on. Isn't that losing face? Not to them, to say no would be shameful and even worse if you hold them to task if they don't follow through then they really have lost major face.
It gets even crazier in business. I dont go around the store much anymore because I don't want people associating it as being owned by a foreigner. Now apparently I am losing face because I'm not in my business but when I am there people just come to talk not to shop… appently the store is "too nice for them" and they prefer to shop somewhere that is closer to their social level. URGH! If I cared about what class of people was going to shop there I wouldn't have built the place in the middle of the Barangay.
Let's face it, you're not going to change this. It started in the days of the Datus, the Spanish Friars and Illustrados perpetuated it, and during the American period racist feelings among the Americans living here perpetuated it even futher. We did nothing in the Colonial period to break the control of the Illutrados and that is why things never change. Intrestingly enough, Americans here in 1913 complained about the same things that we do now.
this made me sad. =(
"I play tennis and have some young opponents calling me sir. Hmmm never had that happen before but its a part of the culture you write about."
@rick: we're used to calling people older than us kuya/ate, manong/manang, or uncle/auntie even if we're not related. maybe it would surprise you more if we called you "uncle", so i think that's why we just use sir.
Very thought provoking Bob. Having grown up mostly in Australia, with American father and Australian mother I have an interesting take on this. My father was big on phsycology/ positive self talk; it was not on with him to talk oneself down. But my mother used shame talk often as a manipulator of behaviour. Some studies suggest this difference stems from the evangelisation movement in the USA. In this sense it's Americans who are out on a limb here; it may turn out to be the strongest limb but the bulk of cultures worldwide use shame as a key manipulator. This is a really big issue in worldwide attitudes towards America.
At a practical level here in the Philippines what can be done to encourage a more positive self view? Personally I find trying to change peoples fundamental sense of seeing themselves vey difficult so I don't try. Didn't Confucius say " The best example is happiness"?
I think the worst thing you could do to a philippino is to pity them ..We had a cousin stay with us in Bon-Bon ,he watched the house when we would go places cooked ,washed the clothes ( by hand ) scrubbed the floor ..and he always said he was a nobody and everbody pitied him so one day I told him it doesn't matter what people say to you . You will always be number 1 in my book ..we had a good time ..Phil R.
Hi Bob,Although Brit culture is more Americanized these days,there are some interesting similarities with past english culture 1+2 +4. I am sure many Brits 50+yrs of age will know what i'm talking about.I was brought up in UK in a small town where in that time someone who was rich or authoritive was looked upon as your superior.You generally did not speak to them unless they spoke to you first.I remember one time i did a naughty deed in public,when my parents disciplined me they said "What will people think,it reflects on us that we do not bring our children up properly".If you had a bad reputation it could severely damage your career prospects if you wished to work in the community.It was very much a time where who you knew was as important as what you knew.In some respects it still exists,but is generally more liberal than it use to be,regards Chas.
Hi Bob,I agree 100% with your low esteem view of filipino's.It is worrying at times and will hold them back in the wider world,regards Chas.
One thing I will add; living in Katherine and Alice Springs the Outback capitals of Australia are many Filipino. About 10,000 permanent residents out of the Northern Territories 200,000 population. They have an excellent reputation generally; all work hard, nobody gets the dole or gets arrested. Filipino workers are prized in especially isolated desert communities for their ability to adapt to local customs and languages in areas where 90% of people are tribal aboriginals. Of course most are making more money in an hour than they could make in a day at home; thus they feel they have a huge incentive to stay the course, tolerating difficulty with a smile always ready.
Bob: you touched on a nerve here… I am always telling Becky that I wish she could see herself the way I and other people see her. I know it's cultural, and can't be unlearned, but I still feel the need to reassure her that she is a good person and my and everyone else's equal.
Great article Bob, reminds me of a time I was in cebu and in line at a hardware store, was 6-7 in line and the cashier waved me up front, I thought i did something wrong but she 'bypassed' me in front of all the pinoys becasue I was an american…once i realized what had occured i profusley apologized to the people in line I had bypassed, boy was i embarassed and annoyed. i firmly believe it is always best to be humble when in another country and this wasNOT the image I wanted to portray as an American.
In refernce to the kids and the sense of humility they are expose to is unreal. I have had parent s profusly apologize about thier childrens behavior whenin fact it was refreashing, one ice braker i use is the "give me a high five" when they do i always grimace in fake pain and say "ooohhhhh not sssooo hard """ and it always genrates a laugh and breaks the ice. I have often told my wife that the children are the heart and soul of the philippines for thier smiles transcend culture.
PS, Hey John….you need to post some maore articles…always enjoy your entrys!!!
Speaking of a lack of self esteem it kills me if you see a drop dead gorgeous Filipina and they will tell you they are ugly and not beautiful. First time I heard it I thought it was a joke then I came to realize they were serious.
More case in point:
A: Wow..ganda ng damit mo! (Wow that dress is nice)
B. Instead of saying "thank you" the reply would be:
"Eto? Luma na nga to!" ( What..? This old thing)
A: "Ganda mo ata ngayon ha" (You're kinda pretty today)
B: Naku..ang tumataba na naman nga ako eh!) ( What..I feel though that I'm gaining weight again)
A: Aba sexy ng lola ko ngayon! (Oh, 'grandma' is sexy today)
B: Aba lagi naman ah! (isn't the case always)
Ok, you know that "lola" (grandmother) is an appelation used loosely there. It may refer to anybody who remotely resemble a real grandmother. & usually, they are the ones who know what to do with compliments.
Hi rick b- I also like the good manners and politeness that you mention. I wonder, though, do you think that such manners are tied to the sense of shame? I am not sure on that.
Hi BrSpiritus- I agree hat I would much prefer an answer of "no" rather than "yes" when they really mean no. I would clear up a lot of confusion. And, to me, if you say yes, and don't do it, that is a greater loss of face than if you said no in the first place!
Hi aracir- No need to feel sad about it. I think that Rick is just saying that it is not what we are used to and requires adjustment on our part.
Hi Chris- Very interesting comment. Being a mix of two cultures can bring confusing situations like this!
Hi Phil R.- I like that, Phil, what you said to the young man. I bet it made him feel good too.
Hi chasdv- Believe it or not, what you describe of Brit culture 50 years ago is what American culture was back then too!
Hi chasdv- I totally agree about the self esteem thing. It makes me feel bad too.
Hi John Miele- In some ways I disagree that such cultured cannot be unlearned. Two examples. First, Feyma lived in the States for 10 years before moving back here, and she unlearned much of this. Second, our adopted daughter Jean. She came to us at age 7, and is now 12. Her attitude and personality are decidedly American now, just about the same as our other kids.
Hi brian- I often play those kind of games with kids too, and it really does help open them up. Another thing that really works is to take photos of them with a digital camera, and then start showing them the photos on the screen of the camera. That really breaks the ice!
Hi Ray- Hmm.. for a girl like that, it might be better if she thought she was ugly! If she thought she was beautiful, she probably wouldn't be interested in ugly guys like us, right Ray? 😯
Hi roy- Thanks for sharing those!
Hi Bob
Ugly guys like us? Speak for yourself LOL
Maybe it is just me but the girls that think they are beautiful and sexy I think are the ugly ones. 😀
Hi Ray- Well, I know I am pretty gwapo, but you… well… 😆
Hi Bob
I have no self esteem problem 😀
Hi Ray- I'm glad to hear that, Ray! I don't either.
Not sure if it is related to todays subject but why are most filipinos ashamed to let their children see them kiss? In the west it is OK for the children to see dad give mom a kiss.
Hi Ray- that's true, but I think it is changing.
hi bob,
I really enjoy your article today, I am a filipino and i am proud of it, i am proud of my culture and heritage, however, i realized that there are many culture in the philippines that is so backward (no disrespect) and it needs to be changed, I am not disowning my own kind but i am against the bad culture it practices.
just what you pointed with #1 and #2 these kind of culture to raise a child is wrong for me, i don't see a "doctor" a politician or a rich person is higher than me , I give my respect to them based on their character towards me and not based on their status in the society, i.e.being a doctor does not mean he is more rightful and must be elevated to a higher pedestal.
I don't know if you noticed this, in the philippines, filipino gives more respect to a doctor or lawyer than to an Engineer or a teacher, it seems to me that the addressing of "Dr." is much higher than the "Eng.", so i guess field of profession plays a big role too.
a lot of my friend is telling me that i am acting as i am not a filipino because i am going against the culture, what they don't understand is the meaning of "equality", just because i am poor i will let the rich to stepped on me (no way !), the only difference between the poor and rich people is the material aspect, i.e. money,house,car etc..etc..
Bob: you are probably right on unlearning this. What makes it difficult is seeing your loved ones differently than they see themselves. As I think about it, Becky seems a little more self-confident the longer that we are together. (Though she changes me, too!)
Dans, my experience here is more reflective of what you are saying; I am wondering how much regionalism effects these character traits? The magc words in English seem to be 'dignity (dignidad) and respect (respeto). I believe this is a common human trait: if one is treated with dignity and respect it it very difficult to then do wrong to the source of these.
I think a lot of people live lives beyond the comprehension of those of us fortunate enough to have had the benefits of ordinary western childhoods.
For many the struggle is as I have heard so many times "To eat 3 times a day." if they achieve this most of the time, they are winners; successful and deserving respect. Whether they are earing a handful of pesos a day collecting rubbish for recycling or they are doing well enough to put their children through an expensive education, I think peoples initiative should be rewarded with respect. This is where a point comes up related to western /filipino business practice and culture. Western business motto is 'Look for Opportunity and Grow'. Another Mantra "Get the Best Advice". We tend to seek expertise from those who are successful in what we want to do; whether they are neighbors or on the other side of the globe. From what I have been finding the norm here seems to be: pick up a key business formula from what you see everywhere in the RP and after talking to the family and friends, repeat it. When I bluntly state to those giving such advice that I want to do something completly original; I invariably get a blank look.
There is one thing America is heroic in it's business initiative. People pick up ideas and go for it, if there's a buck to be made there's probably a few million is a normal way for business trained people to think. We take the basics (3 meals etc.). for granted and invest ourselves in living our dream. Just another way things are so different here .
Bob, please tell us what Filipino response to your busness seminars has been? (probably an article there?)
Hi dans- I am happy that you are proud to be a Filipino – you should be! Don't take me wrong, I don't feel that anybody should be ashamed if they are Filipino. I am only looking at the differences in our cultures, based on study materials that were prepared by a Filipino, and trying to explain what I have learned to people who read this site.
Hi John Miele- I have written before, a long time ago, that when people from two different cultures get married (let's say American and Filipino as in your case and mine) – each couple abandons their culture to some degree. What happens, I believe, is that we create our own culture which is somewhere in the middle of the two. For example, you and Becky are just in the process of creating the Miele culture. I think it's a good thing. We Americans can pick up the good things from Filipino culture. The Filipinos can pick up the good parts of American culture. We can each abandon the things we don't like, and create a better version of ourselves.
Hi Chris- I think that there are, of course, slight differences in culture regionally in the Philippines. It is so in the USA too, and I feel confident that it is that way in Australia too.
Slight is an understatement I think Bob, There are similarities in cultures around the world; kind of natural law. But country areas have their signature themes repeated everywhere: distrust of 'Outsiders', intensely tight gossip networks, expectation of adherance to community norms. Cities tend to attract the ambitious, perhaps only to dream a little close to the 'Jackpot'. Herin lies the trap the Philippines can fall into if the status quo (the best and brightest leaving the provinces to go for a dream in the city) leaving the provinces without the kind of business minds who will really create a lot of opportunity. Of course many of these people wind up working in mundane call center jobs despite being qualified for all kinds of professions; simply because the money is up to double what anyone is getting in their profession. It's breaking this loop, or brain drain, from holding back the provinces that's key to getting opportunities happening: Opportunity being key to self actualization itself the key to high self esteem etc…
Hi Chris- I don't think slight was much of an understatement, really. When I said regional, I meant comparisons between one region of the Philippines compared to another region of the Philippines. When it comes to SIR, I think that it is fairly stable from one region to another.
OK Bob, I was referring indirectly to massive discrepancies in wealth in varying regions and suburbs of the States and Australia. This factor more than any single other dominates outcomes for inhabitants of impoverished areas worlwide. 1 thing the USA is famous for is modelling regional development. Australia was just staring to really decentralize manfacturing when a drought followe by the oil spike nipped this in the bud.
Hi Chris- Got you, Chris.
Kamusta Bob,
Another interesting look into the Filipino Culture, but it seems "almost" similar to the USA..in some respect…just the filipino people have taken it one step further.
What I mean about this is, growing up, with parents from our generation, we were taught to be polite, and have respect for our elders. But we were also taught to be individuals and to think for ourselves, and not be afraid to have ideas or dreams, and to speak our minds when it was appropriate, and also be "team players".
But the concept of teaching a child to be "ashamed" and to feel as a "lower" person in society, definitely doesn't conform to our way of thinking.
Thanks for the information Bob, I have a lot to learn about living in the Philippines, I am sure it will be an ongoing experience for years to come, and I look so forward to learning all I can before I get there…and of course after I am there….the "classroom" will really start for me.
daghang salamat ,
Danny
Hi Danny- I've lived here for almost 9 years,and I'm still learning. I think it's a lifetime thing! 😆
Hi Bob.
I have often wondered about this topic for a long time and my theory is that for years and years the Philippines has always been occupied by some countries who have impressed upon them their superiority over the locals. I only have to run to my high school Philippine History book (albeit full of inaccuracies) to see how very early on, the Filipinos (called indios) were made to believe that they are inferior to the Spaniards and only those who had the privilege of education were classified as of a higher middle class. After over 300 years of colonization from Spain, I can very well see how this type of behaviour can be deeply rooted in a society. This may be a shot in the dark and those who are experts in Philippine History can correct me on this but it's just my opinion.
hi bob
my husband and i have been married for ten years. he is american and he still can't get his head around things that i am ashamed of and its a given that he never will living here in the u.s. it makes me look down on american culture taught not having shame of situations and proper social graces crystal clear to filipino families and culture.
Low self esteem holds people back from attempting, much less accomplishing what they would able to if they believed in themselves.
Maybe the cheapest and fastest way to change the course, if it is to be changed is through the most used means of learning, whether good or bad, in the world.
"Television"
P.S. It passed encyclopedias long ago, especially with younger people.
Hi Bob,
I agree with Mia. There is a saying that goes – The Philippines history was 400 years in the convent (Spain) and 40 years in Hollywood (US). During this period of foreign rule, it was instilled to the population that the western colonizers and some educated class (illustrados) are the more superior group. Mestisas -mixed race locals -are also looked up on.
Being treated differently because you are of another race also somewhat applies in some parts of the US. My sister, her husband and son went to a small town in the Appalachians West Virginia for a medical doctor interview about 10 years ago. They were having lunch in a McDonald restaurant. A young boy was so amazed by their appearance (that of a different race) that he told his Mom loudly and innocently how they look different. So, I guess it also applies all over the world to be treated differently but in varying degrees.
On your last point, I agree that the Filipino culture is non-confrontational. We very much value what others think of ourselves and what we do and say. We want to please everybody. I guess, this is the main reason why Fil-Ams assimilate easily and be somewhat succesful in other countries as well.
Hi mia- I think that it is probably correct that colonizers of the Philippines had a huge impact on shaping the culture of the country today.
Hi maria- Our two cultures are very different from each other, and I understand your distress about that. It would seem that you and I are on different sides of the same coin. I am an American, living in the Philippines, trying to learn and understand Philippine culture. You are a Filipino, living in the USA, trying to learn and understand American culture.
Hi John- If such were taught on TV, and it was a US production, people here would look at it as "their culture, not ours" and would think that it does not and should not apply to them. There would be no Philippine production like that, because for Filipinos, they are comfortable with their culture and don't want to change it.
Hi Gerry- I agree with Mia too. I don't think that anything I wrote would be against what she says, they seem to go hand in hand with each other.
Hey Bob, I was not disagreeing with you. I was just expounding what Mia said about the reason for such a behavior towards foreigners/'westerners'.
Hi Gerry- No problem, Gerry… I understand.
Hi Bob!
Cold as heck here in the US. You probably don't miss that! I was wondering if when Marie signs her name in lower case letters if that is a sign of humility or just her way. I haven't asked her because I don't want her to think I am correcting her writing. Many young people call Marie Ate but I have always seen this as a sincere form of endearment in her case because she is loved by many people. I have a few of my nephews that I have regular contact with that call me tito or uncle. I was flattered the first time they called me this because before they were a bit shy to approach me. I noticed that some younger family members were shy to eat with us in the dining room of our home when invited. They would stay out in the dirty kitchen to eat at the table there. It surprised them when I picked up my plate and joined them out there. Maybe with time they will understand that I want to be at what they perceive to be their level.
Hi Tom Ramberg- The definition of "Ate" is a female who is older than the person who is using the word. For instance, a person who is older would never call a younger woman Ate. Generally, a person within a year or two of the same age would not call a person Ate. It is reserved as a sign of respect for a female who is at least a few years older than the person using the name.
As for the signature, I don't think that is a sign of humility, just the way she does it. I know that for my own signature, it cannot be read, so I'd hate to think what that might be a sign of! 😯
I have also experienced what you describe where most of the family will eat off in a dirty kitchen, or some other area where they cannot be seen. I have also done like you and joined them. In some ways (although I am not sure) I think this could be a bad thing to do. The reason is that they are showing you respect by giving you privacy where you eat, and you might be kind of rejecting their sign of respect. I can't say for certain, though. Maybe others will weigh in on this and share their thoughts.
I didn't mean teaching for the sake of teaching, or in a US style. I guess what I meant was if they had TV shows that featured Pinoys that were confident in themselves, either fictional families, or real people, such as Efram Reyes, Manny Pacquiao, and many others who believed in their abilities and suceeded.
My wife said that many people were afraid of failing, and she agreed when I told her that if a person fails when they have nothing to start with, would still have nothing, and the only thing they would lose is nothing, while if successful they not only help themselves, both financially and confidence wise, but may help provide for others.
Hi Bob, it really depends on how you look at it. I look at your definition of ulaw – "Ulaw is a strong sense of propriety". That is exactly how I look at it = PROPRIETY. For other who will give other definitions like "have very low self esteem", then you are looking at it from the negative side.
This is a tradition, and it does not mean LOW ESTEEM to me. It is actually a good way of teach proper respect. When somebody tells me "I look young" and I reply "oh it is just my makeup making me look young", I don't have low esteem. The other person and I know that I REALLY LOOK YOUNG :). But for propriety sake, I have to sound humble. Even Confusius' teachings deal with this.
So, don't feel bad. If the person really does have low esteem, I don't think this is the reason why. Some other psychological factors have to do with it.
Hi John- The funny thing on this is that there are such TV shows on the air, and there is a strong sense of nationalism in the Philippines. It doesn't seem to cross over toward personal pride too much, though. I agree with you, though.
Hi Ellen- Thanks for your comment. I want to point out first that the definition that I gave of ulaw is not my definition, but rather from the study materials in a book, which I was given.
I do see a lot of low self esteem in the Philippines. Certainly not everybody, but a lot. Now, what you say may be right that I am interpreting what I see through my own cultural filters, but there is no other way for me to do it. So, what is seen as simple propriety here may be seen as low self esteem to me.
I do try to shed my cultural filters and see things without that baggage. It's not easy to do, though. It often makes me wonder how people like you and Feyma, who have been engrossed in multiple cultures are able to filter what you see. I suppose that I also am going through the same process that you have, though, too.
Sorry, I meant to write your "quoted" definition of ulaw. Yes, this is from the study material meant to teach and make others understand the culture more. How one interprets it differently, i.e. as teaching low esteem, is a personal issue.
I don't know what you mean by " a lot", in comparison to where? who? when? My perceptions are (in comparison to younger generations now) that they are not taught much of humility and propriety anymore – our traditions and how I was brought up. But I still see those "low esteem" and fears.The family, the society and peers are generally to blame – how they encourage or discourage, how they "gossip" in front of children, social status, how men treat women, etc. Personally, I don't see anything different in other cultures when it comes to the reasons of having low esteem.
Frankly, one shouldnt look at this tradition as causing low esteem. The more one says so, the more the other party will doubt what is proper and think that it is low esteem they have. 🙂
Hi Bob – My upbringing was one that involved honor and shame as well as being taught right from wrong. There's nothing wrong with an errant miscreant being ashamed of his or her actions. Until the "self-esteem" bandwagon came to town, shame was a deterrent to wrongful or harmful actions. Crime rates were lower, as well as other social concerns such as the number of unwed mothers.
Once shame was labeled as evil, evil triumphed, imho.
Here in the north, shame doesn't impair self-esteem. Ilocanos are a proud and honorable people (also having a bit of an "independent" streak) whose self-esteem is never impaired by shame. They "know they should have been better" and feel shame and remorse for improper activity – and they'll proudly tell you so!
Hi Ellen- When I say "a lot" I was meaning just that… I see a lot! 😆 I guess to compare it to the USA, I would say that I see probably multiple times more low self esteem here than I did in the States. Perhaps it is just more visible to me here, I don't know.
I do believe that Ulaw causes low self esteem. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. When you teach people about a vertical hierarchy of people, with some people being more worthy or better than others, I simply believe that this promotes low self esteem. It may be that your way of looking at it and mine are different, but that is no biggie… we all have our own opinions.
Hi Paul- In my travels to many different parts of the Philippines, when I try to talk to a young child, it is pretty regular that the child will not speak. If I ask why they won't talk to me, the parent says that the child is "ashamed" to talk to me. Are you saying that is not a self-esteem issue? To me it is.
Paul seems to have answered my question on this being regional; I am living in Southern Zambales in a mainly Ilocono 1st language area. How Paul tells it is true for sure around here. People are definitely proud of who they are, they don't talk about it but they show it in their behaviour. I have never felt like I am being put on a pedestal as a result of peoples very good manners.
Bob, remember the effect of the 'Stranger Danger' campaign well known in the west? Is this a local version of it? I know I am weary of grown up men being overly friendly to children; I am not suggesting you were Bob, just that there are men who take advantage of children and there has to be some norm in place to prevent abuse of children.
Hi Chris- Wow…. things must really be different up north! You are saying that as a foreigner you don't feel that you are put on a pedestal? That shocks me, frankly. Even just this post is filled with comments of foreigners being put on a pedestal. Brian talked about being taken to the front of the line at the store, for no other reason than that he was a foreigner. I can tell you that when I go to the bank, they go and get me coffee or juice while I wait for my turn (I have never asked for it). If these aren't examples of being placed on a pedestal, I don't know what possibly could be.
I never heard of a campaign called "stranger danger" – maybe it's an Aussie thing. I do understand what you are talking about, though. When I am talking about kids being unwilling to speak to you, I have even experienced this with young kids within my own extended family, and I would seriously doubt that there is any fear that I am a predator among my own family members.
Hi Bob,
I couldn't fault you on your opinion about the low self esteem and the preponderance of it among Filipinos. Hiya or ulaw – the tendency to be overly modest or bashful, has been an integral part of our culture. But it can also have different meanings if used in different local settings.
1. The common swear word "Walang hiya ka !" ,"Awan ti bain mo!", "Wala kang modo !" (almost the same to : you S.O.B., you M.F.) actually means you have no manners, you are a despiteful person
2. "Mahiya ka naman" (translated : Have some sense of propriety) is usually used to anybody doing things beyond the social norm/ culture or sense of decency
3. A person who is "hambog"- pretending to be somebody else (maybe derived from the word humbuggery) can also be called walang hiya, mayabang – a person with no manners, a braggadocio, a crap
4. "Nahihiya ako" (I am ashamed, I feel awkward) – even though they should not. Most Filipinos prefer to be bashful because it is the social norm / to be modest
I believe though that the feeling of "hiya" is just an initial reaction to strangers especially foreigners. Filipinos are a naturally engaging people, if you only know how to break the ice.
Well Bob, as I have come to learn, and you always state, no matter how long you live here, we will never completely undersatnd the filipino mentality and culture.
At least you are helping.
Thank you Dom/Andres, very well put. As in lots of other Filipino words, there are several meanings to one word and it is how you say it that defines it. The word "ulaw" could be anything from shame, embarassment to propriety and being modest. Foreigners should understand this, be more open-minded and not look at it negatively.
Hierarchy in our society has been here since time immemorial. Not only here, but other countries too, i.e. China, Japan, India. If this caused low esteem, then we would have had low esteem learnt from our great-grand fathers. In fact, these countries are fast becoming super powers, and maybe there are lessons to be learned from them.
Hi DomAndres- I agree 100% with what you say, it is very well put and concise. It seems that you brought Ellen's opinion and mine closer together too. 🙂
Hi Ellen- Interesting, because previously, we were unable to see eye to eye on this topic. However, we both seem to agree with what DomAndres said. I do believe in in completely.
Hi Bob, I get your drift, but I really haven't had this experience. I have only been in a small part of the RP, my experience is most people are very polite; but I am yet to be brought to the front of the line or get freebies from businesses. I haven't seen the teatment I get in shops being different to how I would train people to treat customers myself in businesses I have run. I have been guilty myself of being particularly nice to some customers because they are Japanese or Dutch and in general these are the best customers for aboriginal art. I do need to get around the RP more for sure.
On the childrens issue; there have been campaigns in several European countries as well as Australia. I have some experience of what you speak of here; I think my lack of Tagalog is a major factor.
It seems that the responses to this article reflect people have very different reactions to the behaviour set you are looking at; depending on the environment we grew up in as well as opinion formulated later.
In the center of the debate does the different sense of priorities in the culture play a key role? Is this attitude and behaviour another example of reinforcing collective thought as opposed to individualism?
What is the ideal modification here? Of course there has to be a balance.
As a parent I think one should educate children in both collective responsibility and individual initiative. Too much of either results in weak personality or self absorbtion.
Really interesting how many feelings your article has touched on with so many readers Bob; Excellent work!
Hi Chris- It really surprises me that you have not had the "put on a pedestal" treatment. Honestly, it is one of the reasons that I moved from General Santos to Davao. GenSan is a small town, and I was pretty well known there, and the pedestal got old. Davao is larger, and it is easier to blend into the woodwork here.
Wow Bob,
You hit a biggie on comments. but I guess everyone here has a situation that falls into this article.
As you mentioned my last comment that I am the first foreigner you knew that worked as an employee. Well here is a story when I first started:
At the office, everyone called me Sir. I have never felt comfortable being called Sir or Mr. Linder. It made me feel old, even though not I kind of am.
I would tell everyone, why call me Sir,my name is Bruce. I would get the reply "Sir, you have a higher position then we do"
I would then say, "No, I am just an entry level draftsman and do not hold a higher position"
They then offered to call me Sir Bruce, or even Kuya. I said Bruce is fine.
Well eventually they stopped the Sir but even though I felt close to most of my co-workers, I still felt different. Probably since I was the second oldest in the office (the architect was 2 years older) and not a filipino.
The face issue is up again. I still do not understand the way a lot of Filipinos set themselves up for loss of face. They give bad info instead of not saying they do not know, or making offers or promises that do not plan to keep.
There is also the Filipino "Maybe" but that is for some other time.
Hi Bruce- when it comes to losing face, I believe the thinking is like this:
If a question is asked, to say "I don't know" causes instant loss of face, because you are admitting that you do not know the information that is being asked. Maybe this means that you are not smart enough, or well enough informed as you should be, thus you don't know the answer. However, if you answer wrong, at least it puts off the loss of face longer. It is even possible that the person asking may accept your wrong answer and never realize that you were wrong.
I could be wrong on that thinking, but it is the way things settle out in my mind.
Hi Bruce- Thanks, Bruce. I'm glad you fond the article helpful.
"You're still my idol," Pacquiao told him.
"No, you're my idol," De La Hoya said.
Manny presented a Filipino class act. You don't want to lose face but you also don't gloat and let the other guy lose face especially you just beat the hell… that face.
incredible fight, Manny and De hoya are BOTH true class acts…what a fantastic role model for sportsmanship !!!
Hi Dr. Sponk Long- It was indeed a great fight. Somehow, even though he was the underdog, I knew that Manny would in it. In the past, I have often been worried about the outcome, because I worried that he might take his opponent lightly, but this time I knew that he would show up prepared! Great fight!
Hi brian- I agree, both of them have a lot of class.
As Larry pointed out earlier, hiya or shame has its good and bad points. Most of the posts tended to focus on its negative points, so let me take the opportunity to take a look at some of its good points. This idea of shame is a means of getting people to conform to the norms of society. It is very common in Asia, Latin America and the Middle East. Have we not heard of honor killings (killing family members who shamed the family) in the Middle East? Some would be criminals often think twice about committing a crime for fear of shaming the family if caught.
When my family of ten (8 children) first came to the US years ago, we were encouraged to take advantage of the food stamp and welfare programs in the country. The shame of using food coupons to pay for grocery and visiting the welfare office to pay for rent was enough to force us children to work to help pay the bills. It drove us to work hard so that never again will we queue up in line at the grocery store and be looked at by people. These same 8 children are all college educated and are productive members of society. The liberals in the US successfully removed shame from the food stamp recipients by issuing them cards (like credit cards) that the store cashier swipes. This removed the stigma/shame and today the food stamp program is out of control.
Kids in the Philippines (true in most societies) are taught to respect their elders starting at a young age. Using shame to partly achieve the desired objective suppressies the individual's desire to assert oneself, but it does achieve getting the younger generation to respect the elders. Or at least it used to. It is shameful to not take care of the elderly in a society where there is no social safety net. It is not shameful in the US to be left in a nursing home alone where there is a government backed safety net.
While I value rugged individualism (I am a Republican after all), I also value respect and that people should be responsible for themselves first and foremost. If the use of shame is part of the equation, then the better.
Hi Aldel- Thanks for sharing that. Don't take me wrong, I agree there are positive sides to Hiya or Ulaw. Most of the discussion just focused on the negative, though. 😉
I just got around to catching up on my LIP reading and enjoyed reading this one!
I see the same thing as Ellen and Adel. There is a little something missing in the discussion (not really missing in the article) in the understanding about the words we translate 'shame' and what we see as 'low self-esteem.'
Ellen brought forward the word 'propriety,' and it is a good one! But it is also a word that westerners don't always relate to. In Filipino culture, it is unseemly to put one's self forward. To accept a compliment, to boast of one's skills, to appear very confident doesn't look good, and is discouraged as children grow up. It is seen as proud and lacking in appropriate humility or propriety. It does not always mean that a person rejects the complement, considers it untrue, does not know his worth or skills or doesn't value himself. Not at all! In fact, one may find out after getting to know him better that for all the self-depreciation, a person is actually quite full of himself and over confident of his skills.
A person loses face when he is made to feel small or low, therefore he experiences 'kaulaw' or 'hiya' when he is with a person of a higher social status. The person of higher status can set him at ease by treating him with respect, not by pretending there is no difference.
A person loses face when he is made to look foolish or stupid in a situation where looking foolish or stupid is not planned or acceptable. I feel embarrassed just watching someone sing badly with a karaoke and cannot bring myself to do it, but in that context, there is no shame because everyone just tries hard and people are applauded for good effort, not good singing. The shame has been taken away, so even poor singers are confident. As a westerner, I cannot feel/believe good effort is enough if it doesn't produce good singing, so I feel ashamed, too 'ulaw' to even try! This is a good example to me of how the 'can't measure up' aspects of 'ulaw/hiya' feel to Filipinos.
I hope this is a little helpful!
Hi AmericanLola- Thanks for your comment, it's nice to hear from you, as always. I don't claim to always be right, but I am the world's leading expert on my own opinion! 😆
I talked with Feyma about low self esteem, and she says that she agrees with me. I don't know, maybe it is not related to ulaw, or maybe it is. I see it as being related, but as I said before, I am not always right!
Hi again, Bob – I've discovered that a parent saying that their child is "ashamed" to speak are trying to communicate a concept as best as they can, but the concept isn't really making the transition from filipino to western culture.
I've found that children who wouldn't speak to me were not "ashamed," but were something else, among which are afraid, bashful, mistrustful, misunderstanding, or just plain acting like kids do to a larger, stranger-looking and speaking person. Just like American kids, it may take a while to win their confidence over – but it does take a litle longer.
My wife used to say that he or she "was ashamed" when speaking of a child's silence, but has since told me that using the word "ashamed" was a bit easier that trying to come up with a lesser-used or more-misunderstood English word.
I'm sure there are kids who'd be "ashamed" (in the literal, dictionary sense) to speak to a puti, but that's only one of those many emotions that seem to be conveniently explained that word.
(I come across "shameless" kids with hands reaching out for pera at Christmas time, asking for "their Christmas," this time of year! 😆 )
Hi Paul- Exactly, Paul! I have been wanting to talk about this, but I have been holding back to see if anybody else picked up on this. The word that is always said is that the child is ashamed, and that is why I would say that the shame leads to low self-esteem. If you are ashamed to talk to somebody – well, to me "ashamed" means that you think that there is something wrong with you, or you are not good enough. I have thought all along that these kids are not ashamed, they are shy, or one of the traits that you mentioned! I believe mostly that they are shy! Most kids are somewhat shy. But, I didn't want to bring up the fact that I thought that "ashamed" or "shame" is not the right word, because that would seem insulting. I do believe, though, that the wrong word (at least not the way that American English uses it) is being used.
Bob: an incident happened last night that caught me unwittingly. We were having dinner with some of the pond staff. One of the kids, a 2 year old was eating some noodles and a single noodle was sticking to his face. It was cute, and I motioned to Becky and let a short laugh out. The child started crying all of a sudden and really got upset. He was ashamed. He thought I was making fun of him (I certainly was NOT). I apologized profusely to his parents and gave him some ice cream, with Becky translating. Of course I felt bad, and I think the kid's parents understood (it WAS cute watching him eat). My point is simply that foreighners need to be especially careful with kids. His parents could have been really insulted and fortunately, they weren't.
One of the most interesting contradictions for me is how Filipinos will often agree with foreigners in conversation that many Filipino ways are bad and need to be changed, for example, they will say something like, “Yes I know its bad, I don’t understand it, but that’s how Filipinos are…” or something similar to that. I’ve heard it several times. However, despite these confessions of exasperation with their own people, Filipino’s have a such an impressive sense of identity as Filipino, to the point where a Filipino can go anywhere in the Philippines and even in the world, and, in talking to another Filipino, it’s as if they are talking to their own uncle, aunt, or cousin, just like all Filipinos are part of one big Filipino family. So I think they really have a great sense of pride in being Filipino, and I am really envious of that, SIR, that easy way that they can feel at home with each other simply because they are from the Philippines, I never had this as an American.
Hi Mike – I have often heard Filipinos say similar things as well. It is a stark contradiction, as you say.
Bob,very detailed & insightful analysis of this aspect of Filipino culture. I would like to tell a story that might not be a perfect fit here,but thought some might relate. 12 years ago,not long after my pinay asawa & I were married in Oregon, one of my brothers & a close friend showed up at our rural Oregon cabin for a few beers. My 8 year old daughter was also visiting. My brother brought a couple of bags of fresh Goose breast. My wife took them and rustled up some palutan sp?. Anyhow,my brother,friend,daughter & I were outside shooting the bull when my wife brought out a grande plato of palutan with dip sauce. My 8 year old daughter went for the polutan immediately. My wife told her in a nice but firm voice “The polutan is only for the men” My daughter looked at my wife like she was crazy as she ignored what was said & dug in to the polutan. Nothing else was ever said about the incident,but it left an impression on me.You see my daughter had never experienced any food being off limits based on age or gender. She just couldn’t relate at all. The guys smiled & had no comment. Actually,I like the cultural differences & don’t try too hard to over analyze. One problem my wife & I have had over the years,is she is relentless with pushing Philippine culture onto our marriage & only hangs out with those who stick to the Pinoy language & creed. At first,I appreciated this. But,after many years,It has become obvious she insists on me being a Pinoy in America. I have tried to convince her to move with me to the Philippines many times.There,I can adapt and become more Pinoy as I know I am very adaptable.The problem is,I can’t behave or think even remotely close to a Pinoy being raised & living in America. Similar to an American moving to the Philippines & trying to force his pinay wife to think & behave as a American.It just don’t work.When I’m in the Philippines,I only hang out with Filipinos & adapt to their way of life & thinking as much as I can. I don’t seek out Americans ever. Anyway,that is it in brief. Many of these threads I’m posting to are stale. I hope someone can benefit or at least be entertained.
HI Mitch – Thanks, I’m glad you found the article to be detailed and insightful. Interesting story of when your daughter enjoyed the pulutan! 😉
“My daughter looked at my wife like she was crazy as she ignored what was said & dug in to the polutan.”
I don’t know enough about the true relationship between your wife and your daughter, but based on your own words, I am inclined to think that there is more to the pulutan than meets the eye. I am inclined to think that a feeling of resentment simmering below the surface exists between your wife and your daughter. That your wife told your daughter that the pulutan is only for the men could also be interpreted as a concern that there may not be enough of the pulutan to go around, not necessarily an imposition of cultural values. You didn’t say if your wife offered the young lady other snacks, but the fact that your 8-year old daughter blatantly ignored your wife is, to me, a demonstration of disrespect for the older woman, who is also your wife.
Thanks for all of this ! I have been in a relationship with my asawa for 4 years and we married there 2 years ago.I have been visiting this site for a few years,even before i traveled there for the first time. After having a relationship for a few years i get alot more out of this discussion, my wife says “shy” and “maybe” and many other things that require me to pause and reflect what she actually means before responding. Its alot of work maintaining a relationship across cultures and many things there are frustrating to an american but i wouldn’t want to change a thing there ! i’d rather alter my understanding. it scares me even thinking of my wife becoming “americanized” I love her just the way she is and PLEASE don’t even talk about educating pinoys with television to cause change. its a special place with special charm ,it would be sad for it to turn into a “small america”
Hi Greg, unfortunately in the time that I have lived here, I really see the country becoming more westernize each day.