I started out to write this article because of an article I saw in the Philippine tar newspaper a few days ago. The Province of Alberta, Canada has a government team here in Manila this week briefing high-ranking Philippine government officials on Canada, Canada’s needs for skilled workers and to work with commercial employment agencies here in the Philippines to promote Canada as a ‘destination of choice’ for prospective Filipino OFW’s (Overseas Filipino Workers). Three things that caught my attention right away:
- The team was looking for as many as 60,000 workers … small in the overall scope of nearly a million Filipinos going abroad for work in a year, but still a non-trivial group … about 8 or 9 times the size of Wasilla, Alaska, for example 😉
- The workers they were looking for were not just nurses, and not domestic helpers … the list included many skilled and semi-skilled trades like construction laborers, welders and such … no four year degree required for many jobs.
- Unlike many OFW jobs, where labor contractors are involved and the worker often gets screwed badly … pay turns out to be way less than the OFW thought s/he was going to get, these were government folks with specific wage info. Example. Welder. In Canada, $13.5o CDN per hour, In Saudi Arabia? About one fifth that amount.
Then I was particularly interested by the fact that most of the other provinces and territories of Canada are mounting similar campaigns. Overall the country says they are short several hundred thousand skilled workers.
In particular I noted a lot of openings for care givers … for the elderly and the handicapped. There are trade schools right here in my province that prepare Filipinos for this career in as little as a month r so. In the US most of these jobs are being filled by convicts or work release programs or illegal Mexicans or even overstaying Filipinos. The US government allows easy work visas for, say, engineers from China, but for non-degree and vitally essential jobs like taking care of the sick, the door is closed. Americans, in general don’t want these jobs, or they wouldn’t so often be filled by jailbirds and TnT’s.
In Canada, care givers are recognized as essential semi-skilled workers, and the government of Canada seems to care a heck of a lot more about what will happen to the elderly, so they make a legal pathway to provide for both the care to the patient and an honest career for the caregiver.
My lovely wife and I discussed this article as I was planning it out last night and she didn’t seem very ‘taken’ with my thesis. Her though6t was roughly this … the Filipinos who go for the lower jobs don’t really look beyond traditional OFW locations like Saudi and Libya and Qatar, you won’t change their minds.
Well, I’m not trying to change their minds. I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind, actually. But I am making a shout out to those who might be supporting family members here in the Philippines, or being asked to help friends or family members get OFW work or even my fellow writing colleagues to give a little thought here.
I’m an American. Born and bred. I’m not trying to start a US is better than Canada or a Canada outshines the US battle. But if you look at the requirements for jobs (the US has the highest unemployment rate in years), if you look at the opportunities for immigration. If you look at the government supported health care for all in Canada versus the ‘hope you can pay, especially now that you are laid off’ situation in the US, if I were not already an American, and I was looking for a place with for a new life and an opportunity to put my family on a sound footing, I surely would take a very, very close look at Canada.
It’s worth a thought.
By the way, all comments are welcome but please … I already said I’m an American and to be the US is better, please so try not to just echo the ‘America first’ rhetoric, I would really like to hear from anyone who has gone to Canada for work as a foreigner, anyone who has a family member there, etc., so I can correct any misconceptions I may have.
I have not worked in Canada but I have worked here in the US as a caregiver. While I have heard of caregivers as TNTs, I still have to hear of caregivers as jailbirds. Are americans that desperate to find people to work for them? The reality is jobs are not easy to come by here( I'm in Chicago) so even if you have all the papers and qualifications, there's no guarantee that you'll find jobs. Senior citizens are scrimping by not getting caregivers 7/24. I know of a senior getting caregiver for 4 days only. With the rest of the week w/o a caregiver, she just have to manage by herself. What Alberta is doing is actually unthinkbale for the US right now given its present state of economy.
My family has helped send over a few to Canada – first as nannies, then now as caregivers. After 3 years work visa, they qualify to become immigrants, and are therefore able to sponsor for the rest of their family. Here in Davao, there is a big poster sign outside a welding school advertising overseas (Canadian) work for their graduates.
BC and Alberta are fighting each other for skilled workers. If not for the harsher clima in Alberta, it is a very nice place – rich in oil and gas. There is no provincial sales tax there too. It is however too flat for me, and there is no ocean there! 😀
Btw, another incentive given by the Canadians: Those who want to study in Canada (student Visa) may now work while studying. After 2 years (?) they will qualify for work visas, then immigrant status after that.
nice article, just an opinion, in america, the reality is america only wants the best, they would rather open the door for engineers, doctors, nurses (which by the way, they have plenty of that and a lot of them are jobless) but never for someone who will take care of the sick, just like you said, it appears to me that america care less for the their sick people who need constant care.
i've lived and worked in saudi arabia for nearly 8 years, there's a lot of filipino professional nurses here who choose to go to canada and demote their professional status to become a care giver, don't get me wrong, i am not looking down at the care giver, it's just that from being an ICU,CCU, theather specialist nurse down to care giver doesn't seem to be logical for me, why would a nurse who can practise their profession opted to become a "care giver" the only thing that comes to my mind is, the sound of being in "western country" like canada sounds to be good. is it that really good to abandon their profession? or maybe the promise of becoming a citizen?
i made a little comparison between a filipino caregiver in canada and a nurse in saudi arabia.
in saudi arabia, a typical nurse could get 3,000~4,500 saudi rials a month (equivalent to 1,200 dollars) the accomodation is 100% free, entitled to a fully paid 30 days vacation each year to home country and with a 2-way plane ticket free, the employee is entitled to an end of service benefits (ESB), a 1 month salary for each year of service. and of course a tax free
basically, a nurse in saudi arabia can take home the entire salary without any deductions, usually they would spend around 100~150 dollars a month for the food and for other things. a saving of 1,000 dollars a month is easy for them.
a friend of mine who went to canada as a caregiver, is now regretting going there, his basic pay as a caregiver is 1,300 dollars a month, he need to pay his employer 350 dollars for his accomodation and for some other bills, then he must pay tax too. at the end of month he can only save less than 200 dollars, the only hope he got is to complete his 2~3 years contract and get a work visa, the problem he is facing once he completed his contract is he need to go to school for another 2 years to update his nursing profession and take the canadian board exam, the question is, how is he going to support his study, his family backhome in 2 years time? even if he completed his study it will not guarantee him to secure a job as it will appear that he is not practising his profession for nearly 5 years?
my wife's close friend who is a nurse for nearly 12 years went to austalria, she became a dishwasher for 2 years while studying because her credential and experience in saudi arabia was "not good enough" or not up to australian standard and in able for her to work as nurse she needs to meet australian standards. lucky for her because her in-laws are in australia who can support her while she is studying, what if she don't have anyone in australia? after 8 years in australia she finally got her citizenship and last month she just called my wife and she is telling her that being in austalia or being a citizen of australia is not that easy, she need to pay higher taxes, her husband cannot find a good job because of the "Tall poppy syndrome" and sometimes believe it or not a racial discrimination. they are now in the process of living australia and moving to singapore to find better jobs.
@dans: Very interesting and informative comment, dans. Thanks for taking the time to respond in such detail.
I should have probably made it more clear I was not relaly addressing the suggestion to nurses. I beleive there are still nursing upportunities in the US, in fcat my Sister in law's hospital is still paying a substantial findre's fee/hiring on bonus .. (SIL is a single woaman, went to the US direct fron the Philippines 10 year ago and is now a US citizen and an experienced CCU nurse. But the US is a huge place and there may well be places where there is an oversupply, for sure.
I was aiming more at other skilled/semi-skilled folks who haven't had the time, the money or the academic ability for four-year or better professional degrees. Right now many seem to believe the only choice for an OFW is being a nurse or cleaning toilets, and I wanted t point out there is a lot in between those two ends of the career spectrum.
@Ellen: Thanks for filling in some gaps, Ellen. yes, the point was made in the artcle I mentioned that these jobs were true emigration opportunities .. workers who complete the contracts have the opportunity to stay legally .. somehting that doesn't happen in some countries.
And I didn't know about the study options as well, thanks. Transferring from student to legal immigrant status isn't am easy path in some countries.
Even though I said I didn't want to come off as a Canadaphile, I'll have to admit I have a much closer affinity than many US folks. For years I worked for NORAD in Colorado Springs and had the privilege of serving with many great Canadian officers and NCO's. Our engineering unit was always headed by a senor Canadian engineering officer, several of them taught me a lot. If you ever meet a real canafian engineer, s/he will be wearing a little plain steel or iron ring … ask them the story behind it, it's fascinating.
@roy: Well in Colorado Srings as one place I can speak of with authorty, a majority of nursing homes have many 'work release' prisoners on staff. I spoke wiht one nursing home owner about this and he said, very few US citzens ever applied for these hibs. In the 1980's wheh i first moved there almost all jobs were filled by Mexican illegals abut, of course, the INS now enforces the visa rules more closely so many businesses don't employ illegals any longer.
As far as caring about senior care? except fr those who are in the position of finding care for a loved one, I would submit that many Americans don't care, or seem not to care. Colorado has the distinction of a popular former governor, Dick Lamm, who, while in office, answered a question about the lack of elder care in the state by announcing to the media that "some people just have to realize they have a duty to die." I wonder where he'll spend his "golden years"? I'm spending mine in the Philippines, thank you very much.
hi dave,
i am an IT professional, i've been working in the IT field for nearly 21 years, i am still young and well experienced in different IT fields, data communication, programming, hardware and software. i am also certified by different certification programs like cisco, microsoft, comptia, despite my credentials and my experiences, my application for work and immigrant visa was turned down by the canadian, new zealand and australian embassy, the reason is my cedential is not up to their standards and i must take their own certification programs, i don't have trouble getting those, with my canada application experience, they are requiring me to pass an english test such as ielts or tofle, in australia the same thing plus i must meet their standards and in new zealand finding a job is difficult as they only accept those with the "kiwi work experience" so even if i can go to new zealand, finding a job there would be very very difficult.
there seems to be a conflict with what canada wants, my field of work and my wife's field of work is in their NOC list but despite of that we were turned down, their website information for me is "somewhat" misleading. and now canada governement team is in the philippines to promote it as "Destination of choice" for ofw's. I presented my degree, certifications, experience to them but i was still turned down and now canada is okay with someone who don't have a degree.. well maybe they only need laborers, welders or some job that canadian doesn't want.
with my personal experience, it is no wonder for me that being a nurse or cleaning toilet is the fastest way to migrate.
what do you think?
Hi Dave. An interesting topic. I'm born and bred in Canada but there's a "logical disconnect" somewhere to this "Canadian employment" story …I mean something is missing to the story (it's the second time in the last two weeks I've heard of Canada looking abroad for skilled talent!).
The reason I say this is I that I'm highly skilled, but was laid off from my Canadian job April 30, 2008 due to corporate down-sizing, and haven't been able to obtain another job since then (only two job interviews since April 30 and I have two university degrees, one in computer programming!). I can provide you a link to a specific job-board in Canada with 100s of very highly skilled people in Canada that simply cannot get a job!
My personal theory on all this is that employers are simply looking overseas to import the cheapest talent they can find (analogous to software-outsourcing to India). Canada is much LESS altruistic than it receives credit for, internationlly. Employers are just trying to get "the most for the least" – just good capitalism (no better or no worse than the U.S.)
Hi Dave, as far as I know, Canada opens up their doors when it foresees areas where they are lacking. With the baby boomers aging, I can see why they were and still are encouraging caregivers to come. My son has a degree in Computer Science too, and has a hard time finding a job in his field – but that's not a field where BC is lacking. He would be in a better position to get better salaries if he can hold a hammer. 😀 9 years ago, he would have been in demand. So, what I am trying to say is that one cannot compare apples and oranges. We cannot blame a job loss of a highly skilled person to the Canadian government’s attempt to lure "lower skilled" labourers. If there is demand for your skills, you will be hired. Besides, a company has to prove to the government that it cannot find Canadian workers to fill up the position before they will be allowed to sponsor for employees abroad – at least that was how it was done when I was there.
I agree that by offering the chance to eventually become an immigrant is something not too many countries offer. I've seen this in some countries we've been too – and in most cases, the OFW's hands are tied. The employers' attitudes are sort of "You better behave or I will cut off your work visa and have you deported". This kind of work atmosphere must be stressful for the OFW.
The people we've helped over to Canada were those who really had no chance of going overseas if Canada did not open their doors to them. I.e., One lost her parents at the age of 13 and worked as a nanny (no education)- she was able to move to Canada as a nanny and is now a Canadian citizen, sponsored her husband over, have a house and 2 kids. They are both doing well, working for a chocolate factory wrapping chocolates and doing odd jobs. They are not a burden to Canada – they are working and paying their taxes, not sitting around collecting welfare cheques. There will always be some abusing the system, of course, but there are plenty more that will benefit Canada.
I personally admire TNT's – they have the gumption which made America great! Better than the $850b crony capitalism bailout bill!!
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
@Ellen,
isn't it the purpose of provincial nominees so that each province can identify which field they are lacking? and the purpose of NOC is to fill-up the fields they are lacking for a long term solution? well, i even pass their point system and my field and my wife's field is in their NOC list, despite all that. still no luck for me, i agree to what brian said, it is difficult to find jobs for a highly skilled people, i also talked to a couple of canadians working here and one of their complaint is there is no job for them in canada, i don't know if there is any truth with what they said.
Hi Dave,Interesting topic,apart from having Canadian friend and a relative living there my knowledge is very limited.However i would feel Canada to be a safer place for Filipinas than anywhere in the Middle East where women are treated as 2nd class and foreign women with even less respect.I am always saddened by regular reports of abuse against Filipina's in the Middle East.I do not know the regulations effecting OFW but cannot understand why Singapore is not more popular,english speaking and short flights home.As far as Europe is concerned the doors are closing fast,employers must choose OFW from Eastern Europe first unless the skills are unavailable in Europe,regards Chas.
Dave, I live on the West Coast in the U.S. and have friends in B.C. and Alberta. I thought your article was clear and encouraging.
Ellen, I agree with your comments and analysis.
Gary, I couldn't agree with you more. Thanks for passing along the encouraging words from the Ellis Island, a place that all Americans need to visit in person and/or in spirit.
Keep up the great work, Dave!
RL Graham, thank you.
dans, I hear your sentiments, but I am not an expert on this. I think you will have better chances going in if you already have a company willing to hire you. I know Canada follows the point system, but you will still end up being rejected even though you have enough points. There are so many people trying to immigrate to Canada and I would think that the immigration office has to still be able to weed out those that have a potential of being a burden to Canada. This is why some still get rejected towards the end of the procedure when you think you have almost passed – i.e. during the interview, or after the medical exam. There is high unemployment now, same in the US and maybe Europe, heck globally! The whole economy may even stop, but we cannot stop the aging process. People still are getting old and they need care. If caregivers are what they need, you have better chances as a caregiver AND even faster if you have someone there who will sponsor or is willing to hire you. After 3 years, you are then free to become an immigrant and apply for jobs in your field.
Try looking for posts that nobody else is willing to fill – i.e. out in the boonies, Saskatchewan or even the Yukon territories. These are very cold places and not too many Canadians want to even go there. 😀 Good luck.
Ellis Island…now there's a landmark every American with immigrant roots should see. Those great halls, abandoned buildings and little rooms just speaks to you in a cacophony of voices from the past…you can almost hear them telling their stories. I never use the word, but that visit there was really an "awesome" experience.
Ellis Island also have a website where you can trace records of immigrant ancestors. It's fascinating and shows actual ship records with such information as the obvious stats and where they came from, how much money was in their pockets, who they were with, what address in the US they were going to. I found Dave's grandparents' records, dating back to when his grandfather arrived as a young single man with an older relative and the next trip he made with his wife who was heavily pregnant with Dave's mom. She was made in Scotland but born in the USA.
@dans: Hi dans. Please know that I am not looking down at anyone, including those who clean toilets. And I am especially not looking down at nurses. Some of this conversation chain, though, got started in some exchangees I have had regarding the thoughts a few have about 'emigration at all cost', even promoting becoming a nurse strictly to assure emigration. To that I say, why?
I feel strongly and will write more on the subject that many talented Filipinos are looking the wrong way. They have listened to too many folks repeating the sing-song refrain that a Filipino must emigrate because you can't make money in the Philippines.
I'm an American, but I am "married" to the Philippines in several ways, and this idea, frankly, is hurtful to me. I came here to live of my own free will and stay because I want to … and I've been amazed by how many Filpinos have asked me why, often phrased as "Ewww, you like it here" Why"?
I also submit, especially in today's world, that it is absolute nonsense, perpetrated by a government (and not just the present administration) who have given up on their own country and teach children from primary school onward that the Philippines is no good and people can only be a success by leaving. (yes I know this is hyperbole, but you have to admit there -is_ a lot of sentiment that echos these views)
For those who insist emigration is the only way forward in life, fine, but I know too many ways to be a success in the Philippines to accept this as my own mantra. I'll write more on this soon.
@Brian: Interesting thoughts. Some of them are likely very much on target. As someone who had his own tussles with the high-tech job market in the US I can agree that expereince and especially age are typically _not_ an advantage in finding a job.
Employers _do_ seek the best they can get for the cheapest they can pay … indeed to run a business differently would be to cheat your investors.
Many folks don't seem to realize that it is not the role of a business to make 'jobs' for people. If you could create the most ideal business (via a magic wand or something like that) a business would have _no_ employees except the owner, banking the profits. _Every_ job is a liability to a business, and of course this is in direct opposition to the needs of a guy who went to school, climbed the ladder and now has a family, a mortgage and finds the door slammed in his face. This is why I often maintain that 'having a job' is not always the best goal in life.
I've written also that the Philippines is rushing right into a mess with the huge government support for call centers … call center jobs mostly produce nothing for a company, They are a necessary evil in doing business. Most call center jobs here today migrated from more expensive environments and it is a law of nature that someone will always find a cheaper way.
Where most of those jobs will be in 15 years I know not, but it is unlikely they will be in the Philippines. I wrote recently on PhilFAQS about an irish call center crying the blues because a lot of jobs they had "gained" from the US were now being "stolen" by another country who was providing service cheaper.
The "owner" of the jobs was a Kuwaiti firm … they can 'move' those jobs anywhere in the world that maximizes their profit,, and one could easily argue that it is their duty to do so.
Life goes on, jobs don't.
Hi Dave,
An interesting topic and as a Canadian I can perhaps shed some light on the matter.
First of all no experienced Canadian welder will work for $13.50/hr since it's about half the going rate. Canadian employers would love to get 2 workers for the price of 1 !! There is such a shortage of workers in Alberta because of the huge oilsands projects that they can't get enough Canadian skilled labourers. Also many Canadians chose to get into white collar professions so this has left a real shortage of skilled tradesmen many of whom are nearing retirement age.
OFW's who work as caregivers and nannies are generally treated well in Canada unlike in Saudi and Singapore. The promise of citizenship gives them hope for a brighter future which is often not offered by most host countries. Most Filipinos have a reputation here in Canada as hard-workers who don't complain or make trouble. Some factories here try to employ Filipinos rather than Canadians!
There is a massive backlog of immigration applications from people all over the world trying to come to Canada. The government says it is trying to sort this out which means nothing will happen. Filipino doctors are downgrading to take nursing jobs here and medical technicians are downgrading to hospital orderlies or caregivers just to get here.
One problem is that people with high level qualifications are not allowed to work in their chosen professions without jumping through a lot of hoops and having to overcome various regulatory obstacles. The government doesn't tell new immigrants this though.
The free medical care here is a real blessing. Never having to worry that you have to chose between living or going bankrupt is certainly nice. However Canadians pay for it with higher income taxes so it's not exactly " free ".
Hope this give some insight on the topic.
@Ellen: Thnaks for a lot of good information. Indeed, one of my pet peeves is that so many countries do treat Filipinos and other foreign workers more as chattels than people. I saw an absolutely shocking story on "60 Minutes" last week showing (mostly Asian) construction workers in a middle eastern sheikdom being hearded onto buses at the wnd of their work day and drive mile sout into the desert to their 'free of charge' quarters … a slum made of steel shipping containers baking under the desert sun. Inside it was an absolute hovel … each man had less room for hs bunk than sailors on a war ship.
Believe me. squatters a block or so from my house living in 'barnacle' shacks leaned against the wall of a warehouse are living better than these men … and certainly the construction guys in my neighborhood who earn 600 or 800 pesos per day for honest work are better off. Knowing how to swing a hammer is an honorable skill … hey according to at least one book I have read it was good enough for Jesus 😉
Actually that show is what put me in the mood to write the article about Canada that got this very interesting chain going. Money is great, but to sell people into modern day virtual slavery doesn't seem a fair exchange. Not to mention the unmentionable … the thousands and thousands of young women who are illegally enticed out of the Philippines every year, supposedly to be domestics who wind up as enslaved prostitutes.
Somehow, it seems to me, that many of us have our eye upon the wrong prize. Money facilitates life, it is not the purpose of life.
@Gary: habnk you so much for posting that, Gary. I wonder, in today's world, when 'illegal aliens' have become the root of all evil in some people's mind (and speech) and people with names that originated inb countries all over the world now rant and rave about "immigrants" being so "bad" for the USA "stealing all "our" jobs" have ever even read those words … or pondered upon what they really mean.
I wonder how many have reflected upon how many of those prized "jobs" were made for them by the very "immigrants" of the past who now drive the financial engine of the country?
And in what Article does the US Constitution say, "oK, now slam the door, it's a closed club from now on"? "We who are "in" are "in" and it's our job to keep 'them' out? I don't recall reading that .. but then my retention is not all it could be.
@CHAS: I know quite a few Filipinos who work, or have worked in Singapore. I fact my across the street neighbor's daughter went ther to work a year or so ago and is doing well. You may hear less about Singapore when OFW subjest com eup because they do not import the large quantities of unskilled workrsthat say, Hong Kong or Saudi do. But plenty Filipinos do find work there, and the Filipinos have agood work reputaion as they do wherever they take work.
Also you have to remember Singapore is a tiny, tiny market compared to say, Canada
@Ellen: Thanks for the worthy words, Ellen. I was going to write several comments much like yours but you have said it better. I feel one thing we are misisng here from time to time is that having a degree, earning certifcations and gaining years of expereince doesnot mean nearly as much as proven ability to accomplish things. Many people looking for work in say "IT" (actually a name that is much too braod, no one can be an expert in all of "IT") might do better shaping their search toward a more focused target niche within IT. In my days in the US where I did hiring and firing of IT workers and/or reviewed thusand sof resume's as part of the government contract selection process, I tossed many a resume on the 'not for us' pile becuase the resume was nothing but a 'hey, look at me I am so good' advert.
People so seldom focused on anything they had done or hoped to do. The winners tended to be the folks who could make claims such as,:
"Took over a data communications operation and reduced annual circuit lease costs by 50%".
Or: "Decreased average web page load times by 50% while serving 200% more users in one year".
Accomplishments count much so more than qualifications … and also, in today's world, one had better "know web" and know it for real … I see many schools, in the Philippines and even in the US, still teaching the "glass house" IT model … it doesn't work that way anymore.
Yup yup yup. I have people come to me and told me they have Phds and MBAs, therefore they are best qualified. I have told them, I don't care if they have those letters tatooed to their foreheads, show me the experiences and achievements first!! This is why I prefer the type of education that requires you to work at the same time while studying. In Canada, this is what we call the co-op program. Big companies or government agencies register into these programs. Students take time off during their school programs to work for these companies, apply theories to practices, then go back to school again. If they are good hardworking and smart employees, they normally are hired by these companies even before they graduate.
There are plenty of people looking for jobs – those from China have Phds and remain jobless in Canada. A lot of them have started sending back their wives or children to China as they cannot support them back home. Dreams of "management positions" shattered, they end up working as janitors, warehousemen, kitchen help just to make ends meet. Btw, there is no difference in NZ. We were there for 4 years – some cruisers applied to become residents there – and mostly those who took jobs in construction, boat builders, teachers (for posts that are in the boonies), caregivers – got in. If you are over the age of 54, forget it – instant rejection! You will more likely become a burden to NZ than anything else – is their view on this, I think. 😀 But, the bubble has burst there too – so it will be more difficult nowadays.
hi dave,
well, i know how many people backhome or people from other countries perception about the filipinos working in saudi arabia, a lot of them would instantly think that filipinos in the middle east are treated badly, the thing is, there are approxiamately 900 thousand or maybe more filipinos working in saudi arabia alone, of course from janitors to managerial position, statistically, the number of cases of mistreatment is low but the media will put it on your screen as if the entire populace of filipinos are suffering from mistreatment, what you don't hear from the media is the large number of OFW's who are enjoying the benefits, the kindness of their employer, you don't hear in the media that filipinos here are treated nicely all you hear from them is the cases of abuse which of course can happen in other part of the world, poea statistic will show you that there are large number of filipinos family go to saudi arabia because their sponsors provide them with all they need, from house, car, education and benefits and all that for free, you don't hear that kind of story from the media. with your example of construction workers having a bad living condition in the middle of the desert that is very typical here particularly if the jobsite has a harse condition, would you expect their company to build a villa or a nice house for their workers in the middle of the desert? and the project will only last for a few months or years? most of their accomodation are just temporary and building a proper house is not an option as it will not stand in the desert condition, of course there are filipinos who are not lucky enough to find a good employer and that could be the same in other parts of the world. not all filipinos who migrated to canada, u.s. or any western country will have the luck to find better employer and job, just recently my co-worker migrated to nz he passed all the necessary points and qualification to go there, he had problem finding job for nearly half a year because most of the employer will only hire those with "kiwi experience" so what's the point of migrating to nz if you can't find a job? what is the point of their pointing sysyem if the employer will not hire you because you dont have the "kiwi experience", his experience and credential means nothing to them, isn't that a form of mistreatment? finally he found a job in a call center and now he is complaining that his work environment is worst than what he had in saudi arabia,
one of the main complaint of filipinos who went to any western country they will tell you that they are holding phds' mba or with managerial position backhome and ended up as janitors, laborers etc..etc.. i don't know what do you call that but for me that is a form of mistreatment and abuse. have you heard the website http://www.notcanada.com ?
@ellen, people with PHd's and MBA's for me is the best qualified people over people with experience only, not because of what their paper tells me, but because these people with phd's are the one's who study it thorouglhy, they study the inner principle and underlying theory, they study the building blocks
just an example, anyone can assemble computers from the ground up or can fix simple or hard computer trouble but that doesn't mean that a person knows how the entire computer works. i.e. the inner working mechanics of computer, how they are designed and the purpose of each chips or how those chips turned into a powerful machine.
it is like comparing a construction worker to an architect, would you let a well experienced construction worker who already build houses and buildings to build your house from the ground up without the architect? architect holds phd or whatever you may call it, construction workers don't, architect studied the principles, the underlying process of building the structures and designed them, construction workers just put them to practice.
in my field, i have met well experienced computer technicians (10 yrs or more) i have no question whether he can fix computer or not because most of the time he can, however, when we discuss on how we are going to design a proprietary computer system, he don't have a clue of what i am talking about.
Hi dans, sorry I didn't mean to undermine those with degrees. To restate, I meant that those with degrees mean nothing if they don't have the practical experience along with the diploma. I have met 'professional students" who forever are in the campus getting higher and higher degrees. Then they expect to have management positions right away the minute they send out their CVs. In fact, this was what I told my son who wanted to quit school and just work. I told him that education is important as it sets up his foundation on solid grounds. After that, he cannot expect to get hired at management positions right away, he must still work from the bottom up, gain his experience and develop his credibility with his employers.
Anyway, I don't have a Phd, but I do have my Masters + over 30 years of experience in my field. So really, I have nothing against higher academic achievements. Also, it is just not in NZ where you need Kiwi experience. In Canada, they expect you to have "Canadian" experience as well. The usual complaint is "how can I start to get Canadian experience, if nobody wants to hire me in the first place?"
Yes, I will not hire an architect straight out of school. And for the carpenter, he must know how to read the architect's specs and must have already touched several thousands of board planks in his lifetime before I will hire him – especially here in the PHilippines! 😀
hi ellen,
i am in agreement with you, i also encountered people who have multiple phd's and mba's but lacking of "real world" experience and with their stiff neck they expect you to put them in a higher position, oh how i hate those kind of people, anyways we should not also forget that there are companies out there who hire people based on their academic achievement and not based on experience, for sure you have heard of someone who has a degree and has been working with the company for ages but still ai a lower position while a newcomer comes in and no experience at all but holding a higher position with the company.
as for the "kiwi/canadian experience" in my opinion, that is another form of mistreatment or abuse, i said it because there are hundreds if not thousand of living proof and those cases are not reported by the media.
Hi Dave,Its a peculiar old world,i note some of the comments regarding difficulties for OFW finding work in some countries particularly Aus and NZ which kind of reminded of the Only european immigrant policy of the the past or is it still alive.Aus and NZ are recruiting hard here in the UK for skilled workers and have even reduced the criteria,age up to 55 in AUS and 45 in NZ,regards Chas.
Hi Dans,I agree with you regarding degree qualified people who walk into management positions with no real world experience,no common sense neither for many of them,i have had the most unfortunate experience of having to work with these sort of people most of my life,thankfully things are changeing in UK.I have one memory when i managed an Auto Service Station,the bosses son failed his law degree 3 times,the boss brought him into the business and asked ME to train him,he was useless.I told my boss" you expect me to train him so he can take over my job" my reply" NO WAY",i gave a months notice and moved on.Guess what,eventually this son took over the running of the whole business 5 stations,within 3yrs the lot went bankcrupt (when the economy was healthy) regards Chas.
@Ellen: I regret I have fallen a little behind on responding to comments. I can see, reading the ones that are waiting, that some are getting the wrong impression, so let me make it short and sweet. I am _not_ against advanced degrees. I don't have one myself and I have alot of respect for those who spent the time, money and effort to eran theirs.
However, I am shocked by the number of people who somethow think an advanced degree is a job qualification. This is nothing but nonesense, perpetrated in many cases by profit-making colleges.
If I own a business I have one duty and one only, earn a profit for my investors. An engineer, as one example, with a Masters or PhD has not one penny more value than a baccalaureate holder, or even an non-degree PE applicant by virtue of his/her degree.
If she/he can demonstrate superior performance, hey great, hire now. But to think a person somehow deserves a job more thna another becuase of a piece of paper? Indicates a basic failure in education … teaching people what makes the wheels of industry turn (hint … they are not fueled by sheepskin)
@Randall Jessup: Randall thnaks for a very thoughful comment, sorry I have been a bit behind on answering. I see no discontimnuity between expereinced welders getting more thna $13.50 and others, with less skills taking jobs for less. I see no discontiniutiy either with a company looking for lower skilled lower paid workers. Perhaps they don't need the top skill levels. You can teach a guy to make adequate very simple welds in an few days … but the higher skilled guy has spent part of a lifetime learning much more. Just as most of us would rather drive a Mercedes than a Toyota Scion, if your job is to run a company for profit it may be better to buy a fleet of Scions to get the work done. The right tool for the job, so to speak.
@dans: dans, thanks for your valuable opinions and balancing viewpoints. This is all going a bit off the track here. I started this out not to promote Canada per se but to awaken in a few people the idea that all decent countries, and I would certinly rank Canada as one of those, have opportunities other than those with 4 year or higher degrees.
A website called 'not canada"? Great, it is a free world, or ought to be. I have little doubt I could find plenty to put on a similar site called 'not Saudi', 'not USA', 'not Australia' or even 'not Philippines'. It would be a bit pointless, in my view.
_ALL_ countries have their good and bad points. If you happen to find a perfect one, please do let me know, I'll move there 😉
Meanwhile, since this whole thing got started on jobs, I've dropped this link before, but I would enjoy hearing your 'take' and others on it. http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/07/10-reaso…
@Ellen: One point about these illustrations. Even as agood carpenter is not likely to design a good house from scratch, a bad carpenter will ruin any architect's plan. In fact, truth be know, it is the carpenter who actually makes the thousands of little adjustments that even the best plan needs to make it actually work. Neitgher can attain full success withour the other.
My dad, who was not an engineer, earned his living for years with an engineering firm who specialized in construction supervision. The company had a large staff of guys like my dad, many tradesmen and/or practical engineers whose job was to make the on site decisions needed when say the plumber found that according to his plans the electrisan had already run wiring where the pipes were supposed to go.
For years my work with large IT contracts was mainly to field the calls from Thule Greenland or Diego Garcia BIOT and other far flung places asking .what do we do now, the engineer specified 50 hz equipment but the onkly power available is 60hz or vice-versa. Not saying the engineers were stupid or anything like that, but pointing out that no one can excell in a vacuum … in the real world it takes many skill sets working as a team.
@CHAS: Well certaibnly Australia operated under a "whites only" scheme for many years, as did, of course my own country, South Africa and many other nations. Certainly all are working to eliminate such issues npw, as we al should, but is there still some residual effect? Impossible for me to know … except in the US where my expereince lies … and we certainly still have a way to go there, IMO.
My sister moved to Canada about eight years ago and wouldn't move back to the U.S. on a bet! This is not to make either country better, but she has had greater access to health care and employment opportunities than she ever had living here in California.
My sister has hinted more than once about moving there. I briefly thought about making the move. There are certainly jobs to be had. She lives in British Columbia which is certainly beautiful.
If life had turned out differently, maybe… 😎
Hi Tom N, ahhhh beautiful British Columbia. It indeed is beautiful – the sea, the mountains, the wildlife, the clean fresh air. I certainly miss it. But it is just a hop over from the Philippines for me.
My sister ( from Iloilo) immigrated with her son and daughter to Canada ( Toronto area) about 15 years ago. They loved it there. Their only complaint is the snow and cold climate. Otherwise, they have good jobs and health care. Two of her other children immigrated to New Zealand about the same time and I have not heard of any complaints. My youngest brother and family immigrated to Australia ( Sydney area) about 25 years ago and are very happy living as an Australian citizen and has raised his family there without any complaints. One sister and two brothers stayed in the Philippines. They are also happy. I guess happiness is a state of mind not a place of residence or employment. My other sister and I immigrated to US about 40 years ago and both of us are also happy. But to me the Philippines ( my country of birth) is the place I really consider home. The province of Marinduque has captured my heart, soul and hopefully my ashes will be buried or scattered somewhere in the beautiful and scenic island of Marinduque, when the time comes….
I don't agree that Filipinos working in the Middle East especially in Saudi Arabia are generally treated fairly because there have been a lot of horror stories. Most of the Filipinos that do get treated well generally work for the medium to big companies or even with the royal family and their relatives. But the sad fact is that majority of the Filipinos there work for small companies hence the horror stories that abound. I've heard of too many cases of rapes, workers not getting paid, being locked up at their work premises during work hours etc. I personally know of someone who was beheaded because the employer and/or his son raped a Filipina garments factory worker and he was pinpointed as the rapist. He was beheaded and his family in the Philippines never even saw his body after that. Anyway, notwithstanding the treatment issue, just being unable to live one's life normally due to the harsh Islamic law and culture, the absence of pathways to immigration to unite with your family and the practical absence of rights of immigrant workers in the Middle East is enough to make people consider living life in the Western and or other affluent Asian countries nevermind if they have to live with all the other minor tolerable issues like taxes etc. IMO, not until you become a victim that you will truly value your rights and the opportunities for family unity that should be the overriding factor when migrants consider choosing a place to pursue their dreams. Man does not live on bread alone.
It's ironic that I discovered this website and that my wife recently mentionned this Canadian working program. I am Canadian and just like the US we need skilled and non-skilled workers in many fields. I live in the province of Quebec..yes the French speaking part of Canada. Just here in Quebec alone, we are in deep need of doctors, nurses, caregivers, skilled and non-skilled workers!! Our aging population just like the US is a major problem all together. Moreover, the construction trade boom is more out west than the eastern part of Canada. I myself am waiting to go back to school in construction. My wife wants to go to Alberta because it would give her degree (she is a dentist) a fair chance! Another point that I find true and this based on my wifes friends career choices: most of them are OWF's and are respectively in the middle-east or Australia. Most likely we will end up in Alberta or some other province around there. There is enough work to last for several decades to say the least. The oil sands will literally outlive me!
Alberta is really the place to be in Canada because there lots of work due to the oil and gas boom. When I came to Canada with my family, i knew beforehand about this 'Canadian work education and experience'. So i enrolled in a short course at BCIT, had my forklift ticket and WHMIS, put them in my resume but never put my degree in mining and work experience, because it just wouldn't fit in. After a few months in BC, we moved to northern Alberta, took up jobs related to my short course and ticket, but never stopped looking around for a break. Later took up welding at NAIT through study grant from the province and now works as an apprentice. I met many new immigrants from different countries, an electrical engineer from China, a physicist from Kazakhstan, a civil engineer from Chile, during job search seminars in Vancouver, who have taken odd jobs while trying to get back to their line of work. Canada (especially northern Alberta) is a beautiful place and the people are also mostly nice. There are lots of work as well, but prospective immigrants should have no illusions about what awaits them here.
@ Dom .. thank you so much for dropping by and for your interesting and informative comment. Yu pointed up somehting I see so often in both the Philippines and in the US … no one single resume or CV can really do the job.
certainly no one denies a person the right to list all their degrees and awrds … after all, they earned htem. Bt, as in your example, if a person wants, indeed needs) a job as say a forklift driver, then a degree in mine engineering won't help. In fact, it will hurt.
I used to review hundreds of resumes for workers on contracts I adminsitered. It's sad how many I had to throw in the 'No' box on my desk becuase the people, by their own stattements, would be so over-qualifed for the job they were shooting for that I couldn;'t, in good conscience, let them on the contract.
Overqualifed people are almost never happy, they disrupt the work constantly with their 'better'ideasand even worse, they often get into terrible personal situations with other workers, becuase they feel belittled by aking a job 'below their station' and often let the other workers 'know' they are someohow 'better' than the rest of the team.
Make your resume 'fit' the job you are shooting for is always my advice.