You know, over the years that I’ve been living in the Philippines, several times I’ve gotten into discussions with other ex-pats about where else we would want to live, if for some reason we could no longer live in the Philippines. It could happen, you know. We talked last week about the weakening U.S. Dollar and how that could cause some Americans to cancel their plans to live abroad. But, other events would be more likely.
What if the political situation here became very unstable? What if there was a violent revolution here? What if Americans (or whatever nationality you are) became very unwelcome here? The reasons are many. Some are more likely than others to happen. Some are unlikely, others are less unlikely.
If something like this happened, what would you do? If you are already living here, would you move out? It would probably depend on the severity of the problem.
As I’ve told my friends that I’ve had this discussion with (and I’ve discussed this with a number of people) that I really don’t feel a desire to return to the USA. I’ve kind of gotten used to the ex-pat lifestyle, and I like it. I sort of enjoy a “sense of adventure,” and I feel that living in a new place like this brings that sense to me. I don’t want to give that up in my life.
So, where would I go if I had to leave here for one reason or another? Julius has mentioned Guam. Guam is under the United States, administratively at least. It might be an option. What about Samoa, particularly American Samoa? One ex-pat I know always puts in a plug for Belize – he used to live there.
What are the criteria for me in choosing a possible future home?
- English widely spoken. Hey, I’m an American, and you know us Americans usually are not bilingual or multilingual. So, English is an important factor for me.
- Tropical. I enjoy the tropical lifestyle, especially the weather in the tropics. I don’t want to give that up.
- American-friendly or ex-pat-friendly. I feel very welcome here in the Philippines, and that is a comforting feeling. I wouldn’t want to live somewhere that I felt un-welcomed.
- Tax friendly. Here in the Philippines, as long as my income is sourced outside the country, I don’t have to worry about taxes here. I like that, and would not want to locate somewhere that would be trying to get into my wallet all the time.
So, any ideas of a place that fits those criteria?
What about you, if you needed to move somewhere else, where would you go? Back home? To another foreign land?
Easy….Lamma Island, Hong Kong. Dim Sum for breakfast, hike to Sok Kwu Wan for Seafood lunch, afternoon sleep on the beach, ferry to Hong Kong Island for dinner.
Hi Laurence – For me, Hong Kong wouldn't be a fit. It probably doesn't fit my English requirement, it's not tropical, and another thing is that for my taste Hong Kong is just too darn crowded! I want a place where I can have some places of solitude, just being at one with nature, etc.
Thailand, without hesitation
Hi Brian – I have thought about Thailand, and it is almost a match for my criteria. Only drawback for me is the language. It's a possibility, though.
For me I have thought about New Zealand, maybe Paulau, Also French Polynesia is an option as the money situation there is about equal to here… 1000 Francs is about $11US. What I don't know is the true cost of living there.
Hi Louis – I've thought of Palau myself. I don't know for sure, but I've heard that French Polynesia is expensive, but like I say that's just what I've heard. Never really checked it out.
Thailqand would be my first choice if I were to stay fully retired. I lived in Thailand several years (not in Bangkok) and if I were not marrie dinto the Philippines I would likely be there now. The political situation and visa-friendliness to foreigners, though, have deteriorated a lot. English is an issue but I still speak a lot more Thai than I speak Tagalog.
The only real drawback to Hong Kong is the pollution and the crowding. I seriously considered moving to Aberdeen which is a small fishing port on the opposite side of Hong Kong island from the main city. A decen apartment in a high rise there was available for about $600 US at the time and I really find English is no problem in Hong Kong … taxis for example are much eeasier to use in Hong Kong, much better English than you'll find in the Philippines, and buses actually have signs and a system that defines where they run. What a concept!
A second choice would very likely be Japan before Hong Kong though. I lived there 3 years and strangely enough enjoyed it immensely. Crowding, pollution and transportation costs are big drawbacks however. I don't speak much japanese, English is easy to get by on there (the japanese are reluctant English speakers, butthe average Japanese has 12 years of formal English education by the time the leave High school, so if necessary you cna communicate wiht pad and pencil).
I would have to work there, though. It's easy to get "under the table" work teaching English for $30 to $40 USD per hour however, but, even worse than Thailand, the visa situation is unfriendly … unless you score a formal teaching job.
I don't like living in the heart of a city but a Sotuh sea island holds no interest for me either … I doubt I would be happy even a place like Davao … seems to remote for me.
Anyone thought of Ireland? 😉
Hello Bob….Bill Huff here…………WOW..!!!….i do not even like the thought of "having" to leave the Phili. I have had many people here in the states bring up the same dilema. But seeing that you brought the subject up, what are your true thoughts of having something so violent like this happening in the Phili that would force Americans out…???….have you experianced anything, or have heard anything….or just plane feel anything that would make you think that this is a real possibility…???…and, if you loved the Phili, the people…and have family there, and would have to leave them behind, how bad would it have to get before you would leave…???….Unfortunetly, i have the kind of personallity that would stay no matter what,….unless i was dragged away…hehehehe….and would NEVER leave my wife behind. I have done a small amount of research on many of the other choises stated above…none of them has the cheap cost of living as the Phili seems to have, and none of them seem to except Americans as the Filipino's seem too……i have know idea where i would go if i was forced to leave…….back to the US i guess, and re-group.
So, let me ask you this again Bob…..what are your thoughts, from everything you know & have experianced, about something happening in the Phili that would make the Americans & others to actually have to leave…???…..do you "practice" these thoughts & possibillities as one would with an Earthquake, or other natual disaster?
Hi Dave – I would consider Ireland too cold and wet. I'm Irish too! 😉 Really, I like the tropical climate. One of these days I'll get you down to Davao… I really think you will like it more than you think. It's a City of 2 million people, probably more metropolitan than you think!
Hi Bill – The day is going to come in the Philippines when the Masa (i.e. masses of people) rise up against the Oligarchy, and when that happens blood will flow on the streets. The small group of ruling families that have money here will not just let go of that power and wealth. We've seen peaceful revolution here twice – EDSA 1 and 2 – when Presidents were changed, but what real change has happened? Juan dela Cruz is still poor. There are still plenty of beggars on the streets. There are lots of people who can't eat 3 meals per day, some can't even eat 2 per day. That situation cannot last forever. Will such violence occur in your lifetime or mine? I don't really think so. But, it could also happen later today, we don't know. I just feel it's always good to have a contingency plan in the back of your mind of what your next move would be. I am not trying to be an alarmist, but I just think it's prudent.
Hi Bill – I accidentally neglected the last part of your comment. The possibilities of an earthquake, a major volcano and such are fairly strong possibilities. Remember that the Philippines sits right atop the "ring of fire." Remember Mt. Pinatubo? Remember the big earthquake in Baguio in 1990? There are dozens of volcanoes in the Philippines. One could erupt anytime. Something like that, though won't force somebody to leave the country, though. It might force you to move to another area, though.
Keep one other thing in mind – it is not on the horizon now, but the day could come when the Philippines does not welcome us any longer. Let's say that some US foreign policy is a slap in the face to the Philippines. Relations could go bad. They could cancel our visas. If you lived in Tehran in the mid 70's, you might have loved the place. The Shah was very pro-American. But, when Ayatollah Khomeini took over the government in '79 (?), it would have been a wise thing to high tail it to the airport! Di ba?
Hi Bob…Bill Huff again…..In reading your responce, i could not help but think that what you said, and the reasons you stated that could bring such an act to occur, could actually happen right here in the States, or almost in country. The real shame, in the case of the Phili, is that this revolution would target us Americans and others along with the "thier people of power" that are the ones really responcible for the conditions that would bring such an event into reality. It seems to me that all you ex-pats really do love the people, and do much more good for these people than harm, although, i understand i have much to learn, i would like to think that i will do the same, and hope to do just that, and help when & where i can.
Hi Bob….yes…Bill Huff Again…hehehehe….my last post, #11…was writin before i read the second paragraph of your responce to my first post. It would have been much different if i had…….i guess as long as Human Beings can create power over the massas, none of us can really be safe as History roles along.
Hi Bill – Personally, I don't think such a revolution could happen in America, or would be only a very tiny chance of it. In the USA, almost anybody could become President, Senator, Congressman or Mayor. Yeah, it takes a lot of money, but funds can be raised if you have the right platform. Here, if you don't have money, you could never run for any office hardly. If you are the Mayor, and you think the opponent might beat you, you just kill him. That's how it works! Hundreds of politicians get killed in every election. When I post this kind of thing, people always respond "oh, it's like that in the States too." But, it is not like that. Politicians don't shoot each other. When the election of 2000 got hairy in Florida, Bush and Gore fought it out in the courts for the most part. Nobody worried that one may pull out a gun, right?
Also, if the lower classes rose up against the oligarchy here, I don't think Americans would be targeted. But, if you lived here during such an event, you are just in a dangerous situation – not because you are an American, just because you are in the middle of an upheaval.
Let me just say this – I am not trying to alarm anybody. I don't look for this to happen. But, if you look at other countries around the world, things like this happen regularly, right. So, if you are living in a foreign country, it's always just a good idea to have contingency plans. Just in case!
Bob,
You're making the incorrect asumption that all of Hong Kong is a crowded shopping strip. It's like assuming that all of the Philippines is like Manila.
Check it out: http://www.lamma.com.hk
Hi Bob….Bill Huff, yet again…hehehe…..i cannot help but agree with everything you said, you really do have a great in-sight, and your logic is magnificent…guess that's why you get the big bucks…hahaha.
Hi Laurence – OK, thanks for letting me know. I have not been to Lamma, so I am happy to stand corrected. My biggest problem with HK would be the weather, though. I like the tropics! 🙂
Hi Bill – The big bucks? Ha! Where to I go pick up the money! It must be piling up by now!
A few years back, I thought about living someplace exciting and still be able make a living…plus make my dollars go a long way. Buenos Aires was a serious prospect. I hear good things about the city and things are taking off after the economic crash last decade. cheap, vibrant culture, a wonderful proximity to other interesting places in the continent … AND modern enough for me to work on the net. I get to learn a new language too. But my wife thought I was crazy. One of the many times I've been accused of that. Besides, I'm not a big fan of the winter season.
Istanbul was considered (for only a very short time). A+ on the culture and history. F on the language barrier and population density.
Thailand was another idea I considered. SE Asia but not the Philippines (I'm Filipino and I wanted a different culture to experience). I'm pretty sure I'll have another candidate city by year's end. good thing I have my wife to keep me in check.
How about EAST TIMOR? small country, not crowded, VERY cheap to live. If you start a business there, they will love you for it. And you can speak portugese, drink portugese wine, visit Darwin – Australia for US$400 return, for bigger shopping or to see a dentist ect. Go by bus or boat to Bali. Pretty country and smiling people.
I think East Timor will stabilize in only a few years time, once the oil money will start to flow in.
Hi Macky – Haha…. you are a dreamer, just like me! I can remember constantly evaluating places where I might live someday, looking for that perfect spot. I quit dreaming about it, though for two reasons. First, I finally realized that there is no perfect place. Secondly, I found the place that is right for me, and I moved there! 🙂
Hi Philip – Hmm… East Timor? Wow, I don't know if I could live there! Based on what I've seen on TV, if it is accurate, there is not much there. Not much in the way of services or creature comforts. My impression is that life would be rather bleak there. Not much available in terms of foreign goods and such. Language would be a problem. I will say, though, that I've already been burned once in this discussion by believing what I've seen on TV and such, so I have to tread lightly here! 🙂
Good morning Bob. You today have found a great topic. I wish you could add a blog that just talked about other places as I am sure the readers have a lot to say on that topic. Here are a couple of places you and others might consider. Penang, Malaysia gets great reviews from ex-pats. If you want to stay in the U.S. but not really be in the U.S. consider Rota on Saipan. Close to Guam, part of the U.S., yet it retains some measure of autonomy. In fact I think its a place that Filipino passports are accepted for travel. Islands magazine's latest issue has a large story on the 20 best islands to live on for ex-pats. Penang was #1. Interesting also that they did chose a place in the Philippines to make the list. Not Cebu, not Borocay, not Palawan but Dumaquette. They had five criteria to determine these places. The number one was what they called the flip flop factor-think laid back life style. Dumaquette received 3 0f 4 flip flops. The other criteria were cost of living, english language, hospitals, ex-pat to local ratio and a couple of others that I forget. They were subjective in the analysis. They dinged Dumaquette for typhoons, road conditions, and politics. Overall though Penang and Saipan were huge winners. Others were Pico in the Azores, Gozo, Malta, Hawkes Bay in New Zealand. East Timor did not make the list. Ron
Hi Ron – Interesting thoughts on other places to consider! Penang sounds interesting. The only ding it would get on my list of criteria would be language, I think. But, no place is perfect, so Penang should get strong consideration!
Bob
Laurence says Lamma island, for an alternative and it is an interesting laid back location with easy access to hk, (used to go regularly for fantastic sea food) so i agree with him….but peronally i prefer Davao, i have been to penang too and was not impressed, Malaysia is great but penang was just ok, hiked up penang hill and that was great and good views, but looked for some nightlife and couldn't find any, people more reserved and less friendly than thailand and the phils
my alternative choice would be like a few here thailand but being married to a Filipina, well Mindanao is fine for me, can't see any natural disasters changing that or even bloody revolutions, like you say Bob it could happen but the people are too relaxed, even the people power revolutions were more or less peaceful which is a miracle for a corrupt regime change, lets hope for peace in the future
Hi Rick – Yep, I hope to stay in Mindanao the rest of my days…. I couldn't ask for anything better than that!
Hi Bob,
I agree with you, there is not much to do in East Timor. But for someone who is an enterprenour, this could be an answer. There are people who say that East Timor is Bali 30 years ago. But in 30 who knows where we will be.
Other good place is India, its safe good nightlife great food, but you have to swollow the Bolywood singing, and if you want a women you have to go through her brothers and her father.:smile:
Philippines the best. I am going to Dumaguette, was there before and loved it.
Hi Philip – Now, I am an entrepreneur. And, I can see that a place like East Timor would make for an interesting life for the entrepreneurial side of me, since it is virtually an untapped market for so many things. An entrepreneur like me could basically turn the place into an experiment in trying different ideas and such. However, the other things in life are not present, which would not make it an ideal spot for me. If it's to be compared to Bali, it's probably not 30 years ago, but 50 (or should I say 300) years ago!?!
Bob perhaps you can do a peice for us on the tax implications of living in the Philippines but commuting back to home countries, here in UK, you are allowed to be non domiciled if you are only in country up to 90 days a year, this means you can work, but you claim non residency.
Can you tell us what the situation is with Philippines ?
Hi Pete – I'll have to do a little research before commenting on that.
Hi Bob,
Its Philip again, You made me thinking. I will have to say to you, that if I had sufficiant monthly income, then Puerto Rico is definitavly the best place under the sun to retire or live and have rich and joyfull life.
And I am not kidding, please have a look at Puerto Rico, and I think you will agree with me.
Hi Philip – Maybe I just haven't looked into it enough, but honestly, Puerto Rico doesn't excite me. What do you think draws you there?
It's a toss up for us between New Zealand and the Philippines. Ex-pats can buy land in NZ. However, New Zealand is a hard country to get into and they don't favor overseas IRAs or other investments (they want investment in NZ…can't really blame them). Getting enough "points" to get in is tough. Younger folk have a great advantage. They only want you if you can speak fluent English, are a professional under about 50, and have skills and preferably have at least a 4 yr degree and working in something like IT, medicine, education, engineering, and bio-tech (no stem-cell controversy in NZ and they are recruiting frustrated scientists from USA big time to get out in front on this research). I recently read in NZ press that they are recruiting heavily from CA because the state has a lot of IT and bio-tech scientists and the people live a similar active lifestyle and have similar social and political attitudes (and this was out of the Prime Minister's mouth). The specificity and reasons, particularly social/political, surprised me. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised…Did you know they still don't allow our nuclear navy to dock in their ports? NZ has been downgraded from US "ally" to "friend" status.
If teachers want to go, they have a slight advantage — they need Science and Special Education teachers really bad. I teach with a Kiwi here on a three-year stint who said I could go anytime I want.
Trying to just retire there is really hard to do because they have universal health care for life and don't want to be saddled with a bunch of old and ailing folks who drain the system but never paid taxes into the system. Their system is a lot like France's, Canada's, and Britain's. But if you're 60 and can invest a big chunk of money and employ a bunch of Kiwis — come on over!
NZ is a spectacularly beautiful country, but politically it's not for everyone (this is almost an understatment). Hand guns are banned in NZ, while hunting rifles are allowed they're not a signficant number of guns and mainly exist in the rural interior. NZ has a staunchly left-leaning progressive government (could be recognizing gay marriage or civil unions very soon). Kiwis like Americans and view resident Americans as a novelty, but many are puzzled that Bush was elected twice (eventually this comes up). Americans make up only 4% of NZ immigrants. Their Prime Minister's biggest headline-news controversy is her motorcade speeding to an All Blacks rugby final (not her liberal/progessive politics). Taxes actually turn out to be less than what people in CA, NY, or NJ are used to – overall. Americans from low-tax states would find NZ taxes high. Yes, income and sales taxes are higher, but there are no property taxes per-se. It kind of washes out, and the taxes actually result in a lot of good services (like medical care for the rest of your life).
Incomes are about 50% of the same career in USA — except for teachers, who are paid relatively more compared to the cost of living in NZ (says a lot about a society). But NZ is not perfect. For some reason domestic child abuse is high and teen suicides high. I wonder if it's the isolation of the island nation. The country has very low unemployment. Only about 4 million people live in all of NZ, many times less than in New York City. I think sheep out number people 12 to 1.
Or…we can teach in the USA 8-10 more years and just retire early to the Philippines and live off investments and teacher pensions. A tough choice with retirement already a glow on the horizon.
Hi Jon – Wow, you've really thought this one out! You have some good ideas there, and I can understand why you are having a hard time making the choice between NZ and RP. For me, it's too cold in New Zealand, as I've said, I love the tropical weather!
Have you thought of going to NZ and teaching for like 10 years and then moving to the RP?
Good luck to you!
Hi Bob – Yes, the thought of finishing my career in NZ and then making the decision whether to retire in the RP has crossed my mind. Just a few days ago I realized it shouldn't be an either/or choice, because living for a time in both places would just enrich our lives even more. That plan would require researching what effect living in the RP would have on NZ teacher pensions. I've also considered retiring in the RP early and just making long visits to NZ as it would be easier to get there from RP, particularly if the new Davao airport has flights to/from Australia. I think you once described the RP as a great leaping off point to explore surrounding countries.
Hi Jon – I think that having a life in NZ for some time and teaching would be quite rewarding, and following that up with retirement in the Philippines! Wow, it would really broaden your horizons, and make you a well rounded person. I do have one caution, though…. I was recently told by a NZ expat that by living abroad, his pension was cut in half – that, apparently is a NZ Government policy for non-resident retirees. So, you might want to check into that and see if your teacher's pension would be affected.