As you can imagine, I get a lot of e-mails with various questions about visiting the Philippines, and also about living here. One of the most frustrating things to me is when somebody sends me an e-mail through one of my websites, and when I take the time to send them a reply, the message bounces.
I mean, the fact that I took time out of my busy schedule to help these folks with answers to their questions, then when I send the reply to them, I get a message that the e-mail address is not valid. It’s frustrating, and makes me usually feel that I have wasted my time in answering, or really even reading their e-mail. Some such e-mails are quite long. Some questions are complex, and require me to think for quite a while before responding, considering the possible ramifications of my advice.
The other day, I got such an e-mail from a fellow named Christopher. When I e-mailed Christopher back, the message bounced. The thing that frustrates me in this case is that I feel that Christopher is treading on some pretty dangerous ground, and could possibly be putting himself in danger when he returns to the Philippines. The fact that I am unable to reach him, given that his e-mail address is not valid, troubles me, and makes me worry for his safety.
Here is what Christopher had to say:
Bob, ive been reading your articles for some time now.
I am a 49 year old American living in a northern suburb to NYC. I am a retired cop from the suburb area job where I live. My pension is $72k a year plus free medical for life. I’m married with 3 kids. Girls of 21 and 14 and an 8 yo son. I am a American who was born in the Philippines to a Filipino father and an American mother.
I moved from the Philippines to NY when I was a infant so America is all I know. I married a lovely Irish gal who I assisted in getting her “green card “.
My dad has substantial property in Quezon City, Batangas City and Lobo. The property includes apartments in Quezon City, a strip mall on Rizal Dr in Batangas and an old beach front home in Lobo. He additionally owns farm property and quite a bit of other properties with value. The problem is that my dad is 85 and lives in NY near me. He has no trustworthy people handeling his buisness affairs and no close dependable relatives. It’s a given that he is being stolen from badly. The farmers on his property pay him by produce percentages which are always way below normal.
Relatives of distant relatives are living on his property for free and are taking advantage of him. My father says that his arraignments are “old -school ” and if he starts treating it like a business the people over there will be offended.
I just got dual citizenship for the Philippines for me and my two younger children (my 21 yo is too old to be eligible). I am considering moving to the Philippines to get our finances in order there but expect a lot of resistance (from squaters and freeloaders) and even goverment laws. My first trip to the Philippines may be this year but I’d be lost there, I haven’t been there since i was a baby. I’m sure that getting my dual citizenship will help to make sure i have the rights of other citizens but I still don’t know what to expect. I don’t want to arrive there with a cowboy attitude and jump right in with guns -a -blazing but i won’t be walked all over either. Can you give me advice on how to proceed and what i could expect for my 8yo boy and 14yo girl if we do make the move. Any advice will be appreciated.
Hi George,
Since I could not e-mail you directly, because the e-mail address you provided is not valid, I am addressing your concerns in this article. Firstly, for advice on your children making the move, I recommend that you read my article from last week, “Bob, Why did you move to Davao?”
Now, on to the other issued in your query.
Interesting story, thanks for writing.
I think it is possible that you are about to step into a very dangerous situation. What your father said is exactly right, when he said that people might get offended. I would add that they also may get violent.
I would strongly recommend that you need to understand the culture here before you step into the situation. If you don’t, you will likely say or do something that is considered offensive, and if that happens you may well end up hurt or even dead.
It is a touchy situation, and needs to be handled in a way that will not offend the people who are squatting on the land. I would say that it might be a wise thing to hire some local folks who have a better understanding of the culture, and also a better knowledge about how things are done here.
Good luck to you, I hope it all works out in your favor.
Any other advice for Christopher, readers?
Read one of your blogs on non-filipinos getting citizenship ie they can’t get dual. There is a Filipino organisation in Australia that seems able to achieve dual citizenship for non indigenous people. I am returning to Australia in 2014 and am hoping to get this done. If it is successful I will email you again and let you know the details 🙂
Hi Pedro – Thanks. I know of ways to accomplish that, but they are not within the spirit of the law, so I don’t promote it.
Bob,
Could you expand on your answer a bit? I was under the impression that gaining Filipino citizenship would not cause you to lose your (in my case) U.S. citizenship. That being the case, wouln’t you be a dual citizen? I do not plan on doing so, but I would guess other people may have.
Hi Mike – The Philippine Constitution specifically says that if you with to be naturalized in the Philippines you MUST renounce your foreign citizenship. The Philippine Dual Citizen law applies only to people who are former citizens of the Philippines. So, unless you were previously a citizen of the Philippines, you may not keep your foreign citizenship if you naturalize in the Philippines.
Bob
Maybe he should spend some time in the RP and see how these people are actually living then rethink his strategy on “getting finances in order” Perhaps he would realize it may be better to enjoy his 72K retirement then to put himself at risk. If he indeed has a pension of 72K I am sure we is not living the poor life.
Hi Neal – I agree a hundred percent. I think he should come spend some time here before getting too hyped up and putting himself in danger. If can live a nice life here on the pension for sure.
What a big problem..Thats incredible..I told my filipina wife about this..We had trouble to..We bought land off a philipino fellow but we had a section in the front of our house for a vehicle to park one day..The Ole Bugger put up his own Store there on our land.In the front..He just got out of Jail for the same stuff..my wife went to the Baranguay Captain and a Lawyer. and Surveyor..The Hut was removed..Thats our land..Its a wonder My sister-in-law never brought out her Pistol..Its good I was not there…Irish Ancestry and Newfie would make for a Bad Time..for this little fellow..Its best I just visit..My wife says that fellow Christopher might have to give the people on the Land a little area for each of them…My wifes father would have his Machete sharpened up if he was around when that Guy put up the Store on our Land…
I think also that he should come here to visit the place,but use his head in so doing.yes he could be killed interupting the lives of the squatters or the farmers there.He can live very nice on that pension of his ,i hope he enjoys his life.He also might want to consider selling the land which could be worth a small fortune.
Good morning, Maynard, hope you are doing well.
Yes, selling the property might be a good option to consider. The land will be worth more, though, if they can clear out the squatters.
Wow. Philippine property rights are very interesting. And I am not an expert, so excuse me if I talk like one.
First of all, Chris did not need to become a dual citizen because of the entrenched tradition of inheritance rights when it comes to property. Chris can own property through inheritance. His foreign heirs can inherit that property. But if any foreign ineritors/owners want to sell the property, it has to be sold to a Philippine citizen.
Next, squatters have certain property rights. So if you want to get rid of squatters you have to be very cautious, and diplomatic. This might include distant relatives living on property, and others who have been allowed to work, or administer farmland. If a squatter build a building on your land, you might have to pay for the building to get him off. Getting these people to vacate the land likely involves working through the PI legal system (talk with your barangay captain), and some type of monetary payout/compensation. It is not always easy to get someone to move off your land, even with an offer of monetary compensation, hence the need to be extremely diplomatic and work with the local community governance.
The common story heard in the expat community is about the American married to a Filipina who wants to retire in PI. They have a house built in the PI several years or more before they retire, and entrust it to the care of the wife’s relative (brother, sister,cousin, etc.). Because the Filipina wife is in the U.S., the deed for the home was never correctly recorded in her name. When the couple come to PI to retire, they are driven off, with the Filipino relative claming ownership of the property and threats of murder if the American couple try to take over the property.
So, Bob is right on about the need to work within the system (culture). That being said, there are ways to proceed. Find a trusted representative to speak for you. It is better if the representative doesn’t let others know that an American is being represented because of fee hikes. This Filipino representative can work to pay unpaid land taxes, and have the land title correctly recorded in your name. They can pay lawyers to help if needed. It is not uncommon for land taxes to go unpaid forever, so paying the taxes if they have not been paid helps to legitimize your ownership of the land. If you think you are going to fly to the Philippines and kick butt to get what is rightfully yours, you might be returning to the U.S. in a coffin.
I could go on and on, but suffice it to say that the first thing Chris needs to do is follow Bob’s advice by obtaining trustworthy Filipino representation that is knowledgeable, a good talker, and is culturally sensitive. My wife’s sister fits this bill, and is our representative in these type of matters. Good luck!
Hi Jamie – It is my understanding that only a very limited amount of property can be inherited by a foreigner. From what Christopher said, the land holdings are substantial, and I doubt that they could all be inherited.
Amazing, Bobby. I think your wife is right, he may have to give up some land to the farmers, that’s what is happening in Aquino’s land right not.
I think you are soooo right Bob. This guy is lost before he even gets here. Knowledge of the lay of the land is a must here in the Philippines. You can wind up with your head cut off if you are not careful. There is the right way and the wrong way and then there is the FILIPINO way. ha hah hah ah h a
You are right on, Bob. I hope he listens. Even Filipino landowners who know ‘how it works’ have a very hard time moving squatters off their land (they have to buy land and pay to move them to it) in order to use it the way they want to. There is the additional problem of squatter ‘syndicates’ who use the land reform laws to take land from owners, usually after they have made someone mad. The land usually ends up in the hands of the lawyers because the squatters can’t pay them in the end. Convenient, eh?
No, Christopher should enjoy his pension and perhaps arrange to enjoy the benefits of owning a house at the beach, but in such a way that it will make the people who know his father happy he is there. He will best be able to learn how to do this by living in a different area and learning all he can about Filipino culture and how to appreciate it.
Yes, indeed, AmericanLola. Moving squatters off your land is very difficult, expensive, and time consuming! Just ask John Miele, who has been going through a situation like this. It can also be deadly if not properly handled.
Thanks, as always, for stopping by, AmericanLola.
Right on, Bud.
Bob, Thanks for the tip about limits on foreign inheritance. I’ll have to check into that. It could definitely be a factor for consideration in my own situation.
No problem Jamie. Good luck.
85 years old…sell the property and wash your hands of the problem and retire…
Hi Larry – I think that would be a smart move. Cut out all the hassles, and enjoy life!
Sell the land and wash your hands of the problem…
I was told at a recent meeting that the politically correct term for squatters is ” informal settlers” : )
“Thieving Pieces of Sh*t” is the correct, appropriate term. “Scum” is also acceptable in certain circles.
Hi John. Just searched back to read about your experiences with the squatters. I can really understand your grievances! Wow. Hope it all works out in the end. Make sure you invite us to the eviction party! : )
Haha… I was expecting that sort of reaction, John. How is your case going?
Te judge ruled in Rebecca’s favor. In 90 days we can pay the sheriff to evict her ( about p20000). We will need to build a wall around the land at that time, too. The thief has an appeal, but Rebecca petitioned to have the venue moved to Manila in order to cost the squatter money to defend. The judge told the squatter in court that she long ago spent any compensation she would have been due. Y dragging this out so long and being so obstinate. The eviction should prove entertaining
If her appeal is denied, and the forcible eviction should come to pass, it would be a great loss of face for this lady, John, and I mean big time. There’s no telling what she, or her relatives, might do in retaliation. I hope she leaves on her own accord before the 90 days is up rather than lose face. But, given how stubborn she had been, she just might try to ride it out until the final moments, then leave before the sheriff gets there. In any case, expect high drama, but, hopefully, she doesn’t go berserk and commit “juramentado” right then and there.
Perhaps the barrio elder or a mutual friend could serve as go-between to work out an amicable exit arrangement for her for the purpose of lessening her pain and embarrassment, but above all, preserving her dignity, if that is still possible at this late stage in the game.
Ricardo: that is the plan right now. Needless to say, it is a small town… Everyone knows what is going on. The vast majority of people in town have told the squatter to just give it up. The original agreement with the barangay captain was pretty much public. Most of the neighbors feel she was being greedy and that she was unwise in rejecting the kaptain’s offer
Yeah, you had told me about this, so it sounds like things are still in the “waiting” mode.
Hey John,
I thought your mantra was when in the PHL, accept the culture or “get out”? This whole squatter thing is exactly why I would NEVER have my wife purchase property/house there until we are ready to move and are in-country to know exactly what is going on.
Brent: first off, I never “had her” purchase property for me. If you read the articles I wrote, I could not care less about that land. I cannot own it, nor do i care to own it. My wife purchased the land under her own free will, using money she earned as an ofw. She spent not a single peso of money from our marriage / household account. My concern is the undue stress this has caused my wife. My concern is that a piece of crap is essentially allowed to steal from her. I always advise foreigners to buy nothing here… Especially those who have never left the states before or who are buying for girlfriends / recently married. If we ever buy someplace to live here, that in itself up in the air, it will only be from a major developer like ayala or smc with no possibility of anything like this happening. This was a Filipino to Filipino transaction. I was 100 pct uninvolved in it. If a Filipino would have problems, a foreigner stands no chance. If owning land was such an issue to me then I would look somewhere I could own it legally, elsewhere of need be. That is not the case.
Exactly… I wanted to say something, but you are a big boy and can defend yourself. Brent, John had no part in the purchase of the land, it was something that his wife did on her own.
Bob… A big point of the articles I wrote was related to the fact that Rebecca DID do a pretty diligent due diligence prior to buying the property. The title situation in this country is often murky and difficult to sort out. In this case, the squatter is claiming a verbal inheritance dating back to 1953. Though Rebecca has a stack of documents, titles, and wills to he contrary, under Philippine law, the squatter can still claim some rights. That is why people advocating that Christopher fight this are dead wrong. It would virtually be impossible to fight this from abroad. I also advised Rebecca that she may be unsuccessful even if the court sides with her. (and she understands this)
The only type of land I would even begin to recommend someone buy here is something from a major developer, and then only if the foreigner understands that they truly do not own anything. How many times have you heard of foreigners buying something in a wife or girlfriend’s name and losing everything? The case I cited in he article I wrote lasted 18 years… But experts like Benny must certainly k ow more than the local courts, right?
Ha ha… good one.
One more comment. He may find he has a harder time because he is a Balikbayan; a Filipino who grew up overseas. There is the jealousy factor for having lived an ‘easy’ life, and the fact that he looks like he should know the language and know the cultural ropes, but clearly doesn’t. Filipinos general extant a lot more grace to those of us who are obviously foreigners and clueless. My observation is that Balikbayans tend to get the short end of the stick. One more reason to let his dad sell the property and then settle down in a different provence.
Hi AmericanLola – Yes, I agree, there is a lot of misunderstandings between local folks and balikbayans like that who have little connection here. Language and cultural barriers abound, and the understandings are on both sides.
Sell the land? No way Larry. I myself came here and built a little home in the Philippines and this is where I want to spend the rest of my life. It is a great place if you can understand the people like I do. I am now a Pastor here and spend much time with the Filipinos……God Bless……………………Pastor Bud
Go for it Chris!!! Time for you to whip things into shape and take what’s rightfully yours. Get these crims off your land before they take anymore off you guys.
Not sure if you are only joking, Benny. Chris is treading on dangerous ground.
I am glad to see Bob and others trying to wake this guy up. Having researched a number of murders of foreigners in the Philippines over the last 5 years, there are a few mistakes old school expats hear over and over.
A wise man once said that:
“A man who can control the tongue between his jaws and the organ between his legs, has solved most of his problems before doing anything.”
In the Philippines, you can land in grace and style and it’s like comin’ home to Mama. You got the right friends and do things with style and humility, respect, joy; the Philippines is a paradise of smiles.
Stumble in like a dumbo with a big mouth, tough guy, full of yourself, think you can do and say as you like just because you have money…. That’s how your mama gets the call that ‘They think your body may have been found, but we will need DNA…..”
Thanks for your vote of confidence, Freddie. I must say that I tend to agree with your thinking on this.
I hear you Budrick, I myself (wife and son) have land on 3 islands and building our house on Mindanao soon. But as you said your self Budrick “you can get your head cut off” and this man has not been there for 60 years and his dad is 85…sell the head ache of getting these people off…get the peso’s and buy nice little place for dad and have pesos in the bank…from what I read he has many propertys and a man of 85 don’t need the worries of that..he needs peice of mind and kick back and enjoy life…
I have heard this banter before about treading lightly so as to not upset someone who is and has been taking advantage of you. In this case, it has been years or even decades. The whole aspect of saving face for all in SEA is baffling and flies in the face of western logic. I have also heard this same story about squatters in other countries around the world.
The best way I have heard to handle situations like this is to employ (i.e. pay) the police to raid the property and oust said squatters, telling them not to return lest they would receive harsher treatment.
I really do not understand why foreigners in the PI, or anywhere else for that matter, don’t stand up for their rights and fight fire with fire. If someone is making use of my property and not paying for the right, then they are in violation of the laws. Perhaps some here might find some intestinal fortitude and stand up for themselves (and their families) by not caving in to the demands of some peasant that is stealing from you. Yet you fear reprisals in the night.
Hi Keyser – Obviously you don’t understand the laws of the Philippines. Squatters have rights here. If a person follows that path you recommend, they will end up either in Jail or dead.
Keyser, the problem with your logic is that the peasants (your term) far outnumber everyone else, and the local officials need to respect this constituency. As I noted earlier, squatters do have certain legal rights, especially if they have built lodgings on the property. Guns appear readily available in the PI. It is not as easy as having the Barangay Captain come in and scare them off. These police, who are actually part of the military, have to live with the locals too! Why should they put theirselves and families in jeopardy to facilitate a quick solution for an outsider? Your solution of using paid mercenaries is, of course, possible. But I would be scared to move into a place like that the was taken back under the threat of force. Karma might have that threat of force come right back at you, after you move back in. Better to pursue the legal route through local authorities.
The Philippine society is based on respect, especially respect for elders. I think the best solution is let your old father to take the lead of each negotiation, after all he knows the audience, while you’re a stranger.
Do not get into legal disputes. You will be drained to the last drop and this process will never end.
There are specific terms within the Filipino customs to determine gratitude or undying hatred, as well as in Chinese culture, which your father certainly knows and his audience as more advanced age also knows and that will be decisive in these negotiations.
After this delicate process I recommend you choose to retire to Florida with this excellent retirement, since the Philippines is more receptive to visitors than to new residents. Your children will have better opportunitys to study and work and you will make full use of your free medical care for life.
Also, because it’s hard to be understood that you will require the installation of a water plant at home, since the groundwater is polluted by dirty lakes and septic tanks unshielded. That is required installing a solar power plant, since brown outs times last longer than 4 hours and instability easily destroys the current electronic devices.
Your pension is extremely high for Filipino standards, you will be considered a millionaire and this will bring you a series of problems and hassles.
However, good luck in your decision, because you deserve after all these years in defense of law and order.
Always keep in mind that RP is still a non State of Right country.
Keyser, I know a lot of people in te Philippines who started off with this atitude. It does not last. The only foreigners I know who get away with being mouthy in the Philippines are themselves dirt poor, not pensioners or Balikbayan or FIFO. Do you get it? The price of safety is to respect the code, do this and you are in a very very safe part of the world. Showing yourseelf as an arrogant, rich, self righteous (“Don’t call him a pig! He’s worse than a Pig!) your life becomes worth less than nothing in a heartbeat. If you don’t like this, fair enough, for your safety and the betterment of SE Asia, stay wherever the hell you are!
Hello bob & Christopher
My first thought…he is going into dangerous grounds! An old school agreement is a good way of saying it. If they have been living off his fathers land for several decades, they would most likely expect the same arrangement from you. As for squatters, most of the regualr readers will remember John and his wifes situation with just 1 squatter (correct me if I am wrong there). Imagine having families of squatters on his properties. Yes, selling the properties would solve 1 problem, but would create a pletora of others..I.E legal, land titles, the bribes most likely asked from you and most importantly getting the squatters off the land to sell it in the first place. Very complicated situation if all of this is actualy true. Ingat everyone.
Hi Jason – You certainly, in my opinion, present it in an accurate manner…. and it is very complex.
THATS GREAT LARRY….ENJOY THAT FAMILY.
Hi Bob,
I once stirred up a hornets nest, got stung all over and was in much pain for several weeks. I was lucky as it could have killed me.
I think the main problem your emailer has is that the land is not his but his fathers. His father seems to have ignored for decades, and done nothing about distant relatives squatting on his land. Therefore, i would imagine the squatters have certain rights under PH law.
In some countries including the UK if you occupy/squatt on land/property for a decade+ without being challenged by the owner, you can legally claim the land/property as yours.
Regards,
Chas.
You are right on the spot, Chas. I couldn’t argue a bit. And, you are also right that the squatters have rights by now.
Had a thought on how I would really advise this character:
You know the story about the Prince who went out dressed as a pauper? To accurately gauge the situation of his father and his pending inheritance?
That’s what you need to do here. Deep cover.
First, you are in NY. You need a NY based Filipino contact of the same region/ dialect, who has been regularly back to the PI and has no connection to your family. This needs to be someone fluent and straight, and don’t expect them to do it for nothing. I would pay this person’s expenses and hire them to do a recon with me. Go to every length to not trumpet your arrival or announce your presence on this first trip. Just go over with a trusty companion and get a feel of the area and the people you are currently giving the amount of consideration due to a rat colony.
If this were me, I would go so far as to fly over with a guide/ (I could find a guide anywhere in PI having been there many times) then hire a trike for a month and go cruise the area’s 2 star resorts. In the course of this I would befriend a few people indirectly connected, enough to get the juice on what is really going on with the people living on your father’s land. You cannot assume that a 50 year old deed of title is still going to stand. You can’t be sure that someone hasn’t paid tax on any of these properties and satisfied the 15 year rule to claim legal title, making your deed worth toilet paper. You also don’t know if the people you are wanting rid of are extremely vulnerable economically, you also seem to not care. This is the main thing about you which sticks out as being a person who should, for your own safety, not go to the Philippines. You have to have some heart for the poor, without emptying your wallet; it’s a balancing act. You seem to see the poor as less than human, deserving less than human treatment. This is not a safe attitude in a peasant economy.
I think that most of what you suggest is reasonable, Freddie.
The alternative is to do the opposite:
write to the Barangay Captain, asking his recommendation for a site/ hall (gym) to rent for a homecoming fiesta. Invite him to call you reverse charges and be brief/ send a pile of invitations over and a bottle of $5o brandy.
Go over, make it a damn good party, roast a few pigs, let the people show themselves. Be prepared to walk away with nothing. Have some fun.
Bob: What we have learned about all of this squatting issue is that it is 100% politics. In a town like Abulug, virtually everyone is related, even if only distantly. What will happen with Christopher is that if he comes in highly aggressive like Keyser or Benny seem to advocate, he will quickly get the town ganging up on him. If the Kaptain or Mayor side with the outsider, they risk their position, regardless of how much money Christopher pays. What I foresee happening is that his bribes and grease money will be happily accepted, lots of promises made, and then nothing will be done (You can bet that the squatters will have the local sympathy against the mean outsider). Christopher will become incensed, and start shooting off his mouth. Before long, he will be either run out of town or simply end up in the bottom of a rice paddy as fertilizer.
In our case, evicting the squatter would be impossible from overseas, and is very difficult from here in Manila. Again, Rebecca is regarded as an “insider”… a town resident. We chose the legal route, and are at four years now. Yes, threats of violence have been made against, not myself or Rebecca, but her family who still live up there. Yes, it was tempting to arrange a mysterious fire, accident, or simply have a bulldozer come to the property. Would we have been successful? Possibly over the short term. However, I could not imagine trying to live somewhere under the constant threat of vendetta…. Rebecca and I KNOW, for certain, that even going the legal route, some form of retribution will be coming.
So, though I may have drawn criticism from some of the more retarded readers for my comment about leaving if you don’t like it, I ask, yet again, what are the alternatives?
1. Let the squatter stay and give up claims to the property.
2. Go the legal route, which will eventually be successful, but expensive and time-consuming.
3. Go the illegal route and be successful quickly, but end up with the whole town pissed off at us, and threats made against the family.
4. Don’t buy any land whatsoever except what is allowed by the constitution, and clear title
5. Live somewhere else.
I don’t doubt that at all, about it being 100% politics. If the judge ruled for Rebecca that makes one person happy… one vote. If he rules for a group of squatters, he may get hundreds of votes! Sad but true.
I go for #4 myself.
Every man needs contact with his own tribe. All expats know their best source of information is trustworthy, long term expats. To be an American Filipino in the Philippines, living on a comfortable US denominated pension,, you are in a tiny elite.
For instance the President draws a wage of $55kpa. Not being fluent in Filipino means you must have friends in a similar socio economic bracket, in your own ethnic group/ or you are on your own.
Or, learn to speak the language, which I highly recommend. 😆
I always believe in friendly solutions. Go there, talk, and make a deal. Payments or compensations, only after agreement fulfilled. If no agreement is reached, forget the question. The realstate market in the Philippines is frozen, will be very, very difficult to transform these properties into cash, fair value. Also necessary will be maintain constant vigilance on the properties, or they will be invaded again, and yet the occupants and the former occupants will work to devalue and frighten potential buyers.
This case sounds like Mission Impossible.
Reaching such deals, though, can be next to impossible in these land disputes!
In brief, here’s my advice to Christopher. Make sure your 85-year old dad has a will, and make sure those apartments in Quezon City and the strip mall in Batangas are covered. That’s it. I don’t know how many siblings you have, but these properties will be divided amongst you and your siblings, assuming your dad wills these properties to his children. These properties are the most important and have more monetary value than those lands in the province. Forget those lands in the province. Let your relatives squat there. Since they are probably paying the property taxes on them every year, just let them have it. You don’t have to do anything about the deeds of trust on those lands. Just let it go, it will become your relatives’ properties by default. It’s not worth your time and headache to try to evict them. You want to be in good terms with your relatives, if you should someday decide to settle in the Philippines. I am almost in the same situation as you. I have relatives squatting on our property in Zambales, but I have no use for those lands. Why not just let my relatives stay there? Besides, they maintain the property. We also have an apartment building in Sta. Mesa. This, my siblings and I keep.
I think your solution is wise one, Ricardo.
Manila playa, you are really becoming tiresome. Yes, Filipinos can be pieces of shit, too. No more or less so than arrogant, ignorant expat sex tourists like yourself, jackass
I know it will be a big relief for you guys when it is done.
Thanks for the advice Bob. Sorry my email address got bounced back. Just to expand on my situation, i am one of six childern ((at least was once a child)) who stand to inherit the property. We are all close and are more concerned with the squaters on the Lobo beach property and land relatives live on for free, we pay the taxes. Relatives i never knew and my dad only hears from when they need something.
Hi Christopher, I am really happy that you saw my reply to your question. When the email bounced I was worried that you may not see my reply.
I hope the situation works out for the best.
What is your collective experience in the Philippines? Having the tax receipts will secure your deeds, as long as they are legit, but enforcing anything is complicated, expensive and dangerous. Tread very carefully, being right on paper does not always indicate a win in the Philippines. Also you seem to have no awareness of the inequity of your position, which is the real basis of risk you are entering. Consider for a minute what a PNP with your years of service would have earned and what pension he would be on. Think twice before acting on assumptions, but better still, don’t act on what you don’t know.
In terms of squatters “rights,” would there be a distinction between squatters that were relatives and those that were not? With one being more or less difficult to relocate/evict?
Only in the sense that you would be seen as a bigger asshat if it’s family.
I would rather deal with a squatter who is non-relative. I would have no compunction whatsoever about evicting a non-relative provided I have an urgent need to reclaim the property, but I would do it diplomatically and in such a way that the parting would not elicit any hard feelings. Evicting a relative on the other hand is much more complicated. The hard feelings that it would engender will last forever. You will be seen as cruel and heartless, not just by the relatives whom you evicted, but by the whole barrio since you are without doubt perceived as well off because of your status as “Stateside”. How can you face these same relatives and the whole barrio when you go home for a visit? We have both relatives and very distant relatives living on our properties in the province, and they have been there for decades by verbal permission of our deceased parents out of compassion. Except for the ancestral house which remains vacant but maintained by relatives, we have no practical use for the other properties in various locations throughout the barrio, but they do. They would have no place to go were they to be evicted. To get stressed over relatives living on pieces of land in the province which you have no use for is counter-productive as far as I am concerned. I just don’t think it is worth my time and money to travel to the Philippines to evict them. Besides, they maintain the property well. They spray the mango trees and harvest the rice, and when we come home to visit in the province, they serve and treat us with the utmost respect – no doubt due to their long-standing but unspoken indebtedness. In keeping with my parents’ tradition, I have long ago decided to gift them the lands on which their small huts stand on, but without saying anything or doing anything. We’ll just let time run its course. The property that is off-limits to them, of course, is the income-generating apartment in Manila.
In some of these cases, the squatters make it where you cannot do it diplomatically no matter how hard you try.
Relative or non-relative, it would be the same, IMHO.
Seems like it would be worse with a family member. Isn’t there some cliche about fights within a family are always worse?
Could well be, Larry!
This reads like a novel by Francisco Sionil Jose!
Everyone has said “be careful” – if you possibly can, try to get on terms with the local political situation, from the barangay captain on up, through your relatives (those whom you do trust).
Who you know is certainly very important here.
John Miele,
John, while you and I have disagreed in the past, mainly over your constant whining and complaining about expats, your comment above takes my dissatisfaction with your writing to whole new level. the comment at issue is:
” So, though I may have drawn criticism from some of the more retarded readers for my comment about leaving if you don’t like it, I ask, yet again, what are the alternatives?”
Many folks worldwide live their lives with disabilities including some in my family. I STRONGLY object to your use of the word retarded in a pejorative and derisive context. A person of your education and sophistication should know better and therefore one can only assume you simply don’t care.
Step up, be a man and issue an apology.
From Webster’s:
re·tard·ed
adj, \ri-ˈtär-dəd\
: slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress
The definition is quite appropriate, given some of the trolls around here recently.
John,
Apparently you cannot debate an issue without resorting to personal attacks. A mature man discusses issues and does not launch a personal attack of name calling everytime someone disagrees. You simply cannot accept the fact that others have opinions which in some instances are just as valid as yours albeit different. This inability to lend credibility to differing view points limits your ability to be a well rounded writer and certainly limits your growth as a human being. We all learn a great deal from listening or reading differing opinions.
Let me pose a question. Would you prefer that those of us who on occasion disagree with you simply not visit this site or avail ourselves of the paid services on this site? If so, say it now and I for one will not make any more purchases or visit this site in the future. As you know the competition for visitors to sites such as this is fierce and I think I can fulfil my reading desires elsewhere. While I enjoy this site overall, I do not enjoy your lack of compassion or your constant personal attacks. The ball is in your court, say the word and you will have heard the last of me and others I presume.
I really don’t care what you do. Nobody forces anyone to read this site
Hi Bob – You’re gonna LOL at me. I thought landmines in Davao? There’s no such things here in the Philippines and don’t know anything about it anyway, but then I read the article… on like something different. clever! he he.
As to the land properties, My lolo once represented group of people who claims that they own large chunk of land somewhere in Rizal, Antipolo. So for landownership, if there are legal papers, those living in the land can be evicted even if they’ve been living there for a long time.
Ha ha.. yeah, Sugar, I can see how the whole “landmine” thing might not work among Filipinos who are not used to the way American slang works. Sorry about that! 😉
Hi Bob and all
I hope you don’t mind if I add my penny worth here, I read your magazine and find it very interesting and entertaining, thanks for that and to your many writers who also contribute. So here goes:
My Wife owned a beach front property left to her by her Father, donkey’s years ago, but there were “tenants” on the property who back in the old days had signed papers to agree that once the land was required back by the owner they would leave (of course they were long passed away). In the years that followed that family expanded exponentially, all living in under the same roof which continued to expand as the years went on.
She had to leave to work overseas during the Marcos era as she was a member of local government and was told to leave immediately or die (more or less). Anyway when I arrived on the scene years later I looked at this property and decided we could do something with it. Of course no way would the family’s leave at this stage without payment, which I reckoned was fair enough. So the deal was struck and it lasted until they heard what color I was, and then it all fell apart. The Barangay Captain, Police and others just did not want to know as this now extended family was of substantial size and their votes were not to be thrown away lightly because of some foreigner.
Anyway to make a long story short, we wanted the land back so we paid up. My reasoning at the time was those families lived there (albeit for free) raised their kids who in turn done the same etc. and it would not be fair to put them out on the street, plus we had to live in the vicinity and we also needed to hire people and who better. So I paid up and we all lived happily ever after. I would advise your e-mailer Bob to take the advice given here from your readers and stay healthy. Sorry for such a long posting.
Pirate.
Hi Pirate – Of course, your comments are always welcome, long or short. Thanks for stopping by.
It sounds like you found a way to make it work, you are to be congratulated for that!
Hi Pirate – Of course, your comments are always welcome, long or short. Thanks for stopping by.
It sounds like you found a way to make it work, you are to be congratulated for that!
Bob,
Commenting on something like this when you only know a part of the senario is recless. If this man Christopher is getting his duel to retake all of this land for his own personnel reasons? It seems to me that if it really bothered his dad he would of taken care of this years ago by himself. I can understand getting duel for inheritance rights. But these people have been on this land for years and even though it’s not right to squat he’s going to play hell getting them off. It might be wiser to reclaim what you can. And not risk his and his families lives by fighting the entire neighbor.
Ha ha.. you might be right that it is reckless, Bruce. I think it’s a good situation to stay away from!
neighborhood
Hi Bob,
I don’t have the years of experience living in the Philippines of Bob and some of the others here but I do know a story of a man I once met who is no longer with us.
In 1995 my wife and I were traveling the island of Cebu. We were traveling on a bus when a typhoon hit. So we ended up in a small dive shop in Moalboal, Cebu owned by a Californian and his Filipina wife. Great people who had us join a birthday celebration like we were a long time friends. We went back in 2000 to find that a competing dive shop owner had him murdered to eliminate the competition. Sad story but true.
Us Americans easily get caught up in what is right. At the end of the day it does not matter what is right or wrong dead is still dead. So it would be best to listen to some of the more logical advice here and stay away from the cowboy mentality that some of these ignorant posters here seem to profess. You would be best off to attempt to find a win / win deal. It may not come out the way you want but that is life.
I have know Bob for a very long time and know he would not advise caution without good reason. Best of luck
Hi Mike – Thanks for commenting! It’s been a long time since I’ve heard from you! I hope you are doing well.
I fully agree with you… it’s a situation to watch out for, not something to be taken lightly.
Sorry to hear of your friend in Moalboal! That’s terrible.
I always enjoy your point of view John M, and I can feel your pain. As I look into my crystal ball, I forsee squatters on my wife’s family’s land that will be affecting our future. The discussion we have had here holds a wealth of valuable advice of which I hope to someday take advantage.
I will say that as a retired law enforcement officer, I can see where he would want to go in “guns blazing” and take care of business. The first thing he is going to need to learn is that life, culture, and ways of the land in the Philippines is not the ways of the U.S. Remember, you ARE NOT A U.S. cop anymore. You are only a citizen, and will be considered a foreigner despite your Filipino heritage. Unless of course you also speak the language, which might get you a little further. BUT, I would listen to Bob and the others and lay low. Think of it as going to jail, and you’re the cop in jail now. Keep your head low, your eyes peeled, and keep your back to the wall and your eyes on the door. You’re the new guy in town, and you DON’T KNOW JACK!!!!
My wife told me her firends husband was killed because he was bragging about having won 10,000php in the lottery there. That amounts to being killed for about $138 USD. And you’re talking about what is probably MILLIONS of pesos, and possibly the only place these squatters have a place to live.
And… if they’re family, they will feel that they have aright to be there, and will be hurt on top of it. SO, it would be my humble suggestion to find a place to live, somewhere else. Get to the know the people and the culture more, and then decide what to do. If you find that it could be deadly to evict, then sell it. You’ve never seen the land anyway. No loss. It is going to be worth MUCH more than you father paid for it initially anyway, so it’s still more money in his pocket. And to be honest, as a retired cop, the last thing you need is to get right back into the B.S. you’re leaving in the United States. Cut your losses, sell it all, and find yourself the perfect home on th ebeach, mountains, or farm of your own and not worry about death threats… or successful attempts.
Long story short, you’re retired now. Enjoy it. If you want some stress in your life because you’re bored, buy some land and build a house. That project alone could kill you or end your marriage!
My honest and sincere best to you!!!
Scott
Good advice, ScottF.
Hanks Scott. I don’t plan to go there to make waves but i don’t want to forefit my beach front property either. Isn’t owning property like that everyones dream? The other problem is that I’m one of six siblings, all with the same lack of knowledge of local customs and politics. I wouldn’t mind taking a substantial loss to prevent headaches but i can’t make that decision on my own. And your right, i retired because I’m tired of the battles. I want to just settle in and relax.