Because of the fact that I have a fairly large presence on the Internet, I get contacted by a fairly large number of people. Generally, if you are a foreigner who is interested in the Philippines, you are likely to come across at least one or more of my websites. After all, I have literally more than 100 different websites, all related to the Philippines in one way or another. So, when somebody does a search on one of the major search engines, if that search is Philippine related, sooner or later they usually find me. Because of this, I get a ton of e-mails from foreigners who are coming here for one reason or another. Because of this website, I get contacted by so many people who have a desire to move here and live here permanently. It’s just inevitable.
I don’t mind getting such e-mails, I even value them most of the time, because they put me in touch with people that I can generally assist in one way or another. Sometimes such contacts lead to business arrangements where I can make a little money, other times such contacts lead to nice friendships.
One theme that I often get, though, from foreigners that I meet is that “I know better than the people here do.” I have gotten to the point that I just get so tired of hearing that. I’ve been around here long enough to have learned my lesson about thinking that way, even though I readily admit that I have had those kind of feelings myself in the past. Let me give you an example of something that happened many years ago.
There was a fellow who contacted me a number of years ago, I was still living in GenSan at the time, so it’s been at least 6 years ago now. I don’t even recall the guy’s name, honestly. He was interested in moving to the Philippines and planned to live in rural Cebu. He came down to General Santos to meet me, and to bounce a few ideas off of me. I was happy to meet him, and assist him if I could do so. During his visit, we were driving around GenSan and I was showing him around town. During the drive, he said something just out of the blue – “I’m going to come here and teach these people how to grow tomatoes!” I was kind of surprised, because the markets here are full of tomatoes.
So, I asked him – “what do you mean? They grow plenty of tomatoes here.” His response floored me. He explained to me that while they did grow tomatoes here, they did not know how to do it properly. He went on to tell me that in the market, many of the tomatoes were still green, very few were fully ripe. He said that if he was just here to teach the people, the quality of their tomatoes would go way up, and he would be rich! Hmmm… I wondered to myself… should I challenge his assertion, or should I just let him believe what he just told me. I decided that I had promised to assist him, and sometimes assisting somebody mean that you would tell them things that they didn’t necessarily want to hear, so I decided that it was my duty to tell him what I thought.
I explained – “Do you know why they pick most of the tomatoes while they are still very green?” He responded, “No, I guess they just don’t know that the tomatoes are not ripe yet.” “No, my friend, the reason is because most of the people here like green tomatoes! That is what they prefer to eat. Your ripe red tomatoes will not sell well in the local market, because there are only a few customers for them.”
I don’t know what ever happened to the guy, I lost touch with him. I doubt, however, that there is a barangay in rural Cebu where all the local folks are eating ripe red tomatoes these days! More likely, my friend has either moved on to some other kind of business, or even more likely he has gone back to the States by now.
The lesson here is that the way we (Westerners) do things is not always right. Maybe it is right for us – for you and for me. But, that doesn’t mean that it is right for Filipinos. We are living here in the Philippines, their country, and we can’t presume that we will come here and change 80 million people to start doing things our way. More likely it is us who will need to adjust. But, hey, when it comes to tomatoes, there are enough red ones in the market that you can still enjoy doing it your way, and let everybody else do it the way that they like!
Hahaha the guy didn't know that not every household in the Phils owned a refrigerator to put their red tomatoes in, Bob!
You know, Jul, that was a flash of wisdom! I did not even think of that. I was just thinking to myself, that personally, I do prefer ripe tomatoes, wherever I maybe! And my analytical mind started going into gear, "now why would people really want green tomatoes??" HaHa.
I tell you, though, I did enjoy looking at the picture. Thank you, Bob, that was a good way ot raising awareness about the issue of integration into a new culture. Talk about tomatoes. Very clever. You are right, Bob. There are enough ripe/green tomatoes to make everyone happy. No one need to change ๐
Great advice, Bob. Although I haven't lived here nearly as long as you I have been dealing with exactly the same sort of misguided individuals and the same sort of "right way, wrong way and _my_ way" folks for a similar amount of time.
It's the number one way I've seen to set one's self up for failure … or, at least, a lot of unnecessary heartache when making a move to the Philippines.
I'd be a much richer man if I had a dollar for every foreigner I've had tell me, "I know how to xyz and I'm going to teach "them" how to do xyz right." (substitute for xyz anything from raising tomatoes to plumbing to computer IT management and everything you cna think of in between).
The facts are you may (or may not) know more about doing xyz than many Filipinos, but it may well be the case that no one cares. If you show up with the attitude of "I'm smart and 'they" are dumb" you are going to, even unconsciously, leave a bad taste in people's mouths and you certainly aren't going to make the friends and contacts that business is dependent upon here.
Secondly, you _don't_ always "know better". You know differently than how things are done here, in some cases, but "different" is only better some of the time. If you sit back, observe and ask questions you'll find that a whole lot of technical and business processes here in the Philippines work very well. There are some very intelligent process going on at times that seem 'dumb" because us foreighers don't always understand the history and the "whys and wherefores".
And even if you do know a demonstrably superior way to get something done, no one really wanst to know unless they ask for your help. So move very carefully in the "I'll show them" area. You could be so smart that you make yourself look dumb.
The Philippines is not for everyone. You must come here prepared to change to suit the way things are done here, because things here are not going to chnage to accommodate you, "better way" ot "no better way".
Touch down Dave. The best words of wisdom I have ever read here. It should be documented as on of the ten commandments on living in the Philippines.
Bob,
And since you have lived in the South, maybe you can show them "Fried Green Tomatoes. :lol::lol:
Just joking, but with a good cook, yummy
When I went on vacation to Spain in 1968 with my parents it was also 1 of the first things we noticed. All the tomatos sold in the market were green. Now it's changed, probably because of all the tourist but 40 years ago it was the same in Spain.
Hi Angie:
Even in the States I tend to choose tomatoes and bananas in varying degree of ripeness. My husband was more often confused why I had that tendency–he too likes red tomatoes, BTW. I explained to him that when I went marketing my mind had to make an "estimate" as to the exact time the fruits would ripe and not hopefully rot before use since we didn't have refrigerator when I was growing up. "Pick some green ones !", my mother's endless reminder , the moment I headed out to the market with my rattan basket or burlap sack many, many moons ago. :lol::wink:
Yes I always thought "green eggs and spam, Sam I am" was a made up line to rhyme by Dr Seuss, but after being given a black hen that lays blue eggs, then green eggs could well be a possibility and what we thing we know isn't always necessarily so. I mean to say western people can't believe people would eat Durian based on what they have been told about the smell. Being judgemental is a weakness of the human nature.
Jul is most likely right. Hehe. Sometimes my family prefer green tomatoes. I do have no preference to any color (barring any other color of course other than green, yellow, or red). Moreso, red ripe tomatoes could easily spoil when stored unlike green tomatoes (as mentioned by Jul).
Good thing you can be a tutor on other foreigners visiting here about our Philippine culture. ๐
Hi Jul – I didn't even think about the refrigerator aspect! Thanks for giving me another angle to look at. But, I do see a lot of people here who enjoy eating the green tomatoes, and also why they like to buy green tomatoes is beside the point anyway, the fact is that they do buy them, so regardless of the reason, my friend would not be moving in the right direction! Thanks for that jul!
Hi angie – Glad you enjoyed the photo! Yes, it is clear in the photo that regardless of just how you enjoy your tomatoes, the type you like can be found in the market! All types are available!
Hi Dave Starr – Good analysis, thank you for that. Nobody likes a person who is an expert about everything!
Hi Bruce – To be honest, I've never seen the movie! ๐ณ
Hi Luc – That's interesting! I've never been to Spain before, and I didn't realize about that!
Hi jul (again) – Interesting, so you would choose tomatoes of varying degrees of ripeness, so that when you were ready to use them, there would be one that was just right for you! Great strategy!
Well you have to laugh. I put my comment on and then go back to the front page. Guess what the advertisement was for ….. yup "Fried green tomatoes". Now that does just make you wonder who is watching. Maybe if I speak more about blue eggs there might be an advertisement pop up for hens for sale . Ha
Hi Richard – Hmm… I never heard of blue eggs! That's kind of fascinating! I do like your line, though, that "being judgmental is a weakness of human nature." That is something that is always good to keep in mind!
Hi Jio – Thanks for your kind words! I never set out to be a tutor like that, but if what I say is helpful to others, I am happy about that.
Hi Richard – Yep, you have to laugh at some of the ads that are popping up on this subject! I just saw some for onion seeds and for canned tomatoes!
Yes, when we first came here, I wondered why it seemed like all the tomatoes were green! But I could usually get redish ones if we looked. Back them, petchay was our lettuce substitute, so salads with shredded petchay, cucumbers and diced green tomatoes were the best we could do, and I did not find it very satisfactory.
I also wondered why tomatoes were small and hard. One year I brought back seeds from the States so I could grow 'real' tomatoes. I tried to get the ones that were resistant to everything and could grow in the South. I also brought back zuchinni seeds. I made a raised garden and babied them! I got nice big vines, plenty of blossoms and finally about three beefsteak tomatoes! And that was it. Those plants were attacked by every tomatoe virus, smut, mold and bug known to man, and the zuchinni plants dropped their flowers while the leaves molded. Sigh. Years of experience has taught people what will grow well here, as well as when to pick them! I just had to find out for myself!
Never even occured to me that tomatoes looked different back home. I always thought the green and reds looked great with sili and toyo. My dad always did this and it was second nature to me and I acquired the habit.
Here in the US, green tomatoes meant "not yet ripe" to me…and then when I fly home, they became regular tomatoes perfect for my "sawsawan" (sauce?). Didn't even realize the shift in my perception of things whenever I cross the Pacific. There probably are more example to this shift too. Am I making any sense here? I hope so.
Hi AmericanLola – Since the days when you came here, things have really improved, I'm sure. Even just in the past 7+ years things have gotten better from a western perspective. Plenty of lettuce, good tomatoes, etc. Don't you think?
Hi macky – That is indeed interesting how your perspective shifts like that! I understand exactly what you are saying, and I do find it fascinating.
ya know bob its not just the phils that attitude is present – here where i live in florida the people from up north always have a better way too i just shake my head and say we don't all do it the way you do it up north i think the same applys there i think the people that have been surviveing there for hundreds of years have things pretty well refined and we as foreniers may have a thing or two to learn from them ๐
Hi AmericanLola: I tried to think hard of what could zuchinni's vege look-alike (or equivalent to) in the Phils. I figured it's patola or sikwa, the dried one is made into loffa (spelling please) scrub! But then I was able to taste a zuchinni bread—it's veryy nice. Hmmm, patola couldnt be an ingredient for bread. What do you think ? Regarding pechay, I never thought of it as a lettuce substitute because of it's peculiar smell. O gosh, I am amazed of the different lettuce varieties here !
Hi Jio: Isn't it amazing to have orange-colored tomatoes and tomatoes of different shapes ? My fave is Roma because it doesn't rot easily and it's cheap! Hehehe…
Hi Richard: Oh the blue egg!!! You tricked me there. Wait, there's salted egg usually dyed purple in the Phils. Macky's sawsawan is a good match to it. There's century egg too but I haven't tried it yet. Of course, the Philippines' signature eggs—balut and penoy. BTW, I tried making salted eggs here and it wasn't salty as I expected despite soaking them in brine for more than 15 days. Maybe because the eggs were not from the ducks, they're from Safeway ! ๐
Jul,
I'm curious why you would go thru the trouble of making salted eggs when you can just get them from an Asian store. Is that because you're curious how it's made? Or don't you have an Asian store where you're at?
BTW, century eggs are good. They look gross but I like the taste — though I wonder if they're laden with cholesterol.
About pechay, isn't that more like bok choy? Looks like bok choy to me, though I don't claim expertise in any of these.
Hello jul,
I haven't seen a Roma tomato (or I might have seen one here in SG but didn't know it could be its name). But if ever I encounter one, I'll do try that and make one hefty salad out of it along with lots of greens. ๐ Thanks for the info.
Yeah, I like that tomatoes do come in varied colors and shapes. Nowadays, I'm into cherry tomatoes (small, round, cherry like tomatoes) which I could find a lot here in the supermarkets of SG. Quite nice for a quick salad snack attack, hehe.
Yes, I think petsay is bok choy, and yes, it does smell funny, and in my opinion, is a lousy lettuce substitute! ๐ I am also not very keen on thousand island dressing, either, and that used to be the only option in restaurants.
Yes, things have really changed! We can now get several types of lettuce, asparagus, zuchinni, and the other day, I even found ripe ripened, 'real' tomatoes, still on a vine at SM!
I have tried patola, and it is nice is tinola, but kind of watery when cooked as a stand alone vegetable, in my opinion. Our neighbor grows patola and we harvest the luffa spounges that remain hanging in our bushes! ๐
Funny that Roma is your favorite, Jul, since I think That the little tomatoes we have here in the Philippines ARE Roma tomatoes! But they really are good for slicing and dicing!
AmericanLola,
Now you're making us want to eat salads pronto! BTW, are prepared/packaged salads available there now? Has it caught on? About dressings, I just like trying different kinds. Only thing is I sometimes have several opened bottles all at once in the fridge. After a while, I have to toss them out.
Oh Bob, too funny about the tomatoes, LOL LOL! We repack veggies for P & S and we have to mis green and red and in betwen or no one would buy them.
Angie,
Eden has prepackaged salads – washed lettuce, has some carrots, some caorn, a tomato, and I am not sure what else comes packaged with oriental or thousand island dressing.
I want to try to grow some beefsteak or similar tomatoes but I have heard they just don't grow well over here. No I wouldn't be targeting filipinos but more for myself… I really miss a good tomato sandwich.
Hi Louis
Unless I'm barking up the wrong tree, you will have trouble growing beefsteak on a tomato plant.
๐ ๐
Hi Tommy – I used to live in Louisiana, and I can appreciate what you are saying.
Hi AmericanLola – The best place to get salad stuff is from Father Franco in Buda!
Hi Cheryll Ann – Interesting about having to mix the red and green! I never thought of that!
Hi Louis – on a post I made a while back on this blog, I told about Oded, and Israeli national who lives in the Marilog District of Davao. He grows beefsteaks in his greenhouses.
Hi Jack – come to think of it – that could be tough to do! ๐
Louis,
I think Beefsteak Tomatoes, and Heirloom tomatoes are hard to grow here,or maybe I am just a terrible gardener.
A few years back I ordered a bunch of seeds fromJohnny's Selected seeds. It was a DISASTER!
I ordered lots of tomato, lettuce and flower seeds.. Only the flowers grew well and only hose for Zones 9 and 10 , ehehhehe.
Check out the URL for a site called ‘Indigenous Vegetables of Southeast Asia" A "greenfingers" paradise. http://203.64.245.173/iv_sea/main.asp
This site includes field days held in the Philippines. Bob being a computer man, why do some sites just have numbers for a URL?
Also this URL http://www.bar.gov.ph/ which is the Bureau of Agricultural Research of the Philippines. They have an "Indigenous Plants For Health" seminar coming up in October in Manila.
By the way check out the beautiful tomatoes and dishes using various indigenous vegetables.The pictures certainly made my mouth water for a taste. http://203.64.245.173/iv_sea/News/news.asp
If filipinos really do prefer green tomatoes, why are red, ripe, lucious ones much, much more expensive than the green ones? Perhaps filipinos like green ones, not because its so much tastier than the red, ripe ones, but it's just so much cheaper. Distribution costs for harvesting green ones are much cheaper as shelf life will be longer. So, perhaps more accurate statement is that Filipinos like cheaper tomatoes. Filipinos love good things just like the rest of the world. Economics just don't allow such luxury.
Regarding the original topic, I generally agree that Phil expats shouldn't assume they know better than the filipinos. This is only because most of the expats in Phil were not highly paid, top of their profession type career individuals. Such people generally do not choose to live (either as retirees or expat executives) in Philippines, for a variety of reasons. The countries where there are such expats, like HK and Japan, they DO know much more than the locals. This is why they are highly paid to live in those countries.
Hi Jae
I think the asumption you have made in your second paragraph is totally out of order and misguided. Would you care to expand on the second sentance please in case I am misinterpreting it's meaning.
Jae,
So you're saying that, generally speaking, better paid or more affluent expats would know more about how to do things in my country than Filipinos like me?!! Jack's right, you better start rephrasing your comment. You just made wrong assumptions on Filipinos and expats in the Philippines. Congrats, that's a grand slam in itself.
By the way, I grew up in a family not worried about the price differences of red and green tomatoes. We mix both in our sauces because prefer the taste.
Cultures also have distinct preferences in tastes, Jae. It's not all about economics. Something your "high end expats" may not be familiar without being immersed in a distinct culture regardless of their salaries.
Jae,
I'm trying to be fair here. Sometimes words can be misinterpreted when read and not heard. Please explain what you mean.
Hi Jack,
I was simply stating that most expats who are retired in Phil are blue-collar/military. Of course there are exceptions, but I believe this generalization is largely accurate. I am sure expats know many things, but I was referring to matters of high level technical nature where typical blue-collar/military are not exposed to. Even the many expat executives in Phil do not come by choice. So generally only mid-level managers (or sidelined seniors) from corp HQ are placed in high level positions in Phil branch offices.
So what I was meaning to say is that expats in Phil in general should not think they know "better" than the locals just because they come from developed countries.
I certainly wasn't trying to put down expats (although I guess it could be read as such upon re-reading the post). I am one of them, after all.
Macky,
Don't blow your top… If there are highly paid, expat executive here in Phil, and I am sure are there are some, YES, they DO know better than you or me or anyone else in Philippines about the SPECIFIC TASK they were brought here for. I believe there are such executives from Japan working at San Miguel Corp. If they didn't know better than all at that specific task, they would not be paid upwards of million$ to work here.
hELLO bOB – i miss the green tomatoes !! as i remember, we usually mix green & red tomatoes, sili, soy sauce, for our fresh grilled Tuna or Tilapia (English -?) or Bangus (Milkfish). Yummy!
Jae,
Like Macky my family does not have to worry about the price of green or ripe tomatoes but as someone whose family has a supermarket business and a vegetable repacking business. I have to tell you that toamtoesare sold WHOLESALE in wooden boxes, it is a mix of ripe and green and thereis ONLY 1 price.
There is no such thing as 1 big crate of ripe tomatoes X price and 1 big crate of green tomatoes X price.
I think the red tomatoes that are more expensive – the ones you are talking about – they are not the ordinary tomatoes – those are the greenhouse tomatoes or the Hydroponics grown one. Those are usually never sold Green.
MaryGrace – Tilapia is St Peters Fish or something like that.
I see the point your making, Jae. Heck, In the sports world, I've always been for paying foreign coaches teaching their expertise on our local athletes (pro ball and international meets). and that is related to your point.
But I believe the point was that there are little things that may seem off or backward to the outsider that is actually quite effective. We can't assume thats some things and approaches that work in other countres may work in all places. I know many things done here in the US that is amazingly effective would not stand a chance in the Philippines (and vice versa).
It is the intricacies of distinct cultures that make these things possible. Little things. The humor, the attitude and the history. I would not expect a new arrival (regardless of pay scale or upbringing) to understand these things. I do not mean a certain experties (like coaching or a tech degree). Hope we are clear with this.
Hi Cheryll Ann – I think that Beefsteak and other such tomato varieties can be grown here, but must be done in greenhouses.
Hi Richard – Thanks for sharing those resources. That site did have some lovely tomatoes on it!
Hi Jae – Oh boy…. where should I start? Well, I tend to disagree that most expats here are blue collar. I know plenty of doctors and other such professionals who have chosen to live here. And, based on my conversations with expats that I have hung out with, I can assure you that most expats, especially when they have been here a short time, go through a phase where they think that everything done here is done incorrectly. They generally talk about "they do this or that much better back home" and stuff like that. For many of "us" expats, I think that after going through this phase, we tend to learn that we need to accept the way things are done here, or just go back home. Anyway, when it comes to expats knowing better than locals, we aren't really talking about brain surgery here, or any other technical specialty, we're talking about which tomatoes taste the best. Filipinos certainly know best what most Filipinos like to eat. Personally, i don't think it's a matter of price, I think it's a sense of taste.
Hi marygrace – Don't worry, in English we also use the name "tilapia." I'm not a fan of green tomatoes, though! ๐
Hey Bob,
The generalization I made about blue-collar/military is based on the fact that most expats in Phil live on gov't pension of few thousand$ or less. There is a statistical survey out there somewhere by Phil gov't.
I would be happy to agree that Filipino tastes are cultural. But I just can't. Why? Many of these "tastes" are FORCED upon the masses through economics. Do you really see much variety in vegetables and fruits? Green tomatoes are dirt cheap to bring to market. As such, Filipinos may have acquired a taste for it. If red, ripe, lucious tomatoes were available from the start, I would doubt if green ones would have gained favor.
I have acquired a taste for sugar spagetti in Philippines. At first I gaged. Now, I like to have it sometimes. This acquired taste was forced because it's so hard to find any real spagetti here…and if your wife's the one making the spagetti, well, you develop the taste for it, whether you like it or not.
Ask yourself. Do Filipinos LIKE to ride tricycles and jeepneys? No way. It's a forced means of travel due to economical constraints.
Tomatoes? I would bet that many Filipinos would prefer the juicy red, if they are given the opportunity to access them, and have chance to enjoy them…
I agree wholeheartedly.
The Pines is like any other country it’s horses for courses. The people are presented with distinct economic and climatic and cultural circumstances and they adapt to what is presented to them. Sweet Spag, green mangoes and green tomatoes are eaten, fried dried fish are enjoyed because that is what is presented to them on a day to day basis. My daughters are tisay, they will eat green mangoes but prefer ripe ones, they will eat sweet Spag but prefer the salted traditional Spag variety, they won’t eat green tomatoes at all. They will nibble on dried fried fish if there is nothing else on offer but they devour fried flour coated tuna. These shifts in food acceptance is because that is how “we” eat in our household. I am confident if I wasn’t there green mangoes and fish paste, green tomatoes, sweet Spag and fried dried fish would be very yummy.
Hmmm. Now when I come back home this December in Phils, I better start telling my family to cook "St. Peter's Fish" ๐ (and that Tilapia is indeed best grilled fresh after being caught, served with white rice and lots of tomatoes and salted eggs).
Bob, I was just reading again and saw the green eggs mentioned.
There is a chicken called "Ameraucana" that lays colored eggs. They are called the Easter Egg Chicken.
No Jae,
You are mistaken. Allow me to explain and I don't mean any animosity here.
Let's start with tomatoes and food . Simple enough. It really is a matter of taste. We like ours a certain way.
Green mangoes or yellow? I, like many pinoys, prefer sour green mangoes with rock salt or patis (fish sauce). Crabs with dipped in butter cream? sound good, huh? Not for me, I like mine with suka/vinegar (…And the whole Philippines says "Aye"). I don't want my sili and toyo mixed with ripe red tomatoes (with pasta or italian food, SURE!) but I want mine with green tomatoes.
I lived in NY, SF and other developed cities. I do not need to go home and take a trisikad or jeepney. But I do, I like it. You may consider these as inconveniences and prefer the comforts that money can buy, but why assume we Filipinos think the same way you do? And you know what? I am not an eccentric. many Pinoys feel the same way I do.
Try to see the jeepney as a positive covenient public utility. It really is. Much easier than the subway, I assure you. Stops everywher and most likely at the place you are going to. It's all a matter of perspective. my friend. Try to see things in these positive light and it isn't a discomfort that you seem to peg it as.
Jeepneys, exotic culinary taste may be FORCED for you. An ACQUIRED TASTE. I don't blame you. You are a foreigner (though many have grown to love them). But here's a radical thought… To us, it's not acquired and it may not be "forced" on us. What may be bad or backward for you is the norm for us. A good thing. Sometimes we need to understand a culture this way.
Perspective and understanding, Jae. Everything is not about the peso sign.
I totally disagree with you Macky. When I am in the Philippines I have to eat what is presented to me and I can tell you in no uncertain terms if there is no alternative I have to accept what is on offer. To think things are not forced onto people is totally misguided and lacks understanding on how life works.
I love using Jeepneys, it is cheap and a very convenient mode of transport for us but for the life of me why couldn’t they raise the roof about 150mm ( 6 inches ) so people don’t hit their heads regularly?? Ya think that’s not forced on you lol?
In the Pines my friend ( to borrow a popular Pino phrase ), a lot has to do with the Piso.
And not all Filipinos spell words as badly as I do. ๐ณ
Need to proof read my stuff before I press that darn Enter key.
Hi Jae – Sorry, I guess we just see things differently. I find that Filipinos prefer these things, it's simply not a forced behavior. Perhaps your experiences are different than mine.
Hi Cheryll Ann – Fascinating about that chicken! I've never heard of it!
Hi Macky – The things you talk about agree with my observations and experiences.
>I would be happy to agree that Filipino tastes are cultural. But I just can’t.
ูSo you know better than us Filipinos? The way you said it does not really stand well with Filipino sensitivities. I know you are just stating you view, but it could be irritating to a lot of Filipinos.
>Many of these “tastes” are FORCED upon the masses through economics.
Are you telling us that we like to eat our Adobo, Paella, Lechon, Pinakbet because it's all we can afford? You know what, you are just like saying, "you know you Filipinos think that your taste is due to your culture, but actually, your taste is the way it is because you are dirt poor."
And you mentioned Filipino Spaghetti as an example. Are the ingridients of a Filipino Spaghetti significantly less expensive than that ingridients of the Italian? I doubt it. It could even be more expensive with all the ground beef, ground pork, hotdog in it… and don't forget the sugar which is not present in italian spag. ๐
So don't equate everything with money.
To prove macky wrong, it seems a lot of Filipinos are bad in spelling. ๐
ingridients = ingredients
I have to agree with Jae and his blue collar comment, I may get flamed for this but I can only report what my wife and I have seen during our travels in Mindanao.
All the expat British and Americans we have met seem to be from a blue collar social grouping, no disrespect intended. We both commented on it.
This does not include Bob whom we met and is a courteous gentleman.
Scott
Dex U,
You shud bi ashamed. ๐
Hi Jae
I have eaten spagetti in Philippines and my opinion is that it's exactly the same taste as I have tasted in any other country, maybe it was cooked that way especially for me, I'm not sure.
Jae I have tried to make sense of your reply to me but it does not fit together, but I do realise your comment was not meant to be taken the way I read it. I think if I were a Filipino I'm sure that I would take your comments bordering on being facetious.
Hey macky, you're like my English teacher, haunting me always with my mistakes!!! ๐ฅ
Blue collar or not, everyone who behaves well and who respects our tomatoes ๐ is welcome in the Philippines.
Hello All,
I decided to stop posting comments on the blog the last few days because I realized that it was causing me stress. I visit this blog to relieve stress, not to be stressed. BUT, couldn't help myself when I read the comments on this post. Isn't the title of the post very apt to what's transpired on the exchanges above?
Why can't the non-Filipinos accept what the Filipinos are telling them? Yes, growing up, my mom always instructed the help to buy tomatoes in varying degrees of ripeness. It wasn't a matter of cost, it was a matter of convenience. You can't keep going to the market to buy ripe tomatoes when you need them. Secondly, I don't know about you but I never store tomatoes in the fridge. It destroys the taste and the texture. I cook with a lot of tomatoes, being married to an Italian. ๐ And, no, I don't cook spaghetti with hotdogs or catsup. However, it is the way they do it in the Philippines and they're happy with it so let them be…
American Lola, I can't imagine having pechay (bok choy) as a salad! I feel for you.
I sent a lot of vegetable (cherry, beefsteak, roma tomatoes, eggplant, zucchini, peppers, etc.) and herb (basil, arugula, parsley) seeds to be tested there but have not heard back anything positive. The climate might be too hot or no one was really into growing them. I plan to do this myself when I move there.
Jul and Jio, Cheryll Ann is right. St. Peter's fish is "tilapia". It was, supposedly, the fish that Jesus fed the thousands with in the Sea of Galilee.
That's it, folks! No arguments for me please…
Hi Tina – I'm glad you decided to comment! I was thinking over the past few days "what happened to Tina?" I missed your input on the blog! I hope you are at least visiting!
Hi Bob,
Don't worry, I'll always be visiting. I just won't be commenting a lot. Better for my health and also trying to stay out of trouble… ๐
Saint Peter liked his Talipia with spaghetti but he didn't like tomatoes.
๐ Saint Peter liked his Talipia with spaghetti but he didn't like tomatoes. ๐
oh, a double take there, sorry
Post # 41: Jae
Of course, Filipinos would prefer red tomatoes if the cooking requires red tomatoes.
“if they are given an opportunity to access them and have a chance to enjoy them…"
Your statement seems to me that red tomatoes are not at all accessible in the Philippines. Since when the Filipinos don’t have access to juicy red tomatoes? Would you like to order juicy red tomatoes especially delivered to your doorstep? I’m not kidding!!! Just don’t order a tomato variety that does grow in a hot climate like the Philippines.
Btw, I own a vegetable stall in Kidapawan City Public Market and we are not selling green or red ‘CHEAP DIRT’ variety.
Sorry guys…cant' help to become sensitive here:sad:
I would also agree and side with the replies of Macky and Dex U in defense of our special Pinoy "tastes" that sets us differently from other nations. I just don't like it either when others tend to (initially and generally) think of us Filipinos as "backward", "dirt poor", "incapable of buying", or "no good". And that reminds of a recent APEC story calling the "barong tagalog" as a "peasant shirt" (but that's another story, yet I could feel yet another downgrading of our culture). ๐
Ok, there I said it… sigh, I feel my chest lightened a bit.
You are kidding, right? Filipinos actually PREFER to ride tricycles and jeepneys? Over cars and subways? No way. If you are a tourist or balikbayan, perhaps it represents an interesting ride experience. If you are a local, you are FORCED. Give Filipinos credit. They prefer comfort, just like the rest of the world.
Spagetti? Italian spagetti has sugar in it, but for taste enhancement, not to make it into syrup. Italian spagetti is much more expensive than jollybees. If you live in Phil, you will know this. Jolly has all those goody ingredients in it like ground beef/pork/sausages? Do you know what these are made of? All leftover bones and parts are SQUEEZED in high pressure metal press. The juice that comes out is your sausage and processed meat. Jolly does NOT use ground beef/pork . They use processed meats/sausage only. Yes, jolly is cheap cheap product. But it tastes so darn good to all the people because they have made taste addicts out of people.
Look at all the TV ads with children happily eating hotdogs and instant noodles for dinner. Very healthy. They are eating junk, and developing taste for junk food because of greedy companies that push these products. Same thing happens in the U.S. with McDo, etc. There is an outcry in U.S. over McDo and other fastfoods being unhealthy. Here in phil, you don’t see that.
Yes, I stand by my statement that many “tastes” are economics driven. I am not saying Filipinos have cheap taste (except in the case of Imelda Marcos). What I am saying is that many of the tastes are FORCED due to no fault of their own except for the greedy companies.
If Filipinos have access to many other taste options, but still prefer hotdogs and green tomatoes, I will stand corrected. But as of now, they are forced due to lack of choice and greed.
Please don't think I am degrading Filipinos and Filipino culture. I am most certainly not. Jollybees is NOT Filipino culture, and noticing lack of choice/ forced choice are my observations. Not my attempt to make Filipinos look bad.
p.s. non-filipinos like me can’t accept all statements just because a Filipino made it. A statement like Filipinos actually prefer to ride tricycles and jeepny. That’s simply ridiculous. They ride it out of necessity. Statement like that, although probably made to defend Filipino ways, is misplaced. It actually makes Filipinos look bad. I will soon be having a child with Filipino blood. I certainly don’t want people thinking my child prefers to ride tricycles and jeepneys! Someone has a motor, or a car. But they still prefer to ride tricycle/jeepney? Give me a break, please.
Teng,
I have lived in many cities in Philippines, and NOPE, Filipinos do not have access to red, ripe juicy tomatoes. Yes, there are some to be found at large supermarkets. But they are so astronomically priced, its simply ridiculous. Out-of-reach priced goods, by definition, are inaccessible to the vast majority of Filipinos. 100pesos for 4 tomatoes?!
Another comment for you, Teng,
Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam. All have same hot temperatures like Philippines. Why is it that they have all the supposedly non-hot climate produce at fair prices?
Jae,
Those tomato varieties that you are talking about are not required to our way of Filipino cooking. For example: Why should one buy "beefsteak variety" if he/she is cooking 'Tinola'? As a vegetable vendor, why should I sell "beefsteak variety" if my market/buyers are not sandwich or salad eaters. In other words, Jae, those red, ripe, juicy tomatoe that you are talking about is NOT our needs. Why we should try to afford those 4 pcs. 100 pesos if it is not necessary?
It seems to me that you are trying to portray here that we Filipinos cannot afford to eat good food because we cannot afford priced goods. I hope i'm wrong.
Jae, Jae, Jae,
Read my comment again. Sure I like the subways, i take them all the time. I am trying to say that one visitor's perception may be different than the home crowd's. I dont detest the jeepney or the trisikad. I actually love the quiet ride from a subdivision entrance to a home. quaint and nice. Sort of like a kalesa (just so you can see it my way).
Believe this: You may not be one of them, but there are people who prefer the convenience of public utility rather than driving a car. Some countries have the subway. It'll get you from one station to another. i love that system. The jeepney is the same way, but it'll most likely get you right in front of the place you are getting to. shorter stops and easy access to go in and out. What is it with you and the hassle for riding a jeepney? a jeepney, Jae? It's not the Eurail, but what so demeaning about a jeepney? or a quiet ride in a trisikad? ๐
I cannot believe I am trying to defend the jeepney in this blog. I feel funny even explaining it to you.
It seems you are a half-empty type of guy. There are conveniences to the system too and you seem to look at our ways like it had the black plaque smeared all over it. Am I insulting my own people by saying we are resigned to a flawed lifestyle? My answers were as honest as they come.
There is an article in this blog about seeing things in a positive light. Instead of nitpicking how backward things are, you try to see it as another interesting way of going about things. Then you can see that what we see.
Am I trying to be the resident Filipino expert? Hell no. I am far from it. But don't you think the multiple comments by Filipinos… about Filipino culture… in the Philippines…commenting from different parts of the globe hold some sort of weight to the argument?
I don't even know why I am replying to you. It seems making you see things differently is a lost cause. I'll give this to you though, you are an honest fella. Better a frank statement that someone just trying to be nice. That's what this site is all about. No fake statements allowed.
But I see this as a lost cause. You're even debating a Filipino vegetable stall owner (in Kidapawan to boot! not a Makati supermarket) that you know more about local red tomatoes. If I were a betting man, I'd bet on the veggie owner here.
all of this because of a kamatis. Tina, I think I feel your pain.
Some very heated arguments concerning tomatoes here, I am glad we do not discuss politics … ๐
Scott
Tricycles and jeepneys, while they are serving their purpose as of now because there is lack of other options, should not be viewed as PREFERRED way of transport. It's not. If its such an efficient, effective method, all developed worlds would have it right now.
It's this mentality that it's OK makes progress difficult. Filipinos, while accepting that it is the only transport out of necessity at the moment, should strive to build better transport infrastructure.
If Filipinos really prefer tricycles and jeepney like you say, Philppines is doomed.
I have a feeling that you are very out of touch with Phil. A "quiet ride" on tricycle? That's a shining example of an oxymoron if I ever heard of one.
Hay, pastilan gayud na lang! Purbida gayud! ๐
Sorry, guys, can't translate. This is just an expression of exasperation… ๐
Macky,
Yes, I guess I am half empty guy. If one is half-full (as I presume you are?), then one gets doesn't see the need to improve. I am the type who always try to improve. Perhaps viewed as a character flaw by some. But it served me well.
Filipinos should not be satisfied with leftover transportation from U.S. military era like jeepney. It should not be satisfied with many problems. It should improve. It should provide better choices.
ANything wrong with trying to improve?
Green tomatoes, tricycles, jeepneys. These simple things exemplify some deeper problems in Philippines.
I guess you are replying to me because what I say irritate you. By same token, what you say about being satisfied with jeepney irritates me greatly. It's actually a national shame that the major mode of transport in Phil is leftover jeeps by U.S. military.
It irritates me that some people consider "preferred way of living" what actually should be considered a shame.
Hi Bob,
To get back to your article on who is smart and who is not, My Granddad told me when I was a little boy, " Son to measure how smart you are about anything, depends on where you are standing in the world at the time". I have always used this measurement of being smarter than the people I am talking with at the time, and in what part of the world I was standing. Seems to work for me:grin:
Hi Jae,
I am aware of the problems my country has. I think of it everyday when I check the news. Today's headline in fact is a perfect example. Please don't assume I, or other Filipinos, are defeatists and resigned to our fate. It is insulting. I don't know how else to say this. It really is insulting. You have basically compared our culture to found garbage.
I am not one of those ultra nationalists who see my country through rose colored glasses. If you get to know me, I have some severe complaints about the system. But this logic of yours is simply mind-boggling. I had to say something.
It is one thing to say that much is needed to be improved in our country (that is quite obvious) and another thing to relegate our culture as abhorent recyclables that we are forced to take pride of because we have nothing else.
Veggie produce and the jeepney –or a US WW2 relic as you put it — are not the problem. I have said my piece here and I hope I do not have to reply again.
Hey guys,
I am not following this argument, I have just spoken with my wife who is from Davao Del Norte and she says that given the choice she would rather go in an airconditioned car with a driver than a jeepney, and so would most people.
She says you get snatchers in jeepneys …
Scott
Macky,
Are you even reading my posts? I said Phil is found garbage? I said Filipinos have to take pride because Fils have nothing else?????!
I said Filipinos should NOT take pride because they deserve more; that they should NOT be satisfied with the current state of things.
You are shoving dirty words down my throat.
I am being defensive of the Filipino people. Read my posts again.
In fact, you are actually insulting to your fellow filipinos who have to endure the hot, smelly, crowded, polluted, noisy, dangerous jeepney rides everyday to go to work and back. You are telling them they should enjoy that h*ll ride.
trikes,jeepneys,green tomatoes. They are not the cause of the problem. They are SYMPTOMS. That's my point. The point being the greedy companies are forcing filipinos to accept inferior products and services. My point is NOT that Phil is found garbage, OK?!
Hi Guy's- Just remember the Philippines is a developing country and there is room for improvment in everything including the transport systems but at their own pace.
Tina,
"Hay, pastilan gayud na lang! Purbida gayud!"
Can you please translate so I can share your pain? Just kidding! BTW, I am not from Mindanao so I really did not understand. And oh, echoing Bob, I missed your posts.
Jae, how was your business trip? Were you "lusting" for green tomatoes and did not find them in the countries you visited. ๐
And oh my, I did not know that tilapia is called "St. Peter's Fish." Wow, the things I learn on this blog. What I've noticed though is that the tilapia seems to have gained popularity in the US, too. Evidence is, it has started appearing on restaurant menus; it used to be that the resto menus would only have the usual fare: salmon, halibut, or anything else they don't care to identify hiding under "grilled fillet of fish." Now I would see "grilled tilapia." So the tilapia has been elevated in status. If it was the fish that Jesus gave away, I feel so honored now to be eating it, knowing I would be in good company… Yes, I have been trying the tilapia. It's quite good, actually.
I don't like tomato!!! Never liked it in whatever color!
Jae,
"It irritates me that some people consider “preferred way of living” what actually should be considered a shame."
With the level of irritation that you've been experiencing in the Philippines (as evidenced by your many posts on this blog), I have to wonder why you don't exercise your choice of living elsewhere — where there is almost no irritation, where you have access to ripe/red/luscious tomatoes, where you can ride the subways or drive your own luxury car, where you don't see garbage everywhere (as you said on another post), no sight of jeepneys or trisikad… Why oh why?
Life is all about free choices. If you're not happy and your level of exasperation is such that you're always ranting and raving, why not find your own piece of paradise elsewhere?
It's not good for your health and it may not even be good for your business nor the people in your immediate periphery to be exposed to so much venom all the time.
The Philippines is not perfect and don't we know it. A lot of things need to be improved. Let the Philippines deal with it. At our level, yes, we can do many little things everyday, to help improve what is within our control. Many things… But just being angry does not empower us to do even these little things. Don't you, yourself, notice how paralyzing it is to act when under extreme anger or angst or duress?
Jae, your posts always sound so angry and distressed. Are you?
I've read others who could point out a flaw but stated in much more diplomatic/constructive way so they don't come across as rude & berating & insulting. And then, they do offer workarounds or solutions.
After you've raved, have you offered any solution? Example, on a more practical level, have you in your daily travels around Manila (or wherever) in your probably airconditioned car, offered a free ride to a colleague or a subordinate who might otherwise be "forced to be waiting in shame" for that lowly noisy jeepney that you so despise?
"Be the change that you want to see in the world." — Gandhi.
Hi Angie,
“Hay, pastilan gayud na lang! Purbida gayud!”
In Tagalog, it is somewhat like "Talaga naman, oo! Ano ba yan?" ๐
When I say I'm trying to stay out of trouble, it's because I don't want to get into arguments on this blog, unless I feel compelled to – like with this post (after reading all the previous comments). Also, I was late for a conference call because I was on this blog, which isn't good, ๐ณ so I decided I better stay out of trouble … ๐ I hope I can keep it that way.
BTW, re trisikad, not sure if anyone has been to NYC lately but we have those here, too. They ply the routes from Greenwich Village to Central Park like we have the horse-drawn carriages. They use bikes, not motorcycles which, in my opinion, is more environmental-friendly and healthier for the operator and passengers. ๐
Angie, ang puso mo…
Tina,
Trisikad is bike, Tricycle and Trisiboat is motorcycle.
In Highschool we used to sneak out of school and ride jeeps for thrills or ride a trsikad to Mgnolia house. Trisikad wa sonly 2 pesos back then.
I had quite a heavy classmate who would tap her fan at the "manong" and scream sikad manong sikad! (she wanted him to go faster, hehehe) and the manong would go (you know you are no lightweight, hehehe)
Just came up with what would best describe “Hay, pastilan gayud na lang! Purbida gayud!” in English… It's "Whatever…. :roll:" Okay, gotta do some work and stay out of trouble… ๐
"Angie, ang puso mo…"
Rey, don't worry, I have a healthy heart, so far. Physically & figuratively, I do! Besides, I'm not angry about Jae's posts, there is some truth to some (*not all*) the things he is saying. It's the manner in which the issues are communicated, communication style can determine an outcome.
Lobbying for change is good and I don't argue with that. But the best lobbying starts by being shining examples, ourselves; being the agents of change, no matter how small.
If we think jeepney rides are the "rides from h*ll," I'd offer a free carpool to some people on my way. Give them the experience and save them some money on jeepney fares in the process. In exchange, I might gain a friend or two during my commute, and have some lovely conversation that might be worthwhile instead of driving by myself.
The green tomatoes? Just for fun, even if I don't like it, I'll try them to see what the rave is all about. Then I might have a totally different experience about it. (That is why, I'm looking for durian around my area. I have not found it but I'm still looking.)
The garbage? I'll get together with my neighbors and have a weekend of fun, sponsoring an environmental awareness workshop. We don't have to call it that as it might intimidate others who think it sounds so "big" but we can do something along those lines and bring it to a level where awareness will have practical applications to daily life….
Something like that.
But if I can't offer a workaround or solution, I'd just keep things to myself until such time that I am able to.
How's Dubai, Rey? Hope the heat is bearable. Take care, kababayan, and give my regards to your clan in RP.
Cheryll Ann – thank you for that info – St. Peter's Fish.
I'm like Tina, I read this blog always. I read this more than once a day. And yes, sometimes reading the posts could be stressful.
Cheryll Ann/Mary Grace – yes, Tilapia is an English term also. Sometimes, I get frozen tilapia fillet here. Cooking is not my thing, hence, I’m avoiding fresh ones. I will wait when I get to Gensan
To Jae – I agree with you on some issues like expats that were hired to work in the Phils. Yes, they should know better; that's why they're hired in the first place. But as Bob said, we’re talking about tomatoes and the like issues here, not brain surgery or cancer treatment. Regarding your comments about green tomatoes being forced to us because it’s cheap, I just laughed. I can't believe you say that. Let me just say this then, try to visit Mindanao cities, because tomatoes –green, yellow, red – they’re priced the same. You are visiting the wrong cities Jae, if it is indeed true that green tomatoes are cheaper than red ones. I feel sorry for you.
Re: jeepneys, etc. – you have a point there, it is forced initially due to financial reason. But for some adults who can afford to buy a car, and even the ones who have a car, most of the times they prefer public transportation due to traffic reasons. Imagine all executives in Metro Manila driving cars! Can you picture out the traffic? At the same token, most of the small town USA doesn’t have public transportation. If we have Jeepneys here, our main street would be sooo quiet. ๐
And yes, it’s not all about the money, Jae. Money is something but it’s not everything. And remember the prayer of serenity. And for some things you can’t change, leave it alone. Otherwise, you’ll be living a miserable life. Life is too short. When, you’re in the Philippines, try to enjoy what the Philippines can offer, and stop whining. ๐ Lots of us, born in the Philippines are whining already; a foreigner who whines is not acceptable.:)
Macky – thanks for defending the “poor” Filipinos. You saved us time to comment.
Cheryl Ann,
"I had quite a heavy classmate who would tap her fan at the “manong” and scream sikad manong sikad! (she wanted him to go faster, hehehe) and the manong would go (you know you are no lightweight, hehehe)"
Manong might have gotten a really good exercise in those days. ๐ The positive side-effect is that he was doing a treadmill while making his living. Now, isn't that just a good way to look at it?
Cheryll, you are such a trip with all your stories. You always seem to have so much energy!
Okay, I'll log off now as it's 10:30 a.m. Pacific time. I'll attend to my own business the rest of the day.
Thanking Bob for this blog, it's been a good way to break away from my own schedule (which sometimes almost seems like a 7×24). Ah, the joys of globalization… But I'm glad to be living in these era of many changes and be here to experience it. Sorry to digress.
Will check later tonight for more fun on "cultural differences" and who knows what and who will teach us the right ways. ๐
Hey Guys & Gals!
Isn't there a movie entitled "Fried Green Tomatoes"? I think I should go and rent it. This post just made me curious. I also will need to try making them. If anyone wants to, below is a link to a recipe. I don't think anyone will have a problem finding green tomatoes in the Philippines, don't you agree?
Sorry, just can't help myself… ๐ณ Bon appetit!
http://southernfood.about.com/od/greentomatoes/r/…
Hi Angie, Dubai is getting bearable each day now with regards to the heat as winter is coming. Hope you can visit Davao someday and yeah i'll introduce you to the clan if we ever meet someday somehow…
Good day cyberfriends, nice balitaktakan! ๐ gotta sleep…
Hi Teng …. I'm coming to Kidapawan in mid January next year. I'll come by your vegetable stall to say hello and purchase some tomatoes.
Jae ….. you want to see some yummy red tomatoes grown in the Philippines then look here http://203.64.245.173/iv_sea/News/news.asp
wow….all this excitement over some red and green tomatoes!
Hi Angie– Let's talk about eggs this time…hehehe. Yes, I was just experimenting on making salted eggs. I was a little bit frustrated of the result. O, I will definitely try eating century egg when I find one!
Hi Charlie – Thanks for an interesting insight! Also, for bringing back the original topic! ๐
Hi Jae – Just wanted to say that the Jeepneys in use today are not old left over American military Jeeps. There are factories where Jeepneys are manufactured these days! Also, you talk about choices, availability of newer stuff and such – are you aware that there are now electric Jeepneys being manufactured? They have some in Makati now, and there is a move to have them in Davao too. Here is an example where Filipinos have taken an item that they like and are comfortable with and improved it to where it is environmentally friendly, modern and still fits the Filipino sense of style and comfort.
Re: #40, Very nicely said, Angie!
Macky, good patient response!
Jae, diplomacy is not your strong suit, so you manage to step in it a lot. I am sure that is frustrating. I hope that those around you, family, friends and neighbors, get to see a positive, kind and helpful side of you that may not be as apparent in a blogging context.
Tina: Ay, pastilan lagi! I think 'pastilan' might be well translated (idiom for idiom), "Oh for heaven sake!" or "Good grief!" or "Ayyayay-yayay" Expressiing, in this case, mild exasperation. What do you think? ๐
Hi American Lola,
I agree. It's like saying "What else can I say?" Ay, ambot na lang, uy! ๐
OT: But because of this green and red tomato , etc, I decided to do some research.
QUOTE from WIKIPEDIA
"Picking and ripening
Tomatoes are often picked unripe (and thus green) and ripened in storage with ethylene. Ethylene is a hydrocarbon gas produced by many fruits that acts as the molecular cue to begin the ripening process. Tomatoes ripened in this way tend to keep longer but have poorer flavor and a mealier, starchier texture than tomatoes ripened on the plant. They may be recognized by their color, which is more pink or orange than the other ripe tomatoes' deep red."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato
Hi Cheryll,
Interesting triva. Are tomatoes fruit or vegetable?
http://www.ctga.org/newctga/facts.htm
The answer to this question is an interesting bit of tomato trivia. Technically a tomato is a fruit, since it is the ripened ovary of a plant. But in 1893 the supreme court ruled in the case of "NIX v. HEDDEN" tomatoes were to be considered vegetables. If you find this hard to believe here is a link to take you to the court ruling: NIX v. HEDDEN, 149 U.S. 304 (1893).
Hi angie – Wow, I had no idea that Tomatoes were such a weighty issue that they were already considered by the Supreme Court! No wonder there are so many comments on this post, I wonder if any Supreme Court Justices would want to weigh in on the subject of Green vs. Red tomatoes? ๐
That's subject to Affirmative Action. And we will have to fill out a form first as to the origin of the tomato, ie, Peru, Mexico, or Philippine Islands, before a ruling can be handed. ๐
On post activity, yes, you do know how to select topics that are of great human interest. Did you notice the most animated discussions happen when there is so much room for interpretation? People get emotional about seemingly small things, not just tomatoes… (on the surface, yes, they might seem trivial. But such topics do bring out deep-seated beliefs, habits, biases, traditions, local practices, even patriotism… oh yes!)
Who's going to tell Macky that the tomato should always be eaten red? Right, Macky?? I'm with you, Macky, I've put it on my to-do list to try green tomatoes. I'm also going to rent this weekend "Fried Green Tomatoes" You bet.
Hi Bob,
Just green and red? Do you have a problem with orange tomatoes? ๐
Oh boy….. One of my goals in life is to never get on Macky's bad side… I'm afraid I am on the edge here now!
The funny thing about this whole post is that honestly, when I wrote this, I didn't feel that I was writing about tomatoes, that was just used an example for the subject that I "thought" I was writing about. Then the comments turned to salad, and finally to a discussion of Philippine culture, pride and such! Whew! What a journey!
Macky,
My only problem is where do I find green tomatoes here? Have any idea? I guess I have to go to a fresh produce (flea market) type place? I'm serious, though, you got me curious about green tomatoes, I want to try them. Never have tried green tomatoes, yet. So my interest is now piqued beyond belief. Should it always be mixed with toyo? Or would geen tomatoes be okay with bagoong? Thanks.
Did you know that Tomatoes were first produced in Ireland in 1307 and were called tomatinos
Hi Jack,
Interesting about #105. I thought they originated from Peru (according to one site) but I will not argue as that was way before our time. I have been reading up on tomatoes last night. Did you hear that, Bob? You got me going on tomatoes. So many sites said it is really a fruit and that it is the #1 fruit in the world, consumption wise. #2 is supposedly banana.
Another thing I read is that tomatoes are supposed to reduce risk of prostate cancer because it is rich in antioxidants (lycopene or something like that)…
Well folks, I'm still somewhere on the road, I was waiting for traffic to subside but I think I got carried away with many things. And it's now 10:00 p.m. Pacific time, I better head on home and get some dinner. No tomatoes for me tonight. That will have to wait.
I understood that tomatoes were at one point called 'love apples' and were considered poisonous. I wonder who was brave enough to find out otherwise? Maybe someone ready to 'die for love' but ended up making salad instead! ๐
I really admire the regulars of this blog. A lot of things Jae said here if written in other forums would have caused a flame war.
Jae, you are frank and honest, and I appreciate that. But you should have been sensitive to the other readers who have felt insulted and who have clearly stated that in their comments. Are you making yourself an example of the type of expats who say "I know better than you do" all the time? Macky has said again and again that he prefers green tomatoes sometimes even if red ones are available, and yet you still consider green tomatoes as a symptom to a Philippine problem. Unsa man uy!
Oh, and please do not bring Jollibee into this mess. Are you not aware of the chaos brought about by an American teen who ridiculed Jollibbee on her blog?
Anyway, look at the ingredients of the homemade Filipino spag and the Italian spag. Filipino spag has more ingredients.
Hi Bob,
I kid, I kid ๐ Viva la kamatis.
Hi Angie,
Nope, sorry I'm strictly the durian treasure hunter for California ( DarTH Cali). I may have come across some green tomatoes here in California but I would have likely not noticed them. Smell not strong enough to attract my attention ๐
On it's other uses, I would defer to my pops regarding how to use them because I loved the mixes he'd come up with. But sadly, I did not pick up his skills.
Hey all,
I feel I need to say this: I was reminded by my wife of finding common ground from dissenting groups. I thought of the lead singer of U2, Bono (My favorite — think of Bob and Jimmy Buffett). I read his book on philantrophy and he spoke of finding common ground between him (a progressive/activist rocker) and the conservative elite in the US (like Jesse Helms & Rick Santorum) to help him support his charities for Africa. Seems like an odd pairing but I did enjoy the message of finding a common belief (in this case, their faith) to pursue something positive.
It would be so easy for Bono to dismiss the conservatives as singled minded people (I, a lesser man, would be tempted to do so). The senators could have looked down on this celebrity activist as a non-entity. Bridges would have been burned instead of having new ones built. But they saw the big picture. They understood each other and moved forward and because of that many lives have been saved through their efforts in Washington. There will always be differences between them but that's life. I liked this message. I wish this would be the attitude for our current political climate (in the US and most especially the Philippines).
Am I going to deep here? "Am I bugging you, I don't mean to bug ya" as Bono once sang.
I just wanted say that I do not take anything personal here. I love the lively debates. The learning. Jae actually expressed that he wants Filipinos to better themselves and to expect more. I feel the same way. This from a non-Filipino. To care about this and be so passionate in his messages is deeply admirable.
See? common ground. The delivery may not be to my liking and there are some pointed differences (very pointed differences). I am an opinionated fella (ya think?) but nothing is taken personally and I do my best to be respectful and fair. I hope Jae feels the same way.
Viva la … um, what was the discussion topic again? ๐
Hi Richard,
You're very much welcome to visit my vegetable stall in Kidapawan.
Unfortunately, I won't be there myself but my wife is always there. I'll be home late next month 'till 3rd week of November also to celebrate All Saints Day with my family. Anyway, I'll tell my wife in advance to not be surprised if she has a visitor sometime in January 2008. I'll be then back to work here at the land of the Rising Sun. When you're there inside the public market just ask any vendor for "Virgie's Fresh Vegie". We have also another store inside the market that sells rice and feeds called 'ABROSE FIELD'.
During my vacation I would like to meet Bob and Feyma if they have time. Don't worry Bob, Feyma….I won't show up in your doorstep without giving you a notice..Lol. (just remember Bob's blog about his friend 'Manial')…
Um, "DarTH Cali" didn't even make sense. Why do I keep making these typos? I blame Ateneo.
Hi AmericaLola, Now you give me an idea… Next time my partner prepares salted egg with tomatoes, i'll join eating it with her (I hate tomatoes) then i'll show your comment here so that should convince her enough, I think.
Hi Teng,
I've made a note of the name of your stall. I will be in Kidapawan for possibly up to 10 months so no doubt we might get to meet up in that time.
I think this article has received the most amount of posts of any topic …. and all over tomatoes. By the way you can also get yellow tomatoes and black ones which come from Russia. Apparently there are over 1,000 tomato varieties in the world. And to think that only about 100 years ago they were considered poisonous.
"Viva la … um, what was the discussion topic again?"
Viva la verde… Macky.
So right you are. Actually I like the discussions. They get ugly (sometimes) because they turn passionate. If we can filter thru the noise, then we hear the message, even if the delivery could use some refinement. Like you, Macky, I think the messages were well-intended. And so that's my take-away from this whole thing.
Now, Bob, what other food items can we talk about?
Hi Teng – Whenever you are in town, we'd love to meet you! I won't even write a story about you on the blog (like Manial) if you don't want! ๐
Hi angie – I'm sure we can find something – food or otherwise – to talk about!
Hi Bob,
A story about me…I don't mind..but royalty fee is quite expensive though..lol..lol..just kidding:smile: Is it royalty fee we charge for that thing?
I've enough with tomato now. Another food please:razz:
Looking forward to meeting you Bob..Feyma.
Balut, anyone?
Kimchi..maybe:wink: (is that the right spelling?).
Hi Teng – Hmm… royalties? Let me think about that! ๐
Hi AmericanLola – Count me out!
I have a feeling that most of you are deluding yourself. Like self-hypnosis. You try very hard to find the positive side in things, even when there is none. Is it because you feel that you are stuck here in phil? No choice to go elsewhere? Because of money issues, whatever?
Things that are broken ARE broken. There is no positive about it. you can choose to ACCEPT it because it is the way it is, but that doesn't mean you have to brainwash yourself to LIKE it.
Jeepney? Manufactured? Where the hell do you get this? It's basically a neighborhood junkshop frankenstein mobile.
And oh, for those who say "why don't you move if you dont' like it here in Phil?" Well, I am "forced" to stay. And the main reason is my wife. Probably live here for while.
No one "prefers" to live in Philippines. For those who say they do, they are kidding themselves. People live in philippines due to two reasons: their filipino spouses and lack of finances.
If they had foreign spouses, and had enough funds, they will have PLENTY of other places to live. Do you see wealthy foreign couples who live in Phil? There is none. Even all the Filipinos themselves want to get the heck out of here. As someone said previously, Filipinos do know better about Phil, no?
There. Am I straight-forward enough?
My irritation, and actually distaste with many of the posters, is that they don't seem to know the difference between argument and debate. Many of you seem to have problem with reading comprehension.
MY BEEF WAS NOT WITH THE STATE OF THINGS, ALTHOUGH I AM NOT SATISFIED WITH IT. MY BEEF WAS WITH THE VIEW MANY OF YOU SEEM TO SHARE THAT THINGS ARE WAY THEY ARE BECAUSE FILIPINOS PREFER IT THAT WAY.
HELL NO!
They don't prefer it! They don't prefer jeepney. They don't prefer many, many things here. But they are forced to accept it. This FORCED ACCEPTANCE is created by the greedy corporations and gov’t. And this is what I had beef with. And I have beef with those ingnorant posters who say these things are OK, because filipinos LIKE it that way. What BS.
And you all seem to read my post as if I am putting down the Filipinos. What’s your problem? Read, and comprehend. Before you decide to attack.
Deep inside, those who are making these comments, you have a superiority complex against the Filipinos. You are the ones who think they are dirt poor, and don't know any better. The balikbayans among you. You also think you know better than the locals.
I, on the other hand, am taking the position that Filipinos should NOT like the way many of the things are. That they should demand more. They should not be satisfied with crap transpt like jeepney. They should NOT be satisfied with nipa huts! Or are you also advocating that Filipinos like to live in nipa huts without flush toilets?
Quiet ride on jeepney on the way home? What crap is that?
I also get this feeling that many of you have not travelled much. Most of the SEAsian countries, many of which were much poorer than Phil are far outpacing Phil in just about every facet of life. Vietnam. Thailand. Even Cambodia. Even though Cambodia is dirt poor, they don’t have any smoke belching trucks and junk buses. Has anyone here been there???? Do you even know what you are talking about? Who cares about those countries because we are talking about Phil? What BS. Phil will get worse and worse, if it doesn’t compete with those countries and try to get ahead. We are ALL connected.
Phil is falling apart and falling behind, day after day. And it irritates me greatly to hear foreigners and balikbayans saying, hey that’s ok because Filipinos prefer it that way. What BS.
As with everyone with a spouse, I want best things for mine. We chose not to live in Korea because it is a very homogeneous country, and she will not enjoy her life there. She likes Phil because her family/friends are here, not because she likes all the crap you all seem to say that Filipinos do. She certainly doesn’t!
We will probably establish a homebase in Phil somewhere. Then have second home elsewhere in SEAsia. Probably Malaysia. And you can bet your pwet that we will never ride junkmobile if we can help it.
My view of this site has changed. I liked this site because people seemed to be more intelligent than the others. And less anonymous. Now, I see it as a site frequented by only a handful who all share this idiotic view that things are OK. And most who say things are ok are not even living in Phil. Out of touch, ignorant remarks like “quiet jeepney rides”.
I am not leaving Phil because I have to live here, but I am leaving this site, because I don’t have to stay here.
May you all have the privilege of riding jeepney and tricycles the rest of your lives.
Jae I travel between the Philippines and Australia every two months. No doubt I see the differences between the two countries as chalk and cheese. At the end of the day the Pines is a ‘developing country’ which means it is slowing improving year by year. Things are improving, albeit very slowly but are improving non the less. With more knowledge and money the country will structurally improve with no doubt. A lot of people on this site are defending the Pines because at times the country and it’s people need support and guidance. We know what the problems are, yet it’s up to the youth to fix them. Wow I didn’t realize how tomatoes would have have such a butterfly effect lol
Hoo boy. Lost cause here. I know it's tempting fellas but what's the point, right?
Fella is just following orders and stuck in a country he despises. It's ok to feel sorry for the guy.
Cry me a river, Jae.
Post No. 20:
Agayyyyyy…….???!!! What a "HIT and RUN" post:shock:
Btw, I'm not injured…..agayyy…:mrgreen:
:evil::evil::evil:
Mga kaigsu-onan…nan..nan…nan (echo)…
Labayon natu ug "Kamatis"
(translation: My compatriot, let's throw 'Tomato' at him)
Just to make everybody cool…:lol::lol::lol:
oh no don't…let him wallow in grief of his own making!
๐ฏ
Gosh, Jae said he is not putting down Filipinos, but I read insults all over his comments. Or is it my reading comprehension?
Doesn't he know that the nipa hut is our national house? Not that I want to advocate all of us living in a nipa hut, but it's a national symbol, have some respect. And the jeepney has long been a symbol of Philippine ingenuity and part of our culture, and shouldn't be called a junkmobile. The jeepney has served and is still serving its purpose, inefficient it may be. Modern transport may replace the jeepney in the future, but it is part our history and culture and doesn't deserve to be ridiculed!
Oi Vey ๐ฏ
๐ฏ #120 ๐ฏ
#124 Ah I take it nadawat nimu akong email? hehehe katung labayan ug kamatis? LOL LOL!
Best to ignore the post, guys. Save yourself the stress. It ain't worth sullying this site.
You know he's just dying to see multiple responses. Why do him that favor?
Don't make the same mistake I did by wasting precious time explaining things. It's a thick wall out there.
Just talk about balut or something. ๐
A thick wall with a hollow core.
Drat! he got me again! ๐ก
Ah yes, balut! Chicken soup on the half shell…
Are you sure no one is going to start saying we eat balut because we are to poor and hungry to wait for the duckling to hatch before eating it ๐
I LOVE Balut – I don'tactually eat the chick though… My dogs will eat it, hehehe. ๐
I hate balut. Can't imagine why you people eat it! I guess Cheryll is right, it's because you are poor that's why you eat it! ๐ I know better than you do! ๐ My kabayans are just too lazy to wait for the egg to hatch, I will go there and teach them. Don't they know that they could eat a lot more meat if they allow the duck to mature? ๐
'Kidding of course. ๐ But I don't eat balut.
Just stop that, Jae. If you have a BEEF about our preferences in our culture and life then we also have BEEF about non-Filipinos who seriously think they can try to enforce changes in things that we Filipinos are used to. As much as we Filipinos are already complaining about how bad some aspects of living in our country, and yet we're trying our best to do something about them. The least thing we need from non-Filipinos is whining, bickering, and insults about our culture and the way we do things in our lives. The best thing you can offer is to please stop whining but offer concrete solutions that would be helpful in "improving" our lives.
Support rather than insult!
Oops, sorry Macky, I did not read your previous comment on the call to ignore this guy's comments. Well, as you've said, he also get me too. ๐
Firstly, I will say that Jeepneys are being manufactured. I am not talking about garage mechanics and such. The premier jeepney manufacturer in the Philippines is Sarao Motors in Manila, and I have heard that they make some pretty nice vehicles.
Secondly, I will say that I am not poor, and I am not forced to live here. I choose to live here. I can live anywhere in the world that I choose, and this is where I choose.
Let me say – Jae is partially right, there certainly ARE things here that don't work. However, compared to 7 years ago when I moved here, I have seen some huge gains. At that time, you couldn't call on your cellphone, and texting was even hard, because the networks were so bad. These days, I find that both Globe and Smart are quite good. I see infrastructure improvements too. There are so many things that are being improved, and I applaud that. Sure, there are still a lot of things that need to be fixed, but I choose to do my best to be part of the solution, not just a complainer.
Jae, a lot of what you say is downright wrong. I'm sorry that you have to live your life in a place that you seem to hate so much.
Sorry you guys but as a foreigner (britisher) i can have my foreign take on comments from jae post #120
me i am not a poor foreigner, yes i am married to a Filipina and i can see both sides of this argument, but isn't it a case of looking at things with a cup half full, or like Jae with cup half empty.
Like Bob, John, myself, American lola and other foreigners, actually we like the Phils, we don't think it's perfect but we like enough aspects of it to embrace it all and yes actually like it, honest Jae.
Talking about jeepneys and wether "one" would rather ride a jeepney or A.C bus, isn't really relevant, we like it here
I could afford to live in plenty of places, UK, or in fact anywhere in europe, hong kong, thailand and malaysia, in fact loads of places but i choose Davao.
I don't think it's perfect Jae, but unlike you, i like the place
Ok you got me macky, I was dying to see the response, so here I am.
As expected, shallow comments. This proves what I said before about most expats here. Blue-collar/military. Fits the profile. Incapable of distinguishing between the fine lines. Brainwashing oneself.
It's just incredible how you all fail to understand even the simple concept.
Bob says "Jae is partially right, there certainly ARE things here that don’t work" and that I am complaining about these things that don't work.
Hello, anybody up there?
I have repeatedly said that I am NOT complaining about things that don't work, but the attitude of the members here who seem to view such problems not as problems, but PREFERENCE of Filipinos. That's what I am complaining about.
And Bob, you "choose" to live in Phil, even though you can live anywhere? Where have you considered? You can't fool yourself. You narrowed your choice pretty darn fast to Phil because of your wife.
If you had non-filipina wife, you would still "choose" to live in Phil, even though you can live anywhere? That's pure BS.
Ok, I am not even curious anymore what you all are thinking or what stupid comments that you are planning to post.
I have lost absolutely all interest.
HAHAHAHA you're funny Jae….HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Guys and Gals:
Am I drunk here with Kulafu or perhaps lambanog or tuba (with glotal ending) or Kinutil!!!!I felt dizzy. Lost cause indeed. Ambot na lang, but I suggest to have another topic, Bob, something that improves my READING COMPREHENSION.
Thanks diay for the St. Peter's fish = tilapia. Hohoho! I have a new vocab. I hope it qualifies me not to be called an oxysomething.
Bob, thanks for the wonderful photo. The spring onions behind the tomatoes look healthy. ๐
Bye, Jae. Have a good life, if you can. I feel sad that you are such an unhappy, miserable guy. Call it what you want, but some people choose to be contented wth who they are and where they are. We choose not to be miserable. No place on earth is without serious problems, most of which are related to the fact that there are people everywhere you go, and people aren't always easy to live with. Just because you fail to make us mad and as miserable as you are, you label us with various labels that you clearly thnk are demeaning, but it won't stick. We know who we are and why we are here, and you don't. Your prejudices are just that: your prejudices. You see the rest of us through those bars, but you are the one behind them, imprisoned, not us. It's okay if you don't read this blog anymore, and if you don't comment here, I am sure you will find someone else to vent on. I hope it will not be your wife. And I sincerely hope that you will find contentment and peace in your life.
Eww…I thought I was a victim of ‘Hit and Run’.:lol:
For Filipino posters, I think we’re hit by this statement:
“I have repeatedly said that I am NOT complaining about things that don’t work, but the attitude of the members here who seem to view such problems not as problems, but PREFERENCE of Filipinos. That’s what I am complaining about”.
So, Jae, here’s my shallow comment for you.
If you have the problem of the PREFERENCE of the Filipinos, therefore the PREFERENCE of your wife (Filipina) to marry you was the biggest problem/mistake she’d ever made. That’s all.
Hello Everyone,
Woke up this morning and read the comments. Couldn't stop laughing! I have mental pictures of what everyone looks like (based on their comments). I was imagining everyone in the same room and people's reactions, facial expressions and all, to the posts. It is really hilarious! Made my day! ๐
Oh, it's sunny today, about 64 deg F, the sun shining thru my window. It's going to be a beautiful day. Hmmmm, maybe I'll go and rent that movie. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to find some green tomatoes…
Oh what a wonderful world! Have a good day/evening everyone! ๐
Hi Angie,
If you're having trouble finding durian in California, why don't you come to NYC? NYC is lovely in the fall. We can do the museums, theatre, foliage, etc. I'm serious! Let me know, okay? ๐
Jae,
I think what you see here is that people from the Philippines are very very proud not only of themselves but of their country. With my limited experience I have found it best not to be in the slightest bit critical of either the person or the country. However if you are diplomatic you can engage them in conversation about a topic and they will then come round and be critical about themselves if it is warranted. This is just a national trait and much on this subject is written elsewhere.
Concerning the jeepney etc. another trait is that people from the Philippines are very ambitious and want to get on, thats why they travel all over the world to work. I would have thought that those who walk would dream of a bicycle, those that have bicycles, would want to ride the jeepney, and those in the jeepney would long to own a car. Thats only a normal human desire. What they do not want is an outsider telling them that, which leads you back to the national pride trait I mentioned.
Discussion is good, your point of view is honestly felt, please dont leave the blog.
Scott
Sorry to veer away…but anybody in Davao felt the quake there?
Scott,
Unless Jae changes his style, he will not be effective. Readers on this blog will ignore his comments because they realize that his comments will be full of venom and irrational rantings. Who wants to deal with that? You may, we don't. If there is something you want to discuss with him, maybe you should email each other. Spare us the insults, okay?
Tina,
Have I said something insulting ? If so it was not my intention.
Regards,
Scott
Scott,
Insults from Jae, not you. Sorry, should have been more specific. ๐
Hi Tina,
Should have kept my head below the parapet with all these shots flying about ๐
No problem !
Regards,
Scott
Interesting point, Scott and Tina (yeah, yeah, here I am again. This is basically internet crack for me. Rivetting theatre: It's like a disullisioned gargamel terrorizing the village smurfs. What will happen next?…i researched "gargamel". Tells ya right there I need help).
Scott imparts a more inclusive tone. Welcoming open and frank discussion and implores an undesirable to reconsider his return.
Tina on the other hand believes discussions will be stonewalled if the "People's champ" returns (Hey, he is speaking for the Filipino poor, right? Practically sacrificing himself in this squalor we call home. Hence, "People's champ", Besides, I don't feel like typing his name at the moment). What's the use of healthy discourse if it is derailed by constant venom and irrational rants?
Both good points. This is not my site so I'll leave that to the mods to decide. But my two cents is that, I am one who is wary of any form of forced ostracization. As much as I hate the idea, if we choose that route we run the risk of sterilizing our discussions.
I like to hear points from all walks of life. In real life, you sometimes bump into the random weirdo. These talkbacks mirror life. I wouldn't extend "The Champ" a return invitation but if he does, his comments should be welcome — I'll just choose to ignore it if he decides to go back to peak season form. Am I being to harsh with my words. Maybe. I'm trying to put some jest in them (but then again, that got me in trouble before).
Hey Bob,
In a roundabout way, it's weird but this discussion still ties in with the topic at hand. You know, the expert expat who "knows better than they do". And we are already in comment #150. This is becoming the Wilt Chamberlain of talkbacks.
OMG!!!! I posted #87 yesterday, and now Macky's #150!
Jae, you're right! For most of us here, family is the only reason why we love and defend Philippines. Also, we're brought up being patriotic, so I hope that sums all up. BTW, if I'm born Korean, I will love and defend Korea too.
Peace everyone! ๐
Hi macky – That is indeed true. We have a live example to show the meaning of the post!
Different cultures.Different traditions and beliefs. RESPECT is very important most especially if you are in other country, your culture is different with us. Let's try to "adopt" so we can understand. Thank you.:>
hee hee
' I know better then they do " ..Bob I'm a union carpenter so the second time I came to Philippines I was intending to work on my house with the carpenters that my wife hired ..After I got there and surveyed the house and the construction work ..and the carpenter arrived and started to work I watch him for a few minutes and then I decided not to interfere with their way of working .. Bob it was nothing like I expected so I just watched ..and it was a very interesting experience to me ..and YES Bob I like green tomatoes ..fried ,stuffed and in a pie ….green or red they are good to eat .. Phil n Jess PS green ones last longer too ")
Yes it was Bob and I didn't want to get involved and as my wife said " this is the way we do it in the Philippines " I played sidewalk supervisor…just watched and talk to the carpenter .. …Phil n Jess
Haha, on the green tomatoes. I'm in the Philippines for the first time visiting my fiance, however, I have lived outside the country quite a bit. We went to the supermarket, a very large and very nice place even by state side standards, and we where getting groceries when she grabbed green tomatoes. I said hunny, those tomatoes are green don't you want to get some ripe red ones,"as I saw some sitting right beside the ones she'd picked up". She said no she liked the green ones. And I know my wife to be being a very smart and intelligent said what she meant and meant what she said. I didn't say another word as I knew that she deliberately picked the green over the red and it must be for good reason.
Lol I didn’t realise how old this thread was, anyway it was a fantastic read. Time warp.
Glad you enjoyed it, Boss.
I’m going to try raising tomatoes in a 5 gallon bucket.
We live on the beach and there is no soil for growing.
We have plenty flowers and can grow things by bringing
in small amounts o9f soil and mixing it with the sand there.
Will report after my experment
Good luck, Ray, I hope it works out for you.