Buying or Renting in the Philippines?
Why I think it is better to rent
Should you be renting in the Philippines? Sometime in the past, I published an article here about renting a place to live. Almost immediately after the article was published, a number of people questioned why I would be renting in the Philippines instead of buying a property. Jim Cunningham put it in a non-confrontational way, simply wondering why I would choose to rent.
Stupid Me
Thomas Gil called me stupid for renting. Hmm… it’s the first time in years that I have been accused of being stupid, but if that is what Thomas thinks, well, so be it. The fact is that I have some real concrete reasons why I would prefer to rent. For others, like Jim or Thomas, if they wish to own a property, that is their decision, and I do not think that they are wrong for doing so, but the fact is that owning a house in the Philippines is not my choice, at least not at this time.
So, what would be my reasons for wanting to be renting in the Philippines instead of owning a house?
Timing
First, timing is a key factor. Right now, my youngest child is in grade 4. He will finish High School in about 6 years from now. At the time that our youngest child finishes High School, we probably will choose to no longer live in Davao.
We won’t be in Davao forever
The fact is that there are things about Davao that we are really becoming disillusioned with. The city is becoming way too crowded and congested for our taste. Traffic in Davao is a nightmare, and it seems that little or nothing is being done to alleviate the problem. So, it is unlikely that we will remain in Davao after our youngest child finishes school.
Because our current place of residence, Davao City, is a place that we have come to consider only temporary, the temptation to own a home here is simply not there. We don’t have the desire.
Economic Prudence
Jim mentioned in his comment that being economically astute dictated that you should own a house instead of renting in the Philippines. He mentioned something along the lines of paying rent was like throwing money away.
I am sorry, but I disagree with that. Let’s look at some numbers.
The rental price is low
The house where I am currently living had been offered to us for sale a number of years ago. The price was P20 Million Pesos. Now, I renting in the Philippines of almost P38,000. In US Dollars, at today’s exchange rate, the asking price for this house would be $476,000. My rent in US Dollars would be $883.
Take the cash and invest it
OK, so if I take $476,000 to buy a house, or to build one, it could save me from paying $883 per month. Alternatively, if I took $476,000 and invested it with an annual return of just 5%, my return would be $23,800 annually or $1,983 per month. I could invest that money at 5% (in normal economic times that is a quite conservative return) and the interest on the money would pay my rent and also produce an extra $1,100 per month of income for me. If I buy the house, I no longer have the principal, and I save $883 per month. If I were able to get 7% interest instead of 5%, my monthly return becomes $2,776, an increase of about $800 per month!
Other financial responsibilities
On top of the simple interest calculation, if I own the house I am also responsible for other things. Property taxes. Repairs on the house, and such.
Frankly, given these kinds of numbers, it makes no sense to buy.
Less than 1%
In the USA, Real Estate investors generally shoot to get a minimum of 1% of the property’s value each month as rent. That makes economic sense and makes it prudent to buy a property. I have been paying only 2/10ths of one percent of the property value for rent! That’s almost like they are giving it to me! Economically, buying property in the Philippines is a losing proposition.
Ah, I know that many are saying that if you buy a house, it will appreciate in value, so it is an investment. Fact is, that is not necessarily true. Especially if you do a large house at the top end, the odds of it appreciating in the Philippine market are small, in fact, the odds are that it will remain the same, or even decrease in value.
Hard to sell
If you own a house and decide you want to move – maybe you want to go back to the US or wherever you came from, or maybe you want to go to Bohol, Cebu or some other place in the Philippines, the fact is that a higher end property, especially one built “for an expat” who has different tastes than the local market, is very hard to sell. I have seen houses that are up for sale for years here. I have also seen expats who decided to “go home” and had to sell their dream house for a fraction of what they spent to build it.
At the time of publication, my wife and I have decided to return to the USA and will be leaving the Philippines soon. Not being stuck with a house to sell makes things much easier for us, I can assure you.
Freedom and Flexibility
As I have told about repeatedly on this site, I have had some serious issues with my neighbors in the past year. If I owned the house, I would be stuck here and could not just move to a new neighborhood. As Dave Starr mentioned in a comment, what if I had neighbors who decided to open a metal shop, or a pig farm next door? There would be little I could do. If I am renting in the Philippines, I can just move somewhere else. If I owned the place, I would be stuck.
Other Options
Any regular reader knows that Feyma and I own property on Samal Island. We have talked about building a house there. Because of some of the things I mentioned above about Davao, we feel that we don’t want to live in Davao in the future, and that includes Samal. Maybe we will change our minds over the years that are coming, we are not sure. But, right now, we have other options in mind. I have not mentioned here, but Feyma also owns other lands in other parts of the Philippines (in Mindanao and in the Visayas), and these other places are possibilities for our longer-term living. Maybe we will be in Davao, maybe not. Right now, we are leaning toward not making Davao our long-term home, though. Why would I want to buy a house that could be very hard to get rid of in the long run?
We all have our opinions
The truth is, there are a lot of reasons why, at this time in my life, I feel it is better for me to be renting in the Philippines. If others think it is unwise, I have no problem with whatever they think, but I also know what is right for me. Am I stupid for renting in the Philippines? I don’t think so. If some people think I am, I don’t really lose any sleep at night worrying about what they think. Additionally, I don’t lose any sleep worrying about whether I should continue renting in the Philippines or own a house in the Philippines. I know what is right for me. I don’t know why others think that I should live by what is right for them.
You are free to your own opinion
There are reasons to own property too, I am not saying that there are not. The biggest one is simply because you want to own your house. For some, it means peace of mind to own their house. For others, like me, they get peace of mind not being tied down to a property.
We owned our house in the USA, so we are not anti-owning. I am, however, anti-owning-in-the-Philippines. At least for now, given my life situation, and my future plans.
I have no issues with those who want to own, it is their decision. I don’t understand why my wish to rent my house should be a concern for others.
Thoughts from former LiP writer, Dave Starr
As many of you already know, my wife and I renting in the Philippines. To many Americans, long accustomed to buying more house than they can afford because “real estate always goes up” renting in the Philippines instead of buying is perceived as a very bad thing … an admission that I am unsuccessful or one step ahead of personal bankruptcy or the bill collector. Yet another “ran off to the Philippines failure” in some people’s view, I am sure.
Well, opinions are just like armpits, everyone is entitled to a few, but for those that do feel that way, my own opinion is, you would be wrong. I am heading into my retirement with zero debt. Zero, as in “don’t owe nobody”. My car is near-new and paid off, I have money in the bank in both countries, and the next significant money my wife and I are planning to spend is traveling for pleasure … for cash, nothing on the cards.
It doesn’t make sense right now
The economics of trying to buy a home as we live in now just doesn’t make sense. I know I have written about it before, but maybe not here on LiP. Basically, I can pay my current rental rate for 10 or 11 years before the investment I’ve made equals what a normal down payment for a house in this price range would be … and then I’d have to take on a loan for 15 or 20 years to pay off the balance. Regardless of the dollars and pesos involved, I doubt I’ll be living in this house 10 years from now, so it makes no sense at all to me.
That being said, there are a couple things you need to keep in mind if you are thinking about moving to the Philippines and renting in the Philippines:
Repairs and Improvements
In general, Philippine landlords are not obligated to “take care” of their tenants to the degree US landlords are. I’ve even been offered houses to rent that lacked a working toilet. “Oh sir, once you sign the lease and make your deposit the landlord will order the repairs.” Yep. And I have some ocean-front property in Arizona to sell you too, if you believe that fairy tale. Our editor here, Bob, reports he has an excellent landlord who is atop all repairs right away, whenever asked. That’s great. It is also not the norm.
Deposits
Ah, yes, the magical deposit. In my area, the typical lease asks for first and last month and one extra month’s rent as a damage deposit. Allegedly this will be returned upon the satisfactory termination of the lease. In practice, this seldom happens. The order of normal business I am aware of is this … you will likely be allowed to just live out the last couple months for free in lieu of an actual deposit return. If the landlord doesn’t agree to this, what is he going to do, evict you? You were leaving anyway. Again, like everything YMMV, but I certainly don’t expect my deposit back, even though the house is in a heck of a lot better condition now than when we first started renting in the Philippines.
Post Dated Checks
A very common business practice here in the Philippines, for any regular recurring debt, is to write a year or more worth of checks, in advance, dating each check for the month it is due and handing them all over to the landlord. It’s common, and it works for some people. I don’t like it. I am honored because I have relatives nearby, known to the landlord, to be able to pay my rent in cash each month and I do consider it an honor. Especially since I don’t have a Philippine checking account and am in no hurry to get one. Think this through before you get too far down the road on a house you may be interested in renting in the Philippines.
Utilities
When Bob pointed up the need to always keep receipts. It is likely your landlord may keep the utilities in his/her own name and just expect you to pay the bills for each month of use. Very unlikely that you can change this arrangement, even if you want to. For example, the electric company is very unlikely to even give you service as a foreigner without permanent residency status and some history of living here.
Not a big issue
Works ok for me and many others, but there is one huge caveat. Make sure any account you are thinking of accepting this arrangement on is current. If, for example, the last tenant ran up big charges, guess who is going to pay the charges in order to get the service turned on? Do you have a mirror handy?
An American friend just about went berserk on this issue a few years back. He rented a house that had a phone line but did not get the phone turned on at the time. A month or so later he visited the phone carrier’s office and asked for service. The smiling clerk said, “Certainly, sir, the charge will be about 50,000 Pesos.” After my friend picked himself up off the floor, he asked why.
Oops, unpaid bill!
Well, turns out that is what the last tenant had run up and skipped out on. Now to people imbued with a sense of fairness, as many of us are, this just sounds unthinkable. My friend didn’t make those calls, why should he pay for them? The landlord certainly didn’t make the calls, so why should he pay for them? The phone company, though, is a public utility. It’s their job to collect the bills owed them. You want service on that phone line, then you pay the bill.
I guess a cellular phone will do
Eventually, after a lot of harsh words, arms waving and elevated blood pressure, my friend just gave up on the idea of a landline phone. But the exact same thing could happen with an electricity account or water. It’s a lot harder to live without electricity or water. So before agreeing to take on any utility accounts, visit the utility in question … the landlord may not even know about unpaid charges … and inquire for yourself. You can not fix a problem like this after the fact, you have to have reliable information before you sign a lease, or, just like in playing tag, you are “it”.
Neighbors and Noises
A foreigner friend lives nearby and suffers greatly from noise. The neighbor on one side of my friend’s home in our residential neighborhood actually runs a commercial sheet metal manufacturing business out of his house and driveway. All day and sometimes into the night metal gets beaten into shape, welds get made (just great for the power in my friend’s house) the welds get nosily ground down, the parts get spray painted with clouds of smelly spray paint, and noisy trucks deliver and pick up often.
The is essentially no concept of zoning and conforming use laws in many towns. And there is no one who is going to go out and enforce any that do exist in many cases. How did my friend get into such a pickle? Easy.
Afraid of the skin tax
He was so afraid that the landlord would charge him a higher price because he was a foreigner, he sent his sister-in-law to look at the house and negotiate the price. The lady did a fine job, my friend only pays PHP 1,000 more a month than I do, which is the going rate for these houses. But to the sister-in-law, the sheet metal shop next door was nothing unusual at all … in fact some would consider it an asset, because if you had an unemployed bum or a drug dealer living next door, things could be worse, diba?
Dave’s advice? (and it’s only my opinion, of course).
Forget about this sometimes overblown fear of being ripped off with a foreigner price. You can easily find out what things are supposed to cost without sticking your nose in first. Then go look at any house you are going to rent yourself and make your own decision. In particular, as part of the process, introduce yourself to the neighbors on each side and the lot on the street behind you. It only makes good sense to me, you are the one who has to live there, and you should do your own research.
If something about the neighbor scares you or turns your stomach … or if the neighbor seems hostile toward you, wouldn’t it make sense to find out before the landlord has your deposit money and your signed lease?
Another former LiP writer, John Meile also chimed in
We renting in the Philippines. Buying a house in the Philippines is not really something we have ever considered. Why? There are a number of reasons, but I’ll come to that later. Real estate articles on here tend to get emotional responses. What I’ve written is my experience only. Some people may have done things differently.
A little different
Renting in the Philippines is somewhat different than in many other locations in the world, particularly in the United States. Though, before moving here I had rented abroad previously, some expectations I had got quickly changed once I renting in the Philippines. Some common things that are different:
- Locating a place. In the United States and the UAE, if you wanted to find a place to rent, you got online or got the local classifieds. Generally, the rents were spelled out, fixed based on the unit or square footage, and are accurate and up-to-date for the most part. Trying to renting in the Philippines while you are still abroad is a nearly impossible task. Listings online or in the paper frequently are months old, rents are typically unspecified or not accurate, or the photos posted might not match. The landlord can pretty much choose the amount he will rent to you. Discrimination is not only legal, but many Filipinos expect it. If you are moving here from abroad, it is best to budget a few weeks in a hotel and search in person. If not, at least a couple of days and pick an initial, short-term rental until you can find time to really look. Additionally, having a Filipino, say a relative of asawa or girlfriend, search for you will surely lead to disappointment. How can they possibly know what you really want? If you are working here or going to school (or you have kids), traffic in Manila should dictate where you live more than any other factor, unless you want to spend a quarter of your life sitting on EDSA and commuting. You cannot know some of these things until you first stay here a while. If you bought, you are pretty much locked-in.
- Move-in rents typically require four months minimum rental deposit. (Usually First, Last, and at least two months, usually more, security). This is pretty standard here. Compare versus the States where a typical flat might only require two months all-in.
- Furnished apartments here typically have furniture that is the absolute cheapest possible. Executive long-stay places are not nearly as common here as in major business centers (Though they do exist).
- A common practice here is for landlords to collect twelve post-dated rent checks in advance of move-in, and with lease renewal. Not all, but many, if not most, do this. Some landlords will allow the deposit to be used as last month rent if they are allowed to inspect for damage before the lease expires.
- Retrieving security deposits is not as easy as it may seem. Many renters here have great difficulty retrieving deposits. A good tenant/landlord relationship makes this much easier.
- Annual rent increases are capped by law at 3%… How many landlords observe this law? Not many. Again, a good relationship with your landlord is critical. (In our case, she increases 3% every two years, which is fair and reasonable).
- Typically, the renter is responsible for any and all maintenance (Something about renting in the Philippines that is very different from renting in the USA). This includes things like plumbing, electrical, and upkeep. We were able to negotiate with our landlord on a leaky roof and some termite damage, but some landlords hold you to the letter of the agreement.
- Most flats, houses, and apartments here are basically nothing more than four walls. On move-in, we needed to buy all the appliances, aircon, water heaters, light fixtures, new locks, and shower heads. We were also responsible for replacing broken water fixtures if we didn’t want to use the broken ones. This is why I do not recommend renting in the Philippines from abroad… You never know what you will find until you move in.
- Renters insurance, while useful in the USA, is effectively useless here.
Now, there are advantages to renting in the Philippines: Big advantages. We have had several opportunities to buy while living here. Passed on all of them. Some of the pros and cons of renting in the Philippines:
Renting in the Philippines: the pros and cons
Pros:
- You cannot know the quality of a neighborhood from abroad. Relying on what the family says is no good either. If you buy in an area, without knowing flood history, traffic, convenience, security in advance, you are opening yourself up to disappointment and a potentially large financial loss. If you are renting in the Philippines and don’t like the neighbors, place, etc., you are limited only by the terms of your lease. How do you know that the neighbors’ roosters crow at 3:00 am until you move in? Read Bob’s earlier article which detailed the call center that went up next door. Before living here, I was told that I should look at an area in Marikina. Wanna guess which area had massive floods? If I had purchased, I would have been stuck. Say you move close to asawa’s family, and there are problems. If you own, you cannot easily move away from the situation (I was lucky… No such issues). Place that house in the province… Now what ya’ gonna do? By renting in the Philippines, we have flexibility if we need it.
- You cannot own anything here, except for a condo. Yeah, people say they “own”. You own nothing. Your spouse or whoever you bought the house for owns it. If you are in a long-term, stable relationship, then the difference is quibbling over terms. If not, a BIG difference, regardless of what anyone tells you the law is or how they “bought” some land. Say you lease land and build a house. You DO NOT own the house, but not the land, as has been posted many times online. Under Philippine law, the house becomes part of the land (same thing, BTW, if you make “improvements” to a rental… We added a gate to our house. When we move, the gate stays behind unless we but the house back to original condition). As to condos, they do not necessarily only mean an apartment. Many subdivisions with single-family homes are designated as condominiums. Also relating to condos, their value is always dependent on how well they are maintained. Ever look at building maintenance here? Buildings, were they in the States, that would look 40 years old are often relatively new, perhaps only ten years. Now, Rebecca and I have been married four years, together nearly six, and known each other for nine years. We are stable, I trust her 110%, but we still rent. Why? Yeah, owning a place might give her a little more security, but she doesn’t want to be tied here permanently (What if I croak? What if I am transferred? Say that Juanito inherits… Does he want to live here?) Selling a property in the Philippines can be an exhausting, trying, and expensive task.
- Rents are much cheaper in the Philippines than house payments. Typically less than 1% of the value. We are renting in the Philippines because of the economics work.
- The real estate market in the Philippines is terrible. If you think you will make money by buying a house, think again (Unless you are in a very highly desirable location, like in the CBD, or on the beach, or something similar). Many foreigners start building something here and the project is abandoned (The relationship went sour, they ran out of money, they ran into squatter or legal issues). The area around Rebecca’s place has numerous gigantic houses built for foreigners or OFWs that are virtually unsalable (Too expensive for the region). If you are planning to buy or build something and live in it until you die, then perhaps this is not a concern, but it is unlikely that you will make money. Those who make money in real estate in the Philippines either are playing in the luxury market (very limited), or are dealing with multi-unit rentals. Over the years, in the States, I was always told that real estate was a great investment. For many years, it was. Many of those same people who hounded me have eaten those words.
- Mortgages in the Philippines are very difficult to acquire and offer terrible terms and APR. Though some foreigners can “help” by being listed on a mortgage, since you cannot own land here, the bank will generally not issue a mortgage in your name alone. Banks view foreigners as debt risks, so unless your asawa’s family is well-off and she has the ability to qualify on her own, you are most likely out of luck. Not impossible, but very difficult. If you are over the age of 50, then forget this option entirely. Banks in the Philippines can, and do, discriminate based on age. Since those over 50 are more likely to kick off before the mortgage is paid, you are therefore a greater risk, no matter how good your pension or how much money you have. Though we could likely qualify for a mortgage here (The way I set up our accounts will do that… We were offered 35% DP and 10 years at 14%… Much higher foreigner rates), the financial requirements simply do not add up: We would lose a bundle except by paying cash, and even then the numbers do not make much financial sense.
Cons:
- If you own, you can build, modify, add-on any way you damn well, please. Zoning in the Philippines is either weak or non-existent in most places. Do you want to start a fireworks factory in a residential area? Paint it purple with lime green accents? Build a sari-sari? No problem in many cases (Though the HOA might have an issue with that). However, your neighbors are free to do the same. In the provinces, with land all around, then most likely no big deal. In Makati? Might be a big deal.
- Asawa security. With no divorce in the Philippines, many Filipinas view a house as security in their old age. Now, in my case, Rebecca doesn’t hold that view. However, many people here do hold that view. For those dating online and such, when a Filipina asks you to build a house, in many ways it is security should you decide to dump her or leave the country. May sound harsh, but facts are facts. Home, or land, ownership is also the one thing that shows true social status in the community… More than money or anything else. When Rebecca grew up, those who owned land never went hungry. Is that the case today? Probably not. But when you are raised believing it, a very different view. Is it worth the risks and hassles? Only each individual can decide for themselves, but buying something immediately, or sight unseen, is simply asking for trouble, regardless of reason. In the Philippines, real estate and the laws related to it are completely different than what expats will be familiar. At least when you live here a while before buying or building, you can truly know the reality.
Let’s talk about Renting in the Philippines vs. Buying
Hi friends! It’s Podcast day again today! Because of that, I am back with another episode of the Expat Answer Man! I hope you have been enjoying the show. it iis fun to do a voice post instead of just written words. I hope you also realize that there are multiple ways you can get and listen to this Podcast! We have a listing on iTunes, where you can listen to the show. You can also listen right here on the website. You can even download the show and listen in your car or using your cell phone or iPod while working out or just enjoying your day. Hopefully, the diversity of methods for you to get this information and entertainment is useful for you.
The Age Old Question
Today, it’s a discussion that has been hashed out many times over the years here on LiP. What was the question? Is it better to be renting in the Philippines or to buy a place to live in the Philippines? We have gone through this one so many times on this site, but I suppose it’s time we talk about it again! I know the timing is right because I got a question via SpeakPipe from Tommy asking just that question!
My mind is made up about renting in the Philippines
Most readers who have been around for a while will know that I am pretty firm in my thinking that renting in the Philippines is the way to go, at least as an initial way of living here.
It takes time to make sure that you made the right move when you traveled here, and if you buy, you may find it difficult to get rid of your house if you should decide to return to your home country, or if you think that moving to another part of the Philippines is right for you.
Why not give the podcast a listen and see what you think! If you think that paying rent is a waste of money, listen to my reasoning and see what you think? Still, think I’m wrong? No problem, we all have to make our own choice, but why not tell me in the comments how you reach your conclusion? It might make for an interesting discussion!
[powerpress]
Rental deposits in the Philippines
Renting in the Philippines is something that I highly recommend. At least for the first few years. Truth is, renting in the Philippines makes economic sense. Rental costs in the Philippines are relatively low compared to the cost of owning a home. This is not the case in much of the world. Renting in the Philippines makes economic sense, and common sense too.
Why do I recommend renting in the Philippines?
Well, there are a few reasons. Firstly, if you build to the standards that you are accustomed to, it will very likely be very difficult to sell. Most houses here are not built to US standards. Also, people here might not like the design of your “American style” house. What Filipinos like, and what we like is not always the same. Nothing wrong with that, we are just different, as would be expected. However, if you build the house that you like, and decide to move somewhere else, you may never be able to sell the house.
Don’t be too sure
Most foreigners come here dead set that they are going to live in a certain place. They are sure of it. I came here with the idea that I was 100% certain that I wanted to live in General Santos City. After two years there, I decided to move to Davao City instead. It’s a move that I have never regretted. After living in Davao, though, I have decided that this is not the place where I will live forever. There are a number of reasons for that, which are outside the scope of this article. But, the fact is, I am very happy that I have continued renting in the Philippines.
Somebody asked me the other day, though, about deposits on rentals. How much do you have to deposit, and can you ever get your deposit back? Let me try to answer those questions.
How much deposit?
How much do you need to deposit when you rent a house in the Philippines? Well, there is no law about it that I am aware of. It is simply something that you negotiate with the landlord at the time of rental. While living in the Philippines, I don’t think I have ever put down more than a 2-month deposit. This is a security deposit, to ensure that you do not damage the place. It also ensures that you pay all the bills when you move out. For example, if the electric bill wasn’t paid the deposit will be used to cover that. Same goes for telephone, water, or whatever else you may have on a monthly billing.
Now, I said previously that I have always given 2 months deposit. Sometimes I have been asked for more but I have always been able to negotiate it down to 2 months. If the demand is too much, just walk away.
Will you get the deposit back?
What about getting your deposit refunded? Well, legally, the landowner must refund your deposit. Unless it used to make repairs to damage you caused or to pay bills that were left unpaid. That is the law. In practice, though, it can be difficult to get that deposit back. I have come up with a way that has ensured that I get my deposit back every time. I suppose it can still be circumvented, but in my experience, that has never happened.
How do I do it?
I leave the deposit asked for, say 2 months. Then, as my contract is coming near the end, I go and talk to the landlord. I do this a couple months before the end of the lease.
Also, I explain that I will be leaving when the contract ends. I also tell the landlord that I have maintained the house well. Usually leaving it in better condition than when I moved in. I invite the landlord to come and have a look if he would like to do so. Usually, this invitation is declined, and the landlord simply accepts my word that the house is in good condition.
Next, I ask the landlord if there will be any problems in returning the deposit that I left with them. I watch to see if he indicates that he doesn’t have the money. If so, I simply propose that I stay in the house for the last two months rent free.
So far, so good
So far, in every case, this method has worked. There have been times when the landlord has assured me that he has the money to refund my deposit. There have also been times when I lived rent-free for two months. In either case, though, I have always gotten my deposit back.
My view is that you should maintain a good relationship with your landlord. Treat him with respect, and keep the lines of communication open. If you do that, he will treat you fairly. Of course, there are some landlords who are bad people and will not keep his word. However, in my experience, so far I have not had that problem. I think that such a problem would certainly happen in a small minority of situations.
So, that’s how it has worked for me. Every person is different, but these are my experiences with rental deposits.
Hi Bob, Im glad I am the first to comment on this subject – probably because its 01.10am in the morning and i am up to my old tricks of browsing endlessly, you make some valid points, everyones reasons for building or buying will be different, motivating factors come into the decision, in my case, the factors are, investment in retirement, the fact that my Filipino citizen wife will benefit, and thirdly the cost of land is increasing.
Renting though is excellent advice, and if you dont like the lifestyle, you can always head west again, there is nothing better it seems than a try before you buy package, as always Bob you have it spot on.
the one thing that appeals to me is the option of building a home with your own design preference. i agree, after finally deciding that the country is right for you, maybe see if you can build. i would. instead of the usual cookie cutter homes here in the states, you get to play with your own floorplan.
Hi Bob,
We are at present working on plans to settle in Davao, if it all works out we could be over there with you quite soon.
I recently spent six weeks living in Sto.Totomas with my inlaws, wandering the streets, in the markets, drinking in the bars etc. to see if I could live in Mindanao without any great culture shock. As it turned out I no real problems and it did not dissuade me from moving to Mindanao. Perhaps I have an advantage in that I once lived in Madagascar before.
Could you tell us some of the precise reasons that foreigners give when they decide to return to the West after coming to Mindanao to settle ? What is it that they generally cannot cope with ?
Thanks in advance,
Scott [ and Rhodora ]
Bob I will second Scott on that, as I thought of a similar reply after making the first reply, can you expand and tell individual stories as you saw them, in why foreigners decided to come back to their native lands, it would be of great help to many of us, you are there so you get to see the ones who throw in the towel as we would say.
Hi Peter – the investment part of the argument is one that I didn't include in the article, and I should have. It's certainly a good thing to consider.
Hi Macky – I agree with you. For somebody like you or me, who works at home, it's even more important. We are not only designing our living space, but our work space too, and that makes it all the more important for it to be "just right".
Hi Scott and Peter – Good points. I will soon try to make a post about why people can't make it here, and why they leave.
Hi Bob, another great article! Once before my wife and I (we're both Filipinos) talked about buying land in the PI were we plan to retire. Although retirement is still years away we thought it's a good idea to purchase just the land for now and have a house built when we retire. As Peter B. said, land is getting pricier so if we're 100% sure in retiring in the PI we might as well invest in buying the land now. Anyway, our little conversation did not go very far because if I remember correctly, PI has problems with squatters. How do you keep squatters from living in your land when you are not around?
My parents currently have these issues with squatters. They have quit a bit of land in Cagayan de Oro and every 2-3 years they fly to PI to check the land for "trespassers". Several times they encountered people living in there land with "bahay kubo" or make shift houses. They usually have to spend money for lawyers and bulldozers just to get them out. They eventually would come back after a month after my parents head back to the states. This seems to be a big hassle especially if we don't have any relatives in the PI that we can count on. Any ideas on how this issues are usually dealt with? By the way, my parents land is somewhere in the boodocks so local enforcement is zero.
Bob,
I've been reading your Blog for a while now and it's really good. Really looking forward to an answer on Joe's question about squatters. Me and my wife (she's Philipina), have land in Cavite, no squatters yet, but it is a constant worry. She's going over this fall to pay taxes on the land and to make sure there are no squatters, possiblly build apartments on it. Any suggestions or comments?
Hi Joe and Ed – Thanks for stopping by my blog! The issue of squatters is an interesting one. I will address it on a post on the blog sometime this week. Thanks for the suggestion.
I will be looking forward to your post on squatters. When I was visiting my fiancee's family in Samar last month, her uncle and I looked at some nice ocean front property as I had expressed an interest in buying some land – yes, I know I can't own the land but I trust my fiancee and her family. Ultimately we will build a home there but that is several years down the road -see your other post about leasing, owning, or building. 🙂
Anyways, there were lots of squatters on the land. It was wall to wall “bahay kubo”. I asked the uncle about it and he told me not to worry because they would have to move. I said – sorry, but that is a good way to get a "shiver in the dark". 😮 note the Dire Straits reference 🙄
Forcing these poor people out of their homes is not how I want to begin life in Samar. Yes, legally I could do it and my fiancee's family would make sure it stayed squatter free but my personal morals will not allow me to do it.
Now, they have found some ocean front property in another barangay that is squatter free for only 600P per square meter. My sweet Lord, 600P per square meter? :grin::roll:
Hi Bob. I just stumbled on your site and only have 1 thing to say…. "THANK YOU". I'm leaving in a week for Manila and planning an extended stay and the topics that I've read so far have been extremely helpful. For example, when I get to Manila I'll be looking for a condo or townhouse to stay in for 6 months. After that a new condo my friend owns should be completed and I can move in there. While searching online for potential places to stay I noticed that everyone was requiring a 1 year lease… your insight into a shorter term is a tremendous help for me. Thank you!!!
Hi Ben – Happy to be of service! I'm glad you found the site. One thing to watch out for – be very careful of apartment or real estate prices on the Internet. They are often inflated in hopes of hooking a foreigner who doesn't know the real price. Good luck on your trip!
Another consideration is to ensure any land you are buying is lean free and that you are purchasing from the actual owner. This usually takes a lawyer (not as expensive as you would think). Possible check twice so some time later someone doesn't appear from nowhere claiming your land is theirs and evicting YOU as the squatter!
Hi Ray – Good thought! Checking for a clear title is always important in any real estate transaction here!
Its a very good story Bob, the one I thing I find in the Philippines is that important documents are very slow to obtain, it always amazes me just how "They never seem to be ready" or "The Attorney is not there to do it" or "The attorney is away on holiday so they can't finish it" I mean whats wrong with these people ? is there only 1 attorney in the office that can sign a lease or notorize it, I often wonder if they are all on vacation permanently. I find your story very true Bob, we also have the same problem, with official documents, it seems to drag on and drag on, and they don't seem to have any concern about time management.
This is where you have to push them for the copy of your lease or buyers contract, because as you have said Bob, you have no legal recourse to fight them, if you dont have the correct documentation, in the words of Fox Mulder "trust no-one". i THINK that just about sums it up dont you boys ?
Pete
I don't agree, totally don't agree, i just posted a comment on another of Bobs sites saying i had always been treated fairly in the Phils, unfortunately Bob, you had a bad one here but you sorted it out and moved on………..good luck to you Pete, sorry if you had some bad experiences
Hi Pete – I agree with a lot of what you are saying. It is important to get those papers, you can't just forget about it like I did! I should have gotten a copy to keep while they were out for notary, and replaced them with notarized copies after they came back.
Hi Rick – I don't think Pete is saying the treatment is unfair. He is saying that is how it is, and I agree. Everybody gets that kind of action, not just foreigners. You have to stay on top of it. I agree with you too, I am treated fairly here, just like everybody else, almost all the time.
It's the Philippines, everyone is on permanant vacation LOL, love it or leave it. It's taken me a month to get together all the paperwork from my upcoming marriage, and they just seem to want copies of everything in triplicate. As for renting, my landlord is ok. I'm renting a 3br, 3cr townhome in lanang for 18,000/month, complete with maids quarters. Back in April the the landlord approached about me about buying the place outright, seems he's tired of taking care of this row of townhomes as they were built in 1963, and getting quite old by philippine standards. I will pay 1.5milyon maybe 2 for the place but no more… it needs some serious cosmetic work to make it look nice and I hope he takes that into consideration when fixing a price, but I won't hope too much.
Hi Rick, well what can I say, glad for once someone does not agree with me, thats the beauty of Blogging, my point though is that I am someone who works for a professional company, we treat our clients like they are the only client we have, I guess I am used to a way of working that involves superb time management, if we didn't operate that way, we would not secure the clients that we do, we pride ourselves on being shakers and doers, when customers want things, we move it for them, I'm not sure if that has ever got through to the Philippines ? my experience with the Philippines is that they are a "Manana" country.
"You want it when ?"
I only state it as I find it, even now we are still waiting for land titles and other documents, we keep asking every week where they are ? we are always told the same thing, they are being processed, or its in Manila ? or the attorney is away, or the attorney has not looked at it yet ? I am sorry to tell them, "If you trade like this in my country, you would loose all your clients, they will simply dump their attorney and go elswhere, time is money, and time waits for no man"
Now I know what youre thinking, I am not in my country, and you would be correct to say that, its the Philippines or as my good freind and member of the freindsofmindanaobob .com would say "WELCOME TO THE PHILIPPINES" you have just been tangoed by the Philippine factors.
The simple fact is..I am not in my country, things don't move fast, and everything happens in its own time, its what we have to live with whether we like it or not, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Rick, dont ask me to like it…but only to accept it.
Last time I checked the USA is becoming a "Manana" country too
Pete / Bob
You make some persuasive points and to be honest i can't argue with the points you have made and it certainly is radically different way of doing things…………… i just enjoy the differences and smile rather than being frustrated, because…..it makes it better for me and i find frustrated and even angry westerners in the Phils clash with the local way of doing things, i have seen some examples and the clash can be ugly
however, i do really get your general point and it is one of the reasons Phils will be a poor country for the foreseeable future, as visitors, lets enjoy it for what it is
and no i will not ask you to like it
very best regards
In the Philippines everything other than your peso moves on a slow pace. We would like them to be faster. But, there are a maze of red tape and desks that needs to navigated. Even by a lawyer. Speed is expensive(Bob knows what I mean) the cost depending on haw fast you want your documents back. I miss the laid back, Island lifestyle of the Philippines. Time is what we seem to lack here in the US.
Hi,
You should have kept the receipts for the improvements you made, then presented them to your landlord. If he refused to give you the money for the improvements then I'm sure you could have removed a lot of it.
This is a time when the classic 'place a smelly fish in a curtain pole' trick comes in handy!!
Phil
Hi Louis – Sounds like maybe you can get a deal on the place! Good luck.
Hi Pete – I am like you… a lot of the stuff, I don't like, but I just go along. What else can you do? One person can't change the system, and it isn't our country after all. Funny thing is, when you sit down and talk with Filipinos, they are aggravated at many of the same things that we are! Maybe the system is due for a change.
Hi Louis – Not sure how you could say that the US is becoming a manana country. For me, a manana country means a place where it is common to "just do it tomorrow" and such. In the USA, everything is very "hurry up and go" oriented. Maybe we have different concepts of what manana means.
Hi Rick – Yep… unfortunately, many of the reasons that make the Philippines a poor country are really ingrained in the culture. It will take generations for change to happen.
Hi Bobby – Yes, I do understand what you mean! Problem is – things move too fast in the USA, and too slow in the Philippines! Ha ha… as human beings we will never be satisfied!
Hi Phil – Yeah, that would have been a good way to go!
Let's face it folks, landlords are the same the world over and I don't think Bob's experience is unique to the Philippines.
As for delays….be thankful that you're dealing with a human being and not a voice recognition system.
Well, just remember that the things that make this country a frustrating place to do business and the same things that makes it an inexpensive place to live for expats. If things were efficient, services complete and so on, the place would be booming, rent would be high and prices higher.
Another solution to the problem of getting things notarized is to build a relationship of your own with a local lawyer. Then, when you need something done (such as Bob's rental contract) you can say that you will be the one to take it to your lawyer and get it
done. Or, go together to his lawyer. Then you know who the lawyer is, and where the office is so you can also follow up.
We have talked to our landlords and come to an agreement before moving in about improvements. Landlords often expect to fix things and make improvements before people move in, so this is the best time for bargaining. You can ask them to do certain things (like plumbing repairs, leaking roof, and sometimes painting) before you move in. You can also make some sort of agreement about repairs you make being taken from the rent by submitting receipts. Usually these improvements need to be agreed upon in advance. There have been improvements we have made from our own pocket as well, for the sake of our quality of life. Labor is cheap, and we felt it was worth the expense to have things the way we like it.
Hi Laurence – Yep, I agree.
Hi AmericanLola – I agree with what you are saying about the notary/lawyer problem. Only hitch on this particular incident is that the owner of the house was in Manila, and the lawyer to be used was there.
Also, regarding the improvements, I just want to clarify. We made the improvements knowing that it was our expense. We didn't expect the landlord to do it. We had an agreement up front, and there was some consideration given by lowering the rent a bit, and we would do some improvements. My only problem was that I was hoping to hang around and enjoy the improvements that we had made, but instead was kind of pushed out of the house even before the contract expired.
always always always get a copy of any legal paper work before it leaves the room, with BOTH signatures on it even if it is not notorized. This is your reference point for the original, and counter claim to any 'doctored' documents. On long term leases owners are usually so esctatic that adding in a 3 or 5 yr. option at 5% ( or whatever % & term ) rent esculation clause for X amount of yrs. creates a future option for the leasee. Usually your first conversation with the leasor as you view a rental property is your BEST opportunity to 'fish around' for thier rental perimeters for future negotiation. I make it a habit when dealing with managers that I WILL NOT look at the property without the owner present. You want to get answers before they have time to think about them, write em down and re-iterate the high points so you know they've heard them from you ( ….lol sorry Bob..I get carried away on anything related to property investing or management…
interesting Bob, my wife and I own a lot on Samul..its a few kilometeres from Paradise Beach.
Thanks for your tips, Brian! I appreciate it.
Where is your lot at on Samal? Earlier this year we purchased 7 lots in Barangay Limao, which is a few kilometers south of Paradise Island. Maybe we are neighbors.
Hi Bob,
Have you any advice regarding paying deposits/rent in advance, I'm a bit concerned if I pay 2 months as a security deposit and 2 months up front that the landlord may be slow in repaying me at the end of the rental. Especially as I will be 7,000 miles away. I've read that they are not that fast in repaying your deposit etc.
Any suggestions ?
Gerry
With a digital camera, a copy of the document can be made. And now that cameras are starting to be Wi Fi, you can take a picture of the document, walk over to nearest Internet Cafe, and transmit it, print it, and be done. This link is the the Nikon Coolpix S6, which is an example of what I'm talking about.
Hi Kevin, the problem with that approach PhotoShop can then be used to make that agreement say anything one wants. Thanks to PhotoShop nothing is sacred anymore.
Like you, I am also in the position of (overseas) Philippine landlord and have been so for the last 20 years. I must say, that I never had any contract notarized. Just having 2 witnesses sign has always been enough.
Problems tend to arise when the tenant is leaving and asks if the last (2)months could be paid from the security deposit. When you are not there to check out the damages, don’t allow it! The security deposit disappears and you are left with the damages or with a huge power bill. The last tenant who did that to me was an American charity. Not very charitable of them.
A relatively new thing is this 5% withholding tax on the rent. Are all you tenants doing this and paying it to the IRS?
Bob, lot is also south of paradise several kiliometers, if u take road south (dirt rd.) where it hits an intersection that goes north ( i beleive ) its just past that split.
Hello Bob and Feyma
@ KEVIN –
As both a Philippine landlord and renter, I would say, "scan" a copy of the signed document, assuming the owner always sign first. Send the scanned copy (as a PDF file) and make sure the owner gets a copy via notification (use email notification button on software). I am sorry that this incident had to happen to you and your family, and wish it does not happen to anyone else.
@ GERRY – make sure the contract states terms of payment and specifications on returning deposit. That way, owner is bound by law.
I hope this does not spoil your life in the islands. Davao is beautiful and a great place to live. It sure is a lot more secure than Manila.
Mabuhay !!
Nestor
Chicago, IL
Hi Gerry – I'll give you a tip that has always worked for me. If you have placed 2 months deposit, or whatever, when you are getting ready to move, let the landlord know two months or more in advance of your move. At that time, ask him how he wants to handle the deposit. In every case that I've experienced so far, they will just let you stay for the additional two months without paying rent, to sort of "eat up" your deposit. Try it – it works!
Hi Kevin – Good idea about taking a hi res digital shot of the contract.
Hi Brian – It sounds like we must be close to each other in our Samal lots!
Hi Nestor – Thanks for your participation! You have some good thoughts to share there. Don't worry, these are just minor headaches, and have certainly not ruined my wonderful life here in the Philippines!
Hi Bob – Pete's posts bring back many memories, and reveal possible future issues for me. Adjustment is certainly the name of the game. Finding that vendor who sells the proper "Made in the Philippines rose-colored glasses" can take years.
Practicing adjustment prior to moving could help. On weekends that aren't devoured by work, I try to live island style–never schedule more than one task to do, if any; don't wear a wristwatch and avoid looking at clocks or trying to find out "What time is it?"; visit Filipino markets, shops and restaurants; visit relatives; and the like. Only items I haven't been able to simulate are the noises that are commonplace in the Phils!
Could not agree more with your advice, Bob. I recently commented here and wrote elsewhere about what seems to be one of the number-one 'sticking points" for a lot of people thinking about moving here. They want to buy a house and pin themselves down before they even experience the Philippines .. and they get all "wrapped around the axle" about the Philippines' strange property ownership laws. Maybe those laws have an unintended benefit … they keep a lot of foreigners from making bad investments.
This is _not_ California or south Florida or any other place that most Americans know the real estate market. In most parts of the US … or England or Australia, et al, buying and selling houses is a big industry. Real estate is a commodity, you buy a houser almost as easily as you buy a car. It don't work that way here.
As with you and Feyma, Mita and I will have our own home in the future. We already own land on which we may build. Or we may buy one of any number of homes in a nearby city built by another expat and abandoned. A 10 million peso home, as per your example, is $218,000USd at today's rate. 108,000 GBP, or 160,00 Euros. You can build a pretty nice home for 10 million pesos, but don't kid yourself, it will not be Bill Gate's mansion. And it will be virtually unsaleable. You can make it a nice enough place to suit yourself … but it's nothing like the idea of buying or building a $200,000 house in the US and then selling it a few years down the road to move and/or "trade up" to a bigger house. No matter how smart you thgink (or can prove) you are in your home country, you (and this specifically means me too, Im paying for my education here as we speak) don't know nuttin' here. Caveat emptor.
Hi Bob:
As I have said before. Very prudent advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bravo!!!
Another thing I have noticed is that over here the cost of building a house is going up while the cost of buying is going down. If you see a house you like for 6M pesos then maybe you want to wait a month. I have seen houses start out at 12M Pesos and get sold for 4M. The house I am buying is no McMansion but it is still 200SqM (2,100sqft). It would cost me abot 6M to build now but the purchase price is 3M. Just remember, the bigger the house you buy, the bigger the bills that come with it. The market is just that bad over here and your average Filipino just doesn't have that kind of money. So in the long run you're selling to other expats.
Hi Paul – Based on the things that Pete has been writing, I think that his eyes started to open up a bit in the three weeks he was here! Ha ha…. He will get adjusted when he lives here, this kind of eye opening process happens to all of us, I'd say!
Hi Dave Starr – Yes indeed, we all start out from a knowledge base of "zero" here, don't we? I have been here over 7 years, and I consider myself just at the "elementary school" level when it comes to things like real estate here. It is a big learning process, and I am not sure we can ever fully grasp it.
Hi Wayne – Thanks for the vote of confidence!
He Louis – I have noticed the same – houses that are pre-built can often be purchased for less than building – much less. The other thing to keep an eye out for is ex-pats who are bailing out on the place, can't sell the house, and are pretty much willing to take what they can get just to go home. Now, there you can find some real bargains!
Excellent advise, Bob! As missionaries, we had our adjustment period for sure. In our case, we had to realize and affirm that we did not come here because we like the weather, the food or the culture. We didn't come because life is convenient or even because we enjoy the company of the people here (at that point). In fact, the language was hard to learn, the weather exhausting, the culture a mystery, life inconvenient and there were coups and diseases, to name a few. Things are better now for the foreinger, way better. But if your reasons for coming are mostly for your own pleasure, and you tend to be a fairly inflexible or an impatient person, you will become either bitter or better. The Philippines will not change for us, we have to change for the Philippines.
Hi biz doc – Glad you found the old article and gave it a read. I agree with most of what you say.
Hi AmericanLola – I like that quote "we will either become bitter or better." If you don't mind, I am going to steal it and use it from time to time. The fact is, I believe that we all go through the process and we all become bitter. After that we either become better, or we leave. Thankfully for me, after become bitter, I overcame it and became better. Being better is healthier for me, it makes me feel better, and it makes people like me more. When you are bitter you will find that you have few (if any) friends, which makes matters even worse.
Hi Bob,
Given that expats do leave on a regular basis, have you ever thought about or do you see others buying up that real estate cheap? Or is it still a matter of what do you do with it once you have bought it?
Hi Tom – To date I have not done this, but I do feel that it is a nice strategy to follow. I did once rent a house from a British guy who went home. He desperately needed somebody to buy it or rent it from him, and I lived there for 2 years for about 1/3 of what the place should have rented for.
Another little idiosyncrasies you are liable to run into here in the Philippines: there are houses for sale for years … I mean 5 and 6 years or more … that have not sold and the owner will not deal on. In my experience, you'll seldom see this in the US. And 'bank owned" repossessed houses in the US are often a "steal" if a buyer can make a quick offer. But in the Philippines, while "bank owned" properties are plentiful, the dealing environment is completely different.
There's a home a hundred meters or so from me … it's a nice-sized two story dwelling on an unusually-oversize lot. The homes around it are all in the 1.5 to 2 million range (based on actual sales within the past year or two). This hoiuse is listed at 3 million and certainly worth it, based on comparable size, construction, location, etc.
It has been on the market for 6 full years. The owner (a Filipino businessman in Manila) reportedly turned down a 2.5 million cash offer where the prospective buyer actually brought the 2.5 mill to a meeting is cash in a briefcase. Pretty obvious that the owner is not anxious to sell.
Many people in the US have biougt at sold more than one house in that amount of time … and to have your house up for sale for 6 plus years?
There's a lot to learn.
just found this “old” article but i figured this needed clarification.
most owners’ refusal to part with less– despite having a property on the block for a number of years– is due to the fact that local zonal & appraisal values on the lot will still increase even if the structure standing on it depreciates both in value and in actual physical condition.
so in terms of taxes, it doesn’t help to cut a deal if they’re not under any pressure to sell, that’s why most open-ended sellers won’t be bothered to negotiate because they have nothing extra to gain by selling low on a property that’s sure to increase in value.
in the case of properties repossessed by banks, credit-management bank honchos tend to “list” properties for sale/auction that have little comparable appeal vs. similar properties within the same locale. that’s why it’s a rarity to find good deals from bank listings.
on the other hand, quality listings of repossessed properties end up being sold internally– to their own officers, usually VP level & up. a seniority perk, in a way, given the hierarchical corporate culture of local banks.
sometimes it’s not even internal policy that drives this practice, but an “incidental” benefit if the SVP heading Loans happens to be an old-timer with a lot of internal influence, leveraging quality property finds into relationship-building tools with other bank officers he’d like to align with. knowing one is the only way any outsider can get access to such valuable finds.
what surprises many is that there are also properties that should be repossessed and in the market again, except for the fact that the owners may be long-standing bank clients with huge local-branch deposits.
in which case, regional/provincial branch managers tend to send FYI notes to their Credit counterparts in Head Office telling them to go easy on said foreclosure-able properties, rather than risk losing major depositors at the provincial branch level to competing banks, whose deposits may be 50-80% of their branch deposit base.
losing such clients could mean a major drop in branch income, if not outright closure if expenses remain higher than income for very long periods.
btw, provincial branch banking in PH is not for the faint-hearted ” )
Hello Bob, Louis and all, Back in there lots or houses for sale are price higher since it's expected that the buyer will negotiate with the price. thats is why it will go down. If your a good negotiator then the luck is on your side 😉
Hi Dave Starr – Yes, the issue that you bring up about people not being willing to negotiate is very true! I have found this to be particularly true in commercial space. I have found places like office buildings that sat vacant for 5 or even 10 years and the owner would not budge on the price. Very different than back in the States!
Hi Mahdy – While it seems the inverse of what Dave says, your statement is also true! People jack up the price to give themselves room to bargain.
Hi Bob, and everyone else, its good to hear I am the center of your observations, actually I am not offended by anyones comments, the more the merrier, in fact the reason I wrote my posts was to simply point out much of what Bob is saying, the difference with my posts if you examine them is that they dont just give vague insights, they come with examples, the problem with examples or incidents is that it kind of personalizes the issues.
Because it personalizes them, emotions run high, the object of my posts has to be Filipinos, and in some respects, and naturally one becomes defensive, my intention has never been to slight any paticular group of people, if Bob is correct in his assertions, then it seems that renting a house before committing to building a house is the best way forward for those who seek to make a life in the Phiilippines, its very good advice Bob.
I chose not to do that, for my own personal reasons, for one thing, I have studied carefully over the last 2 years, the rising cost of land, I have been in touch with other couples, and noted what a square metre of land cost 2 years ago to what it costs now, did you know price hikes as much as 30 per cent or more have taken place over the last 2 years, and please please please, dont tell me its not true, I have witnesses it for myself.
Many factors are coming into the realms of real estate buying, for example, Negros Occidental is now awaiting the opening of the new Negros International airport, land prices are going up very quickly, as we are only 15 minutes from the new airport, everytime I have looked into buying a lot, the price per square metre has changed, it may only be a few thousand here and there, my advice to anyone is simply this, if you are considering building a house in the future, try and secure your lot as soon as possible, as Louis says in his post, the cost of building materials is going up.
And there is no point in saying they will stay stable in the future, because Bob has already said himself in a previous post, the buying power of the U.S. Dollar has deflated by 20 per cent, (do you remember that Bob) the buying power of the Euro and the Sterling is slightly down on the last 3 years, but not much to make a major difference.
I have recently spent a subsancial amount of my money on building materials, trust me when I tell you, the prices of building materials are going up, inflation is running fairly high at present in the Philippines, the only difference between the Phiippine real estate market and our own back in UK, is that Philippine houses and if you seperate these from the land they sit on, are not appreciating assets, in other words, as Lous and others have said, building the 15 million mansion will not get you a 15 million or more return if you decide to sell it, thats why I was mindful about building a mansion and anyway I couldnt afford to do so.
When I consulted a well known Filipino trusted accountant in Bacolod City, he advised me that land on its own, i.e. Lots were a good investment, since the price was appreciating, he also advised me that there was little or no maintenance on a lot, and if you had no intention of building on it, it was an excellent investment, just look around many of the sub divisions in the Philippines, many of them have lots of open area's vacant spaces, where someone has bought the land but has no intention of living on it, or in fact building a house, they have been bought for investment purposes.
Back to Bob's point, if you are planning to live permanently, the try before you buy option is a great way to find out if you are suited to the Philippines, I am also mindful that the reason you would want to try before you buy is because you are married to a FIlipino citizen who has hopes of returning home to live one day, I'm not sure how she would feel if you said " I will give it a whirl to see how I feel" what happens if you don't like it ? as so many do not ? as Bob says, they end up leaving and going back to foreigner land.
Even the best laid plans don't always work ! I might take some stick here at this blog for going ahead full steam, buying my plots of land, building my house, ok so I went full commitment, in 5 years time I hope to make my life in the Philippines a semi permanent arrangement, the only difference is, I made the decision not to go in 5 years time and start looking to build my home, in 5 years time, the prices will have risen by at least 40 per cent or more, as I have no intention of ever selling my home, the re-sell issue just never came up, with all the money we have spent on our home, and if you see it, you will think its beautiful, I am very proud of our achievements.
It easy to sit on the fence and look over, taking a plunge of course is an entirely different proposal, and of course having the money to complete the task is also a major consideration, its well known that people who caution others about entering into a paticular venture, either 1. dont have the money to do it, are envious because they themselves would want to do it, but financial constraints dont allow them to.
Everyones personal circumstances are different, timing is something for each individual to decide if its right for them, in my case, I made a business decision that it was right to do so at that time, whether it be wrong or right, the decision has been made, the money has been spent, the secret of course is as Bob says, not to try and build houses that you would expect to have in the West, P10 Million to P15 Million will simply not sell for years if at all, Filipinos do not have that kind of money, I am happy with my investment and my home – and after all thats whats important right !
Hi Pete – Don't take anything I have written wrong. I am not anti-Pete, believe me. I am just kind of reiterating what I have said before, and using the things that you wrote publicly as an example for others to look at. I believe that you can make it here, but it will take adjustment on your part. When Feyma has read the things that you've said here, she has turned to me and said "Pete is just like you were when we came here." I see you as a mirror of myself, albeit 7 years ago. It takes time to adjust, and if you are willing to give yourself that time, you will make it here! 😀
Exactly Bob! That's what I'm doing with the place I'm buying now. It's in one of the better subdivs here in Davao and the guy that owns it now was desperate to sell because he wants out. They wanted 6M for the place and I just said "Look, I'll give you 3M for it final offer." and they took it. They wanted to sell it with the furniture, car, plants… everything. I'll take the plants but the furniture is from Boulevard and I have my own anyway. As for land I have heard that Samal land is a good investment right now as it just keeps going up however any kind of beachfront property carries extra paperwork so consult with a good realtor before buying. I think part of the reason that houses depreciate here is because of the wear and tear that the weather does on a house. Plus termites are always a threat. I know when Lea calculated the value of the house I am buying the land was worth more than the house… that's certainly a change from the US. I know I have many things I need to adjust to, and I certainly sympathize with Pete, because I also see myself in what he is having problems with. I also know for me there is no going back to the US. I am married now and committed to my wife which means come hell of high water I am here for good.
Good Day All:
The more that I read the more I realize how good my wife and I have it here and that the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. That is one of the good things by observing and learning before acting. Over the past several months it has become obvious that are frustrations and yes some bigotry by both cultures toward the other.
Last night I had a conversation with a gentleman who is presently in the states who had moved his family to the RP. They are there and he is now back here trying to make a living to support them. His original idea of a business there has not taken off the way that he wanted. When returning here he is finding that he no longer has a career and has been looking to find jobs to make money to send back. He is now working two jobs and it exhausted and still does not seem to make enough to get back there for any length of time. He has many ideas about he can do to earn money part of the year and send it back and then spend part of the year in the RP.From where I stand he miscalculated and it going through exactly what I would not want to happen.
I listen to the descriptions of, oppressive heat, the need for air conditioning, (which I hate), constant biting insects, surrounded by abject poverty, cultural frustrations, demanding friends and relatives, and it really makes me wounder why I would want to relocate there. Here we own our house, our vehicles, all aspects of my business. We own nothing to the bank and by noting on time payments. My wife has a steady job with benefits and reasonable pay. I work at what I like, when I want, with who I want and how I want. The fall is fast approaching which is my favorite time of the year. The vibrant colors, the cool crisp mountain air, the walk in the woods with my bow. Being one with nature. Why would I want to relocate I find myself asking? My answer is becoming I am not so sure that I do. Life is pretty dam good right here and my wife has no strong desire to return to the RP long term. She kind of likes being here. The schools in this rural area are well disciplined and have excellent quality of education. Why would I consider leaving. Well there is one thing. The winters are getting longer and colder as I grow older. Maybe I just need to throw more wood in the stove and stay worm with my wife on those cold winter nights.
So why would I want to leave, and relocate to the RP? I'm not so sure I want to anymore after reading all of these posts and talking to some of the people who have moved.
Oh and these stories of cultural frustrations are a real eye opener, and are growing very old and tiresome.
The very interesting things about this blog are the downside as well as the positives that are aparent to all of us with some experience of life in Mindanao.
I think these things are well balanced in this blog in that positives are stressed but negatives are discussed. I think Pete got overly stressed about some small cultural invonveniences and will deal with them more easilly as Bob does now he has aclimatised and as per advice to Pete above
The real estate issue is interesting (i myself have purchased and hope i haven't made a mistake….)…i have enjoyed reading all advice given here both from ex-pats and also from commenting people
Americanlola always comes out with some balanced and astute comments which i do appreciate. There are winners and loosers in the real estate business (Louis could have in theory paid 6m but paid 3) timing and luck are involved as well as knowledge of local conditions but i do appreciate the discussion of topics here and i think most comments are relevant
Like Pete says, its up to everybodies individual decision and i think if things like ac, insects and humidity worry Wayne, then his decision may be made for him, i do not find the discussions of cultural issues tiresome at all i find them a catalyst for discussion
rambling on here, good luck to all
Hi all,
Louis did pretty well in that deal of your property (in my perspective, since half the price you can't beat that). It is really a matter of bargaining ability. Thumbs up on that! I think that is one good quality of a good businessman.
Wayne, your friends’ situation is sad. He hasn’t foreseen everything. That is why everyone here gives an advice that one should rent first to get the jig, one should be careful or one should have a saving/investment/pension/etc. to dip in times of the situation you just mention above. One should be careful with managing their money even if it looks like everything is cheap back there in Pinas. If not manage well, money will run off in a blink of an eyes.
Hi Louis – The property deal sounds like a good one for you! Good luck with that.
Hi Wayne – What this blog is about is telling people what it is really like to live here. There is good, and there is bad. This blog aims to educate people before they come, and let them make an informed decision on what they do. Some will be drawn here and will move, others will decide to stay home. Neither of those groups are wrong, they just have different needs and desires. For me, after making the adjustment, I have no desire to go back. Others can't make the adjustment (or don't want to), that's OK too. If you decide that you are already where you want to be, no harm in that. If that is what is best for you, I wish you well, and just hope that we have a chance to meet when you visit here. We all have a journey, and each of those journeys can lead us in different directions.
Hi rick – Thanks for sharing your "rambling" (as you call it). I enjoyed hearing your thoughts.
Interesting info on realestate. Actually, it made me feel better about something I've been considering — buying an attractive plot of land and sitting on it until early retirement and even then I'll rent first to be sure I want to spend the money on a house that I won't be able to sell (even if it's modest by American standards). At least the land seems to be a safe investment and even if I decided to sell it I wouldn't care too much about making money, just not losing money. Land also doesn't require maintenance so it's easier to sit on for years without much attention besides keeping squatters at bay.
Practicing the lifestyle before moving there? Interesting idea. In fact, I just realized I already do it!! For example I had plans to get up at 7 am and start washing our driveway and then sealing it. It's a huge driveway parking area with two islands in it and enough space to park at least 20 cars (the previous owner must have loved asphalt). It's been on my "to do" list all summer. But here I am at 11 am reading the blog and checking email. No worries…I'm a teacher and it's summer (but it will be over soon). Well, it will be lunch time soon so no point starting now, right? It can wait… I'll just change the list title from "Tuesday" to "Wednesday"… 😆 Mady and I are often late to family gatherings or dates with friends. I just blame it on "filipino time" even though I'm the one who almost always makes us late! I should fit right in….no one will ever expect me to be on time! I love it!!!
I'm just trying to second Bob's comment to Wayne re: this blog. Bob said "What this blog is about is telling people what it is really like to live here." I believe the blog's target readers are people who wanted to move, or retire, or even just thinking of moving or retiring in RP. However, I do believe, Bob and other authors welcome others who just wants to take a peek of what it's like living in RP.
Let's just respect expats who are living there, the ones who will be moving there, and the ones thinking of moving there. It's just like saying to the group of medical interns that "Oh! I'm glad I didn't study medicine, life of interns are hell." For me this attitude is not helpful. These people need a sound analysis for the decision they made, and lots of encouragement for the newbies, like Pete. 🙂
Wayne, I know you don't have a bad intent of your comment but the tone just seems different. 🙂 I think you and your wife have a good life, financially speaking, wherever you are. Good for you. But as you can see, like in Bob's case, his move to Davao was the best decision he made. Speaking as a US citizen and a resident, we will be financially alright here (or I hope). However, thinking of retirement age, I think I will enjoy it more spending in RP (or maybe not). But again, this is a couple's decision, it can't be one-sided. Though, I still have at least 30 yrs. to retire, I'm reading this blog to gain insights. My hubby doesn't want to retire there, but hey! he may changed his mind too. Worst case will be, we'll end up retiring here, but go to RP every year!
And just back to the topic of real estate, it used to be location, location, location. However, NPR mentioned it last week- timing, timing, timing. 🙂
Good Afternoon Everyone:
Hi Bob:
Your site is doing exactly what you intend it to do. The information that I have gained here from you and others is absolutely invaluable. That fact can never be stated strong enough from my point of view. No matter which way we go it will be a better informed decision because of you , this site and the people that post here. Even when I'm grumpy and do not agree with someone I am still learning things.:wink:
Before finding your site and from the other material I had studied, I had strong positive feelings about relocating there, and all the way up until I found out what kind of pressure Jo would be under if we moved back to her village. That really made me sit up and look again. Since then there have been a number of small things that have really made me reexamine this subject. Only because of the objectivity that you have here would I be able to give a more informed look at all the different aspects of relocating. I have gone from most likely to,,,too, I am not sure and have decided that it must take more time to figure it out. My biggest concern is what I mentioned about that gentleman who is back here in the US. We both know him and I am genuinely concerned for him.. What he is going through is exactly what I do not want to happen to us. So I am being cautious. Thanks again to you and all of the objective posters here for your insites. They allow for an informed and knowledgeable decision rather than just a dream. This is not something to be taken lightly. I/We have to decide what is best for Jo & I, and I in no way want to make her unhappy by forcing something half thought out on her.
Hi Mahdy:
Yes I really feel for the guy. I wish there is away I could help but I know that there is not. He does not seem detoured though, and has several ideas of things he could do to make his dream come true. He is a smart and industrious person and has succeeded before from what I can tell. I think he will again. Thanks for you concern.
Hi Rick:
You may not know that I am a guide. I spend huge amounts of time outdoors often in remote areas of the north east. Biting insects are a way of life here and one of the reasons I like to have clients along is that the bugs prefer their delicate skin to my old shoe leather tough skin. So they are not worrisome. What is as far as the RP goes it the fact of diseases such as Dengay Fever & Malaria. Friends of my wife who live in some of the different provinces that we might settle in have warned us about both long before I ever read anything by Bob about it.
As far as the heat, it seems to bother my wife more that it does me. In fact temperature extremes tend to bother her more. That is one of the reasons she is not crazy about going back there. Once again those are things to take into account before making informed decisions. So no decision is clear as you seem to indicate. In fact it is very far from it.
The topics of cultural differences is not getting so old. What is, is what appears to be the complaining about it. That is getting old. Given some of those posts were most likely not written with that intent, but sometimes that is the way they come off. I for one like to know and study different cultural behaviors. I just believe that when in Rome do as the Romans do, and do not "bitch" about it. I do not think it is right to live or visit some place and find fault with how things are done there. Our way is no better than theirs and theirs no better than out. Just different, and that is the way I feel it should be viewed and discussed in an objective manner. Not from one of emotion. That is all I meant.
You are correct American Lola is a woman that seems to have one of the most even keeled outlooks of any person I have ever encountered in any way shape or form. She will never know just how much respect that she has gained from me because of her demeanor and thoughtfulness. She is someone that when it comes to objective knowledge of the RP that I look up to.
Hi Lea:
No there was no negative intent in my previous writing. It was just musing in the written word about the fact that because Bob's blog is so broad that in the long term you can gain enough information that you can see almost all sides. Which for me makes me want to stop and think and study.
Yes we are fairly financially secure here in NH and one of my questions is would we be that secure there. I'm not sure and Jo does not think so. In any event a move like this takes a lot of studying, planning and the ability to adapt at the drop of a hat.
Best to you all.:smile:
Ηι Βοβ which things they is these that give permision this persons which them do not only interest the Philippines other to make criticism and to fly poison as soon as they find occasion .This conversation if like the Blog as him they do not also read as not they write I remained the Blog yours me it saved from a lot of situations and I make new drawings for the Philippines.
Regards
Hi Bob-I don't think anyone who comes to stay in the Philippines and builds a house does so in order to make a profit on the eventual sale of the house, or do they?
Well I first owned the land for over 20 years before deciding to build on it. you could say I considered my options very well. Five Presidents later we built our house to our design at our cost and nowhere near the 10 million I might add but comfortable for two and the odd weary traveller now and then. I had no illusions that we would eventually sell for a handsome profit if we decided to pack in and come back to the UK. Instead when we built it I thought our kids would eventually have a house if they ever wished to visit their relatives or at some stage knock the house down and just retain the lot for whatever the future may hold for them.We just want to enjoy our house whilst we have our health and we don't care what happens after that as you cannot take it with you when you go.
Hi Jon – Unless you pay the "Kano price" for real estate, you should be able to flip it and at least get your money back later on. This does not seem too risky to me. By the way, Jon, sounds like you are putting in lots of practice on Filipino time!
Hi Lea – Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Hi Wayne – I'm glad that the blog has provoked thought for you to make the decision that is right for your family.
Hi Zois – Thanks for your thoughts!
Hi Jim – You are right, I don't think most ex-pats come here looking to make a profit on any house that they build. Just being able to get out what you paid into it can be difficult, though, especially for those who build an expensive place!
Hi Bob,
Those prices in your article are they based on monthly or weekly rental costs?
Hi Richard – Those figures are for monthly rental costs.
Bob,
What are you using as a basis for desirable and undesirable features for a foreigner?
Hi Bruce – Not a nipa hut comes to mind! 😆 The ability to put in an aircon. Not made from native materials, like a shack made of coco lumber and such. Not a dirt floor. Toilet inside the house. Those are some thoughts off the top of my head.
Bob,
Ok, I was wondering since Elenas home was small but comfortable, and one bedroom, hers thank GOD, had a hole in the wall for an aircon. I would like a little larger rooms, more outside area for a decent garden.
But I know what you mean about the poorer homes.
I do think a house framed with lumber would be better suited than block because of the earthquakes
Thanks for the response.
Hi Bruce – Personally, I would not touch anything built with lumber. In only a short time the termites will eat it up, and you're in for major repairs. Speaking of Elena's house, that is the sort of place that is going for around P10k to P15k these days. Of course, I haven't seen the inside of her place, but I saw the exterior when we dropped you guys off after dinner one night. I would consider that to be a decent place for a foreigner.
good subject Bob, something very tangable to chew on…from a reader stand point who is planning on living there perhaps you could expand upon this subject in the near future. Such as giving size ( sq. mtrs) anemities, locale and such along with price on on several grades of housing in your area? I have found comparable of those advertised on the net v/s what I have personally seen in the Cebu area are significantly different. Apparently those on the net are asking a premium in hopes of getting foreigners.
😀 I think it would be fun to live in a grass hut with a beautifull phillipina woman and just relax and not worry about big rent….have a tv and a few other fun things and just enjoy life…
On the more serious side of things I do not think that 15,000php is that bad for a half way decent place to live…of course still being here in the states I am used to rent a lot higher than that and 15,000php or aroound $350.00 USA dollar will not get u much for a place to live..and for sure not get you a house in most places here in the states. So I quess it goes back to some of your other interesting things you have shared here before…a person needs to have a idea of what they can live on there with the income they have available.
I always enjoy reading the posts you make Bob and that your Wife makes also and some of the other people here also …very interesting and a good learning experience also…
Hi Brian – In general, it is a good idea to avoid the internet sites with real estate for sale or rent. Prices are generally inflated a lot, just as you say – they are hoping to catch a foreigner who doesn't know the real value. That being said, there are a few sites that are pretty good, though, although I would not choose to personally endorse them publicly here.
Hl Bob In June when we met up. I spent a lot of time looking at houses to buy and to rent . botth with my filipina wife and she went on her own without the kano. this way she gets the filopio price. Conclusion for my family . if you move todavao rent donot buy notuntillyou are atleast a bit more strretwise. lots of housesup for sale owned by kanos and they can not sell.rent if you want something reasonabe in adecent area then you need to budget 25000 amonth minimum.
Hi Bob. was wondering if you might like to take a stab in another article at covering building costs there in Davao. Here in Dumaguete we have a builder that will give you a turn key house with pretty good quality fixtures ie: tiolets, showers, sinks, kitchen cabinets, floors, lights, doors, windows, concrete roofs, solid earthqauke proof foundation, german plumbing piping, grounded and quality electrical wiring ,quality block and poured cement, rebar, everything a westerner would appreciate,etc…. for about 20,000sqm at the high end of his picing. all you need to supply are appliances. I would think Davao should be cheaper as it is a bigger place with more sources. Dum is actually high priced as a result of the influx of foreigners willing to pay. I have a proeprty on Samal I want to build next year. I understand you have prop there as well so if mine works out you will have a good ref point.The more detail you can provide the better if you are so inclined with an article of that nature. thanks
HI Bob I feel honored that you would call me a friend. Elvie and I had a good time with you yesterday and we realy apreciate you going out of your way to show us around a bit.
That house that was 14k realy looked nice from the front and might even have a bit of a yard, if we don't find something better in the next week or so we may just have a look at it. I realy liked the area it was in too. Being a bit of a penny pincher I would like to find something cheaper if we can though. For me its a matter of spending all now or saveing for the future. Anyway after I get aclimated to the Philippines and hopefully learn a bit of the language we might just move out to a smaller town to save money. Just not sure if it would be a good idea to dive in head first without looking 😉
Bob, Marlou's old house rented for 12,000 unfurnished or 15,000 furnished. Its one of two (upper and lower). I have heard that its available or coming available again. The land lady is wonderful. The address is 14 Jade. If your friend is still looking I would recommend stopping by to take a look. In response to your comment about cost via a web site you are so correct. I originally found the house Marlou lived in via a web site and the asking price was 18,000 unfurnished. Marlou went to see it, started talking with the owner and she rented it for as I stated 12,000. At the time brand new-3 bdrm, 2 bath, gated little compound-very nice. Ron
Just like to add my pennies worth re the websites that are advertising rent and sales of property there in Davao. They are very inflated prices, but i guess if some foreigners are going for them then more fool them. It certainly pays to shop around and take your time and of course let your wife/gf be the 1st contact with the owner for the best price.
One website is also actually charging the rentee a months rent for finding the said property. i have never heard before that the rentee has to pay its usually the owner who pays the agent the fee for finding someone to rent the property. I guess its "Only in the Philippines"
I'm wonder if the credit crunch and the US going into recession and house prices tumbling if that will have an effect on the Philippines housing market? And/or have an effect on OFWs sending less money home? and hense effect the peso?
Graham….
Bob,
Living in Florida, I know about termite problems in building but there are ways to avoid it. Masonry is fine to prevent termites, but the walls crack with earthquakes and plumbing, in a cracked walls can crack too.
Most termites are subterranean and will die if they are in sunlight. They tunnel through the soil to enter the structure. If you build the slab higher than the level of soil, or come up a few courses of masonry block and then build with lumber, you solve the problem.
I have some design ideas for security bars for windows that can be popped out or opened in case of a fire so inhabitants can escape. Seeing the welded bars over windows I could just imagine how many deaths have occurred that could have been prevented there.
I found a place that was 4 br, really nice lookin on the pictures and best of all P7,000/month. The day I was supposed to look at it though it was rented privately bythe landlord, *%@(%! This is the 3rd time something like this has happened to me since I moved here. Oh well back to the search. Cebu has some bargains also. My friend rents a 2 br townhome for P8,000 month and not far from him a relatively new 3br townhome is advertised at P10,000/month. However I could never live in Cebu, too crowded. The biggest problem I have right now is that alot of the places I find come with the description "In a guarded and gated community" umm no. 7 months in a guarded and gated community has proven to me that I absolutely hate it. I want the vendors, I want the sari-sari's I want the easy transportation.
Hi Frank – Oh yes, I remember your house hunting adventures! Ha ha… Well, I feel you are right in your prices and everything.
Hi Corey – I would probably avoid making a post about building costs, because I am not experienced on that. I have never built anything here, and I feel that such an article by me would be inaccurate. After we get started in building our house in Samal, I will do that, though.
Hi John H. – Of course, I would call you a friend! Feyma and I enjoyed getting together with you guys, and we hope that you have good luck in finding the right place to rent! Hope to see you soon!
Hi Ron – We did drive past there the other day, but didn't see any "For Rent" signs! I guess that they didn't get around to putting one up yet, or the house is not quite on the market yet. I was encouraging John to try to rent here in Marfori, though, because I really love this neighborhood. Thanks for the tip!
Hi Graham – Thanks for backing me up on the websites issue! Regarding the problems in the US housing market, I don't think it will have a huge effect here. It seems that OFW money is rushing into the country and pushing the value of the Peso so far up! I expect that to continue.
Hi Bruce – Good luck on the termites! So far, I have never seen anybody who could stop them. Even using treated lumber does nothing to stop the termites here. If you could come up with a solution for that, you could probably earn a living here! Seriously.
Hi Louis – We lived in a gated community for a year (Woodridge). Like you, we decided we didn't care for the lifestyle.
Hi Bob, ive been reading your blogs for sometime now. I got an email from a local website here in davao regarding houses for rent and i received one today. Your friend might be interested to see it. Below are the details:
located at 190-B Hyacinth St. Alpha Homes, Matina Davao city.rent is 9000pesos
3 flrs. Two BDrm
2 CR.
with Garage.
Contact number po.
09177024671 – maricel
09163016953 – naz
Hi Alyn – Thanks for passing that along! I am sure my friend will see it and check into it.
Hi Bob,
We had two houses around 5,000 to 7,000 last week. But it got taken after a few days. Right now, the cheapest we have in the website is Php12,320.00 . It's a 2 bedroom, 1 CR apartment. Unfurnished and not so big. If someone wants a two-storey house with at least 3 bedrooms and 2 toilet/bathrooms, please expect to pay Php15,000.00 or more. These are located in nice neighborhoods as well. Meaning, no shanties in the vicinity. In gated subdivisions, the prices are sky high!
I was told several times that our prices are so expensive. I'm sorry about that but there's nothing I can do. These are owner's prices (not ours) and it's the going rate in Davao, nowadays. Unless you want to live in a low cost housing unit, which if lucky we can get P3,500.00 per month rent. I try so hard to look for cheap houses so I can also serve my other clients but it's very difficult to find one. Once I do, we also have a waiting list. Hence, most of the time it does not reach our website anymore.
RE: website that charges fee: please never pay them. It's unethical for a License Broker to ask payments from the client. We are being paid by the owners of the said houses. If a broker does that to you, please report her/him to the Department of Trade and Industry. That's the government agency that takes care of unethical/illegal agents.
Hope this helps. Thank you and God bless.
Lea C. Walker
REB License No. XI-06-361 http://www.davaoproperties.com
Hi Lea – I was hoping that you would stop by and make a comment on this – thank you for doing so. I believe what you say pretty much confirms my feelings. Bargains do pop up, but in general, expect to pay P10 to 15k here in Davao for a monthly rental price. It wasn't many years ago when you could get a very nice place for that price, and places between P5k and P10k were common, but it seems that those days have already passed.
Thank you, Lea (and John) for helping people find affordable housing!
I wonder if there are apartments for sale outside Manila and Cebu. Next year I would be looking to buy a one or two bedroom appartment in Visayas or eastern Mindanao. Can a foreigner buy townhouse or only apartment? Can anybody help with some information?
I have to say I am dissapointed. John and Lea are the most ethical people I know and I consider them very near and dear friends. Someone on here and you know who you are went around their back and cut them out of the deal so to speak. Is this fair? Is this ethical? I really expected better out of this person, so sorry for me I was wrong.
Philip – A foreigner cannot own any property over here. You can rent, or if you are married to a Philippine citizen you can buy and make the property conjugal marital property.
Hi Philip – as a foreigner you can indeed own a condo. But foreigners can own only up to 40% of the condos in any certain unit.
Hi Louis – I don't know who you are talking about, but if you, John or Lea think that I cut them out of a deal it is not true. I have shown some people around to different places that I know of for rent, but never when the Walkers were involved that I am aware of. Why cut them out, after all, commissions come from the owner of the house anyway. Anyway, i doubt you are talking about me, because I've never done it, but just want to make that clear.
hi
Hi thomas, how are you? Is there something we can help you with?
wow bob i didnt think you would answer me now yes there is i have just sent you rather a long message on commets but it would be nice if we could communicate now
Hi thomas – I just left a reply on your other message (on the Mindanao Blog). Let's have coffee when you come to Davao!
Well if anyone is interested, my landlady has a 1br efficiency apartment open. P8,500/month. If you pay 1 year up front you get one month free rent. Pictures available upon request, just e-mail me @ brspiritus@(nospam)yahoo.com Remove the (nospam) obviously.
Bob – I know this column is about rental but am wondering how would you rate the architects and builders there. In your estimation, is the quality of the new housing getting better and perhaps more attuned to western hemispehe style that you as an American and Europeans may be more accustom to. Do you have any house builders and architect referral you can provide or anyone else for that matter that you have building confidence in. If for example you were going to start building you Samal house today who would you use. Anyway good news that Davao continues to set itself apart as a city of progress.
Bob,
I too have noticed the building boom. On Bacaca road near Diversion there are many new 3 story townhouses and more being built.
Also out near SM mall there is a building of 6 story Condos being built.
So I guess you are correct always feeling the Heart Beat of Davao.
Hi Louis – Thanks for the tip! I hope that your landlord finds a renter as soon as possible! Given the market in Davao, it should not be too much of a problem! 😀
Hi Bruce – Well, I would certainly not claim that I am "always correct" on anything, none of us can claim that with any degree of accuracy. I sure hope that I am right more times than I am wrong though! If you wanted to know if I am ever wrong, just ask Feyma! 😆 I'm pretty sure she would know! 😉
Yes, I have been keeping an eye on those condo units near SM. They seem quite expensive to me (almost P3m for a 60 sq. meter unit), so I am quite interested to see how they sell. I am not fully convinced that Davao is ready for something like that, although I think that it is possible.
Interesting report, Bob. Here in my little town, where as I have mentioned, there is certainly no shortage of single-home style rental properties (mostly all smaller and older) there are several new private enterprise new builds/rebuilds going on, just in the past few months. Most of these projects are not what the average foreigner is looking for, but increases in supply help the strength of the entire market, I think.
One factor I haven't seen much mention of that may help drive a construction increase is that there is both new home financing and rehabilitation loan financing much more readily available now. Banks are actively advertising long-term mortgages, 20 or even 25 year terms, somehting relatively unheard of just afew years ago.
any idea on how much and how many bedrooms those apartments rent for Bob?
Hi Dave Starr – Yes, I do see some banks starting to offer mortgages and such, but the interest rates are quite high compared to what you would get in the west. I feel that as things like home financing and such grow, it could help the Philippines reach a better economic status in the world, offering Filipinos a chance at home ownership and other economic benefit.
Hi Brian – I know some such apartments. One that I know of is a fairly nice 3 bedroom apartment with 2 1/2 bathrooms and rents for about P16,000 per month. Prices vary with things such as location, amenities and such, of course.
Hi Bob! Thanks for leaving a comment in my blog site. My friend living near SM Davao rents a 2-br house for P8,000. Apparently, rentals in Davao are almost the same as the rates in Metro Manila.
Have a nice day!
Hi luna miranda – Actually, these days, finding a place to rent for P8k is difficult in Davao. You can find something for 10k, but not easily. For most foreigners, they should budget P15k to find a decent place, in my estimate.
Nice website you have there! I'll visit again soon!
Hi Bob, Marlou's family (Estuarts/Marforis) just held a huge family reunion in Davao. From the pictures we received about 100+ plus families were represented. The majority of these families came from the U.S. and the majority of those from California. Many of them bought homes while on this reunion trip and some are financing or building apartments in Davao. I think you will see more of this over the next few years. The Filipino baby boomers are cashing in their 401s, selling their homes and returning to retire. I think its great since they will only improve the quality of life in Davao for everyone. Ron and Marlou
I notice to that they have started to build Condos in Davao I think its a very good move im just surprized that they have never done it before. I agree with Bob though they look a bit pricey and almost Manila prices. Shame that they have come in so high, i would of thought come in low and build the prices up. Samal would be nice to build Condos but really need the bridge to be built 1st, if ever! 🙁
talking about rentals
I hope to be back in Davao late February(this month) and looking for small appartment circa 10k to rent(1 yr) ive tried many of the websites but i think they over inflate the prices. Still looking if anyone knows anywhere will be much ablidged 🙂 [email protected] i think i be forced to rent aparatelle for a month 1st then look.
Hi Bob — i did some research on that new condo plans after reading about it here. The units seem pretty small, but for those who are used to small urban living, it seems intriguing. I've come to prefer condo living here but i know there will be huge differences (separate laundry rooms?). But it sure piqued my interest.
Here is a link to that Filinvest property: http://oneoasis.wordpress.com/2008/01/14/one-oasi…
Stumbled into this link as well while doing the research. It has the front facade layout and a mention of other Davao plans (like an Ayala mall — another mall? actually quite a scary thought in regards to added traffic). http://kymoie.multiply.com/journal/item/10/2008_w…
Many websites do overinflate their prices, I know of a couple western style apartments for rent on Lea's website, but those rent in the 12-13k/month range.
Hi Ron LaFleur – Sounds like a great reunion! I really believe you are correct that a lot of Filipinos are retiring, or at least dipping into their retirement funds in order to finance a return home and putting those dollars at work here. It's a good sign for the Philippines.
Hi Graham – I think it will be hard to find that place for P10k, but I hope you can!
Hi macky – Yeah, I have been aware of the Ayala development that is coming in Bajada. I'm pretty excited about it, because I like Ayala, generally better than SM. It will add something new to Davao, and hopefully won't bring too much more traffic to the area! 😆
Hi Louis – very true!
Condos in Samal?!? the current amount of development is already frightening. Water/Sewage/Electricity could become interesting in the chinese sense, within just a few years….
Hi Bob,
It is interesting to note that the apartments here aren't much more expensive than those in Davao. And that the BPOs and call centers have extended their reach outside of Metro Manila (like in Davao, Cebu, etc.) This makes the south even more inviting! Let's just hope the building of infrastructure does not compromise the preservation of nature.
Thanks for sharing! Cheers!
Hi Alan Mark – I just got home from a journey to Samal. There is indeed a lot of development going on there, but there is plenty of room for it too. Feyma and I were talking while we were there that it seemed to be in line to be the next Boracay. That has good sides and bad sides.
Hi Migs – If you don't mind my asking, when you say "here" where are you talking about? In other words… where are you based? Based on the things you mentioned, I suspect that you are in Manila, but am not certain.
Oh, sorry about that, Bob. Yes, I am in Manila, the city I schizophrenically love.
Hi Migs – Thanks for filling me in. You love the place? Well, somebody has to I guess! 😉 Just kidding… Manila is just too big and too busy for my taste, I just hope that Davao doesn't end up there too!
Vicki,
I am an Architectural Project Manager from the States living in Davao. If you ever want a house designed in American Functionality, Filipno or any combination I would glad to help you design it. I could also look for a builder to work with to get it built for you. Just email me through my sites
I wrote somehting abouit this recently on on eof myown sites, but got no comments … I thought I'd toss it out to this group, especially becuase Bob has several real estate professionals who read/contribute regularly:
When we say 'condo' everyone thinks of a (typically) small apartment in a high rise building.
But condominium is also a legal form of property ownership where a corporation owns the physical assets and sells the rights of use to the 'owners'. That's what you get when you 'buy a condo' in a high risse … the rights of use only, the condominium corporation owns everything except the air and the door key.
I'm wondering why, staying strictly within the Philippine legal systems .. 60% Philippine ownership, etc., a corporation couldn't buy a plot of land, build single family homes on it and sell individual units as condominium units, exactly as if they were apartment-style units in a single building,
Certainly seems to me as if it could be done legally … I'm wondering if this has already been tried or if I am missing something here?
Hi Dave Starr – Interesting observation! It is something that I had never thought about, and I don't know the answer. I believe that this could be an excellent business opportunity for one of the big development companies.
Hi Bob,
I'm an American married to a Filipina and living in the states. We're interested in Davao for relocation. Unfortunately the US housing market is falling while, it seems, the Davao prices are climbing, and I need to sell out here to be able to buy or build there.
My question is why are you renting rather than building or buying? I'm not prying into your personal business; I'd just like to get a better understanding of what appear to be some discrepancies between the conventional wisdom that it's inexpensive for Americans to live in the Philippines, and some of the high prices I'm seeing for houses there.
Thanks,
James
Hi James – Firstly, I am quickly coming to the conclusion that the idea the "conventional" wisdom is no longer that accurate, and I'll be writing about that soon.
Regarding why I rent, I have addressed that many times on the blog, perhaps you missed those articles. Read here, here and here to get an idea.
That being said, as I have also written repeatedly, Feyma and I bought a piece of land on Samal Island last year, and we plan to build a house there. We won't live there for about 9 more years, because it does not fit in with plan for our kid's education (there are no good private schools on the island, and thus we won't live there until our kids are all in college).
Thanks Bob,
You really did address the rental issue before, and you've convinced me it's wise to rent initially. I think I'll uncover more info on my own now that I got smart and started to use your Google site search utility.
Thanks,
–James
Hi James – good luck in your search for your ultimate residence. I do think that renting at first is the right move! n Good luck also with the site search! 😆
Hi Bob
Hi Bob
It seem that you are the man (again) to contact in regards to anything DAVAO, thanks for that, anyway, myself and my filipina gf are looking to move to Davao and have so much we need to know,
my biggest problem is knowing where to look for a rental apartment,,and if we are getting a good deal or not, i have never been to davao and have no idea ,we are going to visit and see if we fit in with the life there in april.we are looking forwrad to meeting you to say thanks in person.
Hi Bob
If you have any websites that can give us info on all the little ??s that need answers when moving,like, med insurance, book shops,newspaper ad prices,expat clubs or any one of the dozens of ??s i have,if anyone has this info,,please please let us know, we are looking to start our life over in DAVAO and hope to make some new friends asap.i am from uk,but seems that most in davao are from us,
also, is it allowed for me to work even if i am married to my filipina ,??
as always bob,
thanks,
Hi Steve – Most of the questions that you are asking are already answered here on this site. I will give some cursory answers here, but if you search the site there are detailed posts on nearly every one of these subjects.
1. Medical care is cheap here. We do not have health insurance, because we can easily handle the cost to pay for care ourselves. There are several medical insurance packages available through PhilHealth, Blue Cross and PruLife.
2. Book shops. In Davao, you have basically two choices for books – National Bookstore, and some of the used book kiosks in malls. Choice is very limited. I wrote a whole series of articles on this last month on how and where to get books.
3. Newspaper ad prices – cheap.
4. Expat organizations. There are two that I know of. Friends of Mindanao (do a search on my Mindanao Blog for more info http://www.Mindanao.com) and the other is called "Union of Foreigners."
5. There are lots of foreigners here in Davao, you should have no problem making new friends here.
Honestly, this site covers nearly every possible aspect of living here in the Philippines. Read the site, do a search for specific topics, it should answer all of your questions.
I'd be happy to meet you when you are in Davao.
im looking for housing in Davao City. I will be visiting there for a month so Im looking for a two bedroom house to rent there for a month starting april 1st. And its just been hard to locate a place any suggestions, advice and or offers will help. Thanks Bob and to all.
Hi Ali King – I'm sorry to say, but I know of no houses that can be rented on a month by month basis. Problem is that every house I know of requires a one year lease. Sorry, if I knew of anything I'd be very happy to assist you.
have you moved to samal island yet? that's a 45 min boat ride from davao….
Hi ronnie – I am sorry, but whoever gave you your information is incorrect. The boat ride from Davao City to Samal takes between 10 and 15 minutes (I have made the ride at least 100 times, so I know). As I have said on this site many times, our plans are to move to Samal around 2017 or so, because we want all of our kids to finish school first, before we move. We have already purchased land there and we will start building on our land in the near future.
Hello All,
I am traveling to Davao in November and staying for 4 months and my elderly father is visiting me in January for three months. We each want our own place close to each other with clean air close to the water but also to shopping and such. Is Davao safe for expats and is there nice housing for about 18000p to 20000p??? Any suggestions is greatly appreciated as I have never been in Davao.
Respectfully,
Dave
Hi David Severn- Davao is very safe, and you won't experience any safety issues here, in my opinion. With the amount you have to spend for housing, you can find a nice place in Davao.
Enjoy your visit!
hi bob…i grew up here in davao..its good to hear about that development in davao city…yeah,,,there may really be cheap houses now in the city but what's disappointing is that we still have squatter's areas,,..hope our government will be more serious about this…
Hi Bob. Thanks for putting up this blog which I find very helpful especially for someone like me planning to relocate in Davao. I'm a Filipino and spent all my life in Manila but planning to move to Davao on March.
I did some research and was a bit surprised that rentals are higher than I expected, although still cheaper than Manila prices. I'm planning to go to a college in Davao and will be living on my own so a small apartment would do. My budget is 10000 or less. I've never been to Davao and will be staying in a hotel for a few days once I get there while looking for an apartment/house. Fingers crossed, I really wish I could find a decent place for 10000 or less.
im looking for house to rent.
is your house still available?
and whould you give me the exact adress?
when should i visit there
i wish if u send me back to this e-mail
Hi Bob;
This same advice was given to me years ago, and it is still very good advice today. “I” have never heard of anybody receiving the deposit back. The way you recommend is the best way. I also left the landlord with copies of my paid utility bills upon leaving to insure no problem in the future. I rented until I was 100% (or as close as I could get) to knowing where I wanted to reside, and build a house. I was further lucky as both of my landlords were honorable gentlemen.
Hi Paul – Thanks for that vote of confidence! 😉 Yes, as you said, there will need to be some assurance that bills are left paid too, and copies of receipts are a good way to accomplish that. In all of my time in the Philippines, and many landlords, I have only had one that was not so good.
Hi Bob – I agree, too. Until you’re very sure of where and how you want to live, renting beats out owning. Many renters will agree that time makes the property they lease look less and less appealing and the desire for a change of scenery becomes stronger and stronger.
I think I’m one of the luckiest persons here. Since last Chirstmas time (November), I’ve had six honest offers to purchase our house and I’ve sold three copies of the blueprints. All involved Balikbayan couples who were planning their retirement “back home”!
This would skew any statistical view of renting/owning comparisons – truly a fluke. I’m sure that if I wanted to sell, there’d be no one around! 😀
Hi Paul;
Why is it that when you don’t want to sell, you get all the offers? I’ve received a few in the past, and then I’ll explain that it’s not for sale. Depending on the market in the future, I’d agree with Bob, That I’ll never get back what I put into it, except piece of mind that my wife and our family will always have a place to live, that’s all I really care about. (Bob that’s a nice picture of you and your wife!)
Hi Paul – I fully agree with you that the one big plus to home ownership here is that it can give you the peace of mind that your wife, children and any other family that you care for has a place to stay, in case of your demise.
Glad you like that pic! You know, I just found that on my hard drive, and was asking my wife about it… I had forgotten about that picture, and I like it too!
Hi Paul – Ha ha.. I didn’t even notice! I don’t allow the spelling police to moderate LiP anyway! 😉
Hi Paul – Isn’t it true that there are always buyers when we don’t want to sell! I had a similar (mis)adventure when trying to sell my house in the States before moving here. I do think that overall, for the majority of people, it is a wise move to rent here for a while before making that final decision to spend the money to build or buy a place.
Word usage; Thanks Bob;
I noticed my error while reading your response.
I must remember it’s “I have peace of mind”, or “I’ll give them a piece of my mind”. Lord English ain’t easy! (LOL)
Hi Rob – Ha ha.. I’ve never seen a sign like that!
I like that line, Gary – “I think many people in the US are finding out they should have been renters – but then they weren’t really buyers either, just mortgage payers” – that’s a classic!
I think many people in the US are finding out they should have been renters – but then they weren’t really buyers either, just mortgage payers 😛
I’m in a somewhat unique situation that we already had a house, but when we lived here in the nineties we definitely rented and I couldn’t agree with you more.
Paul T .
You do not speak English it sounds like English but it is not. I really do not know what is going through the minds of ex colonials now a days.
Bob
Please forgive just a couple of friends having a joke.
Buying /Renting always a debate what Paul T mentions really makes sense. A freind in Queson City bought a house he arrived nice and fresh in Queson from the US.Also clueless about local conditons. His missus fell in love with the first house they set eyes on. Bought it straight away moved in everything hunky dorry only to find out they now had the local mafia and a bordello for neighbours. As the old saying goes you cannot beat local knowledge To rub salt into the wounds a couple of months later the wifes family hords of them from the provinces moved in with them. One could say it could drive you to drink in his case thats exactly what it did. Buying property in Phil you really have to be street wise.
Hey Frank;
You are correct again about our speaking of English. With so many of us and so few of you, we’ve just changed the name of the language to “AMERICAN” sounds good, doesn’t? Yes Bob we’re still joking. (lol)
How are you doing buddy?
Hi Frank – No problem on the jokes…
Hi Bob- My thoughts are, by buying a property should anything happen to the man of the house God forbid at least the wife and children would be left with a roof over their heads.Not only would they have a roof they would have an asset.This is just Brit logic, but I find here in the Philippines lots of ex-pats do not own property but have families and nothing back in their own country either to fall back on.
I often wonder what provision if any they have made for the future?
Regards.
Jim.
You are probably Lucky to have the Filipino landlords you have,live in San Diego, California we have the “Landlords From Hell” I think they all go to school just to learn all the rotten tricks and compete to see how many tenants they can screw over each month.
I’m with you Paul! Your plan sounds very good… American!
Hi Bob
What you wrote makes sense. I do have a question. What about short term rental? Is that possible there? Our plan is to visit the Philippines for 5 – 6 months a year, but I have no intention of staying in one place for all that time. I plan to see all of the Philippines over the years. Maybe a month or two with the inlaws around Xmas. We have talked about building a house, but it does not make sense to build a house you may live in for only two months a year. I know you can rent an apartment/hotel room in Manila by the month, but it is expensive. Say I want to spend a month or two in Davao or Cebu. Is it better to just rent at a resort or hotel, or can you rent a house for that time? What makes more sense?
Gonna see all the PI in 6 months?! You are kidding yourself.
Hi Jim – Well, unless the person mis-manages his money, if he doesn’t buy the house, he has the cash to leave for the widow. Buying is a personal decision, though. In general, I support buying a place, my only thing is that the person needs to be sure he is buying/building in the right place, the place where he intends to stay for good. In my case, I am not yet ready to make the commitment.
6 months a year for (I hope) 15 plus years
Hi zeke – there are good and bad people in every country of the world.
Hi Barry – I think that Allan meant that he will be in the Philippines for 6 months or so each year, not see the entire Philippines in just 6 months.
Jack;
A friend of mine bought an existing house; he went to add a second floor to it and discovered it was built with no re-bar. Buyer beware! How will you know if it’s well built?
Hi Allan – Usually, here in the Philippines, the landlord wants a 1 year lease at the minimum. Perhaps you can find an exception, you’ll have to search for it.
Hi Jack – I don’t think that I advised against building in favor of buying an existing place. But, my main advice is to rent for a while until you are certain that you have found the right place, then buying or building.
Bob,
You gave good advise. I will show this post to Juramie. I was thinking about building a place in Leyte but I think I will look for an existing property to save money. We will rent until we are ready to buy. The biggest issue will be finding an existing house that is well built.
Paul has a very valid point, here. Perhaps, it is better to rent, while deciding if the area “works” for you, then have a home built, rather than buy a pre-existing structure.
Though we’ve never rented in The Philippines, my wife & I were planning to offer long-term rentals to foreigners of the beach houses we are constructing on Samal. I hadn’t even considered security deposits, but it makes sense, especially when renting to people who have the ability to leave the city/region/country quickly. I’d hate to be saddled with utility bills and/or damage.
We already have a house rented out in Davao(Buhangin) and just collecting the rent has been a real nightmare. As the couple who rents the house is in their 70s and pays their own utilities, I’ve written the deal off as a charity case. Of course, that doesn’t seem to stop their daughter, in Japan, from calling us whenever something needs repair. Removing delinquent renters is not an easy process in The RP.
Mike
Hi Mike – I think that getting a security deposit is imperative anywhere in the world. You just never know what the renter will do as far as damage, skipping out with unpaid bills and such, so the deposit allows at least some cover for such a situation.
In the US, a rule of thumb to calculate a ballpark sale price for a house is to multiply the monthly rent it can demand by 100. From comments I’ve read here, that factor would be much higher in the RP. Is there an easy explanation for why this is the case?
–James
Hi James – Yes, in the USA, a house can generally bring about 1% of it’s value in monthly rent. In the Philippines, a house owner will get way less than that in rent. For example, our house only rents for about .003% of it’s “supposed” value. I don’t know why, but that is one reason why I said in the article that renting here instead of buying makes good economic sense.
Hi Bob, great topic. One of my renter of my house at Davao near SM moved out and I told them that I will release their one month security deposit after all utilities are cleared so that I wont be hussled when the next renter moves in if utilities left unpaid.
I have a two bedroom 1 bath available 3rd week of march fully furnished at Tulip drive fuente de villa abrille subd. I already told Feyma if you guys know someone who need a place to stay and can email me for more info. This is located in a gated subdivision just 56 sq. meter floor area with hot shower.
I normally ask for 2 months advance rent and one month security deposit. Let me know if you wanted to see the place.
Hi jeff – Yes, Feyma has mentioned to me about your place near SM. If we happen to know anybody looking for a place in the area, Feyma will certainly be in touch. Take care!
I think I can offer some speculation about the low rent compared to the high cost of buying.
First, of those I have met, the universal filipina dream is a ‘fully cemented house” and a “sari sari store”.
It is about how far you can fall if things get bad. Eviction is a honest concern for 100% of renters. If your income is sporadic, your job dependent on political whim, life is so much harder trying to find money when you don’t have a place to live.
Further, family here is from the grandparents down to babies. I am reminded of a guy who can’t buy rice but he has pride that he is the head of a 60 person family who respect him and care for him. If his residence changes 6 times in 10 years, where is that families home?
Here a house is not a home it is a definition of who you are, your life, your community. It is like people asking “where is your place?” and I answer, “Gee, I don’t have one”. Nobody here can comprehend that answer. But people in the USA would understand moving 23 times before I finished high school. The standard request for almost anything in the PI is a “barranguy clearance”. Honest if I could not get one, moving to a new place is no big thing. For locals, changing residences is a really big thing. And being denied a clearance due to a variety of reasons is crippling for the locals, and that is why it is asked for.
Abu Farsi
Hi Abu Farsi – What you describe as “universal” for a Filipina is certainly not so, though. I do understand that you said that what you say is “for those you have met” though. For example, if you asked Feyma if she wanted a “fully cemented house with a sari-sari store” would laugh at you. I would say that would be true with any more worldly Filipina, or person with money.
Renting makes economic sense but the insecurity means you can never really consider the place home. Therefore I’ll be buying a place as soon as I’ve decided where I want to live (which as you say is not something to rush into). Transforming a bahay into exactly the kind of home my partner and I want will be a never-ending labour of love, without the worry that one day the landlord will arrive and tell us we have to leave.
You’re correct that we would be better off financially if we kept renting, but maybe we are getting sentimental in our old age :).
Hi Ken – I can’t argue with you, we will likely end up building a house of our own too. We just have not yet settled where we will be permanently, so it won’t happen yet.
Bob..I would think that any body that is comming to Davao City or to GenSan it would be a good idea for them to get a hold of Feyma. I am sure that she Knows both areas very well and being that she is a Fillipina and from the area she knows the in and outs of how Fillipinos do things and to me be well worth the money to have her do the looking and such. In the long run a new person to those areas looking for housing would be money aheand and grey hairs ahead also…hahah…
Hi Dan – Yes, for anybody coming to Davao, I believe that the service Feyma is providing is a good one. I was just not meaning to make the article an advertisement for her service, though, and also make it applicable to searching for a place anywhere in the Philippines. Thanks for the plug though. 😉
Hi Paul – We certainly are not in Kansas.. heck, we are not even in Oregon or anywhere else in the USA! Things are different here, and one must adapt how they go about doing certain things in order to be effective here.
What I meant by we’re not in Kansas anymore, is here we can’t just call up Century 21 and get listings of rental properties. We here, must search, meet people, and ask around, which would be, to follow the advice you wrote above.
Hi Bob;
As a fellow traveler on the Yellow Brick Road, I should have caught that. Sometimes Dorthy has to drop a house on me so I understand (lol)
Plus, just what is it that Romans do????
Hi Bob- I think the important thing is that Feyma is straight with people about what the deal is ie who she is working for. That in itself is a huge advantage for the Buyer ! lol Plus from what I have read from Feyma even if she ends up getting paid by the agent I have no doubt that the info she gives to the Buyers will be honest with no games being paid – again another huge advantage for the Buyer – and something very hard to find here. Too many “agents ” or finders here try to make a killing on every deal and dont care about their reputation , whereas if Feyma gets know as someone honest and reliable I’m sure the long term dividends will pay off exceedingly well for her.
Hi brian – Yes, it is certainly on Feyma’s to do list. Interesting info on the lady in Manila. I fully agree that having big exposure to western business is a big plus for somebody like Feyma.
Maybe what Feyma is considering doing would be in the line of a Consultant. People consult others in the known on certain things, because they their self lack all the info they need on what ever it is, or need to know more on what ever it is they are lacking information on.
I no most Consultants get paid for their services and so should Feyma and from the sounds of some of the posts..seems some would not want her to get paid for her services.
You do not need a Real Estate License to give people honest direction in what would be a good or bad choice for them or be a Consultant to them as far as what would be a good place to rent or bad place and etc.
Wow! Not bad at all!
Thanks, Ian.
Money ahead…
Hi Bob;
We’re not in Kansas anymore! I remember years ago how difficult it was to find a nice place to rent. I pretty much followed the way you advised above and lucked out twice. But if I could have found a service like Feyma is offering, that would have been invaluable.
One thing you touched on that many newcomers won’t think of. Business cards or calling cards. Many folks never used them in their life, others have and, now retired, don’t want to think of them any more … but for a foreigner, they can be a useful tool.
Even in mall locations you can get 100 or 500 business cards run off for a ridiculously low amount … typically while you wait. The ones I carry just have the URL of my blog and an email acount (that only appears on the card, so I know when I get email from a card contact).
I’m sure these cards have brought some blog readers … but they have been extremely valuable for hunting things down …(I wrute my cell phone number on the card if I want texts or messages). The cheap little cards are also “door openers”. Stopped at ahotel one day where I wanted to ask the mamanger a question at the request of an overseas freind. Theree people behind the front desk with the all-too-typcial answer, “Manager’s not avalable, sir.”
I left a card and asked the desk clerk to pass it on to the manager. She said yes. Turned to go out the door and here came the manager, huffing and puffing with a big story about how she had just arrived back at the hotel … whatever. I git to meet her, got my question answered on the first trip … all becuase of that cheap piece of card stock. Very useful tool.
Hi Paul – Ha ha.. I think you might have misinterpreted what I said in my reply to you. I used to have a very close friend who was also American who lived here. Actually, we are still friends, but he doesn’t live here anymore. Anyway, whenever we would see something a bit unusual, one of us would look at the other and say “we aren’t in Kansas anymore…” the other one would always say “we’re not even in Illinois” or name any other State. It was a little joke between us! When you mentioned the Kansas saying.. it was just an automatic response from me! When in Rome… do as the Romans do! 😉
Good article, Bob! From the states, would your cell number be +639152160300 from the computer or 011639152160300 using a calling card?. I think I asked this question but Yahoo has blew up my old account.
I never would have thought of using a business card. Now, my brain is searching for ideas.
Thanks,
Ed
Hi Dave – I really am in full agreement with you on this. Having a business card (or as they call it here, a calling card) is very important here. It shows that you are serious. It shows that you are not playing around. People think you are an “important person” if you have a calling card. People also treasure getting a calling card, and they save it, almost like a souvenir. Getting one from a foreigner is very special too. And, as you said it is cheap to get them printed up. I have what I consider to be a very nice business card, which has the cartoon picture of me that I am sure most readers have seen before on the site. It is printed on very heavy card stock. I pay a bit extra for a high quality card, but I feel it is worth it.
Ha ha… those Romans are tricky, Paul… you just never know what they are going to do. But, if you are in Rome, you should copy whatever it is that they do! 😉
Hi Bob!
Quick question.
Is Feyma a duly licensed Philippine Real Estate Agent? Meaning did she attended all the schooling and pass the test required by the Philippine government? Or is she working with one on a referral basis? If that is the case, please tell us about the agent’s background.
Thanks
Hi Ed – Yes, the way you put the numbers should be exactly correct if making the call from the States.
Business cards are very important here, even if you don’t have a job! I do recommend that everybody get a business card of their own, and perhaps several different ones! For example, at times in the past, I have used multiple different cards, for different websites or different businesses that I own. I have now consolidated and use just one, but at some point in the future I could go back to using multiple cards again.
In the Philippines, as in most places, real estate agents are operating in a basic conflict of interest. They are paid by the seller, but usually are showing the houses to, and discussing the merits of said houses, to the buyers. Many buyers develop a relationship with the realtor in these circumstances, and dont give much thought that in fact the realtor is being paid for, and acting on behalf of the seller. Some places now require the realtors to sign a disclosure statement – especially if only one realtor is involved- stating that they are being paid by the seller..
Feymar is offering a specialized service, in that she is offering to help buyers find and negotiate upon their behalf, and only upon their behalf. When you are a newbie somewhere, and thus a ready victim, having someone like Feyma on your side can be a really big help. Not only can she save you time, but also can help prevent you from making a huge -and sometimes expensive-mistake when you make a purchase. Especially here in the Philippines where all those consumer laws you are used to that protect you other places just simply do not exist.
As long as Feyma is not accepting any commission or finders fee from the realtors that she refers you to then I would strongly recommend using her services. She is local, she knows the area, she speaks the language, she is no push over, and she knows the games.
Hi John – At this time, Feyma is not a real estate agent, although she is considering becoming one. Currently, she works with a number of licensed agents around Davao, GenSan and other parts of the Philippines. She is not offering real estate services, she is helping our readers make a connection with real estate agents, and also helping our readers by being on their side and guiding them in their dealings with the agents involved to make sure that our readers are not taken advantage of.
Feyma should really think about getting her real estate lic. I know a ameri/filipina(she returned with mother back to RP when she was 15 ..now 35) who 4-5 years ago started a property management/sales business in Manila ( yes I know different market but principle the same) that strictly dealt with expats who owned properties and managed them for them, seems expats prefered to deal with a westernized business mentality/langauge ect, her and partner have done extremely well.
Just asked wiffy about update on her…seems some company bought them out….= to 7 figures USD..she retired.
Hi Ian – Ha ha… I really didn’t intend to make this article an advertisement for Feyma… but a lot of you guys did it for me! 😆 Anyway, you are right about who a real estate agent represents – the person who pays them. Feyma and I are still working out exactly how this venture will be done on the financial end… perhaps she will offer the reader here the option – you pay me and I’ll represent your interests, or if you prefer not to pay then I will take a commission from the real estate agent. Not sure yet.
Hi Dan – Yes, Feyma already does consulting, and I have told her that I consider this latest venture to be an extension of that. She really is not, in her present business, acting as a real estate agent or broker, she is only offering advice and help in making the connection to people who use her services. I totally agree with everything you say.
Thanks for your support, Dan.
Two thoughts:
1. could you write a posting about the “do’s and don’t’s” of renting/leasing based on your experience. for example, who pays for repairs and what to do if the landlord does not pay. (In one lease contract I lived under, the landlord had one week after being informed to correct the problem or if he did not, I could do it myslef and subtract whatever I paid to the lease payments.)
2. Adding to all the other adice that you have received regarding Feyma’s new business, several ideas:
a. in Canada, and I think in the US too, there is a service that for a relatively modest fee comes into the house and advises the buyer on what needs to be fixed and the cost and what is aobut to go. Feyma could arrange that here (or do it herself if she has the expertise).
b. Could act as the agent for the buyer, not only to look for properties, but also to screen out the “excuse me, that is not what I asked for” situations. Recently we went to a bank and asked if they had any foreclose rice land that they were interested in selling. Oh yes, said the manager, and took us to one residential house and lot and one tract of coconut land.
c. Feyma could also become conversant with the ins and outs of land transfer, both agricultural and residential land. sometimes the transfer process is HORRENDOUS and filled with potholes for the unwarry, e.g., taxes not paid for years and must be paid before the land transfer (who pays?), getting squatters off the land, capital gains taxes, inheritance taxes, and on and on with all the glories of land transfer in this country. Alternatively, she could line up a reasonably priced, competetant and expeditious lawyer. At the least she could construct a check list for buyers of all the steps. In this, she could vet all the documents to see if they are correct, e.g., “Genelyn Lecraw, single” instead of “Genelyn Lecraw, married”, took two and a half years and four court appearance to correct.
Hi ProfDon – The “do’s and don’t’s” thing would be a pretty complex article to write. There are just so many different things that could be included, and it would be hard not to miss some things. I will consider it and see what I can think up.
On the suggestions, I’ll pass that along to Feyma and see what she feels fits into the scope of what she wants to do.
Thanks for the suggestions.
ProfDon- whatever experience we have had before does not even come close to preparing us for buying land or houses in the Phil. lol
Usual process most places- the seller contacts an agent, signs a listing agreement, and the place is put on the market at a specific price. Here, forget signing a listing agreement- its a free for all with brokers, agents, finders, fixers and jeepney drivers all trying to make a commission by finding a buyer for the house. And as to the selling price?? forget it most of the time, coz sometimes the seller here will just plain refuse to name a price. They assume that buyers will make them offers, all of which they will automatically reject and ask much much more than that! [ doesnt apply to new houses in subdivisions] . I have contacted people 5 or 6 times before I was able to get them to committ to a price- even a ridiculous one . I have never heard of anyone getting an inspection done here, and find that many sellers have never done any maintenance at all , with the exception of ones that were required such as roof leaks. When i bought my house it had 143 burned out light bulbs !!
If you a foreigner who has not had basic training in hard core negotiating/arm wrestling forget trying to do a deal on your own. The sellers generally [ maybe always?] ask outrageous prices, which they do NOT for one moment expect to get, and are not offended when you counter at a similaryly outrageously low price. And get used to the term ” rush sale”. I think its supposed to be the same as our “fire sale”, but loses effect here since just about every sale here is a rush sale ! lol The other thing that is very different here is that sellers will many times have their house for sale for several years, because they refuse to lower the price to a reasonable price. I thing the thinking is that if someone comes along who is willing to pay that price they will sell it, otherwise its not really for sale. lol
Someone said that people were expecting Feyma to work for nothing and I have reread every post and found not one mention of that. Feyma, by the mere fact that she is filipina and thus not a rich- foreigner-buyer-with-unlimited-funds can most of the time negotiate a better price than we can. And for that she definitely deserves to be paid. Of course you know that if the seller is paying her then the sales price will reflect that fact- but then that is the same everywhere you come from
I really dont see the use of Feyma doing a ” dos and donts” article. Its way too complicated. It involves variables such as culture, language,local legalities, etc etc. If you are serious about buying just hire her and use her expertise. Real estate is my business and I would feel very comfortable dealing with her . [ and I dont even know her personally]
Ian, both you and Bob have written on the order of: it’s very complicated so we would have difficulty writing about it. Why? I am asking for some basic “rules of the road.” In fact, in your posting, you have already given many.
As for your suggestion that instead of asking for a “do’s and don’ts”, better to hire Feyma, great, as long as she is ok with traveling 400 km and advising in an area in which she has no geographical or personal knowledge. If I lived in Davao, I’d do it in a heartbeat. But most of us do not live in Davao.
p.s., if I buy a house, I’ll remember to check lightbulbs first. and by the way, that must be some house to require so many lightbulbs.
Hi. I am moving to Surigao del Norte around November, 2010. I have a girlfriend who does not want to move to the USA, so I am going to move there. We have known each other over a year now.
My question is: How dangerous is Mindanao? I read about the NPA attacking the home of some mayor candidate there in SDN with about 50 armed soldiers in May of this year. Also, in Pampanga, where my gf is presently living with her sister, a guy killed several foreigners because he apparently wanted to prove that he could be a good NPA.
Sounds riskly moving there, especially if things start to really heat up against the American presence.
Just wondering what your thoughts on all of this is and what your own experience with any violence there. After I move to SDN, then I am flying my gf and her sis back to SDN. We will live there in SDN where she has family.
Thanks!
Hi Dan – My thoughts about the safety of living or traveling in Mindanao can be found here.
I have lived in Mindanao for more than a decade, and I’ve been to some dangerous parts of Mindanao too. Never had a problem. I do not consider Surigao to be dangerous at all.
Good luck with the move.
The guy killing foreigners was just basic robbery. He was a computer repairman and that is how he gained entry into their houses.
Hi Bob,
Good article. I know I have asked the question before on another article and the answer was very sufficient. Thinking about land value and building in the Philippines as a foreigner may seem less expensive in comparison of their own countries. Maybe that is the reason why people keep asking the question. But like myself some people may not have all the facts about buying property and building in the Philippines.
I can live in any style home but can others. So your point about foreign tastes in homes and the possiblity to sell that home are valid points. Before when I looked at Pilipino homes I thought “how plain and drab” but realizing later that all a person needs is four walls and a few rooms in the middle and a roof. All of the conveniences we have here in the US in a home would be nice in the Philippines but to sell it would be a different story.
I really appreciate your honesty and open answer of your reasons for renting versus buying. Your non-confrontational and reserved attitude is very nice to see. I appreciate your patience with questions that people have about life in the Philippines and not becoming irritated buy such questions. Thank you Bob.
Thanks, Darin. You know… I’ve written many times about renting vs. buying, but the subject still comes up. Once an article is in the archives, a lot of people can’t find it or don’t even look, so I’ll probably end up writing about this in the future.
My thing is, if a person wants to buy, no problem. That is their choice. It’s also my choice to rent, which some people don’t seem to understand.
I appreciate your comment, Darin. Thanks!
Hi Greg – Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I don’t agree 100%, but I agree with many of your thoughts.
I am not sure why my selection of contributors here is suspect. I have offered dozens of others the opportunity to contribute here, but they declined. Most said they were too busy, some said that don’t consider themselves good writers, etc. What is suspect about it? Just curious.
Hi Bob, and all!
My chime is that all people’s conditions are different.
I offer a couple thoughts not explored.
1. My, and many Expat wives and families come from very disgusting histories. For example, my wifes family were always squatters, awaiting the next knock/ahyoo on the door, to further disrespect and squash humanity at its basic level. Owning a home for my family was the single greatest gift I could supply. The fear of displacement is/was no longer an issue. Imagine the relief! How huge is the emotional comfort knowing that every improvement was for you, rather than an ‘owner’. This cannot be understated in such a caste and cruel system.
2. Ownership is solidity. At the end of the day, most of our/Expat wives will outlive us. In my mind the economic advantages of renting are at best suspect, and only serve to perpetuate the perception that Expats also rent their bedmates, and surely they all harbour this sentiment in their bones. I believe that if you marry, then you are obliged to provide, as a man. Renting is often a cowards approach based on purely financial conditions that may, or may not be accurate. In this article, Mr. Martin fortifies his position of favoring renting by citing his experiences of witnessing many Expat properties either remaining unsold or transferred at substantially reduced prices. I ask, in the last 3-4 years, how is Davao any different than the rest of the world? Being a gent who has a substantiated record of real estate success, I offer that Mr. Martin’s presentation of real estate investment is not above challenge.
3. I believe that if a man takes a wife, (and all the responsibilities in tow), that he and his new family are obligated to contribute to the civic betterment of his clime. Ownership/Citizenship demonstrates that you desire to assimilate, contribute and participate. You commit to participate in your community by investing in same via ownership. A serial renter simply does not engender legitimacy to same because he has not ‘ put his money where his mouth is’.
The ensconced residents recognize this fact, and respects the opinions of same accordingly.
Mr. Bob Martin is a very impressive gent, as evidenced by his efforts sourced from Davao City to provide information and services about this country and his clime. He has enumerated his reasonings for why he chooses to rent vs settle in the clime from which he derives income. He has stated that he has invested in his region by owning land. I respect his reasonings and agknowledge that he and his family has resided in Davao for many years.
If the discussion is a debate upon ownership versus renting, I always propose that emotional considerations are on par with financial conditions, given the general economic disparity of west v. Philippines. Both choices have merit. I would offer that a Filipina who chooses to marry a westerner, does so under much greater stress than a western gal. The fact that her (usual) economic condition is part of the decision making process should only inspire a western gent to be more respectful /understanding than less is obviously prophetic. Mr. Martin inspires many Expats with his travels and apparant understanding of the Philippine condition, though I found no treatment of the emotional condition in his thoughts on the subject. His was a basic economic/financial expose, where I would offer a much more heartfelt treatment of the subject. For me, I was fortunate to meet , be in love with, and marry a mature gal, with which we were able to form a unified strategy to deal with extended family. She is 10 years my junior, and with little ‘booksmarts’, yet she is as wise as any person I have ever known. I am lucky and also a bit wise. I did not marry a child.
For the rest of her life, and generations beyond, not a single night will be spent wondering when the ‘knock on the door will come that tells them to relocate’. I submit that this singular fact trumps all the economic/financial ‘spin’ offered in Mr. Martin’s article celebrating renting over purchase-that is if you are financially capable, and man enough to step up when you said, ‘I do’.
I greatly admire Mr. Martin. His selection of contributors is sometimes suspect, but he owns the press, and his track record of persistence and success is inspirational. The fact that he has the guts to take his lardass to trouble spots in this country makes the world a safer place-if I have to explain this I’d be wasting my breath. He is a pioneer, a mountain man in the USA west, and one who will be sought after for advisement for many years. He is a Nobel guy, yet most don’t recognize his impact.
Thats how I roll!!
Thank you,
Greg May
Butuan City
HI Boss – You are right, you gotta do your homework. The example you point out of pollution and such is something that really makes me want to keep renting. My situation with the previous neighbors is another one.
Hi John – You are so correct. The cost of construction has really skyrocketed here, especially if you want to do something “western style”. Not only is it expensive to do western style… but that often makes it more difficult to sell as well!
Hi Dan – I agree with you… either buying or renting can be right, it’s an individual choice for each person to make. You are right, a lot of Americans who used to say that real estate only goes up in price have woken up in the last couple of years.
Hi Bob,
First off, I am not a native english speaker, so I hope my grammatical mistakes and such won’t be much of a problem for the readers 🙂 Anyways, I have just read your article, and I find out that renting is more suitable in my current situation. I have been in Manila for about 2 years now, and even though there were times when I considered buying a condo, I just decided to wait and get to know the country, the law and people more, so I can have a better judgement at the end.
Your article and the replies to your post just made me wonder one thing though: What do you guys think about the rent-to-buy option that they offer in Manila and probably in every other major city? I am not a an investor by no means, and I don’t know much about the country, but I know that foreigners are allowed to buy condos, and it occurs to me that a condo should be fairly easy to sell or rent, compared to a western-standard house in the province. It would make me feel that I am investing, rather than giving the money away. I understand that it would tie you up to a certain place and therefore limiting your choices to move to another place, but people around me say that I can easily sell the condo after paying it for a year or two, if I ever decide to go rent a house in someplace else.
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts in here. Almost every reply made me learn more about how things work in the Philippines. So, needless to say, your thoughts regarding my question would be much appreciated.
I agree with pretty much everything you said Bob. Since I have been there to Davao now 2 times in the past 4 months. You are right about the price of the homes and “IF” it will go up in price. People that have never been to the Philippines think its just like the US and that a house is a investment for the future. N0 its not, its a place that you can call home and just retire and enjoy life. You are doing the right thing. Hope to meet you when I am back in a few months. keep in touch.
I don’t get it why people would equate your intelligence to being stupid simply because you choose not to own a house. I mean, c’mon! It’s a matter of choice. And it’s your choice not to be tangled by all the hassles of being a homeowner – and there’s nothing wrong with that. You also made a lot of great points in your article, Bob. Mostly I agree with, but you have to remember that The Philippines is a very small country and the population is not getting any smaller anytime soon. That means, you’re going to have to face the traffic, loud noise and shitty neighbors eventually, no matter where you are in the country.
Bob
Based on the simple math alone I agree with you on this one.
I cant imagine being stuck with nasty neighbors and having to take a beating on trying to sell the house just to move away from them I probably would let my temper get the best of me and end up being thrown out of the country.
I wouldn’t feel the need to explain anything to anyone as far as to you decision.
Stupid hmmm, your living relatively debt free, doing what you want, not doing the typical rat race in your own version of margaritaville. Stupid is not a word that comes to my mind.
Thanks for the follow up Darin. I have probably heard some of the same things that your father used to tell you about opinions! 😉
Here in the US I rent so I have no problem with renting either. We would like to buy but that time is not yet. Being married to a Filipina has opened my eyes a lot more about what type of home we should buy and keeping a simple eye. Seeing where her family lives and how simple they live as well but still have time to do everything they want and travel around as often as they do has helped me out alot.
As my father has told me on many an occasion everyone has an opinion. He said some other things about opinions but this is a family site and I don’t want to be put on moderation.
The more I read your articles and how you speak the more I see the Philippines coming out in you. I guess the same goes for people who come to live here in the US the longer they are here the more they act like Americans. 🙂
Greg May…..may be Tom from the squatters article. What’s with that “lardass” comment? A joke, maybe, but very crude and smells like bitterness. The whole comment reeks of narcissism. I wouldn’t pay attention to his opinion on your contributors, Bob, your contributors are great, I enjoy reading all their articles on this site.
Hi Bob – I was hoping to get a general perspective on the issue from other readers and their thoughts about the subject. I trust you don’t mind me asking the question.
Regards.
Jim.
Hi Sir Bob, if people can’t find or don’t want to search the archives for similar articles maybe you can list the similar archived articles in the right hand column?
Bob
The answer is whats best for you. Nothing more. Financial experts say buying a house isn’t always the best thing to do. Have a wonderful day Bob and always do whats best for your family.
Bob;
“Frankly, given these kind of numbers, it makes no sense to buy.” Could have be stated clearer, by saying “Frankly, given these kind of numbers, it makes no sense (For Me) to buy.”
The fact of the matter is I still agree with your logic about renting, in “your case”. My case is: I built my house eleven years ago using cash from my Merchant Marine salary. As I knew that one day I’d be on a pension, and might not be able to afford high rent in the future, and be forced to have to move to a cheaper location. You are still earning and process the potential to earn more.
There are two sides to every coin and either side can come up heads. Both of us are right, under our own circumstances. BTW; no flames or personal attacks were used to state my point of view (lol)
Thanks, Randy. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Thank you Kevin, glad you enjoyed it.
Hi Bob – I agree but they were build by developers not indiviuals as in my case so the costs are higher doing it that way. Anyway I built in 2005 costs have risen since then.
Regards.
Jim.
No problem, Jim… I was just pointing out that one thing and the other are not mutually exclusive. Choosing not to buy does not mean that one cannot afford to buy.
Hi imagine – I wish I could just put wheels (or a sail) on the place and do that! BTW, where are you nowadays?
Hi Bob- Thats a UK saying when you present your argument for your actions nothing more lol.
As I said each to our own and I’m glad we did what we did when we did, as we can now enjoy our life without too many financial worries considering the turbulent financial times we live in.
Kind regards.
Jim.
“Why choose to rent in the Philippines” is a very good article which help me to consider rent or buy a house in philippines. thanks a lot.
No Problem, Jim. I am glad that you don’t have any financial worries… I don’t have any either, and it makes for a happy life!
Imagine
There you go. I like that.
Hi Jack – Good luck, I hope that it all works out for you and your wife! Happiness in life is the number 1 consideration!
Hi Jack – Thank god I’m not the only one who thinks the way I do, its not always about money.
Regards.
Jim.
Hi Bob,
Well stated. In any investment, beside rate of return, risk and liquidity are factors.
Buying desirable land, and using quality materials to build a house the size you need is going to cost PhP 10 million. To realize any kind of decent return on your investment when the kids are gone, you’d have to sell it for at least PhP14 million. The fact is, the pool of available buyers willing and able at the time is going to be very small. And most of them, would rather build the dream home of their dreams, not your design.
And at that future date, without strict zoning laws and enforcement, it could very well be that your once desirable location isn’t so desirable anymore. Building today, to suit your temporary needs, could be the very thing to prevent you from building your true dream home if you’re unable to sell it.
And I know this doesn’t apply to you and Feyma, (or me, if you’re reading this,Yam, honey) but we all know of men married to Pinays who’ve sunk their life’s savings into real estate who suddenly find themselves dumped from the relationship in a country which forbids non Philippines citizens from owning land. That adds to the risk part of the equation.
There are so many splendid investment opportunities in the Philippines, that for me, building a home is like buying a luxury car. It satisfies an itch but I won’t depend on it as an investment. Either build a home you don’t plan on selling, or build one you can easily sell.
Hi Rex – Generally, rent to own plans generally are not much in favor of the buyer. However, I am not really familiar with what is being offered by these condos, so it may or may not be a good deal. I’d study it carefully, though. You are right, foreigners can purchase condos, but only up to a maximum of 40% of the condos in the entire unit.
Good luck, I hope it works out well for you.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Dan, interesting thoughts. Personally, I think that the Philippine Government is pretty stable these days, but it’s always good to consider all of the possibilities.
Hi fred – We have a number of places in mind where we may move in the more distant future. Mostly we are thinking of somewhere in Sarangani Province. We are not really interested in Cebu or Manila (especially Manila).
Hi Anthony – I saw that commercial about a week ago… I can’t remember for sure where I saw it, but I am thinking it was on CNN, some show showed it for one reason or another. It is a good commercial, though, and it is also how I live my life. Thanks for sharing that.
Hi Paul – I guess that the good thing about having a pig or chicken farm next door is the free meat! 😆
Hi Dan – I’m glad you enjoyed the article. One thing about the Philippines – there really are not covenants and such in most places here, I guess only in the higher end gated communities.
Some thoughts:
1. Buy property ONLY if you are a citizen of that country. If you are deported, you will be forced to leave the property behind. If I were a foreigner, I would not buy property in the Philippines because the Philippine Constitution prohibits foreign ownership of real estate. As a dual citizen, I also would not buy property in some states in the US, where property taxes can be confiscatory. However, it is advantageous to own property in the US if one must travel there with some regularity for business. The US State Department will not deny a visa to anyone who owns property in the US.
2. Buy a condo ONLY if security is important. Condos are difficult to sell and expensive to maintain. And like my father used to say when he was alive, you’re buying ‘air’. But if you have a job that requires you to travel, then by all means buy a condo.
3. Renting is always the best way to go unless you have children. Land is the best ‘store of value’. The property granted by the King of Spain to my great-great-great grandfather is still feeding sixth generation descendants. Talk about investment returns!
I don’t have any regrets at all, Miss August. Wouldn’t change a thing.
Maayong Buntag Bob
Good article!
When I first started looking into moving to the RP I looked into houses for sale. I started to notice that many of these houses were on the market for years and others were drastically reducing prices in an attempt to dump there home. I did not understand why until I realized how most kano houses are priced out of the pinoy’s price rang. Then there was this article I read a while back about a kano and his pinoy wife who saved there money to build there dream home by her parents in the RP. The wife’s parents lived in a small village and the kano house ended up being the attraction of the village since the house was so much better than anyone else’s in the village. Since they lived in such a nice house everyone in the village thought they had plenty of money and they were hounded continuously for money. They finally moved out of the village and rented a small house in a city unable to sell the house they had built.
Hi Bob,
Nice article. I agree wholeheartedly with you on this for the Philippines. The normal economic sense, in most western couontries, in buying property via a mortgage with a view to profiting long term is, of course, quite right. In the Philippines, however, the two things you point out reverse the concept, namely the extreme lack of certainty of being able to sell when and if you want, and the relative low rent.
Of course, there are other factors to consider for some. If you are living on a pension, for example, and may expect not ever to move again, building can be much cheaper than buying pre-built, and the prospect of not having to pay rent when you are 97 and can’t remember your own name may be quite appealing. But each has to consider their own situation.
I hope your article encourages some people to actually sit down with pencil and paper and do some calculations themselves, rather than making brash assumptions.
If I may say so, this is one of the best articles you have done on LIP to date!
Jim
Bob..Great post and all I can say it that it depends on each person or couple and the circumstances that are in their life, if buying or renting is a good thing. I think a lot here in the USA are thinking or wishing that they would have never signed on that bottom line on buying a place…So many are up side down and owe way more than it worth and many are losing their house and finding their selves in the rent position again with a bad credit rating to boot. Here in the USA a good credit rating is a god send, with out it you pay more for your car insurance..even hard to find a place to rent and etc.I think some times a lot of people do not sit down and do the math booth ways like you did…or take and look at their lives in the short term and then try to project the long term down the road and then decide what is the best way to go……as far as buying a house for a good investment..not sure I think that is such a wonderfull way to go…Your example is a lot better way to go in my mind and also for me…..
I stand corrected, I thought everyone had a little bit of “Otang” at the local sarisari.
Great article! Thabnk you for taking the time to clearly explain the pros and cons of renting. I totally agree with your reasoning. In a country where zoning is virtually nonexistent one should really think twice about investing a substantial sum of money in a home. The comparatively low rental rates are also an important factor.
Hi Paul – I agree with you fully! What I meant was that there is no compelling reason to buy, nor is there a compelling reason not to! We are both right, and we are both winners since we are both doing what is right for us! No problems from me about that!
Paul Thompson
Thats exactly what i’ll be doing when i retire there, pay cash for a house rather than rent. I will also be on a pension and may not be able to afford rent increases at least until i start receiving social security if it is still around. Also want to make sure i have enough money to keep the frig filled with cold ones hahaha. Good point for buying. It’s just whats best for you. No wrong answer.
Well you also have to look at that Bob is making a decision based upon today’s climate and not the one 10 years ago. Prices on real estate went through the roof in the last decade almost everywhere, and now have come down. Even in the US, the debate is whether it makes sense to own a house anymore. Given the very high rate of foreclosures in the US, and the huge number of people in underwater on their homes in the US, a home can no longer be viewed as an investment (I went through the real estate bust in Texas in the 80s, and my home still hasn’t recovered its value, after adjusting for inflation).
And as Bob states, if you build you high-end home along expat tastes, who is going to buy it? A $1,000 month salary puts you in the top 10% of wage earners in the Philippines — and they mostly live in Manila and Cebu, locals just can’t buy, even if they liked the home. And there is nothing to indicate that there will be a rising middle class in the Philippines any time soon. And don’t expect a huge wave of expats coming to the Philippines in the coming years — sure there will be many, but they will more be the ones living on Social Security, which won’t let you buy a $500,000 house here.
So buy if it makes you feel better to own you own home, but be very careful trying to rationalize it as an investment.
Well..Bob that is great on most places no covenants…that way you can pretty well do as you like…and hopefully they will not come up with all the zoning regulations there that they have in most places here in the USA…From what I have read I do not think most of the Fillipino people would like zoning..of course they might all ready have some of that like in Manilia and such, but do not know…
Hi Paul – I don’t consider the ROI argument to be a strawman argument. It’s a real financial measure of which choice makes the most economic sense.
I, like most, don’t have a pile of cash sitting here that I am debating over – “rent or buy”. I don’t have the P20M that it would take to build the kind of house I need today. Could I build a more modest house, maybe P7 or P8M? Yes, I could. I still don’t have the cash sitting in a pile, but I have assets that I could turn into cash if I wanted to.
Talking about your creative financing (something which you wrote about a year ago or so, as I recall)… if somebody came to me and said, “Bob, here is P10M for you to build a house, pay me back P30k each month instead of paying rent… no interest.” I probably still would not build a house today. I would love such an option for a time in the future when I am prepared to own a house, but that is not where I am in my life right now. I know that I am very likely in a temporary location right now. 6 or 7 years down the road… I’ll likely be looking at options that are much different than present themselves to me right now.
You make some good point, though, Paul, and something for people to consider when making a decision.
Hi Paul – Is that “ceative financing” or “creative accountancy”, on second thoughts I may have been reading the wrong book ha!ha!ha!
Regards.
Jim.
Hi Karl – Yeah, it’s just a personal choice, and a matter of timing for me. Right now, the time is not right. Later on the right time might come along for me to own a house here! 🙂
Randy;
As long as a person arrives here with a well thought out plan, if they rent, buy, or build, I’ll parrot your statement “No wrong answer.”
Very good article bob, You covered my thinking in this article completely.i agree with you 100% I have nothing to add….but to each their own
Bravo Bob…you missed your calling…should have been a real estate investor ! As you may recall thats what I have been doing soley for income for the last 24 years (income properties) your rational for renting v/s buying are dead on target…its all about ROI (return on investment) and from what I’ve seen renting is much much better than buying for most, Paul T. case is would be the exception (smart move Paul !). I think Thomad Gil fails to understand RP real estate values. Hope to be lookin for my own rental in Cebu this spring !
Hi Kevin – Thanks for your input! Your points are very well stated. Frankly, I could not agree more!
Ha ha… thanks Neal. Not only relatively debt free… we are completely debt free! It’s a good feeling, and one of the nicest things about living here in the Philippines.
I agree with you Bob. I have been living in Canada for almost 20 years now and I have no motivation to buy a house either. Renting is not necessarily bad even in western countries. I save more by just renting and life is simpler. I dont want my life to revolve around the house. A lot of people in western countries who own a house have to take double or triple jobs for their mortgage, property taxes, utilities, etc. I dont want that unnecessary stress. The collapse of property market in the US, almost wiped out the owner’s equity. Their losses are far more worst than people who are just renting.
Oh the ironies of life! 😀
Hi Brent – Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Yes, renting is right for me at this time. I may own a house at some later date, but right now is not the right time for me. I am fine with that!
Hey, I’d be happy to meet you when you are here, just give me a shout!
Hi Boss – Problem is, my right hand column would be 3 miles long! I could list all the articles about renting, then people would say, “can you list all the articles about speaking bisaya” next “can you list all the articles about riding jeepneys” soon, the column would be a mess! 😆
Hi Larry – You might be surprised at just how common that story is among foreigners here in the Philippines. I have seen it happen so many times that I don’t even raise an eyebrow anymore! Good comment, Larry.
Ha ha… cash only here! 😆 Sometimes my kids spend money that they don’t have at the sari-sari, though… and I have to foot the bill when the day or reckoning comes! 😯
That could be a good example of maybe where a little nipa hut would have been the best way to go and then the rest of the people in the villiage would think you was a poor Fillipina married to a down and out poor Kano man…and since they would think you was so poor and such, they not bother you so much and you could be able to take a nap in the hamock and enjoy the breeze blowing thru the coconut trees….
Hi Bill – Thanks for sharing your view.
Hi Dan – Remember, though… no covenants on you also means that there are no covenants on the neighbors either! If they decide to open up a pig farm next door to you, there is nothing you can do! 😆
Dan, May 2010 I purchased our home in Dinalupihan, Bataan. It’s 300 sq mtr floor space, 4 bedroom, 3 bath one-story home on a 900 sq mtr lot. See pics on my facebook page.
I only paid P2.6 million for it. Yes, that came to roughly $57k.
Pita is the Baragngay in Dinalupihan, where we live. Lots of vacant lots for sale in this area, P500k to P700k range for anywhere from 450 to 900 sq mtr lots.
Fortunately, my wife’s family is only 15 minutes away in Barangay Luacan. Neighbors are great here, downside is wala Internet and wala landline. Gotta stand outside to cellphone reception.
I’ve seen mansions, and I mean mansions for sale for 12-2o million peso’s here in Bataan.
I wholeheartedly agree, Bob. Even looking at the very big picture in N. America, ROI on real estate averages 7% per annum, compared to 8% for a conservative portfolio and 10% for an equity portfolio. More importantly, the cycle of real estate prices is much longer that that of the general economy, making liquidity even lower in Real Estate. Like you, I’d rather have the cash!
I have also experienced peer pressure to buy over the years, and to me it seems that the belief that Real Estate is the best investment available is like a religion to some.
In terms of the Philippines specifically, I think you make some very important points. IF one was to live exactly as the middle class Filipinos live, which is what I intend to do in the long run, then there may be some advantage in owning, but again, it is such a huge commitment in so many ways, that I, like you, would have to be certain of staying in that one place for many years before I would even consider it. Buying a house in Phils is not a step I would take lightly, even when buying a small house.
As a footnote, I believe that the cult of Real Estate as the Ultimate Investment is founded on two things; people who have been lucky enough to profit from a property price boom mostly by accident (they did not appreciate how leveraged they were, in most cases) and others who have made a successful living by careful purchases and sales of property, with only profit in mind and little consideration of other lifestyle factors.
Thanks for your candidness.
Dave
C T – If you just click on Mike’s name, it goes right to his FB page.
The prevailing idea that you never lose money in real estate is a myth. I’ve built two houses in the Philippines and lost money both times when I sold them. Now I’m renting. I did the cost the projections for the two options. Over 20 years I save $70,000 by renting at my current rate factoring regular rent increases.
Hello Grace – Well, deciding where to move is a tough one, everybody’s taste is different. I would recommend that you come visit the country, travel around a bit and use your experiences to make the final decision. I love Davao City, and also Cebu.
Hi Bob – Consider the following but before doing so please remember, I have owned my own property for almost 40 years to date. The Philippine house was the first one I ever build from scratch whilst out of the other five I owned three were bought as seen and two I chose the design. One thing we have never done is bought a house that we would have struggled to make the mortgage payments on we have always lived within our means and the price you mentioned ($476,000.00) would not be for us I’m afraid.
Also to achieve your financial calculation one would actually have to have $476,000.00 in real terms in the bank. I would imagine I maybe wrong, that not many of the readers here have that kind of money in cash.
So …..I buy a lot and build a house to our particular design and purpose within our budget.
I stay in that house for six years and the rent I would have paid to a Landlord has paid for the entire project. For every year I now live in the house I do so free of charge with the exception of general maintenance which we budget at 15,000.00 pesos per annum which also covers repainting of the property every 5 years inside and out.
Where did I go wrong? If I had put my money in a UK bank £21,000.00 at an average of 3% per annum net in 5 years compounded I would have ended up with £23,638.775 less the original £21,000.00 total made on investment £2,638.775.
If I calculate the original cost of the house in 2005 £21,000.00 (2,268,000.00 pesos) @ 108 to the £ and paid rent of say 30,000.00 pesos per month (360,000.00 annum) at an average of 80pesos to the £ it would cost me £4,500.00 per annum to rent my property. Bearing in mind I’m only getting £630.00 per annum in interest on my original investment I’m £3,870.00 down in the first year if I continue at this rate and my rent doesn’t increase meanwhile for the five year period it will cost me £22,500.00 in rent to a Landlord. In five years I am now £1,500.00 out of pocket. Each subsequent year assuming the rent only increases 10% on the total 5 year lease it will cost me a further 1,980,000 pesos or £24,750.00 in rent.
What we would have paid in rent goes a long way to making life comfortable in our
retirement bearing in mind we live on a pension. Buying a property where ever you may be is a longer term investment. You or your spouse may never benefit from the investment in cash monitory terms but your offspring might. Bearing in mind that since your offspring never paid for the property initially what they get is profit to them. Once the property is paid for it frees up the cash you would have otherwise paid in loans then that’s when you benefit, if you did not have the money initially to build or purchase the property. What is also important to me at least is my wife will have a roof of her own over her head should anything happen to me and if I had school age children it would be even more important in my opinion.
Even if one requires a house with lots of rooms one can always build a house suitable for the immediate family and in the back garden further accommodation for staff consisting of a rectangular building with individual rooms a communal kitchen and toilet with its own private access. Building a smaller house with external additional accommodation is much more feasible than building a huge house with limited future selling potential and high maintenance costs.
Of course one could on the other hand build a mansion if one had the means which meets the current requirements of ones present family, and as time passes and the family dwindles one is left with something that is difficult to manage as one becomes older and less able. The moral of the story is to build with not only the present in mind but also the future that way you are more likely to maximise your initial investment. In order to do anything in life you require two things the will and the means and one unfortunately without the other is of no good. Since this subject has arisen, I wonder how many Filipino families pay 40,000.00 pesos per month to rent a property. Either way one needs a roof over ones head one way or another. For me I prefer to have my own property and land than give my money for someone else to benefit. I would like to finally add that land is the most valuable commodity in the Philippines and if some one likes the house that stands on it, then that’s a bonus. All houses and lots where ever they maybe on the planet are only worth what someone is prepared to pay for them despite what the realtor or the market analysts might say.
Everyone’s circumstances are different and the above example suited ours.
I rest my case M’ Lord and may time be the judge.
Good points all.
My thought before moving here was to build a home of my own, but after sitting back and looking at all the negatives I came to the quick conclusion that doing so was not right for me. If I was in Paul’s situation I would have done the same thing. Paul didn’t do it as an investment, and I think that is where some go wrong here.
My rent…. elect,,,water,,,,internet,,,,,cable…..runs under 20,000p a month, which leaves money to be left alone to earn interest far more than any real estate would earn.
The rent here is so cheap it just doesn’t make sense to me to buy at my OLD age.
Too each his own I always say, but in my situation I am in total agreement with Bob and a few others .
Hi Tom – Thanks for your input. I don’t think you can really go wrong by renting. For me, the time may come when I decide to own my home, but for now, renting is the right thing in my book.
Jim 97?
I’ll see you there, neither of us will remember why we’re there, but as we drool into our cold beers we’ll raise a bottle, and I hope to remember to drink it.
Bob: Reading this, I can’t help but think back to the times when I was living in the States that I was called an idiot fot not buying. Over the last 20 years, I nearly jumped in several times and bought. I have not regretted the decisions not to buy once. It is interesting how nearly all that criticized me ended up taking a bath when property collapsed.
You mentioned in the comments about building a house and the costs associated with building. Rebecca was an OFW when we met. In Western terms, building a house may have been “cheap” at one time. That is no longer the case. The costs of materials have soared in recent years. To illustrate, last year we finished an addition to the house in Abulug (We added a room to the 2nd floor, tiled a portion of the kitchen, and made a covered granary in the “basement”). The costs to do this were guessed by Becky’s brother to be around 70,000. We ended up paying nearly 200,000. In just two years the costs of materials nearly doubled, and with the expenses related to permits and running behind…
Note, this was not a case of “Kano” pricing. I was 100% not involved. In many cases, people get this “cheap” idea in their heads, comparing construction costs to the States. This isn’t the States, and building to standards comparable to the States can be just as expensive, or even more expensive, when attempted here. Several months ago you mentioned just such a case of an American, I think, in Cebu who documented his trials on the net. If I remember correctly, he ended up with his “US style” house, but it was something like 4X the cost and time to get it done.
Bob as you stated there is no right or wrong on this topic. Interestingly home ownership in the U.S has not been a good thing over the past few years. I should state not a good thing if you needed to move or had a financial set back. There have been a lot of articles and debate about buying vs renting. I rent right now and my reasons are basically your reasons. Where I am is not where I am going to stay and I would rather be flexible in that decision. To each his own or to each his rent. Enjoy your new house. Marlou will be there in Feb. I was coming but too expensive for three of us. She will come with Izzy and her sister. Keep it up. Ron
That’s simply a no-brainer to me. I’ve moved around a lot the past years (5 cities/3 countries in 7 years) and have even purchased property along the way (a 3 BR house & a 1.5 BR condo) and I’ve come to the conclusion that renting is the way to go.
Of course, this idea doesn’t apply to everyone since we all have unique situations, but with the preferences you’ve mentioned, you buying a property will just get you stuck.
For me, I’m sticking to renting now and in the foreseeable future. I like to keep my options open and save a ton of money while at it.
*Oops, I meant 4 BR house (not 3 BR). Hate to shortchange myself considering the grief (and bad back from landscaping) that I put into that house :p
That was a very thoughtful article, Bob. I’m really glad you wrote it.
Thanks franklin! It’s always good to know when you are making sense! 😆
here is our home 45 mins south of manila via south luzon expressway to laguna
the design is based on our southern california lifestyle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zJW6Wg23X4
it is in 8 different parts
so if you want to see more click on the more videos section
everyone has different backgrounds, present, and future needs
the moral of the story wether to rent or own is up to the individual’s wants and needs with no right or wrong answer since it is them that have to live with the decision
you may recognize the home when it was used for a local teleserya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5x-OHcuPN8
buying, building, and living in the philippines is like a roller coaster
it is a wonderful thrill ride but not for those with weak constitutions
Hi brian – actually, when I wrote the article, I was thinking of you and what you would say about it. With you making your living through real estate investment… well… your opinion is meaningful! Thanks for backing me up.
Thanks, Jason. I’m glad you found my article useful.
Hi Eric – Without a doubt, wherever you may find yourself, there is nothing wrong with renting provided you get the right deal!
Facebook page? I searched, there was no return for, “pita mike”. It would help if you gave an URL.
Thanks,
CT Dunn
Lubbock, TX, USA
Hi Eric,
I think you are right in saying that renting can be a sensible option in Western countries too; in Germany, for example, home ownership used to be relatively low, and they had excellent mobility of labour because people were not tied to their homes.
As far as property values are concerned, most of our current woes are due to foolish people being lured into property ownership in the hope of short term gains, and consequently causing massive (false) increases in valuation via supply and demand. (Pretty much the same as the guy who can’t keep out of the gambling shop, when you think about it)! If people would calm down and listen to Grandpa, he’ll tell you that property is a long term investment. They always have gone up historically, but you have to look at a 25 year cycle, not 25 months that the greedy and unwise have been doing in recent years.
Hi David – Thanks for your input. Yes, rental rates here are very low, and must be factored into a decision if the choice is to be made based on monetary reasons. There are other factors, and comfort and peace of mind are very important. For me, the monetary side, and the peace of mind both led me in the same direction!
When I rented my first place years ago my Dad gave me a very simple lesson. He asked me how much I was paying then had me hand over the monthly $225. Taking the money from me he let it fall to the floor and said “this is owning”. He then picked up the same money and dropping it out the window he said “renting”. Thank goodness we were on the ground floor and it wasn’t a windy day!
Hi Jim H – How true a saying, well said.
Regards.
Jim.
Living like a snail has it’s benefits. I take my home with me most places. If I don’t like the neighborhood I just move it……lololol…..i2f
Sound advice as always from the voice of experience…
My true story: I own a home in the U.S. that I could not sell for what I owe. My wife and I would like to sell it in 5-6 years after our youngest graduates high school. If we are exceedingly lucky, we might be able to get what we owe, but are certainly not going to make any money on it. And, no, we did not buy at the top of the market. We paid a very reasonable, at the time, amount.
This is a reality in a number of places now in the U.S.
Hi Kevin – I think that (in my opinion) only one thing Jim said was not really correct. He did talk about paying 30k rent and such… but the house that he built for P2.5M or so, especially in the location where it is would not demand that kind of money, so that throws the argument off a bit, IMHO of course.
Hi Kevin – When I mentioned building a quarters in the back garden I meant just that, so those living there have their own privacy as does the family in the main house.
I took that idea from my experiance in Nigeria when we had lots of staff living on our compound.
With our present back garden I could easily build external accommodation as we have the space to do so.
regards.
Jim.
I m going to live in philippines for the warm weather. At first , I plan to buy a house , but now I think that I should reconsider the plan after I read the article. rent may be a better way for live in philippines freely.
Hi Bob – Since there are no houses of my type for rent in my town I had to use an example but just down the road from us 20mins houses are renting for 40K per month near the airport outside of CdeO.
Regards.
Jim.
Hi Bob
First post to your site , although i have been reading the comments for some time. My wife and i own a house in Davao, at the time of purchase i wasn’t bothered either way if i owned or rented , as u say each to their own. What swung it for me to buy is when my wife and i inspected our current place and to see her eyes light up on inspection and say to me “oh hubby its what i have always dreamed of”….so i said i guess we buy then, lol(might i add its only mid range price range )….I dont mean to be disrespectful in any way as i have read all the posts so far but im just wondering if any of you guys that are renting have considered what your wife would like .
Hi Jim – I understand. But, the thing is… those houses in Xavier cost a lot more than 2.5 or 3 million pesos. So, the rental price would be much higher too.
Hi Macky – for me, and it seems for you, in our life situations at the moment, it is simply a no-brainer. I was kind of shocked the other day when I posted that we had found a suitable place to move to and several people were kind of hounding me that I had done the wrong thing…. well, for me I did the right thing! 😆
Thanks Dave. One thing you said that is very important is when you said that you would want to live somewhere long enough to be sure that it is the place you want to stay. That is important to me as well, and I have been in Davao long enough to know that it probably is not permanent for me. So, renting makes a lot of sense for now.
Dear Sir,
Having read your article about renting vs buying was very interesting, thank you.
As you mentioned there is no right answer here, only what suits one self at that time or future.
I have moved quite a few times, having rented and bought housing was what was suitable at that time when and where we lived. I rented in Rhodesia, rented and then bought a house in South Africa, now living in the Netherlands and I am renting.
As you mentioned in your article you may not want to live in Davao in the future due to all your reasons you mentioned and I can understand you view point on all you mentioned.
We could have bought our house that we are renting, but when we looked into it the pro and cons and with the so called economic situation as they call it, We decided not to, and I am glad as I am not sure if we will end up on staying here.
Our family have all grown up, and where ever they may go in the future is also a deciding factor as to see if we stay.
We have also thought about moving to the Philippines and your article has given me much to think about.
One question though, which areas do you consider good in the Philipines?
Thanks for the article, I wish you and your family the very best.
Kind Regards,
Mrs G. Lee.
Hi Macky – Of course its a no brainer for you living like a Gypsie, you’d be better with a Motorhome.
Regards.
Jim.
That’s what I like, Phil! You are always thinking! The grandkids might put off plans, I guess! 😆
Good thought, dans.
Thanks, Dave.
Certainly pays to do your homework when you come to the Philippines. Every one has unique circumstances and without a doubt I feel it is crucial if not mandatory that you rent for a couple of years before making any decision to buy or build a home in any location. The quality of your neighbours can make or break your life here, as I discovered three times. Luckily I have no problem with neighbours now but the pollution levels visual, air and land may force me to look elsewhere to live. If I was locked into a house that freedom of choice would now not be possible.
Also a very important point, have a plan B for your own security. Before I left the Philippines a couple of weeks ago, two foreigner mates of mine are now separating after long term marriages, the houses they have built are virtually unsaleable ( to the relief of the separating foreigners ). As both men are in their 60’s they found out there are no rules in love and war, the women want the lot. So keep some funds in reserve for yourself, that would be a wise investment for the next relationship.
If you have partnered a young pinay and you decide to buy a house, mortgage the land to your wife, take out a rock solid 25 year lease out on the house with a 25 year option and that will give you some security if you get turfed out of your relationship.
Spot on, Paul!
Yes Mate…I only said that as its my opinion that owning a house is more importent to a woman then a bloke(generally speaking)…Ihave noticed with my wife how much more house proud she is now she has her own home, compared to when we were renting places. She loves her home(more then me i think)haha…but im happy if she is happy. Being an aussie i couldn’t care less so long as the fridge can hold a few tinnies and the tv works then any house would be ok with me….but for my wife the kitchen is the key.
Hi BOb!how are you?your publishing articles live in the Philippines !!!I fined very interesting!its make me awake the situation there in Philippines are not very easy or simple!I fell like I read the NEWS about PHIlippines what is the real life there!!thanks BOB!!
Thank you Baya. I am happy that you have enjoyed my site!
Hi Ron – I’m sorry to hear that I’ll be missing you in Feb! Hope to catch you next time, though!
Good analysis Bob.
Even if the numbers were in favor of buying, you have plenty of other hard to quantify reasons for renting.
What I’m curious about is what is different about housing economics there vs the US that results in this sort of upside down situation. As you know, in the US, the rental value of a property tends to drive the selling price to a large degree. So, why are people there willing to pay such high multiples of the rental value when they buy? I suspect it has something to do with interest rates and what investors can expect from alternatives to owning rental property, but I’m surprised the differences with the US are SO different.
I like what I’ve seen and heard so far of your new home, and I hope all goes well there for you.
–James
Bob – For goodness sake thats a joke.
Regards.
Jim.
Hi Bob,
This is my first time to leave a comment. I like your articles, you give good information and very honest opinion. I agree with you about renting. Next year, my husband and I will be renting a 4 bedroom house in Tagaytay city for 2 months.It’s fully furnished 2 storey with a million dollar view of Taal volcano the rent is 30,ooo Pesos a month. I finally convinced him to spend some time in the Philippines and get to know my birthplace. I met him here in Australia and we’ve been married for 16 years, and I have been living here for almost 3 decades. He used to say, he doesn’t like the Philippines ( I laughed at his opinion and said, ” how can you not like the Philippines you haven’t seen much of the country and experience to spend time there?” and it shuts him up with my answer.
This last winter, He really felt the harsh Victorian country winter (we live just below the ski field ) he is 69 years old with health problems , he finally agreed to stay in the Philippines and get away from the winter season. At this point in time, it is a good idea for us to rent because he doesn’t want to live full time in the Philippines. Also I want him to get used to the idea, that the day will come that I will need help from a private nurse to look after him. After all, in 10 years time, I will be 54 and he will be 79.
I told him about your Dentist, that did a good job on your friend’s dental work, we might see you next year. It is a big step for him. Keep up the good work, best regards to you, Feyma and the kids.
without a doubt, mark… everybody gets to choose what is best for them! I hope your place works out well for you!
Hi Tom – It would be interesting for the readers to know how you lost money on your properies? Was it on the cost of the build or the cost of the land?I’m also personally interested in how you save $70,000.00 over 20 years.
Regards.
Jim.
Hi Kevin – I hope you enjoy your life in the warm weather! I know that I do!
When I return, I’ll rent. I may build a small house in the mountains by my In-Laws and a small home on our ocean property but I’ll probably rent in the city until I know for sure where I want to live.
I think that’s a wise move, Craig! You can always buy or build when you are ready!
Hi Bob – I was only pointing out my side of the story as it would have been difficult for us having been married 28 years to sell up our home in the UK to come to the Philippines to retire only to rent. At my time in life I would not wish to be at the mercy of a Landlord from lease period to lease period. And worse still having to move if we failed to agree terms every time the lease expired. At my age I just want a stress free life and having our own property where we are located gives us just that. And as another reader mentioned the Asawa is happy and that means a lot to me.
Regards.
Jim.
Hi bob after reading your article i beleive that you are in the right way of thinking for this stage in your life ,as you have said before that you will no doubt move to the island when your youngest leaves school ,so why buy ? this would be a rather silly thing to do when your plans are really not as they say set in concrete and the disruption to your life frm those horrid neighbours is anpother reason why you are lucky to be renting ,i dont think that if you lived in a gated comunity as the ones springing up al over the place there there would be much chance of a metal shop or pig farm sudenly opening up but as you say in davao in the normal suburbs it could happen mywife has warned me of the all night kareoke machines where neighbours dont care if they keep you awake ,still i dont live there so i am only going on her word ,when i stayed in lanang it was very peacefull until we got in the taxi and thenm the adrenalin rush was on until we got to where we were going as the traffic was bad when i was there if it is worse now 3 years later then it must be cronic i see that a new development is opening on the islandup from babak to the north looks very nice but will be very expensive private beach all the facilities yarda yarda yarda i might just build a huge nippa hut on our bock and saystuff the rest of the world and wear shorts and thongs all day and drink lots of beer and then i woke up hahahaha anyway weather you rent or buy it is up to your own circumstances each has its merits
chris
Thank you Bob, Looking forward to see you and Feyma. Got to try that Durian you love so much. Believe it or not I never had it.
Off topic here, I need to know how to put my photo, excuse my ignorance I’m not a computer literate. Thanks mate…..
Bob, good article – food for thought. We have built for our own reasons but beside the pros and cons for both, I have had 20 years traveling and it’s nice to have a home,even if I still work away from home. I’m not sure with the exchange rate, poor US economy that any choice we make can be the right one, in the long run. If you can get good interest rates maybe you’re choice is the best.Where do you think you will finally settle ? Have you an idea why If houses are not selling in Davao the cost seem so high?
Hi Tom – I wish you the best on getting your money back out of the house! Hopefully the US economy will turn around and you will be sitting a little better when you are ready to sell.
Yea, I feel the same, Craig. When you move to a new country it takes time to get to know your way around and it’s always good to have family nearby to help. But most important of all is being sure of the location you will be happy in for the long term.
It’s not something that I worry about on a day-to-day basis because I do not plan to move now, so I keep making my mortgage payment.
The argument that you should always buy a house depends on so many, many factors and some of those factors are less true than they once were. At least in my part of the world.
Hi Bob! read your article..I may too agree about your thoughts and choice. Its not really a matter of choice but its a matter of timing and reality at the present. Great article!!!
Hi bob,
Rent vs buying? – it all depends on one’s financial matter, for those who will retire and will heavily depend on their pension as their only source of income, buying a house is more viable for them than renting, for those who have a continuous income flow just like you, renting is more appropriate as it gives you flexibility to move around whenever you want.
Hi D.L.Smith! Welcome aboard, happy to have you on board as a commenter! Of course, what the wife wants is important! Both she and I agree that right now, we need to rent. In 6 or 7 years when we are ready to settle down in a permanent location, buying will be a priority for us! For me, Feyma is as much a part of the decision as I am!
Hi Greg – You are so right… we each have to do what is right for us. I’m glad you found a plan that works for you!
BTW: I did forget to add that my above comment was posted in jest, somewhat. (lol)
Hi Paul – I had to laugh at you comment just think if I manage to reach the ripe old age of 97 how many cold SM’s I will be able to drink with the rent money I have saved in that time period.
Regards.
Jim.
Paul Thompson
Well said brother, Well said.
Greg;
Two years ago my brother from Boston asked me how much value my house had lost, compared to him during the downturn? You hit square on my point that I made to him, my house was built to live in, never as an investment, so I lost nothing in value as it will never be on the market, as long as I can hold a cold beer in my hand.
Bob and others have found the way that suits their life to a tee, and that makes them right in their decision, Which ever way a person decides, it’s the correct way for them, and no one could possibly be wrong. It all boils down to, my dad could beat up his dad, if we weren’t brothers. It’s a moot point!
Hi James – Thanks! I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. To be honest, I really can’t figure out why people would buy here, given that rents are so cheap. I guess the other thing I can’t figure out is why people would rent out their houses at such bargain basement prices. I suppose one thing that I think about it, although this is pure speculation, is that purchase prices are blown way out of proportion here compared to what I think they should be. But, like I say, I don’t have any way of proving that it is only me thinking out loud.
From a purely economic standpoint, I think that renting is the way to go here. But, there are lots of non-financial reasons that creep in too.
Excellent article Bob – shows what is best in Europe or USA is not always the best in the Philippines.We own a house in Las Pinas but this is a convenience as we do not spend as much time in the Philippines as before and renting long distance is not a good idea -we need a place available at any time and we also have a young child -kind of adopted – his father gave him to us 8 years ago. We have no paperwork for him so cannot bring him to Scotland.
The gentleman who referred to you as stupid seems to be prone to insulting people who do not fit in with his ideas – in at least one other thread he did much the same thing to a ladies husband. It would be better if he spent a little time considering other peoples points of view before making insulting statements.
Hi DL and Bob,
Owning a home is something that my asawa and I have discussed. I value her input on the subject. She has a dream about a simple and eloquent home. I hope that we can make it come true someday. I also agree with Paul T with his legacy statement and knowing that my wife would have a home if something happen to me.
That’s true, Boss. Philippine law does not recognize a lease between a husband and wife.
Hi Susan – No problem! We’ll look forward to a durian feast!
To get your pictures on with your post, you need to go to Gravatar and sign up there. Once you do that, your picture will show up here and on many other websites too where you comment.
Jim….
I wouldn’t say it was a North American trait….Before moving here I was a home owner all my adult life….I truly think buying here is a totally different animal all together than the states. Perhaps later I will decide to buy or build, but right now the time doesn’t seem right to make that decision.
Bob – I was refering to the legacy statement Jack refered to vis a viz Paul T.
Regards.
Jim.
Whatever you end up choosing, Jimmy… good luck to you, and I hope that your life in the Philippines turns out as good as what you are hoping for!
Hi Jocelyn – Thanks for your comment… I appreciate it!
The average Australian cannot afford to buy a house anymore so they choose to rent first and save some money and put the saving on term deposit and earn from it for the future to buy a house. On Tuesday interest rate has gone up by.45% we are not happy about it and rest of Australia who has a mortgage to pay.
My husband and I have a rental property in Melbourne. I suggested, we should use the equity from the rental property to borrow and buy another property we can rent out so we have another income when it’s time for us to live in the Philippines and take care our expenses. His answer was, you should do it when I’m gone. My answer: darling, I am talking about now whilst you are still around and enjoy the good life, because you won’t be able to enjoy it when you’re dead and buried. The mind boggles…..
Hi Jim – I listed a number of reasons in my article about why I am not currently prepared to buy. Only one was about money.
Hi Rich – When we lived in the States, we also owned our home free and clear, no mortgage to hassle with! It is certainly a great feeling to be in that position. But, here in the Philippines, I do like the freedom to be able to move around as I want to, and not tied down to a property that I may not be able to sell.
Hi Susan – The old adage comes to mind. You cannot take it with you when you go so you may as well enjoy it whilst your here.
My wife reminds me of that constantly bless her.
Regards.
Jim.
Yeah, I understand what you were referring to. I was referring to what you said, and tying it in with my article.
Sounds like a reasonable idea, kevin!
The best advice I ever heard was to live in a Pension House/hotel for a month while you are deciding where to rent. Rent for at least a year before you settle on a location to either buy or build, if that is your intent.
That said, I’ve lived here/rented for 14 years. It started with the two of us, then three, then four, five, six, and now seven of us. What size house should I have bought on the way up??
Over the next several years, we will be downsizing. Seven, six, five, four, three, and finally two again. How big a house will we need on the way down???
I dont normally chime in, BUT, I agree with Bob’s assessment regarding the ration of Buying Price versus Rental. One more important point is that in the Philippines, there is no 15/20/25/30 year mortgages like the USA, which means you pay the total price.
If you have that kind of money and just even 3% interest on a CD/Time Deposit gives you $1,190 per month – already more than the rent – PLUS your principal is intact. Just from a financial point – rental makes more sense for an expat.
As a backgrounder, I am chinese born in the Philippines and living in the USA.
Hi Boss,
With respect,and it is a confusing issue,leasing off your wife is illegal.
Even if you lease off a gf,once you marry,that lease becomes void.
Foreigners have very few rights in PH,a safer bet,invest only what you can afford to walk away from.
regards,Chas.
I enjoyed reading this article and comments,Bob. It stimulates the thought process and gives the pros and cons of home ownership in the Philippines,in a non biased way.
We purchased some land or should I say I purchased some land and my wife owns it, in Bohol last year. We will have to erect some sort of structure on the land..either temporary(nipa,etc) or permanent(concrete,etc). This will have to be done so that someone lives on the land or others will use it for their own purposes.
We will be going to Bohol in December and staying for about 6 months. I hope to grow some vegetable crops during that time.
I read your articles daily and hope you and your family enjoy your new home.
Just to emphasise Bobs point – my wife and I have been looking at properties in Scotland with the intention of buying to let – In Scotland a £50000 apartment can be rented out for about £450 per month. This is a higher return on puchase price than could be expected in the Philippines where renting is certainly cheaper than buying. House prices in the UK are static – interest rates are at an all time low but mortgages are only available to those prepared to put down 25% of the purchase price which young buyers do not have.The result of this is more houses are needed for rental and rents are rising.This situation we have has not existed for many years,the housing boom ,which caused the bad debts which crippled the world financial system,is over.
Hi D.L.Smith – you always gotta keep the misses happy! That makes your own life even better!
Hi Bob,
Interesting post,like they say in racing circles “Different horses for different courses”.
It all comes down to the individual,and the way they percieve things.
As far as the PH goes,we will rent for the first few years and see where it takes us.
1st year in Davao City,then re-assess.
We have a couple of other options,so we may try living in other places for 1yr each,until we decide where to put down roots or not.
regards,Chas.
HI BOB GOOD POSTING MATE
Like u i have been renting there now for 9 or 10 years mate but this year we did buy a home about 3 hours out off manila city just right for us but we will still have to rent a home for my wifes kids too i like it as we will always have a home there every time i come home and for me that is a lot better and have to rent a new place evry time i leave australia to go to the phill but it dont matter wether u rent or buy in the end it is just u and your loved one got to live there right…………
from peter martin tassie
Hi Bob- From what I have gathered from the comments on this post so far renting as opposed to buying or building a property in the Philippines, renting is by far a North American trait. In the UK for example most middle income and higher income earners would never dream of renting a house to live in. The current UK housing situation with regards to selling is due to the banking situation as of now. Just imagine some one if they were able sell their property in the UK now to come and live in the Philippines to retire with a bank rate of 0.05%.
When you discussion arose about buying or renting as an option my wife let me into a secret one evening whilst having dinner. She informed me that had I not decided to build in 2005 she would have gone ahead and done so herself even although it was just a modest abode. Bearing in mind that she had worked all her married life before we came to live here. I’m glad I/we made the decision to build at least we have something decent to live in. I’m sure couples in our position if the husband had to ask their wives what shall we do Lang ga for the best, I can guess I know the answer.
Regards.
Jim.
I personally disagree with your dad, Tony… but I hope it has worked out well for you, and him too!
Hi Jim – I don’t feel either of us has to present any “case”. If you are happy with what you did, hey, I am very happy for you, and I have no ill will! But, I am happy with what I am doing, can’t we just agree that I can do what makes me happy?
Anyway, congrats on your house, Jim. It honestly makes me happy that you are pleased with the direction that you took. It’s not what I would do, but that’s what makes the world go around… we all get to do what pleases us, and we can all be happy in doing it.
Well, thank you Jim! I appreciate your comment. As Paul Thompson pointed out, in his case, I do think he did the right thing by building a place. In my case, I believe that renting is right for me at this time. Others may disagree and that is their prerogative to do so. But, in the end, I am happy with the direction I am going at this time. 😀
Being 97 and not remembering one’s name would be a far better for me, than being 97 and drooling on you full bank book, trying to remember what was it you were saving for?
The wife and family will have a free and clear house for the remainder of their life, it could be called a legacy, if my memory serves me correct.
Hi Jim,
I think you presented your position rather well, and I think your course of action was quite sensible. I wonder perhaps if yours and Bob’s are a bit of an apples and oranges comparison rather than apples and apples.
I think if Bob could build the house his large household with all the computers and their workers needed for less that PhP 2.5 million, in the location he desires, his decision might be different. The payback from rent savings would be much shorter. Also, when his children move on, he might be able to rent it profitably. Alternately, if he chose to sell it, the chances of doing so in a reasonable time frame is much higher.
I think the idea of inexpensive communal quarters “out back” is interesting. I’m going to mull over that. I’ve never visited Bob’s place, but I’m told his “staff” are often relatives of Feyma. For me, I’m not sure I’d be comfortable sending them out each night away from the main house.
It really comes down to the price of the investment in the end. 2.5 million to save 30,000 in monthly rent versus 10 to 20 million. That’s why it makes sense financially for each of you to do as you’ve done.
Hi Tony- Your dad and I have the same understanding and to be frank if I had not been able to afford to purchase my own house after coming back and forth to the Philippines for almost 28 years i would not have come to stay as we have done.
Regards.
Jim.
Bob:
Back to supply and demand.
My thoughts on the rent issue, at least from a Manila perspective. I think it comes down to where you want to live. Areas like Makati, Tagaytay, and the old money enclaves tend to draw more employed expats and wealthier expats. Rents in those areas can be significantly higher than in other areas, even taking into account the higher house values..
Our house in QC is in a compound with middle class Filipino residents. One other expat, a sea captain who is never around. Rents in this compound range from 8,000 – 25,000 per month, with house values from 2 million to 10 million. There are two houses for sale here, both on the market for over three years. There are two bank foreclosures here, too, which have been in the courts for over five years each. Of the remaining 25 or so houses, about half are rented and the rest are owner occupied.
My point is that in areas with business execs, more “western” design, the proportion of rent to value is much higher. Relatively few Filipinos can afford those rents, and in those areas I’ve seen similar houses to ours renting for 4-5 times as much. I vividly recall a debate in a LinkedIn group after a comment made by a European complaining that his housing stipend of 3,000 Euro per month was inadequate for Greenhills. Yes, many houses there are “expensive”, but very few exceed that 20 million threshold there (Some do…Though I think he was more enamored with his own worth, myself). Similar, when we moved here, I found a house in Alabang, sale for 18 million, rent at 90,000…
Just want to be clear… hope you don’t mind Jim. I am honestly not criticizing you, just pointing something out.
Just because a person chooses to rent his home, it does not mean that “he cannot afford to purchase”. Those two things really are not related at all.
My goodness… no reason to be nasty about it!
I agree with you 100% Bob. Perhaps you should have just turned the sentence around and told Mr. Gil that he was “Stupid” for suggesting you buy a house! Clearly he had not done the math and researched the issues.
In his defense, in most parts of the world, America being a prime example, home ownership is so overrated, so ingrained in everyone’s psychic, to admit that as an adult you are still “renting” automatically implies that you are less than whole, you are a failure because you can’t “afford” to own your own home. I was probably guilty of that line of thought years ago.
Unfortunately, millions of Americans who have gone through foreclosure or are now facing foreclosure, are probably reevaluating that home ownership myth.
I own my own home, free and clear, and as soon as the economy recovers a little more here in Florida, I expect to unload it before everything is lost in a fire, a tornado, a hurricane, a pig farm next door — well, maybe not a pig farm, zoning laws take care of that over here, but you see what I mean. Sure, the home is insured, but go and ask some of those families who were wiped out in Hurricane Katrina a few years back if they recovered fully and the answer will be a resounding “NO”.
If for no other reason, I would see home ownership as an unnecessary “anchor” around my neck if I were already living in the Philippines. Having said that, I can think of a few examples where you might want to own a home. A good example would be if you need to take care of an extended family and want to make sure that when you are planted in the ground, the loved ones left behind have an easier chance of surviving. If your wife or her family had the home in her name, that goal would be easier to accomplish.
Wow Bob I had a hard time finding the bottom of this page so i could give you my 2 cents worth of thought … Who cares what other people think ,It’s a good Idea you have Bob , rent first then buy when you decide to settle down ..Kids all grown up and gone ( WELL MAYBE NOT ) .. then you can find a nice retirement place to live out your life in peace Ohh maybe not ,when you have grandkids they will make your life more interesting too but not too peaceful but it will be enjoyable .. 🙂 Phil
Hey Bob,
Good article… makes one consider or revisit his options on how to approach on living in the Philippines. As you highlight in your article, buy or rent comes down to the individual and how they want to live their life….
some view investments in a monetary sense while others view it as quality of life vs time…
I for one am moving to the Philippines to get the most out of my life….. where time is afforded to pursue my own agendas, and not worrying about how to stay alive…. this ideology of how I want to live my life dictates how I should invest..
I’m a buyer, but that’s me..its because it meets my objectives…. for yourself….at this stage is renting…
your article has now made me consider renting as a feasible option to still meet my objectives…
appreciate the point of view bob… makes my planning more comprehensive and less likely to fail..
Hi Bryan – Thanks for sharing your thoughts, it is interesting. I have not been to Las Pinas before, but I always hear good things about the place, and will try to visit there sometime!
Rent vs buying? – it not only depends on one’s financial matter, but also depends on the real estate market. for those (like me) who live in a rapidly rising market like beijing, china, which rising the average price 8 times in last 10 yesrs, they should buy a house or apartment, but for the people who live in a slow rising place like philippines, maybe renting is more appropriate as i can keep the apartment in beijing and get the rising benifits from the investment , and i use the money of renting out for the rent in philippines, instead of selling the apartment in beijing to buy a house in philippines as i thought before. Which is what i got from tht article and everyone`s comment.
Thanks to all of you.
Hi Susan – Getting into the property management business might be a good thing to do in Australia, since many people are renting as you say! I wish you the best of luck!
@ Mike, there’s a lot to be said for bamboo hahahah 🙂 … personaly i rent now … I found out it’s safer that way (the hard way) hahaha
Jim, I totally agree with her.Here’s mine: We are down here for a good time, not for a long time.
Best regards to you and your better half.
Hi Bob great thread, I was contemplating buying here in Cebu city untill a friend pointed to many Australians now going to USA to buy forclosed properties and renting them, you might find this article from CNN about how these Aussies are doing it.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/29/news/economy/australians_real_estate/index.htm
Bob: Rent or buy, ain’t life grand in the old P.I. May I add that opinions are like (fill in the blank) everybody has one.
Ciao:
Hi Daniel – Thanks for sharing your perspective on this. I couldn’t agree more!
Hi Bob,
I always owned houses in the States. Most of the time I made good money off of them. I also read many news stories about renting vs owning. It always came out as a wash. NO difference in the amount of money spent. Here in PH I rent and at my age and income I don’t see owning a house. Too old and not enough money. Good luck on your move Bob. Davao is just too big of a city for me. Well Tagum is also too big but it will do for the moment. Bukidnon looks good to me. Maybe a few chickens and a goat would be nice plus a few pineapples. 🙂
All the best to all,
Gary
Thanks for sharing that Bryan! Interesting to learn about the situation in Scotland!
Hi Bob – Buying a house in the Philippines and buying a house elsewhere in the world are birds of a different feather.
Plenty of strawman arguments appear on either side of the buy-rent debate. One I always see and wonder about is the cool near-half million of dollars that could be better invested in the market while renting. I don’t personally know anyone (or all have kept it well hidden from me) who has that kind of money to plop down either for a house or for a share of the market.
The argument makes sense and sounds logical. It’s just that in almost every case of buy-rent decision making, the ponderer isn’t plagued by that problematic choice.
I think the better argument dealing with buying in the Philippines is the near non-existent familiar mortgage terms that make owning a home in other countries a dream come true. One can’t shop for a mortgage (let alone find a lender) here in the Philippines, and Joe Six-pack’s 50 year $500,000 mortgage is a dream that just isn’t going to happen here in my lifetime!
Additionally, there just aren’t any fools in the USA or elsewhere who will lend you money to buy your dream house in the Philippines. A PH (newly preferred designation for the Philippines over PI and RP) home dreamer will need to use “creative financing” to get that dream happening. (Now, where have I read about that before?)
😉
Hi chasdv – I think that regardless of desire to purchase, renting for at least a couple of years is an important thing to do when moving to a new country. Wise move, my friend.
Got ya! thanks mate, cheers!!!!
I have owned and rented and now at this time in my life I rent…One thing I did like about owning years ago is you could pretty much do as you wanted with the house,yard,land and etc as long as you did not have any covants on the deed saying other wise. With renting you do not really have the same liberty for doing as you want. So…to me its really up to the person or persons on what they do and how it fits their life style or wallet or what ever works for them……We all have different needs and wants at different times in our lives…great post Bob and lots of different comments…or view points….
Hi Bob – A slightly different slant on this debate. What contingency plans if any does one need in place if renting and you require lengthy hospitalization and convalescence if one is either working here in the Philippines or on a fixed pension?
Regards.
Jim.
I really don’t think this horse is going to get back up!
Obviously, choosing to buy or rent depends on personal circumstances & desires. It certainly is not a determination of bravery or cowardice, whether one is “invested” in their community or suggestive of one renting a bed-mate. That is ridiculous!
I agree that renting is a sensible thing to do. My reasons for developing our own properties are that they are on the beach and I want to be the one who decides what structures are built, and where. I want to be able to set rules that keep my beach clean. I wish to choose who comes & goes. Still, I do have the worries of investing money in property that I could lose, were my wife to pass away early (simba ko). So, I don’t think that either renting or buying is the perfect solution, but I agree with those who believe that you should be pretty sure of where you want to live before buying/building a home of your own. I do intend to build long-term rental accomodations on the beach, but fully expect that tenants will come and go, as they arrive and, later, buy or build their own place, or move to “greener pastures”.
Hi Roberto – Ha ha… that’s true always!
Thanks for sharing your experience, MurrayB. I hope that your 6 months in Bohol is very relaxing and pleasurable!
Hi chris – I used to live in one of the more exclusive gated communities – Woodridge – and there were similar problems there. You just never know! 😉
Bob, Lebron James the American Basketball superstar has a new commercial out done by Nike. Its not related to housing or renting but suggests that he does what he wants to do reguardless of what any pundants think about him or his life. Check it out via You Tube. I think you will relate to it very much!! Something i truly live by, but hey thats just my opinion.
Bob;
Using common sense and a forward thinking Barangay Kaptain, my wife stopped the guy next door from raising pigs in his yard. Chickens? We just gave him that one, without a complaint. (I’m up before his rooster anyway) (lol)
Yes…Bob you are right on the pig farm….that is why if you are going to buy land, buy big and live in the middle of it…and hope the wind blows away from you….
I agree with you Bob about the article you posted about renting. Renting gives you flexibility and freedom as you can easily move from one place to another. Buying a property is of course always a good option as this will serve as your investment in the future especially the price of house and lot is getting higher.
Thanks for this great post! 🙂
Or, you can just get ready for some pork! 😆
I couldn’t agree with what you say more, Mike!
Hi Gary – I can’t disagree with you that Davao is too big a city. It’s getting that way for me too. I could handle the size, if something was being done to alleviate the traffic and congestion, but I don’t see any plans in the works.
Bukidnon is one of my very favorite places. Samal too… but I worry about whether the hugeness of Davao City will creep over to Samal.
Hi, I’ve been looking at this site for a while and specifically wanted to contact Bob because I know he lives around Davao. I’m on SSD and single and have my Daughter with me now but was thinking of relocating whenever she decides what her future plans are (she’s 17).
Anyway, the bottom line is I’m only going to get around $1400/month and just wanted to get you opinion on renting a place at first. I have some Savings also to get started but not enough to buy. And lastly, if you could recommend a place to stay for a few weeks just so I can get a taste of Davao. Thanks in advance.
Doug
I wanted to comment on the squatters article but the comments were closed. I hope its not too inappropriate if I say something here. If so, then just don’t post this. The reasons for the squatters problem, I think, is because the money is in the city. Some squatters even own land and a house somewhere else in the province, but there is no work there and its too far to commute. So they leave their homes and move to the cities and squat while they try to make some money begging or selling street foods or possibly even more prestigious work.
And yes, its not fair to the owners of the land where they are squatting. And its beyond belief that they would refuse to leave, they should be more humble and realize their position.
And relating to the renting vs. owning discussion: Owning a piece of land locks you down and in a world that’s constantly changing, that could prove to be a problem.
Renting gives you the freedom to move, and in a way, renting is a more stable alternative than owning since you are not putting all your eggs in one basket. Then if you have a problem… with squatters, neighbors, water stops working, constant brownouts, etc., you can move.
And besides that, a foreigner in a foreign land, even if he is legally a resident, should never really fool himself into thinking that he is equal to the natives, he will always be a guest, maybe a long-term guest, but still a guest. A testament to a country’s humanity is how well they treat their guests. So what can you say about the Philippines?
Hi Jim – I am sorry, I thought you were asking me, since you addressed it to me.
hi bob,
we also live in davao and we share your view about it.
i would like to know to where would you want to move?
cebu and manila are even more congested and polluted and any other town does not have even a mediocre infrastructure.
we will probably end up in mexico. same prices or even cheaper, quality of life 50% higher..
also please tell us what happened in woodridge. what kind of conflicts did you have with your neighbours? i do not live there but i play tennis in woodridge.
fred
it is something unusual Bob, and it makes me a bit sad.
I have been phili 3 times in the past 2 years. I love to stay in Palawan and Boracay. Not the 5 star hotels, but the 2 and 3 start hotel as there you get to meet the real phili ppl.
I was there May 2011 for 25 days, loved eveyrday and meet some great ppl.
I heard alot of Western complaints not just Americans. I got sick and tired of Western ppl complaining about little things. I even jumped in at one hotel I was staying at becasue a Western person was yelling at poor phili girl at the front desk about the tour they took that day and was a longer day then they anticipated. I will not use the colourful language that was spoken. After I stepped in and told them what for they backed down as they did not like me (Australian) having a go at them.
I asked the Hotel management does this sort of thing happen often. The response I got. “Getting worse”.
After I left Palawan for Boracay. As I have stayed in the same hotel in boracay 3 times, I have a good relationship with the owner. I was talking about what happened in Palawan and how upsetting it was. The owner said ” Western ppl are forgetting this is Phili not the USA/Australia/Germany. Ppl are expecting far too much, it is not there house back home. They have had to remove ppl from this hotel because of the abuse some ppl have given.
I love phili and the phili ppl. Wish I could be there 100%
Bob
Honestly I could see how Filipino/s would not want to deal with Americans. When we pay rent we pretty much want everything/issue taken care by the landlord, he owns it he fixes the problems and issues. And I think it is in our character that we are frank and to the point when we have what we feel is a issue and want it taken care of.
I hope the Filipino nation on a whole doesn’t trend to judging all Americans by the acts of some “Ugly Americans” that they may have dealt with in the past.
Hi Paul – I believe you, and I think you are correct that this is a problem that is getting worse. Maybe westerners are under stress due to the poor economy, I don’t know, but they do seem to be taking out their stress here.
Well the way I look at it is the difference in age groups. When I was in P.I. back in the Vietnam days, we were young and had a great time. More laid back then, now it’s go go go go!, and me me me me! People are more rude and self-centered. I think it comes with the times. There are more people in the U.S. now and we are turning into Asians. Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Indians….and other asian cultures have come to the United States and they are pretty rude here. They bring their cultures with them and expect to have their demands met too. Back when air travel was still a luxury, we traveled less and we were in awe of new cultures. Now I believe this world is one big melting pot, and we are all fighting for more service and quicker results, because we have made more money than our fathers did. My parents were lower middle class, during the war years and into 80’s. Now it seems everyone is rich, and can travel at a whim. So when we go some place exciting, we want the same service we get at home. It’s truly a shame that our bad habits follow us where ever we go. And by “we” I mean every culture.
Hi Precy May – Thanks for commenting. Yes, I agree, it’s really unusual compared to the past!
Hi Bob: Maayong buntag. Ang among ginikanan na-ay rental homes nya gibilin sa amo, para sa retirement. Ang akong igso-on ang legal executor. Siya retired na sa U.S. Navy. Gipag rent niya and properties para makabayad sa taxes, insurance, ug dili na mahimo sa squatters. Na-ang managers on-site. Ang among managers mag sulti in reference to “Americano” kong ang renter “Puti” bisag dili Americano. Basa puti, “Americano” and ilang tawag.
Hi Bob,
Yam lives in a four unit apartment building in Cebu. It is among a cluster of buildings that form a residential compound. Several months ago a middle-aged American moved in. He was a nonstop complainer, and a loud one at that. He put the entire compound on edge and I’m sure has made the landlord much less inclined to rent to Americans or foreigners in the future.
His complaints were often about things that I consider part of the cultural fabric of Pilipinas residential compound living, and therefore, should be out-of-bounds for us to try to change. For example, he was constantly shouting about people’s roosters’ noises and he wanted people to keep their dogs from wandering around in the compound.
Usually he spoke down to all Filipinos as if they were all idiots and he was inconsiderate. He would take his trash and throw it onto other people’s space.
There was a common gutter system that ran along the back of the entire building. It was shared by each of the building’s apartments. His was the furthest “downstream.” He built a little dam blocking it. That caused everyone’s laundry water and “outdoor kitchen” water to have nowhere to go and flooded the other three apartments. He was completely unapologetic, and thought it was his right to prevent other people’s stream from flowing past the back of his apartment.
On the other hand, he thought it was none of anybody’s business when it came to his lifestyle. He had an endless parade of women coming and going which was a bit of a scandal to everyone. If the Ayala family weren’t already rich, he personally helped out at least the next generation get that way; he drank San Miguel as if his mission in life was to make them millionaires.
As I said, he changed the entire atmosphere of the compound, and very negatively at that. Because of Pakikisama, nobody wanted to confront him. And yet he was so much in violation of Pakikisama his impact was much stronger in a negative way than it would have been if he had been in the USA. Over there he would have just been a bit of a “jerk.” But in that Filipino compound his disturbance of the harmony of the compound was so severe I think the residents are emotionally scarred for life.
Fortunately for everyone in the compound, he got “fed-up” with the way the Filipinos were, and moved out, taking his constant yelling and his harem with him.
I still can’t get over the fact that he actually tried to get the landlord (who only owns his house and the one apartment building) to order all the neighboring houses to get rid of all roosters.
Hey Bob,
It is not how most Americans think about Mexicans, it is how we feel about all the 12 million illegal mexicans here that are demanding rights, expect our tax dollars to support their children in school and etc. I just wanted to clarify there is a difference of being in the country legally or not.
art
Thoughts to consider there, Bob. Anti-foreigner attitudes are spreading widely across the world right now. In the US, individual states enact their own anti-foreigner laws, believing that the federal law isn’t strict enough.
In Europe, the Schengen Visa (which allows free travel between European Union countries) has been suspended or heavily restricted by many signatories.
In Thailand, which formerly had a tourist visa policy nearly as flexible as the Philippines, visa renewals are now essentially limited to one time only.
And of course, who can forget the recent outrage in Norway … true the product of an extremely deranged man … but anti-foreigner in nature none-the-less.
I certainly don’t think it’s a Filipino-American issue only.
Well I can understand why some may feel that way. I am sure there is many people that come from America that for some reason they think that the Philippines is ran by America and they think that everything should have the same type of treatment as America. How far from the truth they are in my opinion. Now do I feel that who ever you are should get what you paid for or was promised. Yes I do, but do i know that some times that means different ideas in different countries why sure I do. So what i would suggest is that these Americans that are having problems get out of their little bubble and get to know the the Filipino people and their cultural. I remember all the years taking college students to Cancun Mexico and they would get into trouble or they did not like something and they said they would sue or have their family attorney get them into trouble. I would laugh so hard at these kids and remind them about the pep talk I gave them all on the plan ride down that once they got on the plane and sat down they left their rights back at the ticket counter and now they are no longer covered by any american rights, they would all give me the deer in the headlight look and say OK. then when time came and they were in trouble they would ask for help and I would remind them of what I told them. They could not understand why they had been locked in a jail cell for 3 days for throwing gum on the ground. See so i don’t think the problem lies with in the Filipino people, i think it lies with the Americans and other top countries that are used to certain laws and requirements when you pay for something and its not what they feel is standard. These people very fast, learn that they are no longer in Kansas anymore and have been taught a hard lesson. So should Filipino people stop doing business with american people? I say no, but should the Filipino people try a new way to market their rentals and realy describe the rentals and work that they sell of rent out, Yes that way there is no confusion from the start from either side. The person renting or paying for the service will feel better and I think both sides can make a better business relationship for a long time. I dont know if that ran all over the place, but I can see a bright future for everyone as long as communication is the number one factor for each party.
Does Jose Antonio Vargas ring a bell. I wonder how Filipinos queueing in the US Embassy feels.
I do have mixed feelings about “immigration reform”. From how I read the immigration reform proposals, it’s more of amnesty to illegals than helping people come to the US easier.
I think the US just needs to enforce its immigration laws…and strictly define the 14th amendment (it is just too vague and open to interpretation) because the lack of those affect a lot of overseas Americans. Just imagine the ridiculous requirements when a US citizen wants to pass his citizenship to his offspring born abroad. Even though I am non-American, I find it ridiculous that people on tourist visa can have a citizen child. I’ve come across Filipino forums where they are discussing that they are going to the US on tourist/visitor visa to give birth in the US. Maybe the State Department should create a “Birth Visa” instead.
Imagine the case of Flores-Villar. Born to a US father in Mexico but cannot be a citizen because his father failed to meet the 5 year residency requirement after 14 (his father sired him at age 16)… (and now some people are pushing to legalize the illegals)
Hi art – I am not in favor of illegal aliens either. But, think about this.. most Americans, at the sight of a Mexican, automatically assume them to be illegal. That’s what I was talking about.
Hi Rich,
That was the Coast Guard I was in. Search and rescue and many other things.
I only spent 4 years active duty and I got mighty tired of treading water all that time.
To this day I cannot swim 10 feet. Oh wait. Yes I can, but unfortunately the 10 feet is straight down.
Maybe I should have been a submariner ?
Like I said to Mars that also was in the Coast Guard, that is what boats and life jackets are for.
I know plenty of guys in the Air Force including the pilots, that cannot fly a lick without their planes or parachutes.
So I don’t see any difference, do you ?
We never lost anyone because of my rather limited swimming ability.
If you lost your anchor though I was the guy to find it.
Ask Bob for my email address if you want to trade some stories, I’d like to hear your tank & Vietnam experiences.
Now back to Bob’s topic. Well……………. it’s like this Bob…………….and then……..
Hi Dan – In your comment you said “that’s the attitude you get from the article and the comments” (bashing Americans). I wrote the article…. 😉
Methinks that the reason a lot of people move to the Philippins is to get away from crappy self centered neighbors and a goverment that protects the rights of the low lifes to infringe on and take from the working class. It should be no surprise that the worst of the crappy neighbors just might show up in foreign countries to continue their crap. Especially a country like the Philippins where the people are basicly tolerant and will put up with a lot more than some one from another country might. Too bad some one didn’t call the local police and complain about that guy. A few years in a Fhilippino jail cell may have mellowed him out and made him easier to get along with. In America the renter has all of the rights and the land loard has the problems. A good share of the rental units are trashed and left with unpaid rent by the time the tenant is evicted. Oh well hopefully not too many of this type will make it to these wonderfull islands.
Hi Dave – I have to say, the thing that really surprised me on this is that property owners told Feyma that they did not wish to rent to Americans. They specifically told her that other foreigners were fine, but they preferred no Americans. Seems a bit surprising, don’t you think?
Hi Brent – You are so correct on so many levels. Like you, I don’t blame the Filipinos, I think that it is a few American bad apples who make life difficult for other Americans here by causing trouble and such. They set a bad example, and it rubs off on all of us. That’s a shame, but it’s also understandable.
You are right, Pete, we sure don’t need that “Us vs. Them” attitude!
Pete,speaking of Canadians, 15 years ago I had an American guy help me paint my house. During the Viet Nam war he was in Army intel/communication.He traveled a lot. He told me whenever he wore civilian clothes no matter what foreign country he was in,he would wear a Canadian pin & sometimes hat. He said,he learned that foreigners generally have a much better opinion of Canadians than Americans.He wore the Canadian pin to avoid trouble. By the way,I also read a survey once that declared “According to foreign woman asked in a survey, Canadian men are perceived to be or actual make better husbands than Americans” I don’t recall the exact details of the survey,but I do recall foreign woman preferring Canadian men,next American as husbands. Of course as I recall,the woman preferred Canadians & Americans over men from any other country. So,I guess a person can conclude that American men on average are a good catch “Internationally speaking” or at least they are perceived to be. Whenever a country is perceived to be rich & or powerful,there will be jealousy,envy,resentment,fear etc, We Americans will need to start worrying if the Canadians & Mexicans start/finish building fences to keep us out.hehe The aforementioned Re: Best Husbands survey is devoid of exact details. It is a general recollection & nothing more.
This brings to mind when im searching for an apartment or house i always let the little woman ask the rent price without me there first.Then i go look at it,i have had some jump the price by 2000 after they see me.It seems like its the older generation that does that.As far a fixing problems where i live now i buy everything and fix it and take it off my rent or it may not get done.I think on the whole filipinos like my money because they know i will have the rent each month to give them.
Again an article you write, has something that has happened to me recently, (funny)…..I been wanting to move to the Dumaquete area, and have been looking for almost 2 years for the perfect property, 2 years ago I found the perfect rental, but it was taken…It became available again 3 months ago, and I made an offer thru an agent who managed the property. He sent me an e-mail back saying the owner did not want to rent to an American. I was amazed!!!!
Hi Bob, It’s difficult as you say trying to be a reasonable representative of the US when all around are many brash, ignorant, whining and clueless foreigners acting out all around you. I think that foreigners in general have earned a reputation for being irresponsible and not being very respectful or interested in Filipinos as individuals or even being aware of their culture or ways. Many Americans are constantly expecting things to be the way that they have always known them to be, and not willing to compromise or see the lighter side of any situation.
Also, I think that many Americans seem to leave their common sense at home when visiting or spending time in the country. I read in the Cebu news almost weekly about some foreigner staying at a hotel or local bar acting foolishly and getting themselves in trouble or even worse, injured or killed. It’s no wonder that Americans might be looked upon with distrust, impatience or disdain.
I guess it takes an attempt by every concientious person to do their best to be mindful of how we as guests are perceived here by others.
if i like a place i rent..if it needs something fixed i just do it my self no problem..i like to work with my hands i have tools..i like nice yard also..so i make it nice..its like a hobby for me,we all need something to do here besides go to mall or complain..or drink,im not big on the drinking thing
Maayong gabii sa inyo sa States, Roselyn. Mao gyud, kon puti sila, Amerikano diri sa Pilipinas! Wala nay European o Aussie.. Amerikano lang kong puti! Ha ha… Maayong swerte sa inyong mga balay nga arkila!
Hi Neal – I think that the tendency to “judge a group” by the few bad apples is probably pretty endemic in every country. In the States, immigrants are judged. Think about how most Americans consider Mexicans, and others.
Interesting angle, Tom. Thanks for sharing.
Hi Kareem – Thanks for stopping by, and thanks especially for offering your view. Some of your points I agree with strongly, some I disagree with, although only slightly. Probably the most disagreement would be when you say for Filipinos to please give us a warm welcome as renters. Although I love the sentiment, it would be hard to ask that from somebody who has been burned, especially multiple times, by other Americans. I understand that not all Americans are the same, but we can be perceived to be that way.
Take care, Kareem.
I think its a generation gap/difference. Americans of the 50’s until the 80’s probably had grandparents who lived and served in the philippines (back when it was still US territory) and had a much better understanding of the people and culture here.. old people i’ve met we’re generally nicer… don’t worry.. it’s not just filipinos who had issues with rude westerners… my sisters’ father in law (a texan) always complains about how rude the other american guy (living across the street) is.
Also, i don’t that what you’re experiencing is outright hostility. I think it’s a reaction from filipinos who felt insulted by westerners claims that all filipinos are out to steal or are after them for the money… its probably our way of telling people that not all of us can be bought. Its not a racist thing since filipinos really dont care that much about race (im mixed greek/italian/chinese/filipino and most filipinos arent pure race).
Its not that westerners like to complain… its because some westerners (especially the younger ones don’t know how to respect others) it’s the materialism of the current generation, whether filipino or westerner who thinks that everyone, everything including pride, honor, and respect can be bought..
Or maybe thats just people in the cities. People in the provinces sure are nicer 🙂
Karina – Really, it makes me quite sad the way that you speak of your country. When you say that you live in Australia, how would you feel if I said “why would anybody want to live in that pit?” The Philippines is a great place, I have lived here for 13+ years now, and I love it here. I have, over the years, even considered giving up my US Citizenship and becoming a Philippine citizen.
I do appreciate your kind comments, but would only encourage you to have more love for your country. It’s not a bad place!
I am sorry, but I don’t think that what you say is accurate, Australian. Firstly, the USA did not fight the Japanese to “save their colony” – the US fought the Japanese purely because of their attack on Pearl Harbor.
Secondly, the article was about Filipinos not renting to Americans… because of the behavior the Filipinos have seen from Americans living here… nothing to do with geopolitical topics.
Hi Rick – I think all of us foreigners who live here or spend significant time here have lost it from time to time. It is natural, as this place is so much different from what we are used to. I know that I have lost it on a number of occasions here. In the heat of the moment, I let things get the better of me, and after things have calmed down I am embarrassed and regret my actions. Thankfully, I do it a lot less now than I did years ago. You will too. All you can do is strive to improve.
Hi Walter, some of what you say applies to this situation. Over the years, though, it gap become harder for Americans to do business here, just my observation.
Hi Henry – Plenty of people are deported… it all comes down to respecting others!
I don’t think that politics or war has anything to do with the phenomena that I wrote about in this article. It’s the attitude and behavior of my fellow Americans here in the Philippines that created the problem.
Succinct and spot on! I agree 100% Robert.
I think you have some valid observations there, louie. Of course, every nationality complains to some extent, though.
Hi Robert: Thank you.
Hi Bob,
I agree every nationality complains to some extent and Americans tend to be frank when complaining. And some Americans are bad neighbors and I bet they were a pain to their American neighbors too. I do get the feeling Americans are catching some of the flack for other nationalities shortcomings. I had the biggest problem with my wife thinking everyone who is Caucasian is a American. We would be walking in SM Mall and she would say “babe Americano.” I finally got her to realize a person is not an American just because they are Caucasian.
Of course, America has a responsibility to expel Japanese scums since the former purchase us from Spain for 20 million bucks.
Bob,
I remember the first time I visited Cheryl’s parents house the neighbors commented after I left how well behaved I was for an American. So I think there is some perception even in the province that Americans are spoiled brats. I try to over come that impression everytime I vist now. Not just in the province but any time I travel here.
Hi Bob: Salamat kaayo sa imong Binisaya. Ako, wala na nakasulat ug Binisaya sa quarenta ka tuig. Ang ako Binisaya nya sulat didto sa akong lola. Nagpahulay na siya. Ang akong inahan gusto man ug Iningles para makapractice siya. Pero, and akong inahan mag Binisaya kong motawag ko nila dinha sa Filipinas. Kataw-on ko sa akong inahan kog mag-Binisaya ko. Ing-nan ko niya nya ang ako Binasaya “slang Binisaya”. Kamusta na lang.
On one post it says “I think on the whole filipinos like my money because they know i will have the rent each month to give them.” Having had rentals in the states I was interested in two things when I rented property; The charater of the person I was renting to -*-* and believe it or not , if I thought the person that would rent my property would pay. I guess even though I am a kano I have a lot in common with the Filippno, I too was very interested in collecting my rent in exchange for the guy using my property. According to the trend Bob is saying is coming about it appears that perhaps the property owners are becomming more interested in the character of the people renting their property than in liking a persons money.
Hi Kevin – I don’t know whether to laugh at the guy or cry over the situation he created. You sure hit the nail on the had, though, of what I was thinking when I wrote the article. One thing you said was that it probably made the landlord leery of renting to Americans or other foreigners… I just want to clarify that in Feyma’s experience on this, the property owners are not adverse to renting to other foreigners, but it’s the Americans that are not acceptable to them any longer. Sad… very sad. Unfortunately, it’s people like your “friend” that are causing trouble for the rest of us!
I think the drunken American syndrome is a real problem.
I recently had an encounter with a Filipina mom with her two early teen age daughters. She didn’t want to sit near me in Pizza Hut. It was obvious.
I suspect she was afraid what the American, who is probably a drunk in her mind would say to her or her daughters.
All the foreigners that can’t leave the underage girls alone are also causing the rest of us problems.
A damn? Geesh, what a jerk. Roosters? Don’t like those but want to live in a compound? go home yankee.
Hahaha, Biz, I see you’re still plugging the book I wouldn’t read because of the Magellan thing, that of Madame Carmen’s claim that Magellan did not discover the Philippines, but, rather the Indios discovered him. LOL I am further convinced that I would never read the book in light of what you just said about the “naval battle sham” between Spanish and American forces. She really said that? The Battle of Manila Bay was a sham? Wow. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t the “sham” (secret collaboration between Spanish and American forces that effectively shunted aside Philippine revolutionary forces from the surrender picture) AFTER U.S. infantry had disembarked from U.S. transports arriving from San Francisco after a month long voyage, effectively denying the Katipuneros’ credit for the triumph over Spanish forces garrisoned in Manila? Commodore Dewey could not disembark from the Olympia to secure Manila after his victory over Montojo, but had to wait for about a month before the first units of U.S. infantry started arriving. This was when the “sham”occured.
you are so right Bob..i have noticed ,in all the airports ,restaurants,immigration offices ect..the biggest complainers seem to Americans
Bob: I agree with you that Kevin really nailed it… What makes situations like that worse is the Tsismis that surely followed, leaving a lasting impression on everyone. It is why I cringe every time I see and hear a fellow American going on about their “rights” is an obnoxious manner. It paints everyone with the same brush.
Bob,
Working in the law enforcement/corrections field i can pretty much tell if a Mexican or Central American is illegal. Don’t speak english, no social security number, don’t know where the live, no DL/registration/false tags and a pocket full of money. Alot of them will have a ICE Hold placed on them if they do not post bond first. The biggest thing that irks me about them is that when they get pulled over for drunk driving the officer will not charge them most of the time with DUI because the officer cannot speak spanish to conduct the Breathalyzer test or has no one to interpret for him. I’ve seen so many that could hardly walk be arrested, but only charged with No DL. Great article Bob! Be safe.
Ha ha… yeah, something about the States… once a person moves there it doesn’t take them long to become very American!
Topic creep is a killer of sites like this….
We just moved to a new house and ONE of our neighbors is complaining about our dog’s barks and I don’t know what to do. Haha! I am a Filipino and so are our neighbors. So who is the bad neighbor?
When I visit this site. I read the article and all the comments with it. With this article I spent a lot of time reading the comments more than the article and I love it because inputs are really wise here unlike other sites.
Thank you for a nice site, nice article and nice inputs!
Hi Bob,
That’s an interesting article. Haven’t come across that but I’ve heard a bit about the Koreans. One local town official commented they would prefer not to have the Koreans in their community.
Alex
Loved that Miranda warning, Scott! 😆
Yes Bob the rental market does seem to be good there. My pamangkin just finished a 19 unit apartment building in Olongapo and they had half of the units rented before it was completed. The last two weeks they had people showing up every day trying to leave a deposit. For some reason they wouldn not take it but put their name on a list and told them to come back on the compleation day. I guess I am fortunate as I think they intend to rent to one american, me. After reading how the attitude is changing there I guess I better be on my best behavior or I may be homeless.
the phrase”the ugly american ” was coined by exactlley what you said in your article
You know, I am surprised I even wrote that. I must have been in a really foul mood. Sorry Kevin.
I get back around some day.
Bob, I love the Rate this in the comments, I’m going to have to look for that.
You know, I am surprised I even wrote that. I must have been in a really foul mood. Sorry Kevin.
I get back around some day.
Bob, I love the Rate this in the comments, I’m going to have to look for that.
Yes it’s a sad situation, but it is how it is.
There have been a number of comments on here over the years about foreigners behaving like clowns, and that’s probably only the tip of the iceberg. It brought to my mind a comment by Bob Martin perhaps a year ago, when he said that he would often see fellow foreigners in the malls etc, and give a polite nod, but not attempt to spark up a conversation.
Here’s an additional thought: I met a lot of American’s and Brits (etc.) in Saudi Arabia, but only on one or two occasions did I ever meet any who were out and out ass*****. Now, I suspect that that is probably because Saudi Arabians believe themselves to be superior to Westerners, who are, after all, there as overseas workers, being paid for services rendered. Bit of a “role reversal” scenario really, compared to the Philippines. Perhaps people only act that way when they are foolish enough to think that they are in some way “special”, rather than a replaceable service provider?
Hi Tom – Gee, it’s really sad. I wonder why Americans are so like that. What made us that way? I suppose that the only thing I can come up with is that we are all so spoiled by the good life, and we have come to expect that we deserve only the best. It doesn’t always work that way, though.
In defense of my fellow Americans I would say most folks here seem to be painting everyone with the same broad brush. I never complain except to my wonderful asawa unless I have a very good reason. I never expect perfection but I do expect to get what I paid for, nothing more nothing less. Perhaps if some people did demand more….more from their government, more from their social services, more from their education department then life might actually improve for all.
Treat others as you would like to be treated is an oldie but a goodie. So easy to say yet so hard for some to do. And some just don’t care as we all know. The polite and honest people just need to perservere and keep setting a good example.
We have only lived in the Phils a little over a year and we are now in our second rental house. The first landlady( a Filipina) is just overseeing the houses her mother who lives in the U.S. owns here. This daughter was terrible is all I can say, her and her live in friend fought a lot and were very noisy and played music and karaoke at all times with absolutely no respect at all for the neighbors or their renters. And dogs in the sub to the point that my wife ( a Filipina) was afraid to walk at all as we were attacked more than once. No one seemed to care in the least. We are not complainer people I don’t think, butshould one be able to at least go for a healthy walk without being attacked by a dog ?, I should say a pack of dogs. Some places are good and some are just plain bad. I fixed and updated a number of things at that house and did not charge them for it. I don’t believe it was appreciated at all.
So we found another house not in a sub and a tad further up the mountain where it is somewhat cooler. We have a great landlady now that “wants” to know if anything needs fixing and has also gone to the mayor of her own accord to see what can be dome about slowing down the speeders on this street. Her idea , not ours. But I do feel it is just a matter of time before someone is killed. Our landlady has had a 2 other renters here before us. One a Brit and one Filipino family. She (a Filipina) says she will never rent to a Filipino again. We are very clean people and that is just the way we are, we pick up leaves and things in the yard twice a day as an example. As you can guess this gets back to the landlady quickly as many people go by this house that know her. She told us she never had renters anywhere that took care of a house and yard like we do. How nice of here to say. She had a no pet policy which we were o.k. with even though we really like dogs. She changed her mind on that and now we have a great pup who is our best friend. If you want respect you have to give it. I am up-grading some things for this lady also at my expense and she is allowing me to do it as I explian why it would be better to have this or that. So being she is so obliging we will be staying in this house a long long time, maybe for good. Now, things may not get fixed or up-graded quickly but it will eventually get done. She has a maintenance guy she uses all the time and he is so good you have to just wait your turn in line. It is worth the wait and keeps him happy her happy so no big deal. Would we like it done sooner ? Sure. But I scratch your back you scratch mine. No problem. But if it is soemthing like no electric ( other than a brownout), no water, or something health related he will be over here in a flash even on Sunday.
Now, our landlady has lived also in 2 other countries for a number of years, Does that give her a different outlook ? Probably. Bottome line she is great. Once our water was out and she wanted us to come over to her house and shower and spend the day. How nice is that ? We didn’t go as we just went to one of the mountain streams near here and “showered”. I am not saying I never get up-set about the noise and the fact they never enforce any speeding or driving laws, or motorcycles with no mufflers, it does happen. But that’s life. No place is perfect. Bottom line is a pretty darn nice place to live. Some people are super freindly and some not. I don’t see much difference that way between here and the U.S.
On the other hand I have had some really bad experiences buying used cars here from local dealers. They lie through their teeth and it doesn’t bother them at all it appears. That in itself is a story. No one likes to be blantantly lied to I don’t think. With one guy I dealt with I told him up front that the car had to be a 2003 or newer. No problem he said. Low and behold after getting the thing I discover it was maded in 1996 ! But after bringing this and a few other things to his attention that were not as represented I am a complainer ! This guy is a lawyer to.
Do you all think I am wrong for complaining that this vehicle is 7 years older than what was agreed upon ? Please let me know on that one. If I am wrong I’ll change my ways.
Just how is it anyhow that a car made in 1996 and gets imported here as a surplus as it is called has a year on the registration as being a 2008 model anyhow ? This seems very wrong to me. Fortunately I remembered now how to tell when a car is made by the VIN number, or you can look at a little tag on the seat belts where it connects to the floor. That works if the belts haven’t been tampered with. The VIN number is the beat way.
That’s my story for today folks. That’s life, some days are diamonds some days are stone. Some days you are the pigeon , some days you are the statue.
Again, don’t give up, treat others as you would like to be treated. The jerks will be self eliminating and I think most folks know that.
Have a fantastic day.
Charlie Tuna the ole manook of the sea. :o)
I hope so too, Loren. Additionally, I think that not only those who want to get away come, but there is also a large number of Americans who come here for two things:
1. Sex with young women.
2. Cheap alcohol.
The combination is perfect to produce yet another ugly american. As Kevin said when he told about the ugly american in his complex…. the guy was into these two things pretty heavily. It is often that type that makes a bad name for other Americans who just want to live a nice life.
Loren
I couldn’t have said it any better myself!!
Interesting.. you are exactly right about the Koreans, Alex. I had not thought about that, but the same thing has been going on with Koreans for a longer time, maybe 6 or 7 years now. It seems that Americans are sliding into that position now.
Frankly, I wish the Philippines would be a lot more selective as to the foreigners they let in. It’s pretty sad to say, but by default I tend to shy away from any foreigners I see, by chance, say at the mall.
If I strike up a conversation, it’s about a 99% chance the subject will immediately turn to all the litany of things that are “wrong’ with the Philippines, and why “they” should fix this or prohibit that and on and on. Often accompanied by loud and bastos language.
I’m no prude, I certainly can cuss when I lose my temper or I’m in a stressed situation, but I can complete a sentence or two without the F-word or changing the subject to blame the ills of the world on our current president … often accompanied by the N-word. It’s pretty sad.
As far as property rentals? I might move to another location and rent out my current home in the not too distant future. I wouldn’t, however, dream of advertising and renting my home to a foreigner. I would not want to subject myself to the continual harping, whining and general dissatisfaction with everything.
The last time I was back in the USA, I couldn’t wait to gte back home to the Philippines. You know why? Every American I met, especially older ones like me, seemed to be nothing but a veritable fountain of complaints, dissatisfaction and both covert and overt racism. And politics? OMG. Believe it or not folks, every problem you have is NOT caused by whichever political persuasion you particularly love to hate. I know that sounds simplistic, but it’s true,
I really feel I don’t have a country to go home to anymore …thank God for the Philippines, and especially the roosters 😉
no wonder Bob I don’t hear anything from some places I inquired during our stay in Davao…few hotels responded some don’t…only 1 condo replied to me she is based in New York a filipina that owns the place I’m interested…but in reality not all Americans are bad…every nationality has it own bad thing…regardless of how they think for Americans my husband will not change his mind of retiring in Davao;-)
Ha ha.. mao gyud, Biz. Ha ha… naa koy kurat usahay!
Hi Queenie – I could not agree with you more! You are absolutely correct. In fact, last night, a friend of mine, and his wife were here for dinner. They live in Cebu and in Manila (splitting time between the two due to business reasons). My friend is from Europe, and we have been close friends for more than 10 years now, and I mean very close. He can speak both Tagalog and Cebuano. I can speak only Cebuano (in terms of local languages). We were discussing this very line of thinking that you have laid out. I told him that without a doubt the #1 thing I have done to enjoy a happier life here in the Philippines is learning the local language. Can you “get by” or “make it” with only English? Sure. But, if you just “get by” you will never have a deep understanding of the local culture or the thinking of local people. If you just allow yourself to slide through with just English, you will miss out on so much of what the Philippines is all about. I personally believe that learning the local language (learn the language most commonly spoken in the place where you will live), it is the best thing you can do to give yourself a happy life, acceptance by the local people, and just all around better experience of living in the Philippines.
😉
oh Bob…I would like to see u and Feyma during our stay?maybe lunch or dinner?
Bob,
I have discovered that here in Dipolog every Caucasian is consider to be an American. A lot of locals have problems distinguishing between the various nationalities. One time I heard guy say he was from Poland and his local companion replied “What part of the U.S. is Poland in?”
I have met a lot of arrogant Americans while overseas and have had the chance to tell a few of them that they are not in Kansas any more! I have also meet and equally number of arrogant people from other nations.
But no where is the sense of entitlement stronger than from my own country.. the good old U.S. of A!
I have come to a conclusion over the course of many years observing my fellow countrymen in Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and now the Philippines. Only Americans expect a good life. In my opinion it is that strong sense of entitlement that is ruining our reputation overseas.
I personally believe that if you have a problem with anything in life… look for solutions. That way when you present a problem you will also have several ideas that will improve the situation immensely. This approach has worked well my whole life and in every country I have lived in. I have found the concept to be universally acceptable.
Moaning and complaining about a problem never get much done except create bad feelings!
Guess I will wear a tee shirt with a German flag on it if I ever look to rent property in Davao!
Hi maynard – I’m glad that you have everything worked out as far as repairs and such. We also have good landlords who are always willing to fix anything that needs it, which I am very thankful for.
I am a filipina and my fiance is American. Very very nice person and loves my country. I am proud this.
But many Americans, including many on this site complain a lot. Always make negative remark about the filipines. Makes me wonder why they live my country when all they do is complain. If you don’t like my country leave.
I think many filipinos still like Americans but are getting tired of the complaining and thinking they better than us filipinos.
When me and my fiance stayed in condo in Manila the property manager was filipina. She told us that we were welcome any time. She said my fiance was nice and respectful and they appreciate that.
Many Americans think they are better just because they born and come from America. That is not true. Filipinos have respect also and want to be treated with respect.
Thanks to all the experts who have shown me the light of why Filipinos don’t like Americans. And I thought it was because of all the 50-70 year old men having wives in their teens or twenties
Hi Lenny – Ha ha.. yes, I am inside your brain, and document your experiences for the rest to learn from! 😯
Seriously, it really is amazing, but as I think about it, I can understand why it has gotten like this.
Hi Mark – I wrote this article some years back, and I have changed a fair amount since I wrote it. I am like the Texan that you described, I also feel uncomfortable with the actions of some of my fellow Americans who live here. I am in my 50s, so maybe you are right!
Yeah I don’t hate my country entirely and I acknowledge that even Australia has its downsides. But having lived in Cebu all through the 14 years of my life, I have parents, educated and hardworking as well as obedient citizens have been subjected to all sorts of abuse from the system. My dad lawyer had seen the really darkside of our society- lawyers who really fight for justice are shot down, I’ve got an uncle who is the manager in Ayala mall who abuses his employees. All those working in malls are paid badly and also abused, people working in haciendas were painful to my dad, my own rich cousins driving away the poor who were at their gate singing carols, my classmates who would often care only big brand items, and would constantly ask where I’d used to buy my shoes and clothes (as a rhetorical remark). These are the type of filipinos who I just can’t love- and many educated ones who are also working abroad would also agree with this.
Sorry if I said that harsh about my country. But I am just not happy over how the minority elites have exploited the people and look down on them. Things weren’t.like this before the Marcos admin- we were even ranked 2nd in the best run economy in the 60s of all Asia. Then martial law came and there started the cronyism that so rampant it became very ingrained in the filipino psyche. The many brains in our country have fled so there’s even less innovation and reform made from among the locals. The gov’t we have are still dominated from Marcos’ ex-cronees and their children and for as long as they are there many filipinos would still be exploited and remain impoverished. From where you are, Davao is actually one of the only safest place to roam about, but Manila and Cebu for low income working classes are just not as much pleasant.
I hope that I’m not being misunderstood that I totally revile my nationality, but that I want to be truthful with how things are over there as I also speak on behalf of those who have been victimized by the gov’t and its utterly rotten system 🙂
I know many filipinas married to older man, some much older. Not once have I heard a complaints about the man being older. Many filipinas look for older husband and that fine to most filipinos.
What is not fine is lack of respect and arrogant behavior of people just because they come from more rich country.
Hi Bob,
Its not just filipinos who have turned off americans. I think you will find in Europe and Australia as well they are generally not highly regarded. Its a shame because you have so many good people who post on your site but there are also quite a few who display the ugly american attributes of not only complaining and thinking they are superior to everyone else but also a loud arrogant pig ignorance born out of what appears to be a very poor education system in the USA which makes educated people cringe. Its sort of a flat earth mentality that nothing of any worth exists beyond the borders of the USA.
Dragging other western countries into useless wars and indefensible diplomatic positions to serve corporate masters in the US and her friends in Israel has not helped in recent decades.
While the US was wealthy and all powerful it was tolerated but now that the US sun is beginning to set the grudging fearful respect is waning with it and disrespect is spreading like a cancer.
What can you do? Nothing in my opinion – the die is cast.
cheers,
Michael
I like your attitude, harry! Keep it up!
Way sapayan, Roselyln. Kasabot ko sa imong kahimtang. kwarenta ka tuig? Dugay kaayo, Roselyn! Pero, ok pa ang imong bisaya! ha ha… maayong gabii.
Agree, Bob, but I was commenting on what you yourself said … it seems, overall, more of a world-wide issue, brought to light directly by Feyma’s experience. Maybe yes, maybe no …
Thanks for the advice Bob, I will tell them I am Canadian next time… haha nobody hates Canadians. Well You know us Caucasians all look the Same Im sure they were mistaken about the nationality of their bad renter. You know i have had bad filipino landlords making that siraan ng puri, peeping tom neighbors, I am not flipping the bill to make the water running rewiring the entire house etc por libre. I dont mind lightbulbs minor stuff. If i have 3 months advance on a place I know ill never see a centavo again of that money i will have to burn it up. Im not advancing self priming water pumps Paying for a new roof etc.. Thats Overreaching.. All these things are a two way street. Its typical whever you go bad Landlord Bad Tenant. The Us and Them mentality, Categorically lumping People certain Nationalities is Simple Minded. Filipinos need to move away from that kind of thinking so do Foreigners. People are people it would be better to think of people in those terms. That guy specific no good.. not those Americans all bad( i know i rented to one only).
Note: Hardly Grammatically Correct Almost Never politically Correct
Not allowed to switch flags, Bob! It’s going to be the source of much head scratching, as we make our way from nation to nation; Canadian owners of a U.S. boat. All I can do is promise my American friends that I’ll treat their flag with respect, until we re-register under another flag. Perhaps I should fly “echo” “hotel” pennants under my U.S. flag, as a hint.
I appreciate how a few bad apples can embarrass a nation of decent people. When I was the deputy warden (Can.) in the Davao area, we had an issue with a Canadian who came to The RP each year for a month of debauchery. While the jerk was escorted to the ferry to Cebu at the end of an M-16, it was hard to live down the jokes & criticisms around the golf club & other social venues for awhile. Pretty much all one can do is tell the offender – when possible – that they’re embarrassing more than themselves & hope that they get the point. Still, when it comes to suitable accommodations, is it much different to the situation that you found yourself in, Bob? The noise you experienced from your previous neighbours was unreasonable and you felt that it was important to take a stand. If those same neighbours also rent living accommodations, perhaps they have become less willing to rent to Americans because of the clashes they had with you? Not your fault, but possibly this issue exists.
Ha ha.. he does make a good point! 😆
Lee,
Though, I don’t have much concept of money matters, such as the effects of the US dollar on world per say. I am currently enjoying the low value of the US dollar. Our Australian currency has never been stronger! Buying for us is a lot easier.. ..er.. overseas…
Loren,
Most of the 220 v countries I have visited do have different configuration power points! UK, Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia. France… etc…
Philippines is unique in this sense. They use power points imported from the US. I can’t explain why…
I have a friend who has his house wired with 110 and 220. He constantly has appliances at the electric shop for repair. He has implement a color code system which does not help. I told him to change the 220 voltage power points to the two round plug configuration but he doesn’t seem to care about his repair bill.. hehe
Ultimately 220 volt systems ares more efficient and came along after the US already started down the road with 110v distribution. One example of increased efficiency can be found in motor coil windings. The coil windings in a 220 vac motor are half the size/length of 110 vac windings thereby reducing resistance and energy needed to run the device.
John in Dipolog
Laughed out loud at that one. 110-115v has it’s uses; for power tools etc., but 22o should certainly be the international standard, as should driving on the left and spelling the word colour with a “u”.
😉
eI was raised an Air Force brat in the 70’s. Because my father literally traveled the world over, my sister and I were taught at a very young age very strict behavior rules while in public in another country.
Some of these were: Be polite to everyone. Remain quite till you know exactly what is happening. Ask for only what you need. Use what you are given. Don’t give a gift unless you know the person can give one back. Everyone is equal, don’t treat people like servants.
The point I would like to make is on the last rule. I cannot express how embarrassed I get when I see an American act like they are entitled to demand service simply because they can afford to pay for it.
We do it in our own country too. How many times have you seen some uneducated miscreant yell at a minimum wage burger clerk about mustard?
I am grown now and my job takes me everywhere. We are taught from infancy that America is the greatest country on the planet. I watch my fellow Americans daily with dismay act as though everyone and everywhere that is not US is beneath US.
AND THERE ARE MANY TIMES I DONT WANT.TO DEAL WITH THEM EITHER.
And it only gets worse with the ass falling out of your US dollar!
I’m FilAm living in the USA, retired USN (26 yrs.). Of all the years I lived, worked and interface with American, I can count with one hand my experiences as far as discrimination or perceived racism. Americans are straight shooter, they do not pretend, nor beat the bush. In the Philippines, discriminations are rampant and blatant if you’re poor, not connected and/or not related to powerful person. Rich, educated and powerful Filipinos do not like Fil-Am to live permanently in the Philippines, because we know how they operate, they want us just to “visit”.
During our visits (yearly) in the Philippines, we’ve experience first hand discrimination almost daily. My wife’s relatives are mostly very rich and powerful politician, income derived probably from stealing or corruption. They look down on us and quote ” I will never live in USA, I do not want to be treated like 2nd class citizen. At least the Americans sees the poor Filipinos as human being, but elitist Filipinos sees and treat poor Filipinos like animals.
Elites Filipinos sees African American as sub human, I know, because i heard them spoke about it. My point is American people are the most generous people in the world. Any cathastrophe anywhere, inclyding IRAN…the American are the first one to help, civilian or US Gov. Unless their behaviour is criminal, they are within their right to get what they pay for. One American w/wife living in the Philippines supports hundreds of extended families.
You are certainly right, Mark. The feeling that Americans are rude or obnoxious is prevalent in the Province and in the City! It’s hard to overcome at times!
Hi Michelle – for sure, it’s a bad situation, and caused by a few who cannot control their attitudes. Sad, sad…
Hi Michelle – Feyma and I would be happy to see you when you are here! Just let us know, and we’d be happy to get together!
Hi Loren – In Davao the housing market is very strong. Houses usually get rented quickly. I think much of the Philippines is like this, although I can only speak directly for Davao. So, in the situation here, the house is going to be rented out, no matter who it is. If they don’t like dealing with Americans, or feel that many Americans don’t meet their character standards, it won’t be hard to find a different, more acceptable renter.
Fully agreed, John. My only thing is that.. hey, I’ve done it myself, so it’s hard to complain. I am thankful that I moved beyond that “version” of Bob, grew up a bit, and am able to better blend into Philippine society. As Paul T. always says… if we don’t like it, we can always go to the airport and catch a plane home! 😆
Thanks, Papa Duck, glad you enjoyed the article!
HI Bob
Yes we are all fine. Thank you. Its no good telling me that my experience of Americans is wrong or ” a bit of a stretch”, like it or not that has been my experience. Great at home, loud mouths abroad.
It was me who told you that Brits can be the same, so no need to quote that. Maybe it is this mistaken impression they have of being superior to foreigners? I personally have had to tell both Americans and Brits abroad to be quiet as they are making fools of themselves.
All the best
Malcolm
Indeed, John, we shall see.
Hi Malcolm – How are you doing? Been a while! I hope you are well, and the family.
Come on, Malcolm – “every time” you met an American he was a loud mouthed complainer? I think that’s a bit of a stretch. Yes, there are Americans like that, but I don’t think every one, or even nearly every one is.
I’ve seen more than a few Brits causing problems here too! 😉
Hi Papa Duck,
Yes I agree with not getting up-set over things you cannot control. One will just go nuts trying to do that for sure. I at least learned a few things in my relatively short military time. One certainly learns there or you would never even make it out of boot camp.
I also think that “Only a dead fish goes with the flow”. There is a time and place to go with the flow and a time to swim up-stream or perhaps cross current.
I disobeyed an order only one time in my career and got a captains mast because of it. I will never forget that lesson and I would do it agian. Had I done exactly as I was told we would likely all be dead including the one we were rescueing. After being convicted in the captains mast I was asked to stay in the room after most people left. They said they didn’t want me to leave the proceedings with a bad attitude. What the Admiral and Captain told me was that “I did the right thing”. But they had to find me guilty as I did dis-obey a superior. But again they told me I did the right thing. The guy I dis-obeyed was one rank ahead of me and it took him years to get that far. He should not have been put in charge as he was not a good decison maker. We all make mistakes I know I make them everyday. But there is a time and place to not do as you are told. This happened when I was about 19-20 yeras old and to this day I still do not blindly do what I am told by “anyone”. No regrets.
By the way, there was no punishment and in only 2 years time I was promoted to the same level as the other guy. He didn’t like that! Shortly thereafter he was very very quickly transferred anyhow for stealing from one of us. You don’t steal from your shipmates !
Now, back to you Bob, I do tend to wander off. I think I am the original A.D.D. poster child.
I vote for the roosters by the way. We have planty of them here. I am just an old country boy anyhow. But why don’t they have “hen” fights ? Just dunk’em in water and they’ll be madder than a wet hen.
Cock-adoodle-doooo ………….. hahahaha
Have a fantastic day………………
Hi Ron – I’m not really talking about a house with a leaky faucet or a hole in the roof. The problems that many Americans bitch and moan to the landlord about is like the rooster 3 houses down that keeps them awake. Or the barking dogs half a block away. The landlord has no control especially when it is several houses away, and not in a property that they own.
Yes, I had trouble with my neighbors in Marfori. I waited until the lease was completed and I moved. I did not berate the owner of the house I was renting about it.
Anyway, roosters and dogs are part of the culture of the Philippines. If a person can’t handle the noise, then they should not consider moving here.
Thanks for chiming in with your comment, Ron. Nice to hear from you.
Peter,
The Philippines became a territory of the United States after the Spanish-American War. Under the December 10, 1898 Treaty of Paris, Spain ceded the islands to the United States for $20 million. At no time did the Philippines have freedom till July 4,1946. So America did not take their freedom.
http://www.nationalatlas.gov/mld/usacqup.html
I agree 100 percent with you Ron.. and yes i clinch my teeth everytime i hear that anti American sentiment, Most people Love their countries which are made up of People. You wont hear me say I love my Big Government and its Politicians.
Hi Pita Mike,
Glad to hear that you havent seen that behaviour in Bataan. I am from Balanga, Bataan and proud to be a Balangueño.
Would you mind me asking, where are you in Bataan?
Malcolm,
First let me say I am American. Born in Idaho and a Navy officer’s brat for the first 18 years of my life. Hence my wanderlust! I have spent 8 years living abroad and working for MNC’s. One of my hobbies is people watching. I enjoy figuring out what make people tick.
A quick internet search revealed an interesting find:
From this article http://www.mobilisa.com/highlights/newsA…
“Only about 23% of Americans own a passport and only 10% of those actually leave the country”
I will not argue how correct this figure is but let me say I believe it’s pretty darn close. This statistic indicates you almost certainly will not meet many “average Americans” here in the Philippines.
I submit that the 10% of the Americans who ultimately travel form their own unique bell shaped curve or population distribution with respect to personality type.
At one extreme of this micro-population are the utterly disrespectful, bossy, “Type A”’ personalities who believe they are God’s gift to the Filipino people. These are the ones who embarrass all American’s because they are sure they can beat the living tar out of anyone who challenges them in any way! Most of these guys are usually ex-military and can be found in abundance at the local watering hole!
At the other extreme is the nice guy who meets a girl online, or through an introduction, and honestly wants to enjoy the beauty and serenity that living in the Philippines can offer anyone who come here with their mind open and mouth shut! There guys usually prefer a coffee over a beer anytime!
Unfortunately the noisy, embarrassing Americans make a bigger, negative, impact on those around him causing rippling generalizations that affect the entire American expat community’s reputation.
I am not trying to make excuses for bad behavior but don’t lump all American’s into one basket. I, for one, am trying to make a positive impact here in my town. Ultimately I only feel responsible for my own behavior and do not accept generalizations.
If your ever in my neck of the Philippines… stop by and I will show you what real mid-west hospitality is!
John in Dipolog
Goodness yes us average Americans are ignorant, the average Australian is a drunk, the average Frenchman a lazy womanizer and on and on.
Hi Bob,
You’re an American who makes an effert to learn and speak the local language. How important do you think is being able to communicate with Filipinos in their own language as contributing to a shared rapport and understanding between the two groups? I wonder if an American would be so interested in needlessly complaining or going off on a rant if they could do so in the local language? I believe that many times, going off on a rant or constantly complaining in English is a kind of power play over a Filipino who might not be willing or able to join the dispute on an equal footing in English.
We can all make an effort to set better examples for ourselves as Americans, but I think that the patience and tolerance between the two groups is greatly enhanced by even a basic ability to speak the common language. Many real or imagined frustrations on both sides would dissipate with a better understanding through a shared local language. The language issue is something that is understated by many but shouldn’t be.
It goes without saying that the general perception held by SOME Filipinos that all Caucasians are Americans is the deeply-seated memory of American colonization of the Philippines, America’s defense of the islands in WWII, and their subsequent establishment of U.S. military bases, the legacy of which is still felt to this day. More often than not, it’s usually the folks from the provinces who are susceptible to this misperception, and would probably take another hundred years before the “footprints” of America disappear from the Philippine landscape.
LOL Bob,
Yep there are a few white people that are not Americans.
@ Bob you know we Americans are used to speaking our mind, so are expats from other countries. The “New Guys” have to learn to dull their tongues and gain some understanding…This is not an overnight process. Its hard in some places esp. some remote provinces to get what we consider 1st class service when the tools etc. Arent readily available even if they were could the worker afford them. Often these guys are doing the best with what they have. Another thing to consider We take technical manuals for granted Imagine working on some of the automobiles without any reference to tech data. Im hard set to do things my way the Proper Way, and it isnt always feasible or practical or available. People have to cut some slack to these guys they employ for a service and also the salty expat community kind needs to give a little guidance to the “new Kanos” If you remember back and really think, Probably there were times we made the very same mistakes. Though some are hard impossible to help and those kind may just have to learn the hard way unfortunately. I’ve personally done this for others and it made things a lot simpler for the newbie involved.
Dang,
My G/F lives in Pilar, Bataan right down from Balanga. She runs a internet cafe. Take care have a nice day.
I’m not just talking about problems with the unit, Joe. I mean, it is typical that Americans complain about everything from dogs barking to roosters and everything else. Those things are just part of the Philippines, and not within the control of the landlord if they are happening a few houses away.
John,
Totally agree with you. Human Rights will hold China back. Saw a story on TV about alot of college graduates there not able to find employment. Plus labor and cost of living is getting expensive there, which will make US Companies more attractive. I think China’s bubble will burst in a few years.
@John Do you think the Petro Dollar will shift to the Eurodollar ? I know you kinda study up on Economics of Oil futures.
Just what we need… 😯
❓ Not too sure about this, Dan. How would you come to that kind of conclusion. I never said any such thing.
I think China will become the biggest economy first before their bubble bursts… Just my two cents.
This ought to be a good movie. I love the earthtone colors employed in both the movie poster and the movie itself, as they bring out the natural beauty of rural Philippines. The movie trailer indicates an unbiased depiction of the horrors of the Philippine American War, but I doubt, though, that the movie would generate more resentment against present-day Americans than there already exists. Afterall, sons do not bear the sins of their fathers. or do they? However, although the movie is a fictionalized drama, the setting is factual, which does nothing but reinforce the long-held belief by most Filipinos about the atrocities committed by a U.S. Army hardened and embittered by years of American Indian wars back home.
I hope this movie about the Philippine American War will not be the last, because there is so much more about Philippine history that deserve world-wide awareness. Hand in hand with the Philippine American War was a lesser-known struggle. In 1899, the day after Spanish garrisons moved out of Mindanao and Sulu in defeat, the Americans came – a new foreign power to be resisted fiercely by the Moros or Mohammedans, as they were then called by the Americans. A Steven Spielberg movie about the U.S. Army’s pacification campaign in Mindanao and Sulu that led to the Bates Treaty, and. finally, culminating in an epic battle atop Bud Bagsak perhaps would be a good start.
Hi John,
I wish my fellow Americans would realize they actually leave their right behind soon as they leave US airspace. Just because you are an American does not mean your rights follow you anywhere you go. When you visit or live in a foreign country you live by their laws and customs. I think this is part of the problem and they do not realize they are being arrogant. I wish more people would think of their Miranda Rights and think of “You have the right to remain silent.” Because “Anything stupid you say or do can and will be used against you and every other American.” (I adapted the last one)
I was taught all my life to respect people and their culture. I know soon as I land anywhere in the world I am basically an ambassador for my country. I respect others and their traditions whether I agree with them or not. So my fellow Americans please THINK before SAYING anything.
Brent: When I worked in the Bahamas, I was there during spring break one year, sitting in a restaurant in Nassau (like a Bahamian carinderia, next to the street open air). A group of drunk college kids came along and decided to sit across the entire road, lying down in the street blocking traffic in both directions. Needless to say, there were some fuming drivers and the police arrived before long. The cops came, batons in hand, going up to the kid who appeared to be the ringleader…
“What are you doing here? Get up!!!”
“Dude, were just partying…”
“Come on!!! You know you can’t act like this back home! Go lie down somewhere else.”
A VERY tolerant warning that most US cops wouldn’t give. So what did this group of 20 idiots do? Walked around the corner and blocked another street.
Five minutes later, 25 cops, about 15 bleeding kids being carted to the pokey….
Boy, my national pride swelled that day… USA! USA! USA!
Hi Rusty – Yeah, I like that rating system too. Most people don’t use it though. 😉
Your population is over 300 million. You guys have lived in a vacuum where the world revolves around the US. which it did but the cycles are truly moving now and China, etc, will become the dominant world economies, etc. The average American knew/knows an embarassingly tiny amount about the rest of the world. Australia is confused with Austria, for example. It all stems from being the centre of the world and the general ignorance re the rest of the world.
Hi Lee… yep, I wrote about that last week, http://liveinthephilippines.com/2011/07/warning-for-american-expats-be-prepared
Without a doubt, Biz, Americans and many other westerners speak frankly, and don’t reserve their opinion. That’s quite different from the norm here, and can put off the local people.
I feel the same way that you do Bob. Being happy in the Philippines without knowing the local language is fine and acceptable for many, but in my opinion, it’s really just the tip of the iceburg to really enjoying, understanding and fully flourishing in the country. I feel that any effort to learn even some of the local language can be so rewarding in many ways.
Without a doubt, Lee…. the balance of power is shifting. It will be painful for many Americans.
lng have wre ko.
Hi SneakyPete – Oh, I am well aware, and have written many times over the years about my internal struggles to overcome this myself. As I’ve said, not only is it not an overnight process, I believe it takes about 5 years of trying to overcome it.
Three of My Uncles have Purple Hearts that they got in the Philippines. Filapinos do not speak Japanese because of Americans. I make no apology for being American. We gave the Philippines their independence. Rev. Bernie, Daddy Bern
Ha ha.. well, since it is owned by family, Loren, I think you’ll be safe! 😉
Hi Rusty – I think Kevin was talking about a dam… not a damn! Ha ha…. I know, typo… just giving you a hard time, my friend.
@ Rusty, I dont think the Filipina Mom was nervous her daughters because she thought
you were an American. Ang tanging mga pedophiles ko na narinig ng sa Pilipinas ay Canadian at mga Australyano What did u say? dai! wala kang pera sa food dai sumama ka sa akin saglit bigyan kita pera sa fud. Hindi lahat ng mga Amerikano ay Yankees ilang mga Rebels
well 🙂 Inside every foreign national is a little American trying to bust out
Katawa ko 🙂 lol
Hi Bill, I was stationed in Korea with the Army at Camp Humphreys, I spend time in Osan near the Air Base as well, I always thought the Koreans treated me very nice. I know some Americans who dreaded it when the 2nd Infantry returned from the DMZ, they would tear the town up, dring all the booze, harrass the women, then leave. These were mainly 19-22 yr old boys who were never away from home before. Unfortunately, the U.S. government does not punish offenders unless legal action is taken or a national incident occurs. Nobody likes drunken foreigners who disrespect their country.
But I agree, if you don’t respect yourself, then you won’t respect others. Like I said, I haven’t seen it in Bataan, and I hope I never will.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, Bill. There are some really interesting nuances there!
Since I have been in the remodeling business here in the USA for over 35 years now, I have worked on homes from all walks of life. It seems most complain after moving to American. I just finished working on a home for a couple where the wife was Filipino. she complained about every little thing. So, I guess after people move to the states they really open up how they really feel. I guess when they are in their own country, they just accept the way things are, but that is not how they really feel about it. I hear expats here all the time complaining about how bad it is here. Hmmmmm! So, we go through the same problem with expats complaining. It is less a problem here because it is normal to complain, I think.
Just my 2 cents worth.
art
Hi Jim – Several years ago, as I recall, I wrote an article that applies here. I believe that the article was about something like the top 5 mistakes I have made while living here, or something along those lines. It’s been too long ago that I don’t remember the exact title. Anyway, one of the mistakes that I said that I had made was thinking I was special, because that is how people treated me, and that it took me time to realize that I was no more special than anybody else. The truth is that Filipinos do treat foreigners like we are somebody special, and it can go to our heads. The key is to not let it get to your head too much, because you will end up making an ass of yourself! 😆 I think that really applies here!
I have never been there but is there booze in Saudi? I am under the impression that if you are drunk in Saudi you would be jailed. If so it probably explains the differance in actions there and in the Philippins. Take away the SM and a lot of people would probably act a lot better.
Well they got what they deserved! I hope they got a few more wack from the police on the way to jail! They sound like PRIME upstanding examples of the government schools here in the US. And my asawa wonders why I said when we have kids they would never go to a government school here in the US.
I agree, Papa Duck, even if we don’t want to be, we are ambassadors of our country.
Bob,
Americans should always be ambassadors for the US. It’s so embarrassing when americans cause problems in other countries. When i was in the Marine Corps we had a military exercise in Denmark in 1983. Well one Marine decided he wanted to Rape a local Woman. Well needless to say he got left behind when we flew back to the US. I never found out what happened to him. Take Care.
Exactly, Bernie! Thanks for sharing that, because your attitude is what I was trying to point out. You really helped a lot by giving such a great example! 🙂
I went to boarding school with a majority of Americans in Sweden and have stayed in touch with several of them. My standpoint is that most Americans are good and upright people, but a few have this really off-putting Imperial attitude that reflects negatively on the good guys and mind there are plenty of you. Such a shame!
Hi Bob
How are you doing. I have traveled to most parts of the world, and every time I met an American , I have to say they did seem to be loud mouthed complainers who didn`t care whom they upset. So when I went to the USA for the first time, I expected much of the same, I was wrong, I found that everyone was very friendly ( with of course a few exceptions), everyone seemed to love the fact we were British, and treated us very well. So therefore I have concluded that Americans are great , in their own country, but seem to misbehave when they are abroad, yourself excepted of course (;-)). Its a theory, what do you think? Mind you, I have often found the same thing with the British as well!
All the best
Malcolm
Bob, you got me thinking this is why I married my wife Jenalyn — she’s more American than Filipino in many ways. She’d likely be like the old guy complaining about roosters crowing in the residential subdivision mentioned above, and she’d definitely “complain” if anything in the rental was broken and needed fixing. Me, on the other hand, would let a lot of things slide because I don’t want to “rock the boat.”
Hi Tony – I don’t think that it’s far to say that most are painting with a broad brush. I think that nearly everybody, and I know I have said that “a few bad apples” are spoiling it for all Americans. I have never said that it was a majority of Americans or even a lot of Americans. I feel like I’ve gone out of my way to say it is “a few” who are acting badly, and thus giving Filipinos a bad impression of Americans.
When it comes to complaining to the government, I personally do not feel that I have a right to complain to such agencies, since I am not a citizen here, nor do I pay taxes here.
kurat ko sa imong pagka-prangka sa imong opinion aning butang bob, abi nako kid-sensitive tanan topics diri sa LiP hehe ” )
cheers,
Maybe it’s better NOT to promote the Philippines to americans anymore. I have witnessed very bad behavior by americans on several occasions and I was ashamed of my countrymen. Many of those tourists are losers in the US. When they come to the Philippines they’re given a level of respect they’ve never experienced at home. In return, they’re abusing the Filipino hospitality and reflect badly on the rest of us.
What, you mean that there are white people who are not Americans? I’ve been living here long enough that I actually believed it!
Hi Bob – Where I was coming from was, if Femya was to say to the landlords if the American offered a little more for the rent could they be persuaded to change their mind.
After all money talks and if property stays vacant for long enough it will deteriorate.
Just a thought.
Regards.
Jim.
No offense taken here, Scott.
You’re correct, Bob. The Philippine revolution against Spain started in 1896, two years before Commodore Dewey defeated Admiral Montojo’s Navy in the Battle of Manila Bay on May 1, 1898. Philippine Independence from Spanish rule was declared on June 12, 1898 by the revolutionary government headed by Emilio Aguinaldo, and the first Philippine Republic was established in January 1899. The defeat of the Spanish Navy in Manila Bay may have hastened the collapse of Spanish rule in the Philippines. But the point is, the Philippines gained its independence through force of arms against a colonial power in 1898, as opposed to the July 4, 1946 independence, which was GRANTED, and not fought for.
Hi Bob and Ricardo,
Not trying to offend anyone here. The simple fact is there are three sides to this story and all will be different. I made only referenced this date as to show when the US would consider the Philippines as their responsibility. I again apologize if I offended anyone it was not my intention.
Hi Scott – Filipinos would argue that point. They say that they had already defeated the Spanish before they were given to or sold to the USA.
Hi Scott,
I agree with you that some Americans catch the flack for other nationalities shortcomings because of Caucasians similarities in their features. But in this case of discussion here, the property owner probably knew it was Americans that they don’t want the house rented to, because for every prospective tenants it sure there would be discussion about its nationality before they could actually occupy the house.
Some problem I see here is perhaps cultural. You see Filipinos in general are not complainers. If they see some minor things not in his/her liking, they tend to just shrugged it off and say “pwede na yan” or it’s just fine. On the other hand other nationalities deal with it differently, they would complain to every little detail. The locals would just smile to be polite, ok if that is want you want, but deep inside the mind thinking other things, you know what I mean. So the next time there would be Americans or other foreign nationals for that matter looking for a house to rent, they just would not allow it, even preferred the property just remain idle without income rather than rent it and later having constant headache dealing with this foreigner. It’s simple, if you can rent the property to some other people less the headache, why choose otherwise.
Most Filipinos have high regard for Americans, possibly because of its shared history. Some bad eggs maybe is changing it in times, but I think Filipinos would not generalized some few people’s bad actions.
@Bob sometimes the drinking thing is an expat thing lotta expats drink whenever they get together and it becomes a habit. Sometimes the dating isnt so much that it was intentional seeking sex with many women its the inability to find a woman that you deem worth marrying. The younger 19-25 pursue aggressively the western men, a wise man would run from the younger ones. I envy these guys that find a good wife right off one that marrys for the right reasons. I took a break from dating and dating sites. Yeh i think maybe the dating sites may not be the best place to meet that Special Lady. I dont drink anymore Im losing the weight i gained. I am going to try a much slower approach to dating as well, Just make my list of what Im looking for and take it slow real slow.
BTW You did forget
3) cheap cigarettes
I don’t see anything ugly about number 1 Paul. 🙂 haha
Hi Anthony – It seems to be a pretty new thing, because like you, I really didn’t know about it until Feyma told me. I also agree that you or I could overcome the negative perception, just with how we present ourselves and interact.
hi tom,
you might be surprised, but local culture doesn’t bend too well when being demanded. try coaxing.
as a pinoy myself, i find that i get stonewalled whenever i demand & expect what i pay for. that’s clearly an attitude i picked up growing up here in PH, but then somehow there’s a HUGE segment of the population that doesn’t quite see that it’s a good thing, or an advancement from values of yesteryears.
since i don’t intend to leave, i’ll have to bear with the situation and nudge things along on my personal capacity. changing the world isn’t exactly a national pastime ” )
cheers,
We sure are on the same wavelength on this one, Queenie!
Amen!
Neal,
Couldn’t have said it better. Be safe!
Hi Pete – I am sorry, I can speak Bisaya, but I can’t speak Tagalog, so I really have no idea what your comment is all about. I would estimate that 90% of our readers know no Tagalog, so it might be best to post your comments in English.
thanks.
Hi Jaye – I would highly recommend that before making any decision to move to the Philippines for retirement, you should come here first and stay for a month or two to see if you like the place.
I will say this… the Philippines is much like the US was 50 or more years ago when it comes to race. The “N” word is used freely here when referring to black people. It’s not so much a prejudice or hate against black people, rather that is what the people here have heard, and they just use it too. I feel uncomfortable when I hear that. I will say that I believe this has improved in the past decade and is not as prevalent as it was before. Come give the place a look before leaping.
Good luck to you Jaye.
Jaye, Sister you and your man come to the Philippines without worry. I am a black man who has lived in the Philippines for many years. To be honest, the lack of prejudice that i know all to well from living in the US is non-existent in the Philippines. I tell my relatives who ask that question all the time. You will feel a new found breath of life without the prejudice vibes that only blacks can really articulate truly in reguards to the struggle and crap we have had to endure in the USA. My only issue is that i wish i had a bid wist or a spades group to play with. You feel me?!
Ha ha, yes, Dan, I would agree, it’s always good to look for the positives in any situation!
Two thumbs up Neal! While I do feel most comfortable in the Philippines I would NEVER give up my US citizenship.
Hi Mike – I am not really sure how much time you have spent in the Philippines, but if every single Filipino has been a friend, and every single westerner has been a decent person… I can only guess that your time in the country has been limited.
Neil,
No problem brother! Thats what Ex- Marines do hahaha.
We are taking young people from Poverty Families and helping them get an Education. The only way to break the poverty cycle. We both work as on to GOD and do not care too much what people think of us as a group instead of considering us as individuals. Daddy Bern PTL
Hi Bob,
I take exception to your not paying taxes unless you know some loophole here I don’t know about. I pay 12% VAT tax on almost everything we buy. They even had VAT on an insurance policy we bought the other day.
Plus we pay rent and in that rent is our money that our landlady turns around and pays her taxes with.
I consider myself a tax apyer here and that I do have a right to use the available agencies.
If you are in the U.S. it doesn’t matter who you are, citizen or not you get police protection when you need it and your are guarded by the military and so on.
Just another point of view.
We are taking young people from Poverty Families and helping them get an Education. The only way to break the poverty cycle. We both work as on to GOD and do not care too much what people think of us as a group instead of considering us as individuals. Daddy Bern PTL
I guess I was not clear. What I am saying is that I do not pay INCOME taxes. Yes, we have a right to use the services here like police, fire or whatever. However, we don’t have a right to tell them that they do it wrong, they should do it like we think they should and that kind of thing. It is not our country, and we don’t have a right to tell them how to run it. If we don’t like the way it is, instead of complaining, we can most certainly leave and go to where we like it better.
hello?
I agree 100% Bob. We do not and should not tell them how to run it.
I can’t say I would really blame a landlord there in The Philippines for not wanting to rent to Americans or for that matter maybe other foriegners as well. If they can get the amount they want from someone local or another part of the country without the possible hassle or complaints why not ? Who needs headaches they can avoid.
I can recall just about every time during my visits where I have had to remind myself I am not in the USA and to keep my temper and for that matter my mouth in check. That can at times, take a little or a lot of extra effort.
Rather than ridicule the way some things may be done in a foriegn country or to just come out and say the typical ” Ours is better ” routine, I try to remember some of the situations that may at first seem a bit off the wall to me. Eventually I will find out why certain things differ and the reasoning behind it. After I learn the reasoning some things that at first seem so different begin to make some sense.
From my visits to The Philippines, the times that I have had to remind myself that I am not in the USA and make an effort to keep my cool, are far outweighed by so many wounderful experiences I have had, some of which I have shared with readers on this website.
I think each and every one of us is in some ways are like a representative of our own home country when visiting or relocating to another part of the world. For me it is worth the extra effort that is somethimes required to leave some kind of good impression and if not that, not to intentionally leave a negative one. Why mess things up for those that follow.
Hi Bob, I have not Noticed any of this kind of treatment, but I have not been working with rental properties.
Bob, I was the one who wrote that about trying to find an architect. I did finally find one who I think I may be able to work with.
Hi Charlie – When it comes to used car dealers, I am not sure there is much honor to be found, no matter what country you are in!
Sorry to hear that you’ve had trouble with landlords, but I hope your current situation continues to be good!
Charlie,
Really enjoyed your posts. Very entertaining. I’ve learned over the years just to go with the flow and everything will be fine. No use getting upset over something you cannot control. Have a nice day!
Exactly, Goran.
If everything worked properly all the time, If everything was perfect Most of Us couldnt afford to live here. A 30 year expat told me that, I thought about it and said to myself yeh he has a valid point.
Hi Curtis – Yeah, I had not specifically noticed it myself, but when Feyma told me about her experience it kind of surprised me.
Thanks Bob,
I hope I didn’t paint a bad picture. I was trying to show two sides. I was trying my best to cut it short as there is more to tell and by far most of it good. I have run across some very honest car repair places here just as a for instance , that wouldn’t take my money to fix something, as they said I didn’t need it even though I thought I did.
All in all I have a lot more positive experiences in the Philippines than negative ones.
There is no doubt that most used cars dealers in the U.S. are surley not on the up and up. In 50 + years of driving I have owned over 40 new cars/trucks in the U.S. alone. I am just tired of supporting the auto companies so I have made up my mind to only go previously owned as they say. There’s those “they ‘folks again. Luckily I had enough experience in my younger years working on cars and in the military as an Engineman as we were called, that I know enough that is is hard to feed me too much of a line. I will not make the same mistake twice I am fairly sure. I look at all these experiences as learning curves. Knowledge almost always comes with a price. Gee I think I should have a least a couple of Doctorate degrees by now. lol
Have a fantastic day.
Smile and the world smiles with you. :o)
Good for you, Shawn. I believe that if we are mistreated we should speak up. But, doing so in a polite and respectful way usually works best. What’s the old saying about honey or vinegar?
I’m not only smiling at your sense of humor, but also ROTFLMAO reading your entertaining stories, Charlie. OK, Manok of the Sea, if that’s what you call yourself. 🙂
Hi Charlie,
Two decades in the Navy and you never learned how to swim? That brought a smile… Got to love those life experiences. Maybe some day I will tell you how I managed to draw “Pro-Pay” as a Tank Commander in the Army, Vietnam tour of duty, and have never ever actually crawled inside a tank.
Personally, I don’t choose to believe that every Filipino is out to get me.
Thanks you Ricardo,
I am far from perfect but I try and keep a sense of humor.
Laughter is one of natures best medicines and exercises. I hope we all learn to laugh more.
You can call me Charlie, you can call me Charlie Tuna, or just about anything, just don’t call me Late for Panihapon.
I have had so many nicknames people have given me over the years that I have to look at my drivers license once in a while to see just who I am.
Best wishes and keep smiling and laughing.
Someone above wrote about America being the most generous country in the world, they are right about that. But not because of the point I think they were trying to make.
America is able to help so much because they have the resources to help. As a filipina I can tell you without a doubt most filipinas would happily help in cases of disaster, but we spend most of our time figuring out how to pay for our food for family and our rent. We do not have the income to help as much as Americans.
We have a home that being built in filipines and if something is not like we want we will tell the builder, but it is how we make the builder know of the problem.
Pointing out something is wrong with the building is not a problem, being rude and complaining about things all the time is not wanted by anyone. When I first moved to America I live in apartment, there were plenty of things wrong and I pointed them out, but I was polite.
I would see American in managers office complaining and being rude all the time. So many Americans are spoiled and see the world through only American way. Well I am here to tell you that the world no longer revolves around America, thing change now.
Americans are mostly really good, but just like my filipino friends and family they only see the world through their countries eyes. This why traveling and living in other countries is good for people. My fiance has good business in America and good life, but he would much rather live in the Philippines because he thinks people there are nicer and more polite. He like the filipino culture better than American culture…and so do I.
I do think rich filipinos look down on everyone else in my country but you know what? I see lots examples of rich Americans looking down on the average man and woman in America. I think all culture have problems with that.
Hi Manok, glad you still have the same sense of humor some of which you undoubtedly picked up while you were in the service. I was also in the same canoe club you were in, except I stayed for 30 years, where were you station in your 4 years?
Semper Paratus-Everybody forgotus!
Mars
I think it may be a whole lot more painful for a lot of people from other places than it will be for the Americans.
Hi Michael – Thanks for stopping by. Haven’t heard from you in a while!
Yes, I know what you mean. Americans are hated, or barely tolerated in many places all around the world. Of course, the only reason I wrote about the situation in the Philippines is because that’s what this site is all about – the Philippines! 😉
Hi bob,
One thing is for certain, It is not all about money the landlord can get from the americans, I guess renter’s character plays a big role whether the landlord would offer it to americans or not.
But, many don’t! 😉
Michael,
I think you are a little biased towards americans. Yes there are bad americans, but there are also bad Europeans, Australians, etc. I think your a little off topic too with your negativity!
John, imo that is a very insightful and accurate assessment. I have lived in the Phils, for the most part, since 1997. I have seen the the whole spectrum of foreigners who are here, having worked and lived in Manila, Cebu, and now Davao, as well as travels to many other areas of the country.
On a perhaps related note, my wife has been told on two occasions (we only arrived in June) by sales staff while shopping in various malls here, that “your husband is so friendly”. When I asked her why they would say that -I was just being normal. She said that both times the clerks told her that generally the foreigners are unfriendly, and never smile.
I see that myself and sometimes wonder why so many of these people look so glum, or angry or disinterested.
Hi John
Thank you for the invitation, I might just do that! Didn`t say all Americans were like that, just said those I met outside the USA certainly were! (:-))
All the best
Malcolm
Kung matandaan i tama kung saan ko tandaan rin, isang tao nakaimpake sampung Filipino sa mga manggagawa sa isang yunit sa isang tiyak na tambalan. Dahil dito nagkaroon ng isang kakulangan ng tubig para sa lahat. Huwag isipin para sa isang pangalawang walang Napansin ko narinig ang lahat ng mga reklamo. May ay isang salita na tinatawag na libelo paninirang-puri nito ng isang tao na haltak ng tuhod reaksyon upang makakuha ng mapataob kapag someones sabi ng asawa sa iyong g / f hey ang iyong b/f barfines na batang babae mula sa Rennosaince. Iyon ay isang kabuuang katha. Ka wouldnt tulad nito kung may sinabi sa iyong asawa na ikaw ay ginagawa na sa likod ng iyong likod at nagsimulang isang lahat out ng digmaan. Nagkaroon din ng isang norweigan na naisip ito ay mahusay na upang sabihin hello sa pamamagitan ng paglakad pakanan papunta sa aking apartment walang katok at upang simulan ang nagbabala sa akin ang unang araw, bago kahit i-on ang ref. (Im hindi ng paumanhin tungkol sa aking reaksyon namin talaga kayong kasama okay matapos na), Pagkatapos i ipinaliwanag na uri ng pag-uugali ay hindi katanggap-tanggap. Tila isang tao ay nakapagpapalimot sa kanilang sariling mga faults na habang ang mga ito ay ayaw kinikilala ang kanilang sarili. (Ano ang tawag na ang rationalionization kumplikadong.) GEE nagtataka ko kung bakit nakuha niya ang galit na ay napaka-dramatiko. May tila sa gumawa ng isang bit ng kalahatan ng kanilang sariling sa ka: dating militar na uri ay uri ng isang, tulad ko kung iyong itinalaga ang uri B positibong ugali sa iyong sarili. Siguro dapat mong reference ang Jung tipolohiya pagsubok ng hindi bababa sa ito ay may 16 mga kalapati butas vs 3 sa isang posibleng D. lol ako ay malayang sumuko ang aking musika ay isang maliit na masyadong malakas sa isang dating videoke bar, ako ay mayroon ding isang bit ng pagdinig pinsala ibinigay sa malapit hindi ko malasahan ito sa isang problema, kapag i ay tatanungin upang i-down na ay i readily.It ay malinaw na maliwanag ilang nagkasala ng overreaching na may isang kabuuang paglisan o pagsasaalang-alang para sa iba. Ang ilang mga tao ay wala na maunawaan ang anumang bagay ngunit isang malupit na tono Kapag Ive inabandunang diplomasya dahil sa bingi tainga ko ay maaaring pumunta sa isang mas confrontational diskarte. Alam mo kung bakit Pilipino ipaalam sa paglalakad ng mga dayuhan lahat sa mga iyon? Dahil sila ipaalam sa kanila, na doesn’t gawin itong tama sa paggamot ng mga tao na paraan. Amerikano ay mas hilig upang ilagay sa na pag-uugali. Kaya, Oo parehong kultura ay maaaring matuto mula sa bawat isa. Ang American maaaring malaman ang mga kaugalian at ang mga Filipino sa maaaring malaman na mas papilit mapamilit tungkol matatagalan pag-uugali nito sa isang pandaigdigang mundo mga na wala iangkop makakuha ng trampled sa. Mayroon akong mga kaibigan na Filipino sa ilang mga kahit kapit-bahay namin tinatrato ang bawat isa na may paggalang, At karamihan wala mahanap ako ng malayo mahanap nila ako friendly helpful at sa ulit mapagbigay.
“Some people dont understand anything but a harsh tone When Ive abandoned diplomacy due to deaf ears i might go to a more confrontational approach. You know why filipinos let foreigners walk all over them.. Because they let them. Americans are less inclined to do so, Yes both cultures could learn from each other. Foreigners lacking could learn manners and the Filipino could learn to be more forcefully Assertive about intolerable behaviour its a global world those that dont adapt get trampled upon.” The reality of it is their is a large influx in immigration dealing with it, Controlling that influx is not my duty. At a local level locals have to deal with it according to each/every situation. All countries have immigration issues. Passes the mircrophone.