On Thanksgiving, we had some friends over to share the holiday with us. One of our friends who came over is a fellow American, and he was telling me about a movie that he recently saw on TV. It is called “Outsourced” and, as the name implies, is about the Outsourcing business, call centers, etc. This theme plays prominently here in the Philippines, as outsourcing is a big business here. I couldn’t say for sure how many, but you can bet that thousands of American jobs have moved to the Philippines in the past 5 years or so.
Anyway, my friend told me about the movie, and recommended that I see it if the possibility presented itself. A few days ago, Feyma and I watched the movie. I believe that the movie is classified as a comedy, but it was much more than that for Feyma and I. It almost seemed like a life story!
You see, the fellow who starred in the movie (the character’s name is Todd) had his offices jobs outsourced to India. Luckily for Todd, he was able to keep his job, but it became his responsibility to go to India and teach the people there how to take his place. Not necessarily something that most look forward to – training your replacement – none the less, Todd was lucky to have any job at all, because all of his co-workers were out on the street.
Well, when Todd moved to India, he ran up against all kinds of cultural hurdles. Things that he did not understand, yet affected his life and his work greatly. It took Todd time to learn how to overcome these hurdles, and to make changes in the way he lived his life to make things work out for him, and to train these new people how to get the job done. Watching this was much like seeing a replay of our lives when we first moved to the Philippines!
Honestly, when I saw the things happening on this movie, I could not help but think about this site, because there were so many things in common with what people will experience when they move to the Philippines. I really got thinking that this movie should be required viewing for people who want to move here to live permanently.
It so happened that the next day, after seeing this movie, I happened to touch base with another friend. This friend moved to Davao City around a year ago, as I recall. He came here to set up a call center for a US company. My friend, I’ll call him John, was very gung-ho, and ready to get going with the call center. He had dreams of making some nice money, and enjoying a new life in the tropics. Almost immediately, when he moved here, he started doing things that I felt were mistakes. He set up his business downtown in an area that I didn’t feel would be right for him. He moved into a house pretty far out of town. Commuting time would be a real horror for him.
About 3 or 4 months later, I stopped by at John’s call center operation to see how he was doing, and to take him out for lunch. John started telling me horror stories about how much he hated it here. He told me about how he could not find good employees. Nothing in Davao was right for his business. Of course, I knew that there were already dozens of successful call centers in Davao, but I chose not to speak up with that. John told me so many bad things. Some of the things he told me were very obviously mistakes that he was making – mostly cultural mistakes that were killing his business prospects. I tried to explain a couple fo things to John, but he told me that I just didn’t understand the business. So, I just decided to just say nothing to him, except to offer my sympathy for his problems. It seemed that he didn’t want to hear solutions, and it would only lead to ruffled feathers, so i kept quiet.
When I contacted John this week, he informed me that he had given up on Davao and left the country. It simply is not possible to do business here, he said, and he had lost a lot of money. I really felt bad for John, because he didn’t give it enough time. He did not take time to learn the things he needed to know in order to succeed here. Indeed, he dropped a lot of money here (at least in the 5 figures, possibly 6 figures in USD ) so, I do really feel bad for him.
I guess it is important to always remember, if you decide to come here – you are not in America (or insert the country where you are coming from) anymore. You have to change if you want to live here. You can’t change 90 million people to suit you, you have to change to at least understand them!
If you have a chance, watch the movie “Outsourced” and see how Todd deals with all the changes. I found some parts of the movie a little unrealistic, but overall, it is truly an educational tool!
Morning Bob,
A lot of Australian jobs have gone to India firstly and more recently to the Philippines. Not just call centres but some back office jobs they have in banks are a good example. There are losts of funny stories about how they train these people to understand Australian slang and some unique English words we may use here. I HATE it, Bob. It is not just the loss of local jobs, but you cannot, as the customer, get equal satisfaction from these people overseas. You cannot always understand them and they can't always understand us. One MAJOR reason companies and governments put people on help lines that can't speak proper english (even on help lines based in your own home country) is so that you get the sh_ts with them so much you never ring back the help line again. Therefore saving them lots of money. I am convinced of this, Bob. As an accountant I often ring the Austrailian Taxation Office. Very rarely do Iget an Australian born person. Normally it is a recent immigrant who can't speak fluently and knows even less abou the Australian Taxation System!
Maayong Buntag Bob
Knowledge can be very expensive. When I make my move to the RP I am sure there will be many expensive mistakes. I am hopping that I can avoid a high number of these mistakes by using web sites like yours to learn as much as possible before I move to the RP. My main concern is if I can listen to others so I do not make the same mistakes. 😉
One more thing Bob,
You feel for guys like John, however, in my opinion, he should have got someone like yourself and maybe even one or two others and sat down and discussed the whole plan. It is better to pay a healthy fee to an independent expert or two to get the local knowledge. What would that have cost compared to the 100k maybe he burned, plus the heartburn and a few years off his life? If you feel really sick you go to a doctor. If you ARE really sick according to him you'll probably get a second opinion. John did not go to the doctor.
AussieLee
Your comment reminds me of a problem Spint had when they outsourced the customer call center. When they out sourced the call center to Cebu in the Philippines they gave everyone in the call center a script to read. The script contained answers to the questions Sprint anticipated customers would ask. This worked fine as long as the customer only asked simple questions about there cell phone account. The employees had not been trained beyond the script and had no one to ask or transfer the customers to. Sprint soon identified the problems with there call center then did not fix the problems for over a year. By this time they had lost many customers and the company has never recovered from this mistake.
From a personal point of view, i tried to get a business going in the RP 3 yrs ago, one thing I think alot of americans or english speaking nationalities make is on the surface the RP looks very similair to the USA or OZ, mostly becuse they speak english and have many culturally similarities. but this is where it stops..abruptly! Below the surface it is DRAMTICALLY different. Case in point the word NO simply does not exist in the RP ( hhmmm didnt u just cover that in your SIR posts?? wish I had read that along time ago !!)
Its hard to run a business when you ask the guy if he has 1200 count of item "A' and he looks you straight in the eye and says "YES"…but he REALLY meant NO , but cannot tell you this to save face !! You submit the order fully expecting it to arrive in a week and 4 months later it does ! Business in the RP is often run by the seat of their pants. My recomendation to anyone wanting to open a business their is to not walk away from the idea…but to RUN like the devil himself is chasing you !!!
Hi Bob
Isn't most of what you do on the internet?
Hi Bob
Do you mind me asking if you had to obtain a mayors permit and license from the DTI?
Was that for me? 🙂
Hi Bob,As one of my favourite mentors quotes,"For things to change in your life,you must change first". In addition here is a quote from Culture Shock Philippines,"Most westerners who come to the Philippines are pleasantly surprised at all the western trappings that are so familiar,there is an elusive difference.The westerner finds he is talking the same language,but not communicating at all".(I condensed it a little),regards Chas.
Hi Bob,
I'm going to make a point of finding this movie to watch. I wonder how Lou Dobbs on CNN would review it?
Bringing up your friend John's problems is really appropriate, especially for people like myself who run small businesses here in the Philippines and for those who would one day like to do the same. A great many people fail to realize how difficult business is, no matter where you are in the world. Making business work in the Philippines requires an even different set of 'tools' and strategies to be even moderately successful.
Many people would agree with Brian that the best kind of business for foreigners in the Philippines is no business at all. I have been trying to build up mini-cases of successful foreign small business owners in the Philipines. In my experience, there are lots of successful foreign small business owners in the Philippines. I am pretty sure that the failure rates of small business owners in the Philippines is probably similar to that in other countries. The fact of the matter is that many small businesses don't make it. The reasons why are varied. But that does not mean EVERY small business venture should be avoided. Some make more sense than others.
My next article is another edition of the "They Did It" type. Previous articles of this type looked at different businesses including a resort operator, and an international school owner. The next "They Did It" article showcase a small business that is a 1-man operation! In every case one generally learns that business is hard no matter where you are in the world — the Philippines is no different.
Your business is a bit unique Bob, I would speculate that it is less reliant on outside sources and other businesses or governed bodies which create the biggest obstacles. Although you live there you are actually doing your businesss from "outside" there dont you think? Somewhat of a paradox if you think about it. Your right and I painted with a broad stroke , I do agree you can do business there and I have always said you pay for an education via tuition or experince and one best have the cultural experince to succeed there.
chasdv..that paragraph from culture shock had me ROLF !! bravo !!!
Hi Bob; I wonder if the key mistake John made was leaping before looking?
In my 6 months getting ready to move here I had a bunch of ideas on business. Most of these I have since completely given up on; as I can't see them being feasible here.
For instance I was in the art business in Australia and seriously considered setting up an art business here. Scoping around what was already here, I found a place called CASA. It's a family art center owned by the Bolipata family. The facility is exquisite. Large studios, gallery rooms, beautiful center house in the old spanish style, 500 meters to the beach. If it were in Australia or Europe or the USA this place would be thriving. It is dead. The children raised there are all in the arts but away from home in cities around the world.
This showed me that just because something looks like it should work doesn't mean it will work here.
Careful homework is a must but even more important is patient groundwork; from what I can see.
Hi Brian
Speaking of governed bodies I read awhile back about a fellow who was wanting to set up a business here and the mayor said he wanted 30%.
This is a great discussion!
In my opinion, Chas, Brian, Chris and Bob have all made some comments here that are absolute gold!
. . . speaking the same language but not communicating . . . failing to look before leaping . . . the importance of meaningful cutural experience and learning. . .
All of these phrases are packed with substance. Even more importantly, they all have meaning in life, not just business. You all now have me thinking of dozens of situations where these statements ring true!
Maybe these types of words of caution should be remembered before . . .
starting a business
building a house
making any sizeable investment
I'm sure there are plenty of other situations too.
Thanks, guys, for some really valuable points/tips we might all want to try to remember when living in the Philippines!
Hi Bob, The movie sounds educational as well as funny. Just ordered a copy through Amazon (Germany) as we require German and English languages as my wife is more comfortable listening in German. Ever thought of going into the movie business? Maybe you could produce a Philippine version 🙂
I just saw the movie trailer on YouTube. Looks very interesting. I can't wait to get a copy.
Personally, when I call customer service and realized that I reached someone from half way across the globe, I'm not too happy. They sound like robots and most of the time my questions have not been answered to my satisfaction but I must give credit to them for trying hard, even though I can't wait to end the call. 🙂
Hi Bob + Beth,I think Beths comment is common complaint,which is down to poor training in my view.However, it can be worse in other countries.My 90 yr old mum buys from a mail order co who have their call centre in India.If she has to call them or they call her she always puts the phone down complaining she cannot understand them,and my dad has to deal with it,regards Chas.
The main difference between you and the protagonist of course is that you chose to be an entrepreneur in your chosen country, where he accepted a position as an employee. The off-shoring growth of higher skilled jobs are growing much more rapidly than call center positions, such as accounting and IT administration and data centers as well as accounting and finance jobs. I'm voting for executive positions myself 🙂
The libertarian in me says that businesses are free to make the best competitive investments – the problem of course is that most of the mega corporations who benefit from outsourcing large numbers of jobs receive massive amounts of corporate welfare and favorable anti-competitive legislation.
Hi Beth
One time I called tech support for my router and I got a Filipina and she was able to help me fix my problem. I was amazed 🙂
Hi Bob
Yeah it was a linksys. And I did not even recognize she was a Filipina her English was flawless.
Hi Bob
If she is kuripot also she would be a dream girl. 😀
Hi Bob,
I saw the movie and it made me think of my future plans in the Philippines. It was a great movie also.
Ray, yeah i knew a guy who owned a bar the local policemen showed up asking for protection money…he pretended he had no idea what they were talking about and played like he was a total idiot ..eventually they left him alone. But he did pay the mayor off, how much I dont know.
Also, i just remembered a guy who was building a house outside Cebu , every wendsday around noon two policemen would show up for thier "protection" ( from getting things stolen) $$.
It is easer to learn the customs then to try an change them ..The first time i was there my wife lead me around like a little puppy .. 🙂 🙂 I've rode everything but a caribou so far …Too bad about John ..and nobody asked my wife for any money for fees or anything else .. had to buy a building permit … and I am learning a lot on this site about a business in the Philippines ..Thanks Bob your doing a good job …..Phil an Jess
Hi Brian
Did a building project in Ozamiz and we paid a guy to guard the place at night. After the project came along the sis in law would stay there at night. When I asked why she said Oh the materials are becoming more valuable.
Maayong buntag, Bob from rather cold and drizzly southern Spain. The UK industry cal centres have moved to or have been moving to India at regular
intervals. My husband and I had very bad experience with Barclays Bank call centre based in India as they do not actually bother to go deeper into your querries. They just pass the phone from one agent to another, making instant
promises that "your problem will be looked after…"we waited for almost an hour
once over and never got a proper answer/sservice. To this day, our problems with this bank remains. Eventually, my husband decided enough was enough.
We wrote directly to the general managers in the UK and literally played hell with
them, but still no reply. Indeed, the call centres can be a scourge. Much as I would like to admit it, one of my nephews does work in one of the call centres
as supervisor. When he had his first interview, the British manager asked if he
came from Manchester, England! I laughed when my sister told me about it because I do know that Manchester people have a distinct accent. Frankly, my
nephew, to be able to get the job quickly, put on an accent and presto, he got
the job. He seems to be happy in that job (the call centre is US-owned) and for
me for as long as he is employed, then I don't see anything wrong with it. I am
also proud to say that his brother and sister do speak excellent English.
Cheers!
Speaking of Barclays Bank, I deposited a check to my account on the 27th, it got cleared from the issuing bank on the 30th of Nov. but until now has not appeared in my account with them. I really don't know what the hell is wrong with this bank and yeah, the call center agent who spoke to me is of no help either, he just keeps telling me it should be there already in my account and doesn't seem to understand a word i'm saying.
Hi Bob, I wonder w/c part of the movie you find unrealistic. The kamasutra part?
🙂 & I wonder too, if your friend John moved his business to India.
Hi Chris, why do you think is the CASA "dead'? Is it because of its location, away from the city? Or simply because arts in the Phil has very few clientele?
Hi Bob! I enjoyed the movie! "Mr. Toad" is so funny! I see a lot of similarities of the life in India to that of the Philippines.
Hi Ray, I'm glad the Flipina tech support was able to help you. I have mixed call center experiences whether it's from India or the Philippines. Sometimes, they're favorable, most of the time, not.
When I get someone from India, I have a hard time understanding the accent. When I get someone from the Philippines, I know right away because of the accent (whether she tries to hide it or not). 🙂 What I notice is the lack of training and the cultural barrier and the lack of notion of customer service in most instances be it from India or the Philippines. 🙂 Well, sometimes and not all the time. There are times I could tell that the person has been trained well and other times, I just know that the person is a newbie because she kept putting me on hold for every question I asked (probably to ask her supervisor what to say back to me 🙂 ).
And they keep saying "KINDLY" Ma'm. 😆
Ha yha once again, Bob, great minds think alile. Mita and I watched that movie some weeks back and it has been on my mind a dozen times to mention it to you … glad you took the imnitiative and put it out to a wider audience. I highly recommend it.
A couple takeawys. As I frequently csution people, call centers per wse are niot as good a business base as even the government here makes them out to be. Call centers cmae here almost by chance as the cost of business in India went up, and they can leave the OPhilippines just as fast if someone else (China) underbids. A better business idea is the technolgly side of a call center coupled with actually manufacturing/delivering some product . Word to the wise.
Secongd thing, well pointed out in some of the comments here as well as the original post … I am some amazed by the number of people who have not built a business and run it in the US who come here with the idea of starting and running one here. More than 80% of new US buinesses fail in the first two years …. and it is much more difficult to operate here … my advice is if you want to run a successful buisness in the Philippines, start and run one where you live now … seriously you'll be glad you did … a business here can be rewarding but it is a tough place to start from scratch.
Hi Bob! Yes, I've seen the movie. I didn't pay attention though w/ the time element in the movie. I don't think the lead character spent only 3 weeks in India. I don't think the film wants to convey that idea. But this is coming from me who was more fascinated w/ the cultural side of the movie. You know Bob, sometimes in a week, I get to talk to call center agents about 7 times, 4 of which are fr India & the rest from the Phil. Although I had some "unpleasant" experience fr my kababayans, I have to give to some of them the fact that I was a little intimidated to them especially if I was asking for some technical support. Some really knew what they do, giving me instructions in english while I try desperately to articulate myself in english.
Bob: as you wrote about your friend, I must ask: had he ever lived or worked outside the States previously? The reason I ask is that it appeared his attitude was rather arrogant. I seem to remember an old column you wrote about someone coming here to "teach" filipinos the proper way to grow tomatoes, and they were a dismal failure. This arrogance is something I am constantly fighing at my company home office andan after several years of beating my head against a wall, I have finally started to change some attitudes after some near disaster incidents.
I suppose I can trust u guys not to blab this , ..but my last trip there I had a fantastic idea for a business…a SKI RESORT !!! DO YOU REALIZE THAT NOT A SINGLE SKI HILL IS INTHE RP??????? I'M TELLING YA ..ITS GONNA BE A CASH COW…
PS I'm open to investors !!!
Hi brian – Ah shucks… now you have ruined everything! I already have a crew installing ski lifts on Mt. Apo, and you've let the cat out of the bag! Should we just merge? 😆
Hi Bob and Brian
Speaking of skiing do you know what is the coldest recorded temperature in the Philippines? I heard they get frost in Bukidnon.
Hi Bob, The movie came in the post today and we watched it right away. Thanks for the recommendation – it was great! My wife usually doesn't like my choices but she fell in love with the movie. I'll bet I can get her to watch it again tonight! 🙂
Hi John in Austria – Hey, I'm really happy that you enjoyed it!