A few days ago, I got an e-mail from a lady in the USA. The lady is a Filipina, but indicated that she had been living in the USA for quite some time now. She told me that in fact, she had kind of lost touch with her Filipino side, and had actually forgotten much of how things are here in the Philippines. I certainly understood this, because Feyma actually went through much of this herself, and in the past year or so she has been on a journey of rediscovering her roots and her culture.
This lady went on to tell me that her nephew has come to the Philippines. About a week ago, his father heard from him, but has not heard from him since. They are worried about the young man (I don’t know his age, but I suspect he is in his 20’s). In their last communication, the young man told his father that he had found a girl here in the Philippines and had decided to marry her. He indicated that they would be married right away. After that, there has been no communication from the young man.
The lady went on to tell me that her American nephew was a cocky young man. She also told me, though, that he is a small guy. He has a big mouth, but she said that he doesn’t have the muscle to back up what he says. She described him as “very cocky.” Well, I found this to be somewhat troubling.
You see, the Philippines is not a place to be cocky. I have written before that if you cause somebody here to lose face, it could be a fatal mistake. Getting into a situation like that is not hard to do, especially when you have only been here a short time as this fellow seems to have been. When you haven’t been here long enough to understand how things work, and when you are already a cocky person, you are playing with fire. Shoot off your mouth to the wrong person and it might be the last time you shoot off your mouth.
I wrote back to this lady that I really didn’t have any way of knowing anything about her nephew (she didn’t even give me his name), but that her description of him left me concerned for him. I reminded her that this is not a place to have the kind of attitude that she described of her nephew.
Just a reminder to all readers. It is easy to let yourself get into a bad situation. Americans and other foreigners tend to shoot off our mouths and say things in the heat of the moment. Five minutes later we may have put things behind us. That’s not how it works here, though. If you insult somebody, an hour later you may think that it is all behind you, but for the Filipino who felt insulted, he may still be out to get you 10 years later. Because of this, be very careful. Our cultures are very different, and culture is something that is deeply ingrained in a person. I have done stupid things and said hurtful things myself to people, and I regret it. I try hard not to do that anymore, but it still happens. Thankfully it is not very frequent anymore. Just be advised to be cautious. If you feel yourself getting angry, walk away. I know it is against your nature, but just do it.
No disrespect to anyone here, but as an american woman who ha traveled, lived and spent a lot of time in the Philippines, I can’t relate to this anger thing. I’ve never found myself in a confrontation with anyone here. I find the Filipino people to be quite sensible, patient and good natured for the most part. Aren’t these types of anger issues the same the world over, be it with family, friends and neighbors?
Hi Bob
I have certainly seen people like this young man suffer for speaking "in the heat of the moment" and I hope he is alright. I have also seen people get in trouble by letting alcohol speak for them.
Bob
I have to agree with you that the asian concept of " saving face " is a very slippery slope at best and particulary so for foreigners that are probably not aware of it .
Many find this culture overly sensitive to any type of criticism in any form and i am not sure why that is so . Sometimes it can almost make one feel as if they are walking on egg shells . 🙂
The down side of course is it might make one less prone to engage with locals in the fear of offending someone . Maybe there should be some sort of " cultural sensitivity " class required of all imports ( foreigners that is ) 🙂
Hi Dan – Indeed, alcohol can be a huge contributor to getting one's self into huge trouble!
Hi Alan – That's what LiP is all about – a cultural sensitivity class for foreigners! Problem is that no matter how many courses we attend, we will always be still learning!
Bob
Sign me up for the "Cultural sensitivity" class. If you are submissive and not a "in your face" type of person it is easy to get sh- – on here in the U.S.
Man do I need help.
Hi Neal – In your face? I've been there, and done that. Honestly, it can get you killed here. Better start boot camp! 😆
Think before you speak helps alot too ….Phil n Jess
Hi Phil – You are certainly correct there. The problem for many people, myself included, is that we tend to engage our mouth before our brain even kicks into gear! 😯
Yeah thats a situation i,ve seen first hand and most expats don,t even realise they,ve done it before it,s too late. good luck to him.
I'm an American recently married to a Filipina woman. Just got back from visiting her family in GenSan. One night I went to a bar called "Crocadillos". I went there by myself- Big Mistake! Was having a drink, minding my own business, when this drunk, dirty muslim guy started making trouble with me? I didn't understand why, I'm a 5'10", 210lb. bodybuilder- lean. He was obviously no match for me, so I left the bar immediately to avoid trouble. He followed me outside and threw a handful of coins in my face. I pushed him away from me. He came back after me in a fighting stance ready to strike. I responded instantly by serving him a bare-knuckle blow directly to his face, knocking him out cold. As he lay on the ground looking dead, I walked away briskly to get into my car. I was then surrounded by a group of people intent on not allowing me to leave the scene. I pushed my way through the crowd with no resistance up until someone stuck a semi-auto pistol in my rib. The police came and I told my story. I had to pay $60 to the trouble-making muslim for his hospital bill, and we both walked away. So what I want to ask you is this- Under that circumstance, would that person be out for revenge knowing that he caused the incident???
Also- for any foreigner going to Mindanao (with some exceptions), my advice is this- AVOID any contact with muslims- in my experience they are troublemakers. Everywhere I went, (and I drove from gensan to butuan) on numerous occassions they provoked or otherwise instigated trouble with me and my wife.
Hi Bob,
Very wise words indeed,so many people cannot be bothered to do just a little homework before they visit foreign lands.
Embassy staff have a saying "most people leave their brains at home when they go abroad".
A recent case in Thailand,aussie lady arrested for stealing a bar mat.3 nights in 4+4mtr cell with 3 other women,then bailed.Fortunately she was persuaded to plead guilty and was fined $30.It appears that if she had not mouthed off at the police, she may not have been arrested.If she had not pleaded guilty she faced up to 4yrs in jail.
regards Chas.
Bob, True! I hope the young man is alright, though.
Ooooh, he better not have pissed the Filipina off or he'd really be in danger. 😉
Hi Daryl – I have seen it a ton of times, and I've been on the dishing out end too, shamefully. It is good to avoid this if at all possible.
Hi Joe – Firstly, I don't think that your situation has anything to do with the guy being Muslim. I have had some wonderful interaction with Muslims in the Philippines, so I would not advise to "avoid all contact" with them. That said, the best thing you could have done is to have just kept walking and ignored it. I know that is very hard to do, and I probably would not have ignored it, sometimes I am stupid about these things.
Yes, you need to be careful, because this guy could hold a grudge, he might feel honor bound to hurt you, and it is best you avoid the situation entirely.
Good luck.
Hi chasdv – Ha ha.. the Embassy staff is right on the mark this time!
Hi Michelle – Yeah, he could be in serious trouble if he got the Filipina mad.. no worries what her male relatives might do, but unleashing an angry Filipina is the definition of WMD! Right?
Just joking!
Joe,
I could see how this can get one swinging , I personally dislike hurting people but have no problem if provoked regardles of where i am. If a fight is imminent i still will not make the first move, i'll take the first hit, after that i feel its justified to do my best to 'win' …call me a wimp but in most cases its all bark and no fight with most people…besides I hate impact breaks of the finger joints…4 weeks of pain over an idiot is just plain not worth it, along with being the rich expat you can win the fight and lose the war.
Hi Brian – your assessment is right on the mark. Winning the battle may be very satisfying, but when the real war comes (whether it be physical, or even in court) the "winner" often feels pretty stupid that he didn't just walk away from that battle.
Bob, got that one right. My husband says he is not worried about anybody kidnaping me because the minute I yak they'd bring me back home!
Hi queenie – In the situations that I have been in where this happened it has been totally ME, not the others who caused a problem. Maybe I was at a restaurant and things weren't done quite the way I liked, or at the grocery store and the line was too long and I shot my mouth off. I caused embarrassment to the waiter or store clerk. Stupid things that I should have known better than to do. I lost my cool, though. This can cause big problems. Yes, Filipinos are very unlikely to start such a problem, but if you cause them to lose face, you can be the one in big trouble.
Thankfully, I have moved beyond this silly behavior for the most part. I am happy to have put that behind me.
I agree with what you are saying 100%. Looking over on the other side of the fence and lets just use America as an example, and using the Philippino never forget, hold grudge attitude, is this a reason why so many immagrate to the US and don't want to return? Putting aside the lifestyle how does the Philippino look at the "Ugly American" when they move to the States? Do they conform with the idea of forget about it, lets move on attitude? Myself I have conformed and my wife has helped me learn and adapt very graciously, love my Awsawa for that. I will live longer.
Hi Keith – Congratulations on adapting to the life here. If you have already adapted, you did so more quickly than I did, that's for sure. Not only will you live longer, you will be happy doing so too! That's the prize.
Hi Queeniebee,
Did you know that 90% of A+E incidents in the UK are now alchohol related,alchohol fuels many disagreements and many can't remember
what the dispute was about.
regards Chas.
Hi Bob,
I hope the young man is ok, but youre right, filipinos do hold grudges which is not right. Case in point, ME (ha-ha-ha) Believe me, am trying to change… but sometimes its too ingrained in the system. It didnt help growing up with mostly men in our family. There's like 2 girls in every 6 boys within our compound, my brothers and cousins.
Seriously, though, i hope they find him just having a good time!
A lot of Americans have a real 'anti-Muslim' mindset. Of course we have reason to, given incidents like 9-11 and the government/news nedia-fueled anti-Muslim sentiment that has been a huge part of our culture now for 10 years or more (since at least the first World Trade Center bombing). We'll all need to find our own way to deal wth our feelings.
Regarding the assult itself .. that the man insulted you and then actually perpetrated a form of assault on you is terrible and might have caused anyone to lash out … but you can't cold cock someone here, even if he so richly deserves it, and then expect to walk away. Frankly you got away very cheap, people have lost their lives for less, and that's the unvarnished truth.
That's one of the reasons I avoid bars and 'entertainment districts' like the plague, you can get into trouble so easily, often through no fault of your own. Best wishes that the rest of your stya here is happier.
Hi Bob,
Your column has alot of good advice. I must admit that Im a bottom line type of guy and Im usually quite frank. My definition of PC is assuming you can pick up a turd by the clean end. I have some work to do. I am learning to just keep my mouth shut
The good news is I have thick skin and rarely get angry.
Thanks for your column
Hi chasdv – I didn't realize that it was that high!
Hi cris – Yes, I also hope that the young guy is just enjoying his honeymoon!
Hi Dave – Like you, I don't frequent these entertainment areas at all. Trouble can find you no matter where you are, no need to go looking for it! 😯
Hi Hudson – Well, thank you, my friend. Very nice words, and I appreciate it. I am happy that you have enjoyed reading my writing, and I hope that I can continue to offer interesting and helpful things here.
Joe: You are very very lucky that worse did not happen to you. People have gotten killed for much less here. Regardless of the fact that you were obviously provoked, always keep in mind that you have very few rights here.
Muslim has nothing to do with it… Bar has a lot to do with it. I know many muslims here and most are just like anyone else: They want a good life. Bars can be trouble in the Philippines, which is why I tend to avoid them, with certain exceptions. Alcohol can make people aggressive, and, given the fact that you are a foreigner, you will always lose, whether or not you "win" the fight.
You are also very lucky that this guy was not related to the police or a local official (You NEVER know). You could have easily ended up deported, in prison, or… dead at the bottom of a rice paddy…. without anyone ever knowing what happened to you.
Take care and be careful.
Hi John Miele – Very good advice!
Hi Chas, I'm sure that's true that drinking is a big factor in many confrontations.
Philippines is not the place to be cocky at, people get beat up or killed just because the way how they dressed up or talk. I've witnessed Filipino teenagers imitating American hip-hop getting beat up in the streets of Manila. I've seen drunk Filipino loud mouths ganged-up and stabbed in a bar. Staring somebody in the eye is also a big NO NO, some of these idiots take them as "staring at them with malicious intent". But trust me, most educated Filipinos doesn't harm anyone due to these petty reasons. It's the society's bad eggs that do these crazy stuff, the underworld characters, street bums, corrupt policemen and military drunkards….whenever I'd go to a bar, I wouldn't dare look or stare anyone in the eye, I'll just keep my head low and my eyes focus on the ground it always work…
Regarding Filipinos holding grudge, this is soo true, Filipinos are big grudge holder. You could rough them up in round one but it's not the end of it. There will be round 2 and they will comeback with his buddies and if doesn't work they will get weapons and if it doesn't work either they will wait for you in the dark. Some people resort to witchcraft to get back at their enemies..LMAO….
Hi Atong – You are so correct on what you say. And I fully agree that most Filipinos are very kind hearted people, there are a few bad apples, as in any society, who will do you harm, unfortunately.
Hi Bob,
Thank you for a wonderful eye opener on tolerance or else!!!!
I think I will need to take an anger management course before I immigrate. I have very little tolerance for fools,wife beaters and people who hurt kids and animals. It is something I feel very strongly about. I am now thinking tha I will need to go to the anger management courses a couple of times and maybe even then I will need to wear a gag.
How have you managed to cool the "rage"?????
Joe,
I can't help but reply…
Bob, is absolutely right. The guy's attitude has nothing to do with him being a Muslim. BTW, I hope you realize that Muslims are the followers of Islam religion. Anyway, it's just like you're saying don't do business with Jews because they're shrewd. These are judgmental and ignorant comments.
Good luck!
Wow must be great to be an Ameriican in the Philippines called "Joe"!
On a serious note though, if you are going out at night, or places where there is a lot of socialising and drinking, take a chaperone, or preferably more than one. I have been to a lot of places where not many westerners have, but always have plenty of insurance.
Hi Tyleen – For me, learning to control my outbursts just came from experience. Whenever I would do something stupid like that, without exception, I would feel bad about it later, realizing it was nobody's fault but my own. That tends to offer a cure, or at least it has for me. I'm not perfect, none of us are, but I've managed to greatly reduce such incidents.
Hi Lea – thanks for sharing your opinion.
Hi Anthony – I think there are a lot of Americans here named Joe! I hear his name almost every day!
HI! Bob,
My advice is just stay away from any bars at night or if you guys want to go out don't forget to bring a chaperon , i mean one of your pinoy relatives and you will be fine, filipinos adored foreigners and they're just happy to see them walking around your neighborhood or in the malls.
oh btw, i hope that young man would be fine and safe….
Hi wildcat75 – I also hope that he is fine, and I think he probably is. For me, it is very rare that I go out at night, I enjoy staying home with my kids. In a year, it is probably rare that I go out at night even 3 times in a year. I guess I am a homebody.
kamusta bob
i also had a few times in mindanao that i had to walk away as well.sometimes better to be good.or i should say better to lose face then lose life.
and by the way my filipina and son here and im sooo happy now.
oh bob i will never leave this site on lip.i love it
salamat bob
Hi Ron – I am very happy for you that your wife and child have arrived! The long wait is over for you! Good luck with everything, my friend.
Good advice John ..and it helps to have a couple of judges and chief of police as godparents too 🙂 .. Phil n Jess
Hi Phil – Ha ha… WMD, my friend!
Hey Phil – It's not what you know… it's who you know! 😆
Yea Bob sit at home enjoy the family they soon will be grown-up an gone ( in a Filipino since)..Phil n Jess
con grat. on the family Rom W ..have a wonderful time teaching them the American way …Phil n Jess
I've read all of your comments, Thanks to everyone. But one point to address, because there may have been a misunderstanding regarding my feelings about the muslims in Mindanao. Here in the states, I have muslim friends, so I don't necessarily dislike someone because they are muslim. To be honest- it was other Filipinos now living here in the States who warned me about the muslims in the Philippines. They seem to have a very deep resentment for the muslims, and they all cautioned me not to go to Mindanao. This will be the last time I inject religiously argumentative details in any further communications. It's just too contraversial.
Hi Joe – I am sorry if you felt bad, but I didn't feel that you were slammed, just advised that the religion was not the reason for the man's poor behavior. Like you having Muslim friends in the States, I have a lot of Muslim friends here in Mindanao myself. It is true that a fair number of Filipinos are very anti-Muslim, but that doesn't really mean that we should adapt such an attitude ourselves.
Good luck to you, and I am happy that nothing further than a $60 payment came from the incident.
Hi Bob – As I like to say, "Never miss a good opportunity to remain silent!" 😉
Hi Paul – Being silent is your right, after all! 😀
This reminds me of the time I was in a branch of BDO Bank. There must have been 100 ATM machines but I later found out they are not connected on one of the international networks so International ( World known name ) credit cards would not work. I later found out other international visitors had similar problems like this. Well, there is one branch of BDO that can handle cash advances if you go inside the bank. Although I was running what I considered a bit low on cash but not out of it, I went for cash advance as I had a few times before and was told their " card Swipe Machine " was not working and someone from Manila would be there in a couple of days to repair it.
All the way from Manila to Iligan City to repair a card swipe machine ? ( hour and a half air travel and hour and a half road travel ) .
What would you think ? I have mentioned this before and Bob Martin told me this is typical of how things work in the Philippines but at the time I thought " do they really think I believe this ? "
As an American you can understand I was a bit more than " frustrated " and start rambling on with my mouth whil trying to keep my cool as best I could. From reading about situations like this on this website, I knew that if I kept on talking I was sure one of the security guards may have " politely " shown me the door. I apologised to the bank people for my frustration, shut my mouth and got out of there .
I did go back the next day just to see if I could get a cash advance and yes, the next day their card swipe machine was working, what ever happened to the 2 days from Manila ?
Although I had a great time there and look forward to more, there are times when I just have to remind myself " I am not at home " . Thanks for this memory refresher article Bob.
Hi Bob NY – Oh yes, I remember when you were having that problem with getting money in Iligan! You e-mailed me and I told you to just take it as the way things work here! And, that indeed is how things work here. Good for you that you were able to let it pass, Bob!
I wonder if the people in the bank thought , or said to themselves after I left ? " Krazy Kano " ? Well, frustrating as it was at the time, I can laugh about it now.
Hey Bob, You may not have conformed as fast but You did not have lip to read daily for a year before you got there. hehe
Bob,
Understanding about being respectfully in another person's country and saving face and all. But is there no chance for reconciliation once you have put your foot in your mouth? I mean like.."Hey, dude, sorry, I accidentally hit the idiot button on the front of my forehead…very sorry. It would be hard to enjoy oneself in wonderful Philippines without having to look over your shoulder for the rest of your life.
Hi Bob NY – You can bet on that! 😉
Hi Andy – You know, writing LiP has really helped me conform more quickly, because sometimes I have to think twice about my actions, and relate them to the things that I have written. It can help me a lot.
Hi John – Yes, it is possible to reconcile, as long as it is done honestly, and before things go too far.
Bob, testing Gravatar. I change my e-mail address above. Hope this works. Thanks!
Hi David – I see a guy there, but surely that can't be you? The guy is so gwapo! 😆
well he wasnt a true devoted muslim because they would never be in a bar and be drinking liquer in the 1st place! that stuff is the only reason i have to give pause about moving to P.I because your not in kansas anymore thats for sure!
Hi mike – I was thinking the same thing. Of course, people of all religions do things that are against the teachings of their religion, so who knows. But, an observant Muslim would not be in a bar to begin with.
I know a guy who intentionally stiffed a taxi driver of 10 or 20 pesos because he wanted to make a point to the taxi driver to not try and take advantage of foreigners. As Bob says "he may still be out to get you 10 years later".
James
Sir BoB, paraphrasing what Rusty once said, living in the Pines is like living on Mars only that we have oxygen here. Never forget those words, they could save your life.
I just visited CDO, only 90 kilometres away from Iligan but it can be a world apart in the way people think. I left the hotel at night only for a short time on my own to buy some smokes, only for the third time alone in three years. It took less than 5 minutes for trouble to find me. As I stopped to light up and look around, a young guy ran over to me and said do I want a girl? I said quite truthfully "dili salamat po, Iliganas are much prettier than CDO's!" Then he turned to me, shook my hand and with the other hand made the shape of a gun and put it to my head. It reminded me of the T-shirt I saw the day before, it read " I am a Philippino – TRUST ME!"
I consider myself lucky, I've only been involved in about 4 incidents over 3 years involving mainly young packs of guys.
I will not travel alone ever again and my family never let me out of their sights but sometimes I feel like a prisoner and need to get some space.
Hi Boss – I find it shocking that in 3 years you have been alone only 3 times. I go places alone every day of the week. I can't imagine being with somebody everywhere I went. Like you describe at the end of your post, I would feel like I was in prison under those circumstances, and I would not live with it.
Now, with that said… your statement about girls from CdO not being pretty enough… I can understand why you ran into trouble. Why would you say such a thing? Even if you feel that way, it is not a nice thing to say to somebody in CdO. A statement like that is an insult to the person you said it to. Why not just say "No, thank you" or "Dili ko, salamat kaayo" to the fellow and walk away?
In many of the Filipino websites I visit regularly, especially those having to do with cities, at times it appears there is some kind of competition between posters of different cities. I am sure we are all familiar with the " Mine is Better that Yours " routine. In consideration of that, I avoid commenting on one city or place being " better " than the other or for that matter trying to compare my own country with another. They are all different places. What fascinates me more than one place or thing being better than another , is the reason for things being different in one place or another. If or when that reason can be determined there is usually a reasonable explanation for the differences.
True to the title of this article, many times it is best to " think first " talk later or, watch your mouth. Yes, at times I have to remind myself of that too.
There is truth to what Bob Martin posted about the Filipino culture of dwelling on something. And it can be a good or bad thing. Filipinos can dwell on a negative/offensive gesture given their way, but they can dwell on a positive/kind gesture as well. With Filipinos, something almost always takes a while.
Hello The Phil Guild Guide – Maybe next time you comment, you can tell us your name too? Or, do people call you "The Phil Guild Guide"?
Yup, that's my identity in the blog spectrum — The Philippine Guild Guide.
Hello The Phil Guild Guide – Whatever floats your boat, I suppose. What names did you give your kids? 😆