I’ve written a number of times in the past, I am sure and certainly on my PhilFAQS blog about the abysmal mail service here in the Philippines. Even though we Americans sometimes almost make a comedy career out of complaining about and dissing our dedicated US Postal Service workers (anybody remember Men in Black II?), your attitude will almost certainly change if you make the move to the Philippines. There is a postal service here … (The Philippine Postal Corporation) they go by the name PhilPost and for a few things they seem to do quite well. But if you live in the provinces, as I do (even though only a few kilometers from the Metro Manila border) mail service is a luxury you are liable to miss a lot.
Not long ago, our bank, BDO, sent us an unsolicited credit card for my wife and an add on card for me. Unlike the US, there’s essentially no recession and no credit crunch here, (so far). I never applied for a credit card in the Philippines and I essentially didn’t want one, because the consumer protection laws here are totally different than in the US … in the US you essentially can’t be defrauded out of anything with a credit card, here, if you, for example lost your card, and someone used it? You shoulder the whole amount.
But anyway, the bank sent, so we “bit” and decided to keep the cards. We activated them and used each one just to be sure the system worked. Then, it occurred to me after some period of time had passed, that we had never gotten a bill. After a long series of phone calls … all at our expense … we finally got a dismissive response from a BDO supervisor, “Oh we don’t send bills out to the provinces, you will have to call every month to find your balance, it’s your responsibility to find out what you owe.”
You can pay at the bank, if you already know your balance, because the banking system and the credit card system are not able to talk to each other, or you can allegedly check your balance via your online BDO bank account (in 6 months I haven’t been able to get the credit card registered so it shows up in my on line account), or you can pay “in the blind” at some bill pay centers … but a real live credit card bill, online or off line … “not in the provinces, sir.”
Our account is dues on the 27th of each month, so on the 26th of April I called, ascertained the balance, went to the local branch of the bank, filled up the required forms and paid the balance due from our bank account. I don’t have a checking account here, that would be another whole blog post in itself, but with enough prompting and a multi-part form or two, the lovely ladies at the service counter will tickle their keyboard for you and transfer the funds electronically.
When I got home from the bank, I saw something white sticking in our “people” gate as I was opening the driveway gate. We don’t have a mailbox at the gate because I have only seen a mailman four times now in nearly three years … few other people on our street have a mailbox either. What was the white paper?
A real live credit card bill fr0m BDO, complete with something I have never seen yet since I moved to the Philippines … a bright red 4 peso officially approved PhilPost postage meter stamp on the corner of the envelope.
It appears that while I was away at the bank, a real live letter carrier came by and put a real live official piece of legal PhilPost delivered business mail in my gate.
I’m going to the mall right after I post this, perhaps I should buy a mail box to try to entice the letter carrier back next month? Maybe if I make it like the one in the picture people will stop and take pictures of it?
I dunno, but I know this, if the letter carrier shows up again on 26 May, two months in a row, I’m going to run, not walk to the Lotto ticket counter at the corner store and buy a handful of lucky tickets.
Many of those things we take for granted in the US are a real blessing. When I see US news shows here in the Philippines i sometimes get a little depressed because the talking bobble heads on camera make it sound as if the whole country has fallen apart. If you’re one of those folks back home who have heard so much gloom and doom you are feeling bad yourself, shake it off and smile a little bit. There are a lot of things to be thankful for in the US, one of them even is getting your bills delivered *smile*.
Hi Dave, You had me busting a gut I was laughing so hard!:-) What a procedure! Canadian mail delivery is similar and as good as American. Over here in Europe they put both our countries to shame. We get mail delivered to a box in the lobby of the apartment building. If something is too large, they come up on the elevator and deliver it to the door. If we are not home, they leave it with a trusted neighbour.
I just sent a Registered parcel as a gift to a friend in Bacolod, Philippines. She had to go to the Post Office and pick it up. When she got there the Philpost employee said they had to open it before they could give it to her, which they promptly did.
It must be fun living down there – so much to learn! 🙂
My friend gave the mailman a xmas bonus last year , a week later another mailman appeared asking for his xmas bonus. Turned out the second guy was the actual mailman for this area and the first guy was just scamming. We asked if he realised the first guy was an imposter and My friend said he had no idea because the mailman came so infrequently he just didn,t know what he looked like anyway!
As of right now My wife Jess has me send everything to her uncles home cause he gets his mail delivered as soon as it come to the post office ..So using his name gets me good mail perivalages…Dave I like your mailbox picture ..maybe I can get one with the Philippine flag on it too ..looks good ..Good luck on your postal adventure Dave…Phil n Jess
I have sent several packages to Iligan City and Cagayan De Oro from New York. By Air Mail it takes about 3 weeks to get to the destination post office. I have traced the routing however, which I believe to be correct. International Mail arrives in Manila goess through Customs then to Manila processing center ( mail sorting facility ), then takes 5 days to get to the processing center in Cagayan De Oro which also processes mail for Iligan. To me it seemed like a long time just to get to the designated city post office, compared to USPS standards or when I have mailed things to the UK ( 5 to 7 days for a package door to door ).
I dont think any of the recipients of these packages were notified by the post office and after the 3 week time period I notified the recipients to start checking with the post office there. Once I called the Iligan City post office from New York, they put someone on the phone that was rather fluent in American English and after a brief wait he verified that a package I had sent was there in the post office waiting to be picked up.
One of these days I am going to look into more about how the postal system works in The Philippines. Fortunately anything I sent has not been " lost " .
Hi Dave, your article is really funny. When I arrived here in late 2007, BDO promised me a card where I can get BDO/SM points. I filled it up and they sent it in. Now, it has been almost 2 years later, I still don't have the card. I once asked, and they told me that all BDO transactions are centralized in manila. They sent the cards out by mail and several got "returned". They didn't even attempt to "resend" and therefore I must apply again which I did. Like I said, I still don't have it. If what you are saying is true, that it is even difficult to get mails delivered by the post office, why would the post office even bother to "return" mails? Something doesnt sound right with what BDO said. Anyway, I give up and got the card straight from SM – had it within minutes.
The Canadian EMbassy in manila does not use the local post office. If you need to send anything, you must call the embassy to get them to send their own trusted carrier. I think a "number" is given to you for their own control purposes, and they have their own call center you must call. Wise move!
Hi John,
Actually the international mail works much better than the domestic mail, at least where I live. I received a big expensive package from Australia and that was one of the few times the mailman actually made a physical appearance at our house, to drop off the post card notice that the package was waiting at our local PO. The domestic situation is, I guess, a two-edged sword.
On the one hand, I don't really see how businesses can operate, not being able to send out bills reliably.
On the other hand, it makes for a nice little small business segment all over the country of messenger services that mainly just deliver bills, for a fee. Our home owners association uses part-time, (paid by commissions on the amount collected), local residents to read water meters, calculate and deliver water bills and then collect for the water … works pretty seamlessly and gives some association members a useful little part-time income.
Ha ha yes that made me laugh. If the mailman were to somw up for Christmas, bnased on his past performance, I'd give him a piece of my mind rather thna a bonus.
But we had a similar thing happen with our trashmen. A guy, who I recognized as aregular trash crew memeber, came buy handing out envelopes … we get great service and the fellow handing out the envelopes was one of the nicest and most freindly on the crew, so I happily stuffed a couple hundred pesos in the envelope and wish him Merry Christmas. A few days later, the truck came on it's regular pickup and the driver was getting out and leaving envelopes. I met him at the gate and kidded him about trying to collect twice … he seemed not to understand and just got back in the cab, looking a bit embarrassed. Later I found out that the guy I had paid originally had been fired 15 December and had gone around to who knows how many houses misrepresenting himself as collecting for the 'real' crew.
It's just part of living here, I gave the real guys a couple hundred as well, after all I am a millionaire (in pesos anyway);-)
Well you can easily get something like that made and painted anyway you want, there's a guy right at the end of the next street to mine who is a real artist in sheet metal.
Hmm, since I get US mail (by private contractor) as well as Philippine mail, maybe I should make both a US and a Filipino flag mailbox and mount them side by side…
Yes the international mail is definitely handled alittle better than the domestic side from what I see. A guy I know who has been in the Philippines for many years has apost office box at his city's main post office. he claims hs mail, both foreign and domestic has never been a problem … as long as he goes to the PO and picks it up. If I didn't have US mail service myself, I would probably find out hwich large post office near me has boxes to rent and use that route … but in today's world, dead tree mail is less important to me. On the US sid eof my life, I can go completely paperless, and it is likely that the Philippines will move that way in the future.
Hi Ellen,
Yep that is exactly the card deal that was involved. Because my wife already had an SM Advantage card at the "Prestige" level (by a ref, a bed, a couple aircons and you can be "Prestigious too ;-), they sent a credit card for her linked to a new Advantage card and a 'piggy back' credit card and advantage card for me. It's actually quite convenient, becuase you get SM Bonus points for purchases other than just SM … there's an annual fee after th first year but hotels,air fare and such will make up for the fee I think.
"If only" we could gte a bill LoL. Usually when you hear someone say "I have trouble paying my bills" you think of a person short on cash, but here it often means you have the cash but can't get anyone to take it.
The US Embassy here does most of it's work through either Delbros for visa delivery or Air21 (the FedEx franchisee) for passport renewal pickup and delivery. Very prompt, secure and courteous. When Air21 brought my new passport to me I was away from the house. The driver kept it with him, went home from work and came back at 7:30 PM on his own motorcycle to deliver it … you can't get service like that ij the USA, that's for sure.
Dave: Here in QC, the mailman drops off all the mail to the compound guard, who then sorts it and delivers it as part of his duties. Packages and registered mail have a notice for us to pick up at the post office. Last one, it took me three visits to get my package because the post office staff were on break or lunch.
So, because it was a registered letter, I waited. They took me to a waiting room, 4th floor, which was next to the "secure" sorting area. It was fascinating. The US Post office is largely automated, with machines sorting, etc., AND, in this day and age, there is no way you would even be allowed NEAR US Mail if not a USPS employee. Here, there were literally dozens of pigeonhole bookcases, floor to ceiling, with thousands of little slots, made out of mahogany, no less, and looking 100 years old… everything sorted by hand with dozens of employees sitting in front of their case with a big pile of mail in their laps. It was truly a trip back in time, before computers or anything else, and, to my perspective, utterly fascinating (It's how I imagine the New York City Post Office looked 80 years ago!)
Hi Dave, since 18 years I am renting a post office box at the Central Post Office in Davao City. We get our mail faster – and, I think, we only miss a few letters during the last ten years since living here for good. "Important mail" will be always sent by special carriers, such as LBC, Air 21 etc. – not even a single complaint yet during the last ten years. Mailmen in the Philippines? "No comments"… Sorry guys.
I used to have similar problem with my mail delivery here in Marinduque. The local post office is in downtown Boac. The beach house is about 9Km away. The mailman would ride his motor cycle and deliver the mail. If he feels lazy, he would wait a couple of days or until he has several mail to deliver in the neighboring barangays. Today, he does not wait, he deliver it the same day. How did his happened? I befriended the mail man, giving him a drink, the last time he delivered the mail and found out about his personal life and family. We are now good friends.
I came up with a reasoning for this ( lack of automation ) when visiting a Bowling Center that still uses pinboys and not automatic pinsetter machines. The cost of labor in the Philippines may be the most cost effective way of doing things instead of installing automation equipment and having to pay for maintenance, parts, and repair of said equipment.
While in a bowling center that still uses pinboys ( I used to service automatic pinsetters so I know the costs involved ) I reasoned that the cost of maintenance and repair of the machines would raise the cost of bowling to a point that those who patronize the place could no longer afford to bowl there and the place would go out of business. In situations like this, it is better to have a bowling center with pinboys ( instead of machines ) than no bowling center at all.
I would think similar reasoning would apply to the situation you saw with the manual sorting of mail in the post office there. Labor is less expensive than automation in that particular case.
And as Bob New York notes in his comment oo, this may not be the worst way for PhilPost to do business. Yes, we have tons of very impressive (and expensive) machinery to sort the US mail. But then again, the volume of mail here is so small, and the cost of labor is so much less, that the old mahogany sorting cases may not be such a bad idea … for the Philippines that is. When literally millions of people don't get even two meals a day, let alone three, it is kind of hard to justify investing billions in machines to sort letters.
I just looked at the prices in dollar terms … letter (credit card bill) I got from BDO cost about 8.5 US cents for postage … it would have been 42 cents in the US. With today's unemployment figures a lot of Americans might be calculating the value of a lot of manual sorting bins and a couple hundred thousand government jobs 😉 Especially if the mahogany bin process also slashed postal costs to one fifth or so. The Philippines may be much smarter on this than we think … how much 'paper mail' will there be in 15 or 20 years?
I really need to do a whole post with the applicable numbers here … it's my contention paper mail is really much more 'dead' than many traditional postal organizations are willing to adit.
Like the oft-quoted criticism of generals always planning for the last war, the USPS in particular missed out on a huge possibility … they should be the email/electronic transmission leader of the world, instead of investing in more and more expensive equipment to move dead trees from place to place.
Yep, for those who live within 'range' of a post office that still rents out post boxes this can be a good solution. In general I think even ordinary mail pretty much stays in the bags it is shipped in until it reaches the sorting rooms that John so artfully wrote about. But living near a post office with rental boxes, now that's the rub for many. Something else for thos who are planning to live out in the provinces to consider.
Good advice. I probably should 'lie in wait' for my local guy and apply the same tactics. I know the ladies who work at the post office whom I met when I got my big package from Australia couldn't have been nicer … likely my carrier is a nice guy too … no telling what log jams get broken when we get off the 'us versus them' pedestal which I seem to be on with this article.
Wow, the comments haven't stopped coming in yet and US postage rates have already gone up … 44 cents for first class now. Told you you should have mailed your Mother's Day cards early 😉
Opposite to the Philippines, the cost of labor and benefits such as health insurance and retirement plans makes it cost effective to spend millions or more on automation equipment in the USA for agencies like the US Postal Service and as you mentioned also the amount of mail being handled on a day to day basis. I would imagine however there would be some facilities of Philpost that do have at least some automation.
Hello Dave I live in a rural are and did not have mail service to address until about 8 years ago. So I had PO box. Now I live in a very tiny town, but when I started seeing the mail carrier daily I decided to put a mail box in. I never got mail even though I put in address changes. But because small everyone know everyone area my mail get get to my PO Box. I finally asked after about 6 months and found that I did not live in Finley but Lakeport. Because small post office and they did not deliver from there. New zip code and all, now I get my mail here. Make sure you are in right town. haha
on the bright side Dave look at the trees you are saving by not getting the weekly fliers and massive amount of junk mail 🙂
Indeed, Tommy, that is a blessing. I haven't always made it clear, but as a military retiree, though the courtesy of the State Department and a lot of hardworking volunteer retirees here in the Philippines, I also have a 'real' US mail address. But becuase of military and State Department restrictions only true first class mail can be sent .. the rest is tossed away as a service to me in Tokyo, where my mail enters the US State dept/DoD system. What a blessing indeed. It's only been three years, I can well remember the handfuls of absolutely useless mail offers I used to get in the States that I no don't have to deal with.
Funny your comment coming in when it did, I'm working on another article that covers mail as we speak … one "can't" factor a great many still in the US use as a reason they can't move here is mail …but to a great extent, it's a bogus reason. So much of that trash that's in US mailboxes today is not needed .. before I left Colorado, for example, all my monthly bills like water, sewer, electric and such were online, all credit cards, bank statements etc., and I paid everything every month with a couple keystrokes on my bank's site. My 1099R's are all online now and I file my taxes in 15 or 20 minutes online every year, and the refund goes direct to my savings account in 3 or 4 days … since I have bene here in the Philippines, Social security and the Veteran's Administration have opened online benefit application as well … aside from my Philippine bills, what do I r4eally need mail for at all?
ha ha Andy, that made me laugh. Not about mail so much as there are people who don't even know what town they buy houses in, based on my expereince. Years ago I lived in a small town (a lot bigger ow) called Pequannock, New Jersey. Not many people even can spell it, but Eric Jeter can, he grew up there. (yet another famous Jersean ;-)) There's an area of that town called Pompton Plains which has never been a politcal subdivision of any sort, but has had a post office and a Zip Code for years .. the posy office assigns zip codes based on where people live, not on town or country lines.
My dad worked in the tax assessor's office for years. Needless to say he had plenty 'disgruntled' clients, I mean who really likes their property taxes.
But one day he came home with a bemused smile rather thahn a frown. Seems an enraged property owner had come in to the tax office with a bill and a summons to haul my dad into court for fraud becuase my dad had sent this property owner a tax bill from Pequannock when the property owned lived in Pompton Plains … and a whole lot off harsh words and legalese went along with the summons.
"Uh, sir, sorry, but you _do_ live in Pequannock and we are your legal taxing authority, Pompton Plains is like a subdivision name, it's not a municipality. I hope your lawyer didn't charge you too much for all this paper, because he really doesn't seem to know the law very well."
Remeber Gilda Radner's famous line from her skits on Saturday Night Live? "Never mind" LoL
I have a wonderfu business selling antiquarian books. I am toying with the idea of relocating to the Philippines. Over the last eighteen months or so I have started to sell some books online. Recesion and everything else included it turned out to be very profitable.
The only problem with doing this in the Philippines is the postal system and Fedex is expensive.
Any thoughts
Hi Joe, thanks for the comment and for a really interesting question. Even for businesses that involve physical products, like books, the Internet is still very muchthe wave of the future.
But running a business like yours internationally involves special challenges, that is for sure.
PhilPost is a signator to the international express mail corporation (consortium) contract that links more than 50 country's overseas mail services and imposes standards on them. http://www.philpost.gov.ph/product-services/inter…
I have only had a few packages sent to me internationally, and all of them have been trouble free (the times the PhilPost mailman _)did_ visit my home before the latest burst of domestic mail activity.
Another thing Ijust found is that PhilPost and USPS can now exchange Postal Money orders (many people just aren't attuned to paying for somehting ikea book via PayPal or some other onlines service.
The IEMS (International Express Mail Service) works well from all accounts I have heard … but from a practical standpoint, everything in the Philippines 'depends' … mainly on where you are living. If you chose to live in a major city, the mail service is likely to be a lot like the USA. If you live in a remote provincial area, all bets are likely off.
The IEMS is certainly cheaper than FedEx, but it will certainly run costs up much hirre thna domestic US postal costs, especially considering the USPS special book rates.
The US and the Philippines now also exchange postal money orders, which would be an importnat business enabler as well.
Aside from that I am not sure how I'd try to internationalize a business like yours though. If there's some way to have a base of operations in the US, so that every book you buy and sell doesn't have to cross the ocean two ways, of course it would be a lot easier. But I do see that it is not impossible to run it very similarly to how you would do it in the US, albeit at a slower and more costly rate.
Hi,
May I know where you bought your mailbox? Funny to say, but all mailboxes I've seen here in the Phils are built in their gates. ANd I do mean the traditional ugly ones 🙁
Mind sharing where you got one (at a reasonable price, hopefully). Thanks.