The Philippines is a very formal society, somewhat of a throwback to the way it was 50 or 100 years ago in the USA and much of the Western World. During the past decades, much of the world has become much more casual, yet the Philippines often seems to be stuck in the past in this respect.
Over the years that I have lived here in the Philippines, I have gotten used to the formality here, although it sometimes still makes me uncomfortable to some extent. In last week’s Podcast, Dave Starr and I mentioned this to some extent. When it comes to names, as a foreigner you will always be called “Sir” or “Mr.” Even if your first name is used, you will be “Sir Steve” or “Mr. Jerry.” There was a time when I would always tell people to just call me Bob, not Mr. Bob or Sir Bob. They would say “OK Sir” and just continue to address me in such a formal style. In recent years, I have simply decided to let them call me what they are comfortable with. If I am particularly close to an individual, I will invite them to call me “Bob” instead of the more formal name, and then I just accept what they choose to call me. If they accept the invitation that I have extended, I am very happy that they did. If they continue to call me in a formal way, I just accept it, though. It is what they are comfortable with, so if they are my friend, why would I want to make them feel uncomfortable?
This lesson in formality came back to me this past week when I was working on a little business project. Because of the websites that I operate (this one, Mindanao.com and others) I get a lot of requests from people for information on Hotels. People are always asking me to make a recommendation of what hotel they should choose to stay at. Because I do this so much (sometimes a half dozen people ask me this per day), I decided that I really need to work out a deal with the hotels that I recommend where they will pay me a commission for the referrals that I send their way. It won’t cost the guests anything extra, the hotel would just pay me a percentage, just like they do to a travel agent. I had one of my employees call about a dozen different hotels in Davao. She told the hotel people that we are already sending them dozens of guests every month, and we just want to formalize the relationship in some way, and to be paid commission for our referral. Each and every one of the hotels responded that they indeed were happy that we are sending guests to them, but we need to submit a formal proposal in writing for them to consider such an arrangement! In the States, you could just make the arrangement over the telephone and go on with business! It won’t happen that way here, though. I feel confident that I will be able to reach an agreement with the hotels in question, but it’s not just a matter of a phone call, I will have to go through a more formal process, write some letters, sit down for some meetings and such. I’m OK with that, it’s just a very formal way to do business for me!
So as I said in the title of this column and in the introduction, I am a rather casual person, as I think most Americans and other Westerners are. We have actually grown up that way, as our societies have swung to a more casual approach to life. I often find it funny, or uncomfortable when I am presented with such formality as I see here.
I’m getting used to it, though…
Hi Bob – Don't forget to "dress for success" when you go for any meetings. A barong & slacks will do much more than get you in the door! 😉
Personally, I don't mind a return to the civility of the 50s. Courtesy, good manners, respect for others, etc. were always returned a hundred fold. (And it felt pretty good, too!) 🙂
Hi Paul – Yes, there is some truth to that too.
Bob I cannot count how many times I have noticed with some amusement how everything must be 'documented' from a simple transaction on upwards. Any business arrangement no matter how simple must be keenly documented. I often wonder how they get anything done since virtually nothing is done on the fly. Good luck …I'm sure you will get the arrangement…with a bit of luck before the new year !!
Hi brian – Yeah, I see that kind of thing all the time. Heck, if you go to mall and buy something for P20, they have all kinds of papers to fill out! How inefficient is that? 😆
Good day SIR Bob . I enjoy the formal way it normally means there are standards in postion.
Hi Frank – 😆
Hi Bob- I take your point on formality but its also about control.
Most people will not agree to anything unless its in writing and sanctioned by the boss particularlly when money is involved. Thats more like the reason why agreements are not made over the phone as such agreements can be denied at a later date by either party. Always better to have it down in black and white signed and dated and witnessed then you really do have control over the situation "Sir".
Hi Bob: It's interesting that you point this out. I had no idea that Westerners, in general, are less formal in doing business! Part of this formality thing, I think, boils down to another trait most of us Filipinos have: that is, we keep changing our minds. Unless we're bound by paperwork, or "minutes from a meeting," then there is always that likelihood of taking back what was discussed, say, over the phone.
Oh. Should I call you "Sir," too? 😉
Hello Bob: I'm surprised for someone who does a lot of business, documenting things is not a norm for you? Especially so when money is involved. It is for the protection of both parties. Anyone can be vulnerable to fraud and the likes nowadays and there's nothing like a signed document to protect you that will hold in court. I guess my long years as a banker taught me that. A phone conversation or the old fashion handshake doesn't give you any guarantees anymore in these days and age. Even here in North America, you sign for everything nowadays, too.
It's a crazy world out there. I know what you mean – just make things simple and be honest. Unfortunately, gone are those days.
Thanks for such interesting topics though, Sir Bob 😉
Hi jim – Yes, I understand what you are saying. I guess that I would not expect to make an agreement with a hotel without getting it in writing, but to even need to put the request in writing goes a bit far, IMHO. I would expect more of a response to a phone call like – "Oh, sure let us send you our travel agent's agreement for your signature." If you know what I mean.
Hi Migs – Everything is less formal in the West, I'd say. That can be good or bad, depending on the situation, in my opinion.
Hi Veechee – I document things, why would you think that I don't? All I am saying is that instead of having to put a request in writing, that can all be handled personally or over the phone, and the final agreement can be in writing. It's just a difference in style, I guess.
I'm glad that you find the topics here interesting Veechee.
Hi Bob,
As a Filipino in the US, I am faced with the opposite problem. To illustrate, I was writing an email to someone in my company that I didn't know. And I addressed him as 'sir'. My teammate said it's ok to address him by his first name.
I almost fainted on the prospect of having to address someone I don't know by their first name (I didn't faint–that's a metaphor just to emphasize my point). Also, it took me a long time to call my immediate superior by his first name. I would call him Sir–ALWAYS. And after the 'email incident', I tried to call everyone by their first name, but I would always grit my teeth.
Believe me, it's so hard to do! Took me months to be comfortable with it. These days, I address almost everyone by their first name.
Calling someone sir or ma'am is a sign of respect. The same way we have words for our elderly siblings. A lot of Filipinos find it difficult to just say someone's first name, because if we're not very close, it's a sign of disrespect.
Hi //ChrisC – I certainly understand what you are saying, because it mirrors my experience, just the opposite. Being called "Sir" all the time, or "Mr. Bob" took a lot of getting used to, and I still prefer being called just "Bob" but I understand that to make the others feel comfortable, I just let them call me what they like to call me.
It's an interesting experience, don't you think? 😀
Bob, one byproduct of the formality you mention seemed a few years ago to be that in any government office one attended, there were always legions of clerks each sitting at their own desk, some with a typewriter and most not appearing to do much except twiddle their thumbs and talk to their 'officemates.' Have things changed in this regard? I like the formality to some extent, but I notice when I go into Department stores like Robinson's Place in Ermita that I am immediately the centre of attention from shop assistants, presumably because they assume I am rich. They don't give the same level of attention to most Pinoys, I suspect.
Hi Bob- I can fully understand how ChrisC felt having to use the familure expression when used to the formal method of address.
Its my opinion that over the years people in general have tended to use the familure method of address as a way out of facing a regulatory way of life. An example of this is to address a superior being their subordinate by there first name as happens today. Familuarity breeds contempt and that is what we have achieved with our lax use of the formal title. It means that personal achievment either through education, profession or what other human endevours is neither recognised or rewarded. In my boy hood people like the School Master were called Sir my teachers were called Miss the lawyer the minister t were called Mr and the doctor was Dr. My neighbours were called Mr ? and Mrs ? even to this day when I go back to Scotland to visit my brother and there are still some neighbours whom I meet I always call them Mr or Mrs even although I know their sons and daughters and am over 60 years of age.
I don't think respect should ever go out of the window in fact I would make it compulsory to get this planet back on track.
We have been detracting from your original post Bob sorry for that but formality is not all about being delivered orally its about being done correctly and leagally and in the case of the people in the hotel they were after all only doing their job as requested.
Hi Jim – I understand what you are saying. Let me just clarify something – I was not saying that the Hotel employees were doing anything wrong, or a bad job. Of course, they were following what they were told to do, and the local custom too. I was just making an observation that this country is more formal than where I came from.
Hi Bob- Where I was coming from is, there in my opinion is at times not enough formality when we conduct business.When we do something as individuals then a hand shake should suffice I have no problem with that. However when others are involved and handshakes and verbal agreements can be denied then its better to be safe than sorry.I have been CEO of a company here in the UK for 17 years and I have been in both informal and formal agreements but believe me its better to have the hassle of formality if you want to look after your longer term interests. The thread of this blog has been really about informality (casualness) and the ultimate sloppyness that it "can" bring about and its therefor only an opinion of where we have come from and where we may be going. As I said before I believe familuarity breeds contempt in the long term.
Hi Jim – Yeah, I understand your point.
Hi Ted – Sorry, I missed your comment there. Things are still exactly as you describe at government offices. A lot of people sitting around (not) working. 😆
Bob,
Once you have made SIR status you are a qualified expat. Ha-ha but, I prefer my Kuya status. Kuya Mike sounds so much better then Sir Mike.
Regards,
Mike K.
P.S.
I was home in Bohol Friday and Saturday. We finally found out we are having a baby girl… The wife is very excited now.
Hi Mike – CONGRATULATIONS on the coming birth of a daughter! I wish you and your wife all the best!