In many ways, the society of the Philippines is quite formal, and if you want to blend in and really be accepted by Filipinos, it is best for you to pick up on some of the more formal habits of Filipinos. Don’t take me wrong, Filipinos don’t expect you, as a foreigner, to totally become Filipino in the way you think and act, but the more you can adopt cultural norms here, the more accepted you will be. Filipinos know that the ways of foreigners are different than Filipino ways, and they understand that. Sometimes, I have no doubt that they look at our ways and think we are a little strange, but heck, we do the same, so it’s only fair!
The thing I was thinking about today, which I think we should talk about a bit is names, and how you should address people. You know, where I come from, back in the USA, the norms of society have become very relaxed and casual. In most cases, we address each other by first name. In most of the places where I worked while still living in the USA, we even addressed our bosses by their first name. Our boss, “Jim Smith” would just be “Jim” if we were talking. I remember the day when you would always call your boss “Mr. Smith,” but I feel that those days are gone, for the most part. If you are addressing a very high ranking executive you may use the term “Mr.” but even that is not always necessary.
Here in the Philippines it is different. People on different levels of the hierarchy rarely (if ever) call each other by first name. Even “Mr.” would be considered casual at times. Your superior would usually be called “Sir.” For instance, most of my employees call me “Sir Bob.” Even people whom I consider to be good friends call me “Sir Bob” in many instances, especially if they are younger than I am. Feyma is regularly addressed as “Ma’am” or “Madam” by employees and younger people.
For almost any kind of professional type job, the job title is usually affixed to the name. For instance, if Jorge is a lawyer, you would address him at “Attorney Jorje.” I have even seen friends address each other with titles like this. Even if they are out playing golf or something casual like that, the title will be affixed to the name. It’s a sign of respect for the education that they had to achieve in order to enter the profession that they work in.
School teachers are called “Teacher Susan,” of course, you should insert whatever the name is, but put “Teacher” in front of it. If a guy is a graduate of Engineering, he is “Engineer Roel” or whatever his first name is. To just call him “Roel” would be considered somewhat insulting!
For me, this is all too formal, and often makes me feel uncomfortable. Since I’ve been living here for so long, I have become used to it, although I still prefer a little less formality. As I said earlier, I have people that are not business associates, but rather personal friends who call me “Sir Bob,” and that makes me somewhat uncomfortable. It used to make me very uncomfortable. Honestly, though, I think I’d now be a little uncomfortable if they didn’t add the “Sir.” I guess I am somewhere in the middle of accepting it and still fighting it a bit, so I am a little uncomfortable either way! I guess that for those who start out calling me “Bob” when they first meet me, I am very comfortable with that, it would be uncomfortable if they changed and started adding the Sir. And the opposite is also true.
What do you think? Do western countries need to get a little more formal? Does the Philippines need to get a little more casual? I’d like to hear your opinion.
Hi Bob, this is an interesting article to talk about. You know Filipinos always put a gap between the more educated and the less or uneducated, the rich and the poor, the employer and the worker, the teacher and the student and so forth and we consider this as a form of respect over the more superior in status. I don’t think that we need to change in addressing each other because it is what we are accustomed to. If you are not comfortable by how people address you, simply tell them so and i’m pretty sure it’s not a big deal.
The Philippines is fine the way it is, don't change. I haven't really seen the job title name you mention (Engineer roel) but whenever I meet someone older I always address as sir and maa'm it's just courtesy. The other titles you missed were "Kuya" and "Ate". They really appreciate it if you use these titles. And of course, a whole blog could be devoted to the Mano Po.
It's not the word somebody does or does not use that matters so much. What matters is what's in their heart when they use it. Coming from the US, i've run into this discussion a few times.
Hi Louis – I purposefully did not get into the "kuya," "ate" thing. I consider that a whole different topic.
Hi Arto – I agree with you. It's common to see people who have no respect for a person to address them with a respectful title. That is meaningless to me. It's more important to be genuine, in my opinion.
He simplepinai – Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Actually, in my experience, I find that your comment about just telling people how to address you is not correct. That is in my experience, others may vary. The times when I've told people "Please, you don't have to call me Sir, just call me Bob." I have been invariably told "Oh, sir, I could never do that, I am not comfortable calling you Bob." or something along those lines. No biggie, that is just what I've always found.
Yes, this is an important thing to understand over here. You have described it very well! People also shorten the titles when they are on very familiar terms (Doc, 'Tourny, Gineer) but the title does not go away. I still don't always understand how people detirmine what to call different people. A friend of mine, who is a doctor, calls a woman from her church who is a little younger than her, 'Ma'am.' All I know is that as a very casual gal from California, I need to err on the side of respectful. I should call my friend 'doc' or 'doctora' until she tells me to call her by her first name.
On the other hand, I also was very uncomfortable being called 'Ma'am.' But I soon realized that people who call me that are being properly respectful, and for me to insist that they call me by my first name (or even Ate) is to insist that they violate their own sense for what is right and proper, making them feel very uncomfortable and ill at ease. Requiring someone to be more casual with them that is appropriate may also open the door for false expectations in the relationship.
Hi AmericanLola – Thanks for your great words of common sense! I'm like you, I do try to err on the side of being respectful. I am not too uncomfortable being called "sir" anymore, I guess I'm kind of getting used to it. But, as I said in the article, I'm kind of in the middle grounds at this stage!
Good Day all:
Personally I do like the social structure of the Philippines. To me it is much easier to deal with and understand what your expected roles in life are. Here in the USA where things have become so blurred by being casual and in my opinion a common lack of respect it is often harder to know how you should handle a given situation. Just a small example. When I was beginning to date a couple of years after my divorce from an American woman I often would be chastised by the women if I would open doors for them, hold out a seat for them, hold their coat for them to put on or to help them take it off. I was regularly sharply admonished and told they could do those things for themselves. After I was introduced to my present wife I found it very refreshing that she very much enjoyed me doing those things for her.
In addition to that I have found that once again here in the USA that many of the young people especially if they do not know someone have a distinct lack of respect for other people, property and rights. I have been blatantly told that I have to earn their respect. To which I have responded. You got it backwards kid. I have accomplished, X,Y, & Z in my life to earn other people respect, & then ask them what they have done to earn others respect. To which there is rarely an answer.
In addition I must point out that in the RP I have been a victim of a lack of respect also I believe, I could be wrong though. As people that do not know me just walk up or shout to me from a distance and address me as hey Joe or just Joe with no real politeness about it. However that has been more the exception than the norm. I won't even get into things like addressing my wifes parents as Mama & Papa or placing their hands to ones forehead. A sign of respect that I think is kinda a neat custom.
Hi Wayne – I agree with most of what you are saying, and I understand it. My only argument with you on this would be when you say "understand your expected roles in life…" For me, it makes it feel like a caste system. If you are poor, you are expected to remain poor. If you are lower on the totem pole than "Attorney Richard" then you can never surpass him. I guess it's part of American culture to be able to break the caste, move on, re-create your role in life and improve your caste. I don't think that you really meant it like that, but when I read it that is what comes to my mind. In many ways, I feel that Philippine Society puts roadblocks up to try to "keep people in their place," if you know what I mean. That is one respect where I feel that American culture is better. There are areas where I consider Philippine culture to be superior, too, though.
Hi Bob,
Respect for elders or authority is ingrained in the Philippine cultural tradition. This is manifested in the use of polite language, especially the Tagalogs who use the words "po" or "ho" when talking to someone older or in authority. I cannot think of an English translation for these words except maybe "sir" or "ma'am". Furthermore, the Tagalogs use the words "Mang" for Mr. and "Aling" for Mrs. This is where, I believe, "Sir Bob" and "Ma'am Feyma" would have stemmed from. It is just the English translation of Mang Bob and Aling Feyma.
I used to manage a business in the Philippines when I was much younger and it made me quite uncomfortable being addressed as "Ma'am Tina" by workers who were much older than I was, some even as old as my father. I knew, though, that asking them to stop doing so would be a violation of their sense of propriety, so I just "went with the flow", so to speak.
In the US, I happened to work with 2 older Filipino (Tagalog) gentlemen who were about twice my age and I didn't feel right calling them by their first names alone so I proceeded to call them "Mang Eddie" and "Mang Romy". I think they found this amusing coz they started calling me "Aling Tina". This became an inside joke for the 3 of us. 😉
Hi Bob, There was an article a few years back in one of the weekly magazines (time or newsweek) about Filipino teachers trying to adapt to teaching in the States. In the Philippines, they are in a stronger position of authority (growing up, we called our teachers "Sir" or "Ma'am") compared to teaching in the US classes. I can understand that they feel that they lose a bit of authority when their students call them by first name. It's just not what we are used to in the Philippines.
When I first moved to the US, I was a little uncomfortable addressing my manager with their first name. But I got over that after a while.
On the flip side, I have always been uncomfortable being addressed as "Sir Macky" in our family's business. You see, we have long time employees who have addressed me with "sir" since I was a young boy. Like you, I feel awkward telling them to just call me "Macky" because I know that they'd rather not. I do not work there, but being the owner's son seem to merit that title. There are however some who simply call me by name. I seem toact more like myself with them. There are others who are close to my age that I feel comfortable enough to tell them that I prefer that I am not "knighted."
There are merits to both systems. I don't mind the setup in the Philippines. Though sometimes the titles aren't lost even when jobs are promoted or moves to different companies. That's when the culture of indebtness comes in. Strings are pulled when you know someone in a department that "used to work for you." I know ex-employees who last worked for us in the 80's and still use "sir/ma'am" when addressing my family.
Aling Tina (or should I call you Ate Tina?) – I didn't know about the term "Aling" but I have heard of "Mang" before. I guess here in Mindanao, the equivalent would be "Manong" or "Manang?" Would that be correct? I agree, it's best to just "go with the flow," and let people kind of decide on their own what they are comfortable calling you. When I've tried to ask people to call me just "Bob" that has not gone well. There is one person I know who is a friend. I knew him for some time over the Internet before meeting in person. He is about 15 years younger than I am. When we first met, he called me "Bob," which I found refreshing. After he hung out with me for a while and saw others calling me "Sir Bob" he changed and started adding the "Sir" before my name. I was disappointed, but have never said anything to him about it.
Hi Macky – Ah… very interesting approaching it from the other side of the fence! I had not considered the feelings of a Filipino moving to the States and going from a state of Formality into a culture of casualness! That, my friend is an interesting thought! To those Filipino teachers that you mentioned, being called by their first name itself was a sign of disrespect! Yet, to the kids there was nothing disrespectful about it!
You know, a girl who worked for me for over 7 years recently moved to the USA. When I hired her, she was a school girl. By the time she left, she was a mature woman that had become somewhat "worldly" after working for me over such a long period. She always called me "Sir Bob." Last week, I called her on the phone just to chat and see how she is doing in the USA. She still called me "Sir Bob." It made me wonder how long she would go before she would drop the "Sir" part and just call me "Bob." I will be watching and waiting to see how long it takes her to really become "American." 🙂
Hi Bob you can write one artickle for new foreigners coming and
stay in philippines how to communicate with philippino relatives (relativ) of our wife witout problem for relatives. Last years
many relatives of my call me to visit them because have
birth day in their houses im careful because i don't know
the custom of them.
You know Bob, when we first met I can't remember if I called you "sir" or "Bob". LOL
Hi Zois – I'll see about writing a piece like that. It will probably be next week.
Hi Louis – After tomorrow you'll have to start calling me Dad! 😉
Hi Bob:
Your point is well taken, and you are correct in that I did not mean it that way. Also I did not realize that. You live there full time and I have only visited. You know the culture WAY better than I do & that is why I read your blog. I do know that there are other cultures that have the same set of "caste" values. India at one time was like that if not still. However it seems to work for the societies that have it. Perhaps they know something that you and I do not, as I was brought up to believe that all men/people were created equal and that is how I perceive them. So the "caste" system is a foreign way of thinking for me and I do not process information that way.
Hi Wayne – I guess what I meant was that the Philippines has some aspects of a caste system. Society works to keep people in their proper place in many instances. It isn't as formal as what is in India, not nearly so, but I see aspects of it. Great discussion!
Hi Bob,
I have to correct myself. Mr. is "Ginoo" and Mrs. is "Ginang" in Tagalog – more formal than "Mang" and "Aling". I was trying to think of the equivalent in Bisaya but could not come up with any. "Manong" and "Manang" would be more like "Kuya" and "Ate" which are used to address older siblings. In usage, though, you are right – "Mang" would be equivalent to "Manong" and "Aling" to "Manang". Wow! We could start a language class on this!
That's another thing, peer pressure is strong. Filipinos usually go with how others address the person. I don't think your former employee will stop calling you "Sir Bob". Doing so will exhibit a conscious act of disrespect. Like Macky was saying, the title, once bestowed, 😉 doesn't go away.
Honestly, even after living here for 24 years, I am still taken aback when I hear kids address much older people by their first names. Among Filipinos in America, I noticed that the parents teach the kids to address their (parents') friends "Tito" for Uncle or "Tita" for Aunt.
You can take the Filipino out of the Philippines but you can't take the Philippines out of him/her. In this regard, I am on the side of the Filipinos.
Hi Tina – Wow, this is indeed interesting. I still do think that my former employee will change in the long run and just call me "Bob." Feyma, after 10 years in the USA, when she returned here had a hard time reverting to using titles for people. She called many people by first name, and had to switch back.
When we lived in the States (and here too), our kids would call our friends as "Uncle" and "Aunt."
The change of kids in the USA calling people by their first name has happened within my lifetime. I remember when I was a kid, older people of our parent's generation were always "Mr. and Mrs." No exceptions on that! Nowadays, Mr. or Mrs. would be the exception!
Hi Bob,
That's interesting! I wonder how that happened? I would be very interested to find out… Any ideas out there???
Hi Bob:
All the familiarity came during the feminist attempts to thrust their agenda down everyones throat. They wanted to do away with other cultural norms and I believe that this is one of the byproducts. Along with the cultural neutering of the white male. Just look at any of television shows depicting white heads of families. They used to be depicted on TV as they really were in society, strong, competent, caring fathers. For the last 20 years you have seen the white male head of family be depicted as a bumbling incompetent fool that did not know what was going on in the family and only cared about himself. So if that can be brought about by the lowing of cultural norms so can general lack of respect for traditions, people, peoples rights & properties. These occurrences and the advancement of the feminist agenda beyond being equals is not just a coincidence, and anyone that can not see at least a slight connection just might be looking at the world with rose colored glasses.
Hi Tina – you mean about the changes happening within my lifetime? I am not really sure why it happened. But, I have been very aware of it for years. Wayne brings up that it's related to Feminism. I can't really say I agree, but it's something I have never considered before and would need to think about for a while before I could make my own judgment. I do find it interesting and would be quite interested in hearing theories from anybody who wants to share.
Hi Wayne – you do have an interesting theory there. As I told Tina, I can't say I agree with you, but I need to think about what you are saying before I could decide. I will give you this, the feminist movement over the last 40 years or so, has certainly made many changes in American society, no doubt about that!
Hello! I think our use of tiltles and respectful "names" to address another is great. I always call my superiors ma'am or sir. I even call people on the mall or streets the same way when im talking them.
Many Filipinos put premium on the title bestowed on them or the "name you address them. Havent you noticed that when you call them Sir or ma'am they suddenly become more attentive and look more authoritative. Most times they will entertain your queriesa and address yor concern immediately when you call them by their tittles or address them ma'am or sir.
In my line of work (lawyering), people call us all kinds of stuff. Since our clients at the office are indigents many dont know what to address us. And its hilarious but you would really appreciate their effort to properly address us. Sometimes im called Atty.(A-TI), sometimes DOC ( for reasons i dont know why), sometimes TITA, sometimes MIGA ( friend),sometimes DAY,( short for Inday),etc…I really dont mind what they call me for as long as i know and can see the manner they address me reflects respect and courtesy. I think we filipinos are really courteous. To be called ma'am or sir all you have to do is step inside a fastfood restaurant. I think we are the only country where the crew of mcdonald's call their customers ma'am or sir from the time they enter the store until the time the leave, I think this is way cool.
Hi Bob:
Yes they have made changes. Some are good and others are NOT.
Hi Bob,
I just thought of something. I think the Hippie Generation had something to do with this cultural change. I know someone who is a self-proclaimed hippie and he has his children call him by his first name! Totally unheard of in the Philippines!
Honestly, I love it when my nephews and nieces call me Tita, more so when they say it so sweetly in order to get a favor from me. Dong and Day, Ne, Neng are terms of endearment even for strangers. I can't imagine the Fil folks' reaction if a young child will call them "Hey!" or worst, addressing aunts and uncles by first name basis. In my time, perhaps we'd get a pinch on the thigh for this or a chili on our lips! ( In Bisaya, masilihan ang wa-it!) We're not knight-ing anyone when addressing them Sir/Maam. We're just trying to be polite, a thing we learned from our family and school in the subject we called GM&RC. Thank you, Sir Bob for this post !
Hi everyone I love it in Phils when Gina's freinds call me Manong Peter, and ladies in the airlines or travel lounges, or restaraunts, call me sir, the reason why I love it so much, because it seems to be something we have lost, when i visit my customers, they are normally older than me, but I love to be formal with them, I would call my male customers sir at all times, and female Madam at all times, it keeps the situation professional and polite, I love it when young ladies in short mini skirts call me sir, and my wife is called Maam, its common courtesy, I notice it also in the United States, politeness is ever present there also, that is in my experience, but in my own country, I am sorry to say, in some supermarkets, it has gone, in fact, in one supermarket, the young girls call me Mate!, a common term for freind, I dont like it, so being in the Philippines one always feels as though one is being respected, so as Louis said at the beginning of this thread, please dont change, we love you just the way you are !
Hi Sophia – Thanks for your input. I agree with most all of what you said, except one thing. When I go into a fast food place and every employee in the place stops and shouts out "Hello Sir, thank you for coming" or something along those lines, I feel that it isn't very genuine. It's just what they were told to say by the boss. Not really a gripe, just an observation.
Hi Wayne – Indeed they have! And… indeed they are!
Hi Tina – Hmm… could be!
Hi Jul – Ha ha… I got a laugh about the chili on the lips! Feyma is always threatening the kids with that! It straightens them out right away!
Hi Pete – mmm… I mean Manong Peter. What is it about those ladies in the short skirts calling you sir? I want to hear more about that! So, you are saying that the USA is more courteous than the UK? That shocks me.
cultual mores adjust to a level commensurate with the locals. The spanish got the locals to a high level of formaity. Maybe in another 1000 yeers, they'll become more casual.
Bob,
Quote:
I will be watching and waiting to see how long it takes her to really become “American.”
– Bob, that's not going to happen; for your former employee to call you by first name. It's just cultural. I am just like her, though it's almost 8 yrs i've been living here in the US, everytime I see my former boss/manager in Gensan, who actually no longer work in the company, I still call her Ma'am. She insisted for me not to call her that way but I'm just used to it.
And just like Macky, my first job here, it's very uncomfortable to call my bosses in their first names, but I just got over it, it didn't take me long because everybody is doing the same thing. I guess, when you're in Rome, do what the Romans do.
However, for my Filipino American (mostly born in the Phils) friends and acquaintances whose at least 10-15 yrs. older than me, I do call them Ate or Kuya, and they don't mind because they know it's cultural and they do the same thing. I tried to train my son to do the same for FilAm folks here. For our close friends, I taught him to call them Auntie or Uncle; and Ate or Kuya. Even with the exchange students we hosted, he called them Ate.
And hopefully, when I meet you and your wife in the future, I will call you Bob and for your wife, I was planning to call her Ate Feyma, but since she's she only 7 yrs. older than me, I may drop the "Ate". We'll see… 🙂
Hi Jesus – we'll see.
Hi Lea – I didn't really explain my relationship with this young lady. You see, in addition to being her boss, I have also been like a Dad to her. Her family is from General Santos, we are in Davao, and she called our family as her second family. She may pick up a different term than "Sir" we'll have to see.
Yes, whenever you are in Davao, we'll look forward to meeting you, Lea!
Hi Bob,
I found this post very interesting. Over the course of more than 50 years I've witnessed the rise of informality in the USA and quite frankly I find the neo-familiarity irritating at times. During recent years all too often when renting a Blockbuster video the 16 year old account clerk looked at my driver's license and called me by my first name. I remember once receiving a phone call from two sales people who wanted to sell my company a new 25+K phone system and they referred to each other in a conference call as Mister while addressing me by my first name. I had enough of it and directly informed them that I thought they were rude and I'd never do business with them.
This deterioration of respectability in the USA is but one reason why so many foreigners choose the Philippines to call their home. I find the people in the Philippines to be the warmest folks on earth —and I've traveled to many countries around the world. The warmth and politeness of the people here in the Philippines is but one small factor in what makes the people so great here. One always feels welcomed wherever you travel in this country and I can't think of any country where the welcome mat is as open as it is here. One of my most cherished pastimes is just getting out and interacting with Filipinos. Conversations are always so warm and inspiring!
I'm probably a foreigner anomaly due to the fact that I always address people as Sir or Ma'am. I often get giggles from the sales clerks and waiters when making such references. However, to me, it's an effort to extend the same level of respectability to our hosts, regardless of their position, as they extend to me.
I'm delighted with the attitudes people display here and I think many countries in the world could learn some valuable lessons from our Filipino hosts. Politeness and respectability go a long way in building friendships and lasting relationships.
—ted
Hi Ted – Welcome to the LiP Blog! It's my pleasure to have you visit! Your story about the sales call really is interesting to read. The guys showed respect for each other, but not for you! Not a wise move on their part!
I have also been in places where I have called people "sir or ma'am" and gotten a funny look. I can remember being at the gas station and after the guy filled my tank, I said "Thank you, Sir." I thought he was going to jump out of his pants!
That's not only it. At the earlier period when I just moved here in the US, I was so shocked to hear children calling their parents' friends their first names or older people's first names. To us Filipinos, it's an utter sign of disrespect. But I learned that is how things are in the US and there is really no "form or term of respect " here to be addressed other than the President of the U.S. or the military. Other than that, everyone is called by their first names. But still I wonder why children in the US are taught to regard older people like that—as if "they are their equals/peers." The first time I was employed in the US, I called my boss "Ma'am " but she insisted that I 'd refer or call her name instead which is quite uncomfortable for me but later on got used to it.
Personally, I would like to be called by "terms" in appropriate places or hierachy settings. My children shall call my friends and other people not their names but call them "Mr or Mrs." or Tito or Tita. They shall call their siblings by their term "Ate " or Kuya". My subordinates should call me Ma'am and younger people should call me Tita or Ate. I know that's not possible here in the US , but when I come back to the PHils, that's what I'm going to expect.
Hi Bing – the thing that I really hate is when the kids call their parents by first name! That's going too far!